Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Ladies Forum
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Ladies Forum A place for our female Calgunners to discuss, share and interact without the 'excess attention' sometimes found in online forums.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-09-2018, 8:46 PM
BonnieB's Avatar
BonnieB BonnieB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,990
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default Help settle a bet: Do AR15s produce a faster velocity than any given .223 rifle?

THIS THREAD IS POSTED IN THE WOMEN'S FORUM. GENTLEMEN ARE INVITED TO RESPOND IF THEY ARE CIVIL. IF NOT, PLEASE DON'T. THE WOMEN'S FORUM HAS RULES.


Folks, please help me settle an argument.

BFF and I were having dinner tonight, talking politics and what's-going-on. (She thinks she knows guns because she was raised in Merced and had a .22 and a 30-30 when she was a girl. No further experience that I know about.)

Marj says "The reason that AR15's are so scary is that they produce a much faster velocity bullet than other rifles".

I said "Nope. Velocity is a function of the ammunition. An AR15 and any other rifle using the same .223 ammunition will produce the same muzzle velocity, with some tiny variation from barrel length".

Marj says "Nope. There's something special about AR15's, the striker or whatever, that makes the bullet go faster."

I said "Nope, I don't think there's anything special in AR15's in the way they ignite the round. Being semi-automatic, they do pump out more bullets per minute, but that's not velocity".

So, I asked her to cite her sources, she can't, said maybe an article in the New York Times or on the internet news.

So, I think I'm right, and I'm gonna bet her $100 with a firm handshake deal on the answer. And I DO pay up or collect on my bets, so this has teeth.

The question is "Do AR15's produce faster muzzle velocity than any other type of rifle, assuming you use the same ammo?"

FFS, if I'm wrong, tell me! And regardless of who's right, can you please give me a reliable source of information, not just "Jimmy-joe's website" A manufacturer's opinion would be particularly good.
__________________
WHAT I HAVE LEARNED SO FAR, MOSTLY THE HARD WAY
• Do only safe sex. Never have sex with someone crazier than you are.
• Don't marry or move in together before you're both at least 25.
• Don't have children until you're married five years or at least age 30.
• Put 10% of your salary into savings every month no matter how broke you are.
• Don't ever screw around with the IRS.
• Keep a handgun on your bedside table.
• Don't smart-mouth judges, or cops who stop you on the road.
  #2  
Old 03-09-2018, 8:50 PM
Moemoe1's Avatar
Moemoe1 Moemoe1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,697
iTrader: 13 / 93%
Default

No. You’re absolutely correct. It depends on the ammunition/ powder and the length of the barrel. A 20inch barrel from a bolt action will produce faster velocity than an AR with a 16 inch barrel. Thus the same for a 20inch barreled AR15
  #3  
Old 03-09-2018, 8:53 PM
superdave50 superdave50 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central valley
Posts: 476
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

You could refer her to any reloading manual, where velocities are listed and cite a specific barrel length tested.

Last edited by superdave50; 03-09-2018 at 8:54 PM.. Reason: auto spellz
  #4  
Old 03-09-2018, 9:05 PM
BonnieB's Avatar
BonnieB BonnieB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,990
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Moe, why does the barrel length affect velocity? More spin? Physics isn't my strong suit...
__________________
WHAT I HAVE LEARNED SO FAR, MOSTLY THE HARD WAY
• Do only safe sex. Never have sex with someone crazier than you are.
• Don't marry or move in together before you're both at least 25.
• Don't have children until you're married five years or at least age 30.
• Put 10% of your salary into savings every month no matter how broke you are.
• Don't ever screw around with the IRS.
• Keep a handgun on your bedside table.
• Don't smart-mouth judges, or cops who stop you on the road.
  #5  
Old 03-09-2018, 9:06 PM
M1NM's Avatar
M1NM M1NM is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: West Covina
Posts: 5,848
iTrader: 47 / 100%
Default

The AR will be an unmeasureable amount slower given equal barrel length. Why? Because as the bullet gets past the gas port there will be a reduction in pressure since some of the energy is now being used to operate the action. And yes a .22 bullet can be loaded faster than a .30 cal but that's just physics.
__________________
  #6  
Old 03-09-2018, 9:29 PM
Foothills Foothills is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 35
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Ballistics

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieB View Post
Moe, why does the barrel length affect velocity? More spin? Physics isn't my strong suit...
More time with the expanding gasses pushing on the bullet. Once the bullet leaves the barrel the expanding gases are no longer imparting kinetic energy to the bullet and it starts to slow down. The longer the barrel, the more time the expanding gasses from the gunpowder are pushing on the bullet, and the longer it increases velocity.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/
  #7  
Old 03-09-2018, 9:39 PM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,766
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Presuming only .223 ammunition is involved, then mv would be the same as other non-AR design firearms.

