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Calguns Concealed Carry County Information Forum Information on how to get a LTC in yourCounty

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  #1001  
Old 01-06-2018, 6:34 AM
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2 years? thats it?!
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  #1002  
Old 01-06-2018, 9:48 PM
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Maybe it's just me, but it looks like CoCoCoSO overhauled their CCW permit information webpage again....

http://www.cocosheriff.org/howdoi/ccw_permit.htm

Not a peep about Good Cause, that I could see (by just skimming).

And if you live in a city with its own PD, Livingston wants you to apply with them. "However, persons residing in a municipality are encouraged to first contact their local Police Chief and apply for the license with that Agency."

Of course, he does NOT say you do NOT have to do that, you can apply directly with the sheriff first.

Plus, he does NOT say if your city PD denies you, you can then apply with the sheriff.
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  #1003  
Old 01-09-2018, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Maybe it's just me, but it looks like CoCoCoSO overhauled their CCW permit information webpage again....

http://www.cocosheriff.org/howdoi/ccw_permit.htm

Not a peep about Good Cause, that I could see (by just skimming).
Until you get to that part on the application...
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  #1004  
Old 01-09-2018, 2:00 PM
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Originally Posted by roush611 View Post
Until you get to that part on the application...
I did not start the online application process (since I don't live in CoCoCo), was just talking about the page I linked.

Does the online application give any clues as to what will pass or what will not pass as GC?
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  #1005  
Old 01-09-2018, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post

And if you live in a city with its own PD, Livingston wants you to apply with them. "However, persons residing in a municipality are encouraged to first contact their local Police Chief and apply for the license with that Agency."

Of course, he does NOT say you do NOT have to do that, you can apply directly with the sheriff first.

Plus, he does NOT say if your city PD denies you, you can then apply with the sheriff.

I fell for that when I applied in CoCo in 2011. Applied with antioch, then applied with CoCo. Got denied by both.
If I hadn't moved to El Dorado I probably would have moved to Solano instead.
I now have my CCW regardless of how sheriff Livingston feels about it. And I proudly carry every time I visit family in Co co county.

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  #1006  
Old 02-17-2018, 10:45 AM
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Looking at the new CC County page for CCW's they list all the steps in the process. When you get to the training and qualifying requirements the only accepted one appears to be given by the Sheriff Range Officer. They list $60 as the cost.
Has anyone gotten that far in the process and can share what the class and qualifying shooting is like? They don't mention how long it is or what is covered. $60 doesn't sound like it will be very involved.
BTW, I called and spoke to the CCW co-coordinator. They only allow 2 guns on the permit, no 1911's and no SSE guns.
The only cost up front is for the "LiveScan" unless you make it to the approval. Then you will have the $100 for the 2 year license and $60 for the training / qualifying class.

Here is the link to all the CCW info:
http://www.cocosheriff.org/howdoi/ccw_permit.htm
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  #1007  
Old 02-17-2018, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Glider2 View Post
Looking at the new CC County page for CCW's they list all the steps in the process. When you get to the training and qualifying requirements the only accepted one appears to be given by the Sheriff Range Officer. They list $60 as the cost.
Has anyone gotten that far in the process and can share what the class and qualifying shooting is like? They don't mention how long it is or what is covered. $60 doesn't sound like it will be very involved.
BTW, I called and spoke to the CCW co-coordinator. They only allow 2 guns on the permit, no 1911's and no SSE guns.
The only cost up front is for the "LiveScan" unless you make it to the approval. Then you will have the $100 for the 2 year license and $60 for the training / qualifying class.

Here is the link to all the CCW info:
http://www.cocosheriff.org/howdoi/ccw_permit.htm
I PM'd another member about this a year ago and this was his reply:

Classroom portion: Basically retake the FSC test, then listen to a hilarious presentation by Sean Fawell (seriously, it's like comedy traffic school -- awesome). [I think Sean has left.]

Range:

From a belt holster (exposed is fine) on the whistle draw and fire six shots at the target from 5 yards, time limit 10 seconds. You have to keep the rounds somewhere on the torso of the silhouette. Reload (not on the clock).

