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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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CGF: Silvester v. Harris - Second Waiting Period Unconstitutional
Edited 12/26/17 - SCOTUS docket page: https://www.supremecourt.gov/search....ic/17-342.html
============ Calguns Foundation Sues California Over Firearms Waiting Period San Carlos, CA (December 23, 2011) – The Calguns Foundation has filed a federal lawsuit against the California Department of Justice and Attorney General Kamala Harris challenging the policy of requiring gun owners to wait at least 10 days before taking possession of an additional firearm. The case is entitled Jeff Silvester et. al. vs. Kamala Harris, et. al. The Calguns Foundation is joined in the lawsuit, filed today at the District of California Federal District Court in Fresno, by the Second Amendment Foundation and three individual plaintiffs. “The State has absolutely no reason to infringe the rights of California gun owners who already possess firearms when they buy another one,” said Jason Davis who is the attorney for the plaintiffs. California currently requires the registration of handguns in California. And, beginning January 2014, it will also require the registration of all newly-purchased rifles and shotguns. Notably, California keeps a current database of all residents who are prohibited by state or federal law from owning or possessing firearms. Individual plaintiffs Jeff Silvester, Michael Poeschl, and Brandon Combs each have firearms registered with the State of California. Mr. Combs and Mr. Silvester also have firearms licenses from the State that constitute ongoing background checks. “In just about every other state in the U.S., I as a law-abiding gun owner could walk in and, after passing an instant national background check, walk out with a firearm to defend myself in my home,” said Michael Poeschl. “What’s really frustrating is that California is one of the very few states that forces gun owners to register all handguns that they buy. If the State’s database saying that I already lawfully own a gun isn’t proof that I don’t need a ‘cooling-off’ period, then what is?” “I have a license to carry a loaded firearm across the State,” noted Jeff Silvester. “It is ridiculous that I have to wait another 10 days to pick up a new firearm when I’m standing there in the gun store lawfully carrying one the whole time.” “As a collector, I submitted to a Live Scan background check and obtained a Certificate of Eligibility to Possess Firearms from the State of California at my own expense,” said Brandon Combs. “In the Internet era, where every California gun dealer has a computer connected directly to the State’s databases, there is no logical reason to force me to wait 10 days and make another trip simply because California doesn’t want to acknowledge the Certificate that it issued to me. I have registered guns, and I have the State telling me that I can possess guns, but for some reason I can’t exercise my constitutionally protected rights for another ten days? That’s insane.” “Laws that infringe on the right to purchase arms have to be more than just merely rational and must directly serve important governmental interests,” added Hoffman. “Here, the law is not just irrational but actually contradictory. We filed this case right before Christmas in the hopes that, by next Christmas, gun owners will not suffer this continuing infringement on their right to acquire firearms.” The complaint is available from http://bit.ly/10daywait ___ The Calguns Foundation (www.calgunsfoundation.org) is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization which serves its members by providing Second Amendment-related education, strategic litigation and the defense of innocent California gun owners from improper or malicious prosecution. The Calguns Foundation seeks to inform government and protect the rights of individuals to acquire, own, and lawfully use firearms in California. Please remember that freedom isn't free and cases like these to recover your rights cost money. Please donate - It's tax deductible! -Gene ===================== Current status, via wildhawker 12-2-2014 Appeal to the 9th Circuit: Quote:
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
Last edited by Librarian; 12-27-2017 at 9:00 PM.. |
#2
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woo hoo
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#3
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Go CGF team go! Beautiful!
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just happy to be here. I like talking about better ways to protect ourselves. Shop at AMAZON to help Calguns Foundation CRPA Life Member. Click here to Join. NRA Member JOIN HERE/ |
#7
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Sweet! Thanks for the birthday present!
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Sweet.
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Life is like having a map with precise directions and exact stops, you find out that your directions and stops change as you progress further down your original map. |
#9
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Calguns and SAF's XMAS gift to all of us!
From the bottom of my heart, thank you. I could not have asked for me.
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#10
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Merry Christmas! Happy Hannukah! Joyous Kwanza! Groovy Solatice!
CGF rocks. The 10 day wait after the first time irks to no end. One trip to parts unknown is fine, the second trip kills too many deals. Thanks guys. |
#12
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Hey!
Document drops on Fridays, especially before holidays, are for things you don't want people to notice.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#14
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I expect you'll hear more about this case from SAF on boxing day too. -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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I wish Brandon had let me know about the lawsuit. I would have been a plaintiff, since I bought one of his ARs, and I already have several guns that I had to wait for.
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Rule #1: Keep your booger hook off the bang-switch! Cruz/West 2016 - You STILL want to call me a racist tea bagger? |
#17
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The first 10 day wait is a harder fight, legally speaking.
But a 10day wait for a guy to buy his N+1th gun and who already has N guns is downright unsupportable for a fundamental right.
