#1
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Bullpups and DOJ overall length definition...
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This becomes problematic for bull pup owners that thought they were going to go featureless. To do so you would need to pin and weld your muzzle device. This seems like the DOJ is trying to sneak some stuff in that was previously defined otherwise. This appears to give bullpup owners no choice but to register.
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#3
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"Overall length of less than 30 inches"... What does that even mean? Sounds to me that you can go less than 30". If they want a minimum of 30", wouldn't they write, "Overall length of a minimum of 30 inches"?
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#5
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It's confusing as hell. Previously AW was defined as 26" in length, and because of CA SBR laws you can't go underneath that. They always have measured the opposite of what the feds do. Federal law defines that the way to measure is at it's maximum length, i.e. you unfold or make the firearm adjust to it's maximum length. CA DOJ said measure when everything is at it's minimum, meaning folded or collapse,etc.
Maybe we need to ask the question more directly: what does the new language about length mean? Do you have to meet the definition of length without the muzzle attachment? Does it also mean mean that you can use the muzzle device in the length equation if you permanently attach it, but not if you don't? I thought AW was 26" for the new "category" of AW? Am I wrong and it's still 30"? |
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CA SBR/SBS laws have a minimum 26" overall length requirement. |
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From the new regulations that CA DOJ BOF released yesterday.
11 CCR 5471 For purpose of Penal Code section 30515 and this Chapter the following definitions shall apply: (x) "Overall length of less than 30 inches" with respect to a centerfire rifle means the rifle has been measured in the shortest possible configuration that the weapon will function/fire and the measurement is less than 30 inches. Folding and telescoping stocks shall be collapsed prior to measurement. The approved method for measuring the length of the rifle is to measure the firearm from the end of the barrel, or permanently attached muzzle device, if so equipped, to that part of the stock that is furthest from the end of the barrel, or permanently attached muzzle device. (Prior to taking a measurement the owner must also check any muzzle devices for how they are attached to the barrel.) |
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The text is from the "new" DOJ proposed AW regs.
The 30" minimum OAL (feature) has always been part of the CA AW law, however, I didn't think it required a permanent mzlle device to reach it.
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#12
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In the past...
Feds required permanently attached muzzle devices to be included in a firearm's overall length. CA did not require permanently attached muzzle devices to be included in a firearm's overall length. With the new regulations, CA is adopting what the Feds required for measuring overall length in regards to muzzle devices. |
#13
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Seems to me...
If you have a featureless semi-auto centerfire rifle, then muzzle device needs to be permanently attached to meet the minimum 30" overall length requirement. If you have a semi-auto centerfire rifle with a "bullet button" maglock and are registering it as an assault weapon, then the muzzle device does not need to be permanently attached to meet the minimum 30" overall length requirement. ^After it has been registered as an assault weapon, there is nothing in the new regulations that will prevent the removal of the muzzle device to reduce the overall length to 26" or greater. |
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Prior to the 2017 regulations, it was my understanding that your BB rifle had to be at least 30" in length to avoid being classified as an AW. Therefore if it was under 30", it would be considered an AW, and had to be greater than 26" to avoid being an SBR. Incorrect?
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#15
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SBR = overall length of less than 26" AW (semi-auto centerfire rifle) = overall length less than 30" to 26". |
#17
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Overall length needs to be 26" or greater. |
#18
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So what does this all mean for the FN PS 90? They have 4" barrel extensions to make them 30" that are held on with a sleeve and set screws. Do I need to find some way to permanently attach it?
I was really hoping to ditch the extension and horrible BB after registering. |
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#20
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If you register it as an assault weapon, then after it becomes a RAW; you need to keep the "bullet button" maglock + 10 round magazine, but it appears you can remove the barrel extension as long as the overall length is 26" or greater. |
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Thanks for the clarification Q.
