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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 03-13-2018, 9:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
I don't see the CHP or any other agency putting in that much effort just to issue a ticket for an infraction violation, especially since they have no way of knowing if what you are doing is illegal or not.
Trickster,

You're right, but it goes even deeper than that.

A first time violation of PC 30314 (Importing Ammo) is an infraction. Subsequent violations are misdemeanors. To make an arrest (even if the arrestee is subsequently released on a citation) the violation of law must occur in the presence of the arresting officer (unless the infraction or misdemeanor is one of the few exempted from this requirement - PC 30314 is not exempted).

I suppose that if the CHP (or DOJ agent depending on your level of paranoia) officer saw the offender drive over the border, and could meet the "probable cause" standard to believe the ammunition was purchased out of state, then a citation could be issued.

But if the border crossing occurred outside of the officer's presence, then the prosecution would have to occur via complaint.

Given CHP's workload and enforcement priorities, I just don't see this happening.

Same for DOJ, they may employ the law as a tool against significant violators, but I just don't see them staking out the border to bust an infraction.

Time to buy stock in companies that make tin foil.
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  #42  
Old 03-13-2018, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Trickster,

You're right, but it goes even deeper than that.

A first time violation of PC 30314 (Importing Ammo) is an infraction. Subsequent violations are misdemeanors. To make an arrest (even if the arrestee is subsequently released on a citation) the violation of law must occur in the presence of the arresting officer (unless the infraction or misdemeanor is one of the few exempted from this requirement - PC 30314 is not exempted).

I suppose that if the CHP (or DOJ agent depending on your level of paranoia) officer saw the offender drive over the border, and could meet the "probable cause" standard to believe the ammunition was purchased out of state, then a citation could be issued.

But if the border crossing occurred outside of the officer's presence, then the prosecution would have to occur via complaint.

Given CHP's workload and enforcement priorities, I just don't see this happening.

Same for DOJ, they may employ the law as a tool against significant violators, but I just don't see them staking out the border to bust an infraction.

Time to buy stock in companies that make tin foil.
Thanks for that explanation RickD.

I do wonder, however, if just the knowledge that they may be out there looking, will be enough deterrent to accomplish their goal of reducing ammo "smuggling".
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  #43  
Old 03-13-2018, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Second and subsequent offenses can be charged as a misdemeanor
You have to be found guilty at least once before that happens.
Way too much effort required just for a possible infraction citation.
Even if they have someone observe you purchasing ammo out of state and bringing it into CA, it does not mean that a crime has occurred. There are plenty of people exempt from the importation law and they have no way of knowing if you are exempt until you are stopped.
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  #44  
Old 03-13-2018, 10:14 AM
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Sounds like another useless law, rarely enforced, out there to snare the egregiously stupid.

Actually just clutters up the penal code.

Worst political class ever.
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  #45  
Old 03-13-2018, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
The Cal DOJ must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the ammo in your possession was bought out of state.

Unless you have the receipts they can't prove anything except you have it.

Like most laws, these are intended to keep the lawful under control while the criminal element will ignore it. In other words, control the populace like all governments desire to do.
You dont think a sworn officer who tetifies “i followed Cg87 from his car, which had california plates, which he parked outside the reno gun show, to the gun show, where he bought a crate of ammo, and then watched him carry it to his car. I followed him and he made no stops until the border, at which time i notified CHP, and watched the stop. The case of ammo was found in his trunk. I recognize it was the same brand and caliber i watched him purchase in Nevada 45 minutes earlier” would be a problem?

I do.
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  #46  
Old 03-13-2018, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
You have to be found guilty at least once before that happens.
Way too much effort required just for a possible infraction citation.
Even if they have someone observe you purchasing ammo out of state and bringing it into CA, it does not mean that a crime has occurred. There are plenty of people exempt from the importation law and they have no way of knowing if you are exempt until you are stopped.
If this was any place besides CA - home to DeLeon, Newsome, Feinstein, Pelosi, Villaraigosa, et al - then I'd be right there with you.

Never discount bat Sh crazy, not in this state. If it makes perfect sense to you or I, then that is even more reason to watch your back here. There is no 'sense' to recent CA gun laws, and the politicians running this place all have a serious hard on for making gun owners out to be the enemy of the people.