However, use of 5.56 ammunition (which is more often associated with military style rifles) used in an AR-15 will yield a higher MV than .223. If the AR is chambered for 5.56, the .223 will be slower.

https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/relo...s-5-56x45-nato

https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...ats-in-a-name/
Quote:
When shooting .223 Rem. cartridges in a firearm chambered for 5.56x45 mm, it’s likely that there will be a degradation in accuracy and muzzle velocity due to the more generous chamber dimensions.
Here's a comparison of .223 v. 5.56 and barrel length https://rifleshooter.com/2015/12/223...s-to-6-inches/

Check the charts at the bottom and compare ammo/barrel/MV. Heavy bullets stay in the barrel longer, increasing pressure, resulting in higher MV.

So, it's pretty important to get the ground rules established before you make the bet.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool."
"The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first."
  #8  
Old 03-09-2018, 10:26 PM
Snoopy47's Avatar
Snoopy47 Snoopy47 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,940
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

If liberals only knew a .308 will produce the same energy at 500 yards as a .223 will at 50 yards.
__________________
Before there was Polymer there was Accuracy.
  #9  
Old 03-09-2018, 11:08 PM
russ69's Avatar
russ69 russ69 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,272
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Probably less velocity than the average hunting rifle with a longer barrel than most AR15 carbines(the most popular AR15).
__________________
  #10  
Old 03-10-2018, 5:34 AM
mooner760HD's Avatar
mooner760HD mooner760HD is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 274
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieB View Post
Moe, why does the barrel length affect velocity? More spin? Physics isn't my strong suit...
Longer barrel provides more space for the expanding gases to drive the bullet velocity up before the bullet leaves the barrel

Edit: oops should have refreshed the thread
  #11  
Old 03-10-2018, 5:42 AM
Whiskey_Tango's Avatar
Whiskey_Tango Whiskey_Tango is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PRK
Posts: 1,277
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Where does the energy come from to cycle the bolt on an AR15? Where does that same energy go on a bolt gun?
  #12  
Old 03-10-2018, 6:00 AM
firefly416 firefly416 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 155
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey_Tango View Post
Where does the energy come from to cycle the bolt on an AR15? Where does that same energy go on a bolt gun?
Most AR15s work via Direct Gas Impingement system whereby when you fire off a round, the expanding gases in the barrel exit via a hole in the top of the barrel and are then directed back towards the bolt pushing it back and ejecting the spent brass. The spring then provides an opposite push to the bolt pushing it back to the barrel, picking up a new round, chambering it, and the bolt going into battery and ready to fire.

A bolt gun will have no hole in the barrel for escaping gases to be redirected back to the bolt to move it. Also, your run-of-the-mill bolt action won't allow the bolt to go out of battery until it is lifted up and pulled back.

Last edited by firefly416; 03-10-2018 at 6:04 AM..
  #13  
Old 03-10-2018, 6:16 AM
FresnoRob's Avatar
FresnoRob FresnoRob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Fresno
Posts: 2,010
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Lots of good info here OP. I’ll just add at some point a longer barrel begins to hurt the performance. It depends on the amount of gas the round produces.
__________________
“No Kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave.”
- James Burgh
  #14  
Old 03-10-2018, 9:17 AM
Blade Gunner's Avatar
Blade Gunner Blade Gunner is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,302
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieB View Post
THIS THREAD IS POSTED IN THE WOMEN'S FORUM. GENTLEMEN ARE INVITED TO RESPOND IF THEY ARE CIVIL. IF NOT, PLEASE DON'T. THE WOMEN'S FORUM HAS RULES.


Folks, please help me settle an argument.

BFF and I were having dinner tonight, talking politics and what's-going-on. (She thinks she knows guns because she was raised in Merced and had a .22 and a 30-30 when she was a girl. No further experience that I know about.)

Marj says "The reason that AR15's are so scary is that they produce a much faster velocity bullet than other rifles".

I said "Nope. Velocity is a function of the ammunition. An AR15 and any other rifle using the same .223 ammunition will produce the same muzzle velocity, with some tiny variation from barrel length".

Marj says "Nope. There's something special about AR15's, the striker or whatever, that makes the bullet go faster."