Move back to 7 yds and repeat, time limit now 15 seconds. Reload (not on the clock).

Move back to 15 yds and repeat, time limit now 20 seconds.

Done.

Repeat for your second gun if you have one.


As I recall, the class finishes by around noon.
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  #1008  
Old 02-19-2018, 3:16 PM
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I gave up for now. But I'll let folks know what happens if I pick it back up.
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  #1009  
Old 03-06-2018, 8:33 PM
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Curious if anybody in Contra Costa County has gotten their CCW simply using “self defense” as their reason? I live in unincorporated Contra Costa and I’m curious if most people are getting denied because Contra Costa County Sheriff is deferring to the local PD (Walnut Creek PD, Orinda PD, etc.) instead of CCCSD issuing the permit. I ask because I recently looked at the application and noticed it asked if the applicant was in an incorporated area and if so “it is recommended that applicants apply through their local PD first.”

Anybody who lives in unincorporated Contra Costa County has success with “self defense?”
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  #1010  
Old 03-12-2018, 2:20 AM
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Originally Posted by scbauer View Post
Curious if anybody in Contra Costa County has gotten their CCW simply using “self defense” as their reason? I live in unincorporated Contra Costa and I’m curious if most people are getting denied because Contra Costa County Sheriff is deferring to the local PD (Walnut Creek PD, Orinda PD, etc.) instead of CCCSD issuing the permit. I ask because I recently looked at the application and noticed it asked if the applicant was in an incorporated area and if so “it is recommended that applicants apply through their local PD first.”

Anybody who lives in unincorporated Contra Costa County has success with “self defense?”
i don't think deffering people to their city PD would be considered a denial, maybe they are just trying to cut down on the number of applicants?
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  #1011  
Old 03-12-2018, 7:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Glider2 View Post
Looking at the new CC County page for CCW's they list all the steps in the process. When you get to the training and qualifying requirements the only accepted one appears to be given by the Sheriff Range Officer. They list $60 as the cost.
Has anyone gotten that far in the process and can share what the class and qualifying shooting is like? They don't mention how long it is or what is covered. $60 doesn't sound like it will be very involved.
BTW, I called and spoke to the CCW co-coordinator. They only allow 2 guns on the permit, no 1911's and no SSE guns.
The only cost up front is for the "LiveScan" unless you make it to the approval. Then you will have the $100 for the 2 year license and $60 for the training / qualifying class.

Here is the link to all the CCW info:
http://www.cocosheriff.org/howdoi/ccw_permit.htm
Site implies it’s pretty successful for offering CCW for those that pass. Anyone go through and get theirs? Seems fairly simple.
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  #1012  
Old 03-12-2018, 7:47 AM
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Originally Posted by nhlfan14 View Post
i don't think deffering people to their city PD would be considered a denial, maybe they are just trying to cut down on the number of applicants?
I guess what I’m saying is this...
  • Application asks if you’ve ever been denied a CCW
  • Application also asks if you live within city limits

I am assuming the first point above is an easy way for CCCSD to deny someone who is using “self defense” as cause, by simply saying “someone else thinks you are unworthy of a CCW, so we will agree on that basis alone and deny your CCW.”

I’m also assuming that the second point above forces people to go to their city police chief first, and thereby causing the applicant to get a denial (because most city PD’s in CCC will not issue a CCW), and thus effectively forcing the applicant to answer “yes” to the first point above.

So, I’m asking those people who live in UNINCORPORATED Contra Costa County whether or not they were able to answer “no” to both of the questions above and still use “self defense” to get approved by CCCSD.

Anybody?
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  #1013  
Old 03-12-2018, 9:44 AM
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There’s “denial for cause”, like being a prohibited person, and “denial because we don’t issue”.

The first is a problem.

The second is merely Livingston’s policy of harassment.
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  #1014  
Old 03-13-2018, 6:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
There’s “denial for cause”, like being a prohibited person, and “denial because we don’t issue”.

The first is a problem.