LEO in this state have shown time and again that they will carry the water, so long as the checks, favors, & exemptions keep coming and golden parachutes keep popping. If they aren't Sheriff, then LE high-ups here are beholden to them. And the S rolls down hill from there.
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  #47  
Old 03-13-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
You have to be found guilty at least once before that happens.
Way too much effort required just for a possible infraction citation.
Even if they have someone observe you purchasing ammo out of state and bringing it into CA, it does not mean that a crime has occurred. There are plenty of people exempt from the importation law and they have no way of knowing if you are exempt until you are stopped.
It sounds like pretty good probably cause to me. While I know a few people that are exempt that do shop in Nevada due to logistics, I would find it hard to believe that someone that is exempt would take the time and expense to drive out of state to purchase ammo when they can have it shipped to their house.

If I worked for the DOJ, I would want to find a couple people illegally importing ammo to use as poster children for anyone casually thinking about doing the same. One well publicized arrest and "conviction" would likely stop the flow of relatively honest people from illegally importing ammo. Mission accomplished.
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  #48  
Old 03-13-2018, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by OlderThanDirt View Post
It sounds like pretty good probably cause to me. While I know a few people that are exempt that do shop in Nevada due to logistics, I would find it hard to believe that someone that is exempt would take the time and expense to drive out of state to purchase ammo when they can have it shipped to their house.

If I worked for the DOJ, I would want to find a couple people illegally importing ammo to use as poster children for anyone casually thinking about doing the same. One well publicized arrest and "conviction" would likely stop the flow of relatively honest people from illegally importing ammo. Mission accomplished.
I go to a gun show in Reno at least a couple of times a year and visit Reno several other times for various reasons. I almost always purchase ammo either at a gun show or Cabela's.
As for publicized arrest and conviction, you mean publicizing the issuance of a infraction notice to appear and the resulting case which probably be handled in traffic court or the party will simply mail in the fine.
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  #49  
Old 03-13-2018, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
You dont think a sworn officer who tetifies “i followed Cg87 from his car, which had california plates, which he parked outside the reno gun show, to the gun show, where he bought a crate of ammo, and then watched him carry it to his car. I followed him and he made no stops until the border, at which time i notified CHP, and watched the stop. The case of ammo was found in his trunk. I recognize it was the same brand and caliber i watched him purchase in Nevada 45 minutes earlier” would be a problem?

I do.
Like I said, that is a lot of effort to write what is basically the same thing as a traffic ticket and there is no guarantee that the party isn't exempt from the law in the first place.
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  #50  
Old 03-13-2018, 12:27 PM
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Guys, is it really a good idea to suggest breaking the law in here?
I would never do that
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  #51  
Old 03-13-2018, 12:37 PM
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Question: I go to Reno to visit relatives several times a year and take ammo with me to shoot north of sparks out by pyramid lake. Is ammo the same as if I had a standard cap mag (ie I can take it out but NOT import it again)?
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  #52  
Old 03-13-2018, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by eighteenninetytwo View Post
Question: I go to Reno to visit relatives several times a year and take ammo with me to shoot north of sparks out by pyramid lake. Is ammo the same as if I had a standard cap mag (ie I can take it out but NOT import it again)?
No.

Please refer to PC 30314(a).
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  #53  
Old 03-13-2018, 1:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
I cant believe anyone would be stupid enough to buy something illegal in California at a gun show ten miles from the border, and jump in the car to cross the border with it.
They are and they do.
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  #54  
Old 03-13-2018, 1:47 PM
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I would bet they are stoooooopid enough to pay with a credit card.
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  #55  
Old 03-13-2018, 1:55 PM
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Whats this fascination with Gun shows and ammo lol... Theres so Manny other places to buy ammo legally while in NV for your legal use in NV...
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  #56  
Old 03-13-2018, 2:29 PM
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They have time, money and effort to do this??? how come they don't have time, money, and effort to go after illegal immigrants crossing that state line? and those who are already here?
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  #57  
Old 03-13-2018, 2:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
No.

Please refer to PC 30314(a).
I never even read that before in that context. So is the moral of the story to always buy ammo that you had previously bought legally in CA and can prove that you did? ie: you have a receipt for having bought 1,000 rds of wolf .223 fmj steelcase legally in 2017, so make sure you always buy that exact product with cash.