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#24
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How does this work if we need to send pictures of the rifle to be registered as RAW with the 30" OAL and muzzle break to meet compliant now but later take it off once registered? I thought you can't alter your rifle from the original picture you send into the DOJ when registering? Just wondering. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Personally I think the pics are more for proof that you own a now registrable AW and not just a lower or parts kit. Like current AW's, you can do whatever you want to it. People forget that when the CA 2000 AW registration took affect, the Federal assault weapons ban was in effect. If you didn't own a pre-ban AW, you were limited to two features under Fed. law. When that expired in 2004, all those CA registered fixed stocked AR's quickly had collapsible stocks and flash hiders installed. Still within the definition of the CA assault weapon. So I don't see how the CA DOJ can limit you to what you can do with your firearm after registration. Did anyone keep their off roster single shot pistol a single shot after they picked it up? Also something registered with the DOJ to conform to the law, and than quickly changed and still conforms to the law. Again, all my opinion.
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Watch & Pray Last edited by Dump1567; 01-01-2017 at 5:57 AM.. |
#26
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5477 is a tactical attempt to make poorly written law function as legislators wanted and strategic push to expand the California executive branch's legislative power. Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 01-01-2017 at 6:12 AM.. |
#27
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Still undecided. Anyone know someone in Sacramento that can drill, pin and weld my brake on my Tavor? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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With the stripped lowers, I figure that most people figured it would be easy, just send in serial numbers and build later. Like in '86 with the machine gun cutoff, receivers and sears were being made to the minimum just to get registered in time. I know of a guy that has at least 500 registered machine guns, and a lot of them are just flat pieces of metal.
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#29
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So what if our gun is 30" without the muzzle device? Like my Ar anf Ak. If i go featurless i need to weld/pin it? |
#30
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If already 30" without muzzle brake you should be good to go. This mainly pertains to bullpup as they are now changing it that if you don't register it, you will have to have at least 30" OAL without muzzle device. This was never a issue before 2017. As long as the brake makes the rifle 30" and your barrel it at least 16" it didn't need to be permanently attached. It's when you had a 14.5" barrel then it would as it needs to be 16" barrel OAL in CA. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#31
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Well said The CADOJ wants as much information as possible The guys who bought 26 lowers in Dec, will need to show they are complete and functional "all at the same time" by Dec 31st, 2016 to register as AW's in 2017 CA Law usually never states what is allowed, only what is not allowed LEO's will not have a photograph of the AW, only a serial number to reference
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#32
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Assume for featureless you are correct. Measurements are from end of stock to end of barrel or permanently affixed device. So yesterday, those with featureless Tavors, AUGs, FS2000 that had an unpinned extended muzzle brake were legal. Today they wake up to find they are in possession of an assault weapon? So with 2 days notice on a holiday weekend, DOJ gets to make them in violation. So if they fix after today, longer barrel, fixed device, longer stock, have they have still violated the law. Where does the law allow a grace period to fix? It seems no matter what they do now at the stroke of midnight are f'd What charge? 1.) Possession 2.) Manufacturing - not sure - would that be ex-post facto? They manufactured prior if they did the work (converted from BB to featureless prior 1/1/17) My assumption is the definitions have the force law as of today. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#33
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Seems to me that the DOJ would have to allow the registration of what was a previously featureless SACF rifle (without a BB) because it now has an OAL <30".
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#34
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Regarding the FN rifle it has a 16" barrel and a 26" OAL without the barrel extension. I always assumed I'd have to register it but I didn't think I'd have to weld/pin the barrel extension on it or buy a 4" brake or a 20" barrel. But from the conversations in this thread it seemed like that when I first posted my question.
Now people are saying if you register then 26" OAL is ok. How are you suppose to get actual clear answers on ANY of this stuff without accidentally incriminating yourself? |
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#37
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#38
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Couldn't they charge you with possession of an assault rifle? You would have to pay legal costs to defend and risk conviction. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#40
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"I register...", as in will register. My goal is the same as yours...
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