The second is merely Livingston’s policy of harassment.
This confuses me. Are you implying that Livingston will deny most applicants “because they don’t issue?”
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  #1015  
Old 03-14-2018, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by scbauer View Post
This confuses me. Are you implying that Livingston will deny most applicants “because they don’t issue?”
Hello! You are familiar with issuance in CoCoC? yes?
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  #1016  
Old 03-14-2018, 10:47 AM
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The Sheriff does not have a blanket "we don't issue" position. At the beginning of 2017 if I recall correctly a newspaper did a FOIA request and found there were about 330 CoCo Sheriff-issued permits outstanding. I'm sure there are more than that now. I personally know nine people who have been issued CCW by the Sheriff, and one who was denied.

If you live in the county and outside city limits the Sheriff will consider your application. Unless there are immediately disqualifying items in your background check you'll get to the interview stage. They say they evaluate "the whole person" including your "good cause" for issuance.

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Originally Posted by scbauer View Post
This confuses me. Are you implying that Livingston will deny most applicants “because they don’t issue?”
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  #1017  
Old 03-14-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rkt88edmo View Post
Hello! You are familiar with issuance in CoCoC? yes?
No, I have never applied, which is why I’m asking. Have you? If so, maybe you can help the conversation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vandal View Post
The Sheriff does not have a blanket "we don't issue" position. At the beginning of 2017 if I recall correctly a newspaper did a FOIA request and found there were about 330 CoCo Sheriff-issued permits outstanding. I'm sure there are more than that now. I personally know nine people who have been issued CCW by the Sheriff, and one who was denied.

If you live in the county and outside city limits the Sheriff will consider your application. Unless there are immediately disqualifying items in your background check you'll get to the interview stage. They say they evaluate "the whole person" including your "good cause" for issuance.
Thanks... perhaps I’ll apply. Do you know if any of those 9 were simply “self defense” or we’re they LEO’s or some other “good reason?”
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Old 03-14-2018, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vandal View Post
The Sheriff does not have a blanket "we don't issue" position. At the beginning of 2017 if I recall correctly a newspaper did a FOIA request and found there were about 330 CoCo Sheriff-issued permits outstanding. I'm sure there are more than that now. I personally know nine people who have been issued CCW by the Sheriff, and one who was denied.

If you live in the county and outside city limits the Sheriff will consider your application. Unless there are immediately disqualifying items in your background check you'll get to the interview stage. They say they evaluate "the whole person" including your "good cause" for issuance.
Do you have a link to the newspaper article?
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  #1019  
Old 03-14-2018, 12:16 PM
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None of those nine are LEOs (who shouldn't need CCW anyway) or anything like that. None of the "good cause" statements were "self defense."

Here's a link to the newspaper article from a year ago. It was ABC7 who did the FOIA but several papers had articles about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scbauer View Post
Thanks... perhaps I’ll apply. Do you know if any of those 9 were simply “self defense” or we’re they LEO’s or some other “good reason?”
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  #1020  
Old 03-14-2018, 1:27 PM
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Originally Posted by scbauer View Post
This confuses me. Are you implying that Livingston will deny most applicants “because they don’t issue?”
The cities don't issue. They have (or, say they have) designated that function to the Sheriff's Office.

A refusal by a CoCo city will have no effect on whether the Sheriff might issue; cities don't even run a background check, so they don't refuse 'for cause'. Of course, since the Sheriff knows quite well cities (generally - I'm not certain it's all CoCo cities) don't issue, making a city resident apply at their city before going to the Sheriff is no more than harassment.
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  #1021  
Old 03-14-2018, 6:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
The cities don't issue. They have (or, say they have) designated that function to the Sheriff's Office.

A refusal by a CoCo city will have no effect on whether the Sheriff might issue; cities don't even run a background check, so they don't refuse 'for cause'. Of course, since the Sheriff knows quite well cities (generally - I'm not certain it's all CoCo cities) don't issue, making a city resident apply at their city before going to the Sheriff is no more than harassment.
Okay, thanks. I was thinking that CoCo Sheriff would use “Walnut Creek PD denied you so we are denying you for that reason” as an excuse, even knowing the cities don’t issue. But it sounds like that isn’t the case.