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  #58  
Old 03-13-2018, 2:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
I cant believe anyone would be stupid enough to buy something illegal in California at a gun show ten miles from the border, and jump in the car to cross the border with it.
You have a lot if faith in Darwin...

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  #59  
Old 03-13-2018, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
I cant believe anyone would be stupid enough to buy something illegal in California at a gun show ten miles from the border, and jump in the car to cross the border with it.
Especially when cabelas is just 5 miles from the border, lol.
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  #60  
Old 03-13-2018, 3:51 PM
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I always stop at Scheels and buy all kinds of magazines and ammo. If the stupid DOJ wants to follow me all the way to Utah or wait for me to come back across the stateline they can pull me over if they want. I always leave all the mags with my kids in Utah and almost never come back with any ammo.
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  #61  
Old 03-13-2018, 4:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
I never even read that before in that context. So is the moral of the story to always buy ammo that you had previously bought legally in CA and can prove that you did? ie: you have a receipt for having bought 1,000 rds of wolf .223 fmj steelcase legally in 2017, so make sure you always buy that exact product with cash.
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  #62  
Old 03-13-2018, 4:03 PM
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The ammo and mag laws should be repeatedly and extensively violated.

If we were half the men that the founders were, each member of calguns would have multiple smuggled standard capacity mags and once the ammo law is in effect, each of us would be illegally importing hundreds of millions of rounds to distribute in any way we see fit.
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  #63  
Old 03-13-2018, 4:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Hmmm, could it happen? Here is sworn testimony from a DOJ agent.

You bet it could happen:
https://www.scribd.com/mobile/docume...Ignatius-Chinn




If you notice the actual words of the court transcript the Officer stated "We followed"...

So he was able to articulate the entire act, from purchase to importation...

So if you were a Ca. resident, and bought something which was Ca prohibited in Nevada, and traveled to a location where you could have dropped of the prohibited item that would "break" the ability for an Officer to testify that without any doubt you still had the item with you...

Bottom line is don't break the law. leave Ca. prohibited items purchased out of state, out of state.

Even with a "break" in an officers observation of someone returning to Ca. who had purchased a CA. prohibited item in another state. The Officer still could make a "pretext" stop (detention) for a unrelated Vehicle Code violation, and take the detention from there looking for PC or RS to conduct a search.

Again don't import CA. prohibited items into the state, and you need not worry about getting arrested.
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  #64  
Old 03-13-2018, 4:23 PM
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Originally Posted by eighteenninetytwo View Post
Question: I go to Reno to visit relatives several times a year and take ammo with me to shoot north of sparks out by pyramid lake. Is ammo the same as if I had a standard cap mag (ie I can take it out but NOT import it again)?
Have your relatives pick up and gift you ammo while you’re in Oregon or wherever visiting or while on vacation.

California shouldn’t be able to site you for that because the ammo is a gift and you didn’t buy it.

California is getting out of control with rules and regulations. They better be very careful because there will come a time where folks will just not follow the law. Lol we all know it’s going on as we speak.

Just like what’s going on in Chicago right now.
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  #65  
Old 03-13-2018, 4:26 PM
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I'm really not at all surprised by this. Police in Colorado try to catch out of state visitors on the interstate that are smuggling Marijuana back to a states where it is illegal.
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Old 03-13-2018, 4:43 PM
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So who wants to sell me a bunch of empty ammo boxes at the next Reno Gun Show?
I want to troll these *** hats.
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  #67  
Old 03-13-2018, 5:46 PM
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So who wants to sell me a bunch of empty ammo boxes at the next Reno Gun Show?
I want to troll these *** hats.
While your heart seems to be in the correct place it, nonetheless, appears that you have too much spare time. The solution is to get yourself a progressive reloading press and load your own. About half the price of commercial ammo if you view it as a hobby and do not include a labor component, the same as shooting.
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Old 03-13-2018, 5:52 PM
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I'm really not at all surprised by this. Police in Colorado try to catch out of state visitors on the interstate that are smuggling Marijuana back to a states where it is illegal.
That seems like a total waste of time and resources. How are the Colorado authorities going to prove that you are attempting to break another state's laws? How would the Colorado courts have any jurisdiction? Have you been smoking too much Colorado weed?
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  #69  
Old 03-13-2018, 6:15 PM
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You guys are doing it wrong. First, park your car at your hotel, take an uber to the airport. Fly to Cyprus. Take a boat to Beirut. Then, fly to Taiwan. Finally, fly into Vegas and take a cab to the gun show. Then on the way back, go a different route. Oh, and put cat piss on you, it messes with sniffing dogs.
F___ Vegas, if I’m going to Beirut, I’m taking an Uber to Syria and picking up a couple of MP/STGs (I’ll figure out that importation when I get to that bridge).