I said "Nope, I don't think there's anything special in AR15's in the way they ignite the round. Being semi-automatic, they do pump out more bullets per minute, but that's not velocity".

So, I asked her to cite her sources, she can't, said maybe an article in the New York Times or on the internet news.

So, I think I'm right, and I'm gonna bet her $100 with a firm handshake deal on the answer. And I DO pay up or collect on my bets, so this has teeth.

The question is "Do AR15's produce faster muzzle velocity than any other type of rifle, assuming you use the same ammo?"

FFS, if I'm wrong, tell me! And regardless of who's right, can you please give me a reliable source of information, not just "Jimmy-joe's website" A manufacturer's opinion would be particularly good.
It’s the flux capacitor in AR 15 that make the bullets go faster.
__________________
If you find yourself in a fair fight, you're doing it all wrong.
  #15  
Old 03-10-2018, 9:36 AM
larkja larkja is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 805
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
The AR will be an unmeasureable amount slower given equal barrel length. Why? Because as the bullet gets past the gas port there will be a reduction in pressure since some of the energy is now being used to operate the action. And yes a .22 bullet can be loaded faster than a .30 cal but that's just physics.
So to sum it up for you:

1. Velocity will depend on the barrel length, weight of bullet, grains of powder, etc. But all things being equal, a 20" bolt and a 20" AR will effectively have the same velocity leaving the barrel.
2. As M1NM stated above, because a small % of the gas is redirected to the gas port to operate the action, there will be an infinitesimal reduction in velocity, probably only measurable to a percentage of a percentage of a percentage.
3. At some point, barrel length will negatively affect velocity, but I don't know what that would be, and nobody is going around with a 50" barrel.
4. When the cartridge is struck by the pin, it doesn't matter how hard it's struck, only that the primer ignites. So just because an AR might strike harder (no guarantees here) doesn't mean the bullet will have a greater velocity as it leaves the barrel. The pin doesn't push the bullet out of the cartridge, the explosion and expanding gasses do.

Here's the process for your friend:
Pull the trigger --> pin hits the primer --> primer ignites the powder and gasses push the bullet out the barrel --> the longer the barrel (reasonable length here), the longer the gasses are pushing on the bullet and the higher the velocity as it leaves the barrel --> once the bullet leaves the barrel, it is no longer being pushed and will start to slow down.

But, if you really wanted to nitpick her you could say the above points and then add on an AR, a very small % of the gasses are used to cycle the bolt, which doesn't really affect velocity, but statistically, it would actually be a little slower leaving an AR barrel.

So your friend loses either way
  #16  
Old 03-11-2018, 1:37 PM
russ69's Avatar
russ69 russ69 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,272
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FresnoRob View Post
Lots of good info here OP. I’ll just add at some point a longer barrel begins to hurt the performance. It depends on the amount of gas the round produces.
No, all centerfire rounds are producing gas pressure to drive bullets in any reasonable length barrel. A rimfire 22LR is finished burning at about 16 inches but centerfire cartridges are still driving bullets even after 36 inches.
__________________
  #17  
Old 03-11-2018, 1:43 PM
creampuff creampuff is offline
Village idiot
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,063
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Also, AR type rifles will tend to have 1 in 7 type of twist rates, and hunting rifles tend to have slower twist rates. In theory, the faster rates will have marginally slower muzzle velocity. This is all theoretical because we are talking very small differences.
  #18  
Old 03-12-2018, 9:23 AM
Californio Californio is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 3,811
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

I have a Winchester Model 70 bolt action with a 26" barrel.

The factory no-lead 35g NTX Superperformance .223 load reaches almost 4,000fps. which is much faster than any 5.56 Nato or .223 Remington round used in AR15 rifles.

Gas Guns because of their operation, moving parts, run at lower velocities and pressure, so the operating system does not get beat up and prematurely fail, bolt guns can push the limits, once the bolt is locked all the energy goes forward.
__________________
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez
  #19  
Old 03-13-2018, 4:01 PM
cockedandglocked's Avatar
cockedandglocked cockedandglocked is offline
I'm with stupid ☝️
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 14,613
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Carbine-length rifles are, actually, a very poor choice if your goal is to achieve maximum velocity. A .223 hunting rifle with a 24" barrel will have a superior velocity to a 16" AR, by about 300-400 ft/sec depending on the ammo.
__________________
DOJ has only processed 20% of 69k BBRAW apps. Your pending app will take ... "definitely between 2 weeks and 2 years." -Discogodfather

If DOJ visits you regarding your RAW application: Avoid opening your door if they don't have a warrant. Don't consent to a search. Don't "talk your way out of it". Assert your right to remain silent until you have a lawyer present.