Appreciate the clarification.
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Old 03-15-2018, 7:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scbauer View Post
No, I have never applied, which is why I’m asking. Have you? If so, maybe you can help the conversation.



Thanks... perhaps I’ll apply. Do you know if any of those 9 were simply “self defense” or we’re they LEO’s or some other “good reason?”
Please read before you just jump in and ask everyone to do the homework for you. We have a lot of links to the data and your questions have already been answered.
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Old 04-03-2018, 5:54 PM
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I live in one city in CoCo County and Pastor a church in another. I had a nice meeting with the Police Chief in the city in which I Pastor and we talked about the CCW issue among other things.

He said that every city Police Chief in the County has agreed that they will only offer letters of denial, and that the letter of denial from the local police (except in areas not within a city limit of a city having their own Police Department) is necessary before applying to the County Sherrif.

I asked why. The answer was that the Sherrif was elected and they are secure for at least 4 years. The Police Chiefs serve at the whim of their city councils, and know they have a job for about 2 weeks (every council meeting). It can become a political nightmare for the chiefs — and they are toast if someone they issue a CCW to goes and kills someone without just cause.

He also said the Sherrif (Livingstone) gets a bum wrap. He essentially issues for cause and then only if he knows you - because he would be toast in the news if someone he issued to does something stupid with a gun. Likely true.

Something needs to change with the system. The 2nd amendment is on life support.
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Old 04-04-2018, 9:43 AM
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Originally Posted by DeltaBishop View Post
I live in one city in CoCo County and Pastor a church in another. I had a nice meeting with the Police Chief in the city in which I Pastor and we talked about the CCW issue among other things.

He said that every city Police Chief in the County has agreed that they will only offer letters of denial,
That's a violation of Salute v. Pitchess which said that each application must get individually process and that to decide applications as a class (denying them as a class or accepting them as a class), was not exercising discretion as required by law. IOW, those chiefs, by breaking the law (and, as they'll tell us, "ignorance of the law is no excuse"), have opened themselves up to legal liability via civil lawsuits.

Quote:
While a court cannot compel a public officer to exercise his discretion in any particular manner, it may direct him to exercise that discretion. We regard the case at bench as involving a refusal of the sheriff to exercise the discretion given him by the statute. Section 12050 imposes only three limits on the grant of an application to carry a concealed weapon: the applicant must be of good moral character, show good cause and be a resident of the county. To determine, in advance, as a uniform rule, that only selected public officials can show good cause is to refuse to consider the existence of good cause on the part of citizens generally and is an abuse of, and not an exercise of, discretion.

The petition before us alleges that petitioners are of good moral character and are residents of Los Angeles County. It is admitted that no inquiry into the existence of good cause has ever been made in connection with the application of these petitioners, or of any other applicant outside the limited group of public officials. It is the duty of the sheriff to make such an investigation and determination, on an individual basis, on every application under section 12050.
(emphasis added) From Salute v. Pitchess at:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-...l/1830587.html

So, the chiefs, including your own chief, are violating state law by refusing to issue CCWs and only issuing letters of denial. They can either delegate to the sheriff the whole CCW process (through a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU), IIRC), or they MUST exercise discretion and issue or deny applications individually after fully processing them. Denying them all is "an abuse of, not an exercise of, discretion." Those chiefs are breaking the law and have opened themselves up to liability and lawsuits. But since when do chiefs of police, Christian or pagan, care about obeying the law? That's for "little people," peons....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBishop View Post
and that the letter of denial from the local police (except in areas not within a city limit of a city having their own Police Department) is necessary before applying to the County Sherrif.
Again, this is illegal. CA's CCW statute says the sheriff must accept and process all applications from all qualified residents without any preconditions of his own desire, such as a prior denial by the resident's own Chief. Sheriff Livingston knows this.
Quote:
Sheriff’s Jurisdiction for Issue of CCW Licenses

The Sheriff may issue a license to any person residing within a municipality, including those that have police services contracted with the Office of the Sheriff. However, persons residing in a municipality are encouraged to first contact their local Police Chief and apply for the license with that Agency.
From: http://www.cocosheriff.org/howdoi/ccw_permit.htm