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Bill Wiese San Jose, CA CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
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May not be required. CA may just throw in the towel and start using NCIS checks like most other states
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Thats okay- Its time to raise a toast to the Calguns Foundation and spread the pre-Christmas cheer...
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Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat “Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.” Friedrich Nietzsche |
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More seed being sown. I can hardly wait for some crops to come in (Rossow, Scocca, Peruta, Richards, Pena, etc.).
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
#21
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interesting little tidbit:
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27540 No dealer, whether or not acting pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050), shall deliver a firearm to a person, as follows: (a) Within 10 days of the application to purchase, or, after notice by the department pursuant to Section 28220, within 10 days of the submission to the department of any correction to the application, or within 10 days of the submission to the department of any fee required pursuant to Section 28225, whichever is later. (b) Unless unloaded and securely wrapped or unloaded and in a locked container. (c) Unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm presents clear evidence of the person's identity and age to the dealer. (d) Whenever the dealer is notified by the Department of Justice that the person is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm. (e) (1) Commencing April 1, 1994, and until January 1, 2003, no handgun shall be delivered unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm presents to the dealer a basic firearms safety certificate. (2) Commencing January 1, 2003, no handgun shall be delivered unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the handgun presents a handgun safety certificate to the dealer. (f) No handgun shall be delivered whenever the dealer is notified by the Department of Justice that within the preceding 30-day period the purchaser has made another application to purchase a handgun and that the previous application to purchase involved none of the entities specified in subdivision (b) of Section 27535. 27740 Section 27540 does not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of a firearm regulated pursuant to any of the following statutes, if the sale, delivery, or transfer of that firearm is conducted in accordance with the applicable provisions of the statute: (a) Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 18710) of Division 5 of Title 2, relating to destructive devices and explosives. (b) Section 24410, relating to cane guns, and the exemptions in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Title 2, as they relate to cane guns. (c) Section 24510, relating to firearms that are not immediately recognizable as firearms, and the exemptions in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Title 2, as they relate to firearms that are not immediately recognizable as firearms. (d) Sections 24610 and 24680, relating to undetectable firearms, and the exemptions in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Title 2, as they relate to undetectable firearms. (e) Section 24710, relating to wallet guns, and the exemptions in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Title 2, as they relate to wallet guns. (f) Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 30500) of Division 10, relating to assault weapons. (g) Section 31500, relating to unconventional pistols, and the exemptions in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Title 2, as they relate to unconventional pistols. (h) Sections 33215 to 33225, inclusive, relating to short-barreled rifles and short-barreled shotguns, and the exemptions in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Title 2, as they relate to short-barreled rifles and short-barreled shotguns. and the old code, as far as I can tell, 12078(o) Section 12071 and subdivisions (c),(d), and paragraph (1) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the delivery, sale, or transfer of firearms regulated pursuant to Section 12020, Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 12200), or Chapter 2.3 (commencing with Section 12275), if the delivery, sale, or transfer is conducted in accordance with the applicable provisions of Section 12020, Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 12200), or Chapter 2.3 (commencing with Section 12275). that could make getting a "shotgun-based" AOW a one-stop trip instead of a 2-3 stop deal.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
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Anyways. It's still great news. Merry Christmas to me, Merry Christmas to me! Sometimes I think Gene, Bill, Jason, Brandon and CGF in general are just one big multi-part jolly Santa
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Please read the Calguns Wiki Quote:
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LOL - Brilliant!!! We hold these truths to be self-evident. I just wish to god politicians would take their heads out of their lower intestinal tract and see common sense.
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"personal security, personal liberty, and private property"--could not be maintained solely by law, for "in vain would these rights be declared, ascertained, and protected by the dead letter of the laws, if the constitution had provided no other method to secure their actual enjoyment." - William Blackstone |
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I dunno, it feels just a little like Christmas is two days early. And yeah, I know that final resolution will be a long way down the road.
But what I find most interesting is that (IIRC) this was a relatively low priority. This suggests to me that there has been (or this is) a strategic or tactical shift. |
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So, I see this, but as usual I don't know what it means - "Seventh, the ten-day waiting periods generally do not apply to persons who have an ―assault weapons‖ permit pursuant to Penal Code section 30500, et seq. Penal Code §21740 (exempts from §26815); §27740 (exempts from §27540)."
Does this mean that someone that has a RAW is exempt from the 10 day wait? |
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Happy holidays!
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most of us with RAWs do not have AW permits.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
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So how long until this is delayed pending the Nordyke En Banc?
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Please read the Calguns Wiki Quote:
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#36
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Bravo! This is long overdue.
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Check out our e-commerce site here: www.ebrworks.com Serving you from Prescott, AZ |
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Fantastic guys! CGF moving forward again on improving what little freedom the state of CA attempts to allow.....
Great work!
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"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin, 1755 |
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Holy crap, this is priceless (reading the complaint):
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I'm going to start calling it a 10-day ban now instead of waiting period.
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Please read the Calguns Wiki Quote:
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You bet your sweet bippy!
-Brandon
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Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
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