S___, was that out loud?
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  #70  
Old 03-13-2018, 6:29 PM
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Originally Posted by VaderSpade View Post
I'm just back from the big show in Reno this last weekend where I saw a CA Fish & Wildlife truck leaving the show.

WTH is CA F&W doing there???
probably buying ammo and off rosters!!!!!!
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  #71  
Old 03-13-2018, 7:03 PM
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I'm really not at all surprised by this. Police in Colorado try to catch out of state visitors on the interstate that are smuggling Marijuana back to a states where it is illegal.
I live in Colorado and I've never seen that.
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  #72  
Old 03-13-2018, 7:40 PM
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If the CA DOJ truly want to be criminals, they will pay the consequences.
Of that, there is no doubt.
Just too much real estate out there to be safe.
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  #73  
Old 03-13-2018, 7:54 PM
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No post offices in NV, eh?
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Old 03-14-2018, 4:34 AM
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Hmmm, could it happen? Here is sworn testimony from a DOJ agent.

You bet it could happen:
https://www.scribd.com/mobile/docume...Ignatius-Chinn





An informative and valuable read.

This is sooo great. It's like getting the band back together.

Allison and Iggy together again.

Back in the good old days when we were so young and innocent, so optimistic about the Justice System and the impartiality of the Courts.

Like OHOD says, 'Preserve your memories, they're all that's left you...'
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  #75  
Old 03-14-2018, 4:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless View Post
Have your relatives pick up and gift you ammo while you’re in Oregon or wherever visiting or while on vacation.

California shouldn’t be able to site you for that because the ammo is a gift and you didn’t buy it.

California is getting out of control with rules and regulations. They better be very careful because there will come a time where folks will just not follow the law. Lol we all know it’s going on as we speak.

Just like what’s going on in Chicago right now.

There is no crime in Californians buying ammo out of state. The crime is in importing into the state, bringing it back across the border.

Just get yourself one of them COEs and a 03FFL and you are good to go.
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  #76  
Old 03-14-2018, 5:07 AM
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Hey DOJ, you better start using the AG check point stations to search all vehicles returning from out of state. Because I bet there is a constant flow of hi cap magazines, fireworks and ammo coming into this state every single day.... along with ferrets and fruit.
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  #77  
Old 03-14-2018, 7:44 AM
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These laws are intended for the law abiding. Criminals will not obey them, as usual.

This is gun control on the installment plan.
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  #78  
Old 03-14-2018, 8:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
I go to a gun show in Reno at least a couple of times a year and visit Reno several other times for various reasons. I almost always purchase ammo either at a gun show or Cabela's.
As for publicized arrest and conviction, you mean publicizing the issuance of a infraction notice to appear and the resulting case which probably be handled in traffic court or the party will simply mail in the fine.
I remember the early days of seat belt and cell phone enforcement where the local police would have a news crew in tow so they could make a big production about giving infractions for noncompliance. Not that it has done any good with people obeying the cell phone ban. The publicity is in issuing the infraction and letting people know that they are being watched. Nobody cares about the final outcome.
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  #79  
Old 03-14-2018, 8:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryS View Post
Sounds like another useless law, rarely enforced, out there to snare the egregiously stupid.

Actually just clutters up the penal code.

Worst political class ever.
This just happens to be THE post regarding this thread. So true.
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  #80  
Old 03-14-2018, 8:38 AM
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God forbid the State put a little effort into getting the
heroin, meth, crack and whores off the street in my neighborhood,
instead of staking out of state gun shows.

Or better yet, just repealed the prohibition against shooting dealers, hustlers and pimps.
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