Note how it says they are "encouraged", not required, to first apply with their own Chief. Livingston and all the CoCoCo chiefs know what the law is. They're not so stupid as to put a requirement to violate it in writing on the public web. But what they'll say or imply in a private conversation, or one that is not being recorded....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBishop View Post
I asked why. The answer was that the Sherrif was elected and they are secure for at least 4 years. The Police Chiefs serve at the whim of their city councils, and know they have a job for about 2 weeks (every council meeting). It can become a political nightmare for the chiefs — and they are toast if someone they issue a CCW to goes and kills someone without just cause.
Possible political fallout from a speculated "bad shoot" is no excuse for breaking the law. They get paid $$$ to take "the heat." That's their job, as is obeying the law themselves.

Plus, CCWers are extremely law-abiding, even more so than LEOs, which might be expected since LEOs specifically choose careers that they know may regularly involved H2H combat and even gunfights whereas CCWs are accountants, dentists, homemakers, real estate agents, etc. See: https://crimeresearch.org/tag/how-la...ermit-holders/

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBishop View Post
He also said the Sherrif (Livingstone) gets a bum wrap. He essentially issues for cause and then only if he knows you - because he would be toast in the news if someone he issued to does something stupid with a gun. Likely true.
Same as with the chief: Possible political fallout from a speculated "bad shoot" is no excuse for breaking the law.

Livingston should do what the Monterey Co sheriff did: accept self defense as Good Cause but push Good Moral Character high to ensure that only Good Guys got CCWs.

From the Monterey Co SO website:
Quote:
Historically many people have applied for a CCW with little idea as to whether or not their request would be successful. Often the unknown element centers on the State of California’s requirement to show “good cause” in order to obtain a CCW. The standard of “good cause” varies widely from county to county. In my opinion, “personal protection” should suffice to establish the good cause standard.

However, with this standard comes a requirement that the background process be more thorough and rigorous than has been the case in the past. At some point during your application process, a background investigator will contact a sampling of your neighbors, family and co-workers to determine your suitability to carry a concealed weapon. We will advise the people we contact of the reason for the contact, and ask them if they would recommend you be issued a CCW permit.

While this may seem intrusive to some, I believe that with an expanded definition of “good cause” (that applies to virtually every lawful resident of the County) comes a higher level of due diligence on our part to ensure we are not issuing CCW permits to individuals who shouldn’t have one. Those individuals who have lived an upstanding life in every respect and enjoy a well-earned reputation among their neighbors, co-workers and friends should have little problem successfully getting through our process.
From: https://www.montereysheriff.org/CCW/

That's what Livingston should do: accept SD = GC and thoroughly vet applicants. That would take CoCoCo from light red to dark green on the CA CCW GC map. It removes the GC barrier and replaces it with a high GMC hurdle/PITA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBishop View Post
Something needs to change with the system. The 2nd amendment is on life support.
While it is not Scripture, Shakespear said it well and biblically: “The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.” The problem is not "the system," but our lawless leaders.

Pastor, you need to rebuke the lawlessness of your Chief of Police and tell him to submit to the lawful authorities over him (the state legislative & executive authorities who's will is expressed in statutory laws and the state's judicial authority who's will is expressed in case laws). Dittos for when/if you meet Sheriff Livingston.

ANYONE interested in getting a CoCoCo SO CCW should copy this post and share it with the NRA's Civil Rights Defense Fund to sue their Chief and/or Sheriff Livingston if they are doing what the Chief said rather than what the Sheriff has on his webpage. https://www.nradefensefund.org/requesting-help.aspx

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Old 04-04-2018, 10:47 AM
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I should mention that this sort of illegal scheme for processing CCWs in CoCoCo is exactly what the civil grand jury (see post #947 above) is meant to address.
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Old 04-07-2018, 8:02 PM
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I’ll look at this when I have a chance. Incidentally, the Chief was trying to be a help to me.
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Old 04-07-2018, 9:33 PM
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Paladin,

Are you an attorney?
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Old 04-07-2018, 10:30 PM
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While I applaud what the Monterey County Sherrif has done, I wonder (out loud) how easy (or difficult) it would be to replicate in a more populated County with a higher crime rate given the limited financial and human resources the Sherrif’s office has.

It appears that the police chiefs are well within their legal right to have an agreement with the Sherrif that all CCW applications got through th Sherrif. This, according to AB1135 (Stats. 2015, ch. 785) which: “Authorizes the sheriff of a county to enter into an agreement with the chief or other head of a municipal police department of a city for the chief or other head of a municipal police department to process all applications for licenses to carry a concealed handgun, renewals of those licenses, and amendments of those licenses, for that city’s residents (Pen Code, § 26150 ).”
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Old 04-07-2018, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBishop View Post
While I applaud what the Monterey County Sherrif has done, I wonder (out loud) how easy (or difficult) it would be to replicate in a more populated County with a higher crime rate given the limited financial and human resources the Sherrif’s office has.

It appears that the police chiefs are well within their legal right to have an agreement with the Sherrif that all CCW applications got through th Sherrif. This, according to AB1135 (Stats. 2015, ch. 785) which: “Authorizes the sheriff of a county to enter into an agreement with the chief or other head of a municipal police department of a city for the chief or other head of a municipal police department to process all applications for licenses to carry a concealed handgun, renewals of those licenses, and amendments of those licenses, for that city’s residents (Pen Code, § 26150 ).”
That's different in detail - and possibly in legality - from
Quote:
He said that every city Police Chief in the County has agreed that they will only offer letters of denial,
Now, if what the Chief meant to say was 'all the chiefs, so far as he was aware, have the Memoranda of Understanding, and pursuant to delegating the function to the Sheriff, chiefs could only respond to CCW requests with letters instructing applicants to apply with the Sheriff', that would be another thing - but that isn't what you reported the chief as saying.
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Old 04-08-2018, 1:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBishop View Post
Paladin,

Are you an attorney?
The question is irrelevant. I haven't offered a legal opinion, just an opinion like anyone else online. I haven't offered/provided legal advice. I haven't offered/provided legal services.

We can all offer our opinions of laws ("'May Issue' CCWs in a No LOC state is an unconstitutional infringement upon our RKBA protected by the 2nd A!"), and cases ("CA9 en banc panel twisted Peruta to their own ends"), without practicing law, either with or without a license.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBishop View Post
While I applaud what the Monterey County Sherrif has done, I wonder (out loud) how easy (or difficult) it would be to replicate in a more populated County with a higher crime rate given the limited financial and human resources the Sherrif’s office has.
CoCoCo has a population of 1M and a population density of 1,300/mi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra...ty,_California

OC has a population of 3M and a population density of 3,200/mi -- ~2.5X the population density of CoCoCo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange...%2C_California

Orange County had 687 CCWs issued as of Dec 2010. They had 12,290 active CCWs issued and had almost 6,000 applications in the pipeline as of Dec 2017. They switched to a mostly online process and are catching up/reducing the backlog. They expect to have 20,000 active CCWs in about a year. FWIW I expect both Orange and San Diego County (pop. >3M) to stabilize around 60,000 CCWers each in a few years (~3% of the adult population).

How many CCWers does CoCoCo currently have: 300? 400? 500? http://www.baggss.us/

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBishop View Post
It appears that the police chiefs are well within their legal right to have an agreement with the Sherrif that all CCW applications got through th Sherrif. This, according to AB1135 (Stats. 2015, ch. 785) which: “Authorizes the sheriff of a county to enter into an agreement with the chief or other head of a municipal police department of a city for the chief or other head of a municipal police department to process all applications for licenses to carry a concealed handgun, renewals of those licenses, and amendments of those licenses, for that city’s residents (Pen Code, § 26150 ).”
As Librarian pointed out, that is a different process from what you previously described.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBishop View Post
He said that every city Police Chief in the County has agreed that they will only offer letters of denial, and that the letter of denial from the local police (except in areas not within a city limit of a city having their own Police Department) is necessary before applying to the County Sherrif.
I previously described your new position. (emphasis added below)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
So, the chiefs, including your own chief, are violating state law by refusing to issue CCWs and only issuing letters of denial. They can either delegate to the sheriff the whole CCW process (through a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU), IIRC), or they MUST exercise discretion and issue or deny applications individually after fully processing them. Denying them all is "an abuse of, not an exercise of, discretion."

<snip>

Again, this is illegal. CA's CCW statute says the sheriff must accept and process all applications from all qualified residents without any preconditions of his own desire, such as a prior denial by the resident's own Chief. Sheriff Livingston knows this. From: http://www.cocosheriff.org/howdoi/ccw_permit.htm

Note how it says they are "encouraged", not required, to first apply with their own Chief. Livingston and all the CoCoCo chiefs know what the law is. They're not so stupid as to put a requirement to violate it in writing on the public web. But what they'll say or imply in a private conversation, or one that is not being recorded....

<snip>
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Last edited by Paladin; 09-18-2018 at 2:24 PM.. Reason: had written "CoCoCo" when I meant Orange re. 60k CCWers in a few years
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Old 04-08-2018, 4:30 PM
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Paladin, please take no offense to my question. It was not a slight, a backhanded reply, or an indictment. It was a serious question; I thought perhaps you were an attorney and wanted to know.
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Old 04-08-2018, 9:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaBishop View Post
Paladin, please take no offense to my question. It was not a slight, a backhanded reply, or an indictment. It was a serious question; I thought perhaps you were an attorney and wanted to know.
Accusing someone of being a lawyer.... Well, d'ems is fightin' words!

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Old 04-27-2018, 4:00 PM
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Hello All,
It has been quiet on this thread for awhile and thought i'd spark it up a bit. Not sure if any of you remember me but i applied at Antioch PD and received a letter of denial without any reason.
I have recently moved to Pittsburg and will be submitting in my application at Pittsburg PD.
That said, I will try my best to update you all along the way. Any suggestions on how to tackle this whole situation would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 04-27-2018, 8:52 PM
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Looking over:
http://www.cocosheriff.org/howdoi/ccw_permit.htm

It sounds like they require you to pay a $100 fee and pay for a LiveScan before they decide on your GC statement. Is that correct? If so, that's a needless expense for all the folks who's GC won't pass.

They state that their training & range qualification class costs $60, but do not say how long it takes. Anyone know?

They say a max. of 2 handguns on your permit.

Are their CCW permits rice paper or like a driver's license?
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Old 04-27-2018, 9:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
The cities don't issue. They have (or, say they have) designated that function to the Sheriff's Office.

A refusal by a CoCo city will have no effect on whether the Sheriff might issue; cities don't even run a background check, so they don't refuse 'for cause'. Of course, since the Sheriff knows quite well cities (generally - I'm not certain it's all CoCo cities) don't issue, making a city resident apply at their city before going to the Sheriff is no more than harassment.
My *guess* is that since SO LEOs don't normally patrol or respond to calls in non-contract incorporated cities (i.e., cities with their own PDs), they won't have the intel on how much "drama" involved you that did not result in criminal charges. IOW, your own PD is better suited to doing a thorough background check/GMC eval. upon you than your own SO.

If you get denied for GMC, when you apply with the SO and tell them about that denial, I further assume the PD will share with the SO the details from your CCW file. The SO will add it to whatever they can find out about you, as well as from the state DOJ and the FBI and then make their own GMC determination based upon everything they know about you.
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Old 04-27-2018, 9:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LookItsJazzy View Post
Hello All,
It has been quiet on this thread for awhile and thought i'd spark it up a bit. Not sure if any of you remember me but i applied at Antioch PD and received a letter of denial without any reason.
IIRC, state law requires the Issuing Agence to specify the reason for the denial. Librarian might know the PC section. I'd use that to find out why I was denied before applying with any other IA. If they still won't tell you, IIRC, you can file for a writ of mandamus with a judge to FORCE them to obey the law and tell you why you were denied. Best to contact a CoCoCo criminal lawyer if you go that route. Maybe a free legal clinic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LookItsJazzy View Post
I have recently moved to Pittsburg and will be submitting in my application at Pittsburg PD.
And you'll still have the sheriff as your last hope -- 3 bites at the apple!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LookItsJazzy View Post
That said, I will try my best to update you all along the way. Any suggestions on how to tackle this whole situation would be greatly appreciated.
Make sure your GC is about you, your life and routine and what you feel places you at greater risk of attack than the Avg Joe/Josephine AND provide "proof" of that (i.e., provide evidence to show what you say/claim in your GC statement is true, that you're not making stuff up).
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Old 04-28-2018, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nszzya View Post
I PM'd another member about this a year ago and this was his reply:

Classroom portion: Basically retake the FSC test, then listen to a hilarious presentation by Sean Fawell (seriously, it's like comedy traffic school -- awesome). [I think Sean has left.]

Range:

From a belt holster (exposed is fine) on the whistle draw and fire six shots at the target from 5 yards, time limit 10 seconds. You have to keep the rounds somewhere on the torso of the silhouette. Reload (not on the clock).

Move back to 7 yds and repeat, time limit now 15 seconds. Reload (not on the clock).

Move back to 15 yds and repeat, time limit now 20 seconds.

Done.

Repeat for your second gun if you have one.


As I recall, the class finishes by around noon.
No fee to turn in application. They will mail you a form for the livescan. You pay for the scan. Next is the interview. If you get approved looks like 1/2 day with sheriff range officer $60 if that goes well the it's $100 for the 2 year license.
So the only gamble is ghe livescan cost.
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Old 04-28-2018, 1:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
My *guess* is that since SO LEOs don't normally patrol or respond to calls in non-contract incorporated cities (i.e., cities with their own PDs), they won't have the intel on how much "drama" involved you that did not result in criminal charges. IOW, your own PD is better suited to doing a thorough background check/GMC eval. upon you than your own SO.

If you get denied for GMC, when you apply with the SO and tell them about that denial, I further assume the PD will share with the SO the details from your CCW file. The SO will add it to whatever they can find out about you, as well as from the state DOJ and the FBI and then make their own GMC determination based upon everything they know about you.
That would make sense, if the cities actually did something with the app besides deny it.

Since most if not all have delegated the function to the Sheriff, no reason to do any investigating.

Example: Years ago I dropped in to talk to the Chief (then Ron Ace) in Concord. He wasn't available (I didn't have an appointment, so that was not an issue) so I chatted with his secretary/admin person and left my name.

Couple weeks later I got a denial letter. No app submitted, no prints, no fee.
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Old 04-28-2018, 1:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Glider2 View Post
No fee to turn in application. They will mail you a form for the livescan. You pay for the scan. Next is the interview. If you get approved looks like 1/2 day with sheriff range officer $60 if that goes well the it's $100 for the 2 year license.
So the only gamble is ghe livescan cost.
I want to make sure I'm understanding you.

1st some background questions: have you gone through the process? Did you get issued or denied? Was this before or after they switched to an online process?

Next. If I understand you correctly, you say that (1) you submit the application (online nowadays).

(2) They mail you the LiveScan form, and you go somewhere (UPS store?) and pay $?? get that done. (How much did/does that cost using their form?)

The LiveScan is the ONLY fee/charge you have to pay before your 1st interview and GC determination.

Next is (3) the interview where they will tell you whether your GC passes or not, whether you passed the background GMC check, and whether you can proceed. Correct? If you are told you can proceed, you schedule and pay $65 fee for training class w/range qualification. Correct?

Next is (4) attending the training class and passing the range qual. If you pass (they'll know right then), can you pay them the $100 fee for the license at class?

Last (5) is being told that your permit is ready to be picked up and to bring $100 fee for the 2 year license. (Or is this handled online and permit mailed to you?)
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Last edited by Paladin; 04-29-2018 at 5:12 PM..
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Old 05-03-2018, 12:29 AM
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While I’m not the one you asked - this link has most of the answers you sought:

http://www.cocosheriff.org/howdoi/ccw_permit.htm
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