2018 CA Legislation Quick-Reference & Statuses

  #20  
Old 03-13-2018, 4:12 PM
cockedandglocked's Avatar
cockedandglocked cockedandglocked is offline
I'm with stupid ☝️
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 14,613
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

It's also worth noting that 5.56/.223 is not really any faster than any other modern centerfire rifle cartridge, it's about average. And velocity does not correlate with deadliness anyways, so her main point was false even if she had been correct about her velocity point, which she wasn't.

5.56 is actually an incredibly poor choice of cartridges to pick for close-quarters against non-armored targets. This is why the MP5 and other pistol-caliber submachine guns are the weapon of choice for close quarters battle - 9mm JHP has superior terminal ballistics under 20 yards or so against unarmored targets, versus any small rifle cartridge.

My AR's are literally my last choice I'd pick for home defense.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
__________________
DOJ has only processed 20% of 69k BBRAW apps. Your pending app will take ... "definitely between 2 weeks and 2 years." -Discogodfather

If DOJ visits you regarding your RAW application: Avoid opening your door if they don't have a warrant. Don't consent to a search. Don't "talk your way out of it". Assert your right to remain silent until you have a lawyer present.

2018 CA Legislation Quick-Reference & Statuses


Last edited by cockedandglocked; 03-13-2018 at 4:34 PM..
  #21  
Old 03-27-2018, 9:15 AM
tbz tbz is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 67
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Nothing about the AR platform makes a bullet travel different than the same cartridge fired out of any other rifle with corresponding specs.
  #22  
Old 03-27-2018, 12:13 PM
gunmunkee gunmunkee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 109
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbz View Post
Nothing about the AR platform makes a bullet travel different than the same cartridge fired out of any other rifle with corresponding specs.
Did you read any of the previous posts?
  #23  
Old 03-27-2018, 3:00 PM
HooYah's Avatar
HooYah HooYah is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,088
iTrader: 43 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
It's also worth noting that 5.56/.223 is not really any faster than any other modern centerfire rifle cartridge, it's about average. And velocity does not correlate with deadliness anyways, so her main point was false even if she had been correct about her velocity point, which she wasn't.

5.56 is actually an incredibly poor choice of cartridges to pick for close-quarters against non-armored targets. This is why the MP5 and other pistol-caliber submachine guns are the weapon of choice for close quarters battle - 9mm JHP has superior terminal ballistics under 20 yards or so against unarmored targets, versus any small rifle cartridge.

My AR's are literally my last choice I'd pick for home defense.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Absolutely incorrect. There is a reason why NSWC Crane developed the Mk18/CQBR for SOF to replace the MP5 for CQB operations. Mk262 out of a 10.3" CQBR barrel beats the piss out of anything an MP5 can shoot. This is not even a question.
  #24  
Old 03-27-2018, 3:56 PM
Blade Gunner's Avatar
Blade Gunner Blade Gunner is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,302
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HooYah View Post
Absolutely incorrect. There is a reason why NSWC Crane developed the Mk18/CQBR for SOF to replace the MP5 for CQB operations. Mk262 out of a 10.3" CQBR barrel beats the piss out of anything an MP5 can shoot. This is not even a question.
CQB suppressed 300 black out would be a good go to.
If you’re not concerned about mag capacity 458 socom.
__________________
If you find yourself in a fair fight, you're doing it all wrong.

Last edited by Blade Gunner; 03-27-2018 at 4:00 PM..
  #25  
Old 03-27-2018, 4:08 PM
cockedandglocked's Avatar
cockedandglocked cockedandglocked is offline
I'm with stupid ☝️
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 14,613
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

I guess I should have specified 55gr 5.56 in my post. Of course 77gr open tip ammo with a powder load designed for shorter barrels is a better cqb cartridge than standard 55gr ball ammo.
__________________
DOJ has only processed 20% of 69k BBRAW apps. Your pending app will take ... "definitely between 2 weeks and 2 years." -Discogodfather

If DOJ visits you regarding your RAW application: Avoid opening your door if they don't have a warrant. Don't consent to a search. Don't "talk your way out of it". Assert your right to remain silent until you have a lawyer present.

2018 CA Legislation Quick-Reference & Statuses

  #26  
Old 03-28-2018, 11:00 AM
HooYah's Avatar
HooYah HooYah is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,088
iTrader: 43 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
I guess I should have specified 55gr 5.56 in my post. Of course 77gr open tip ammo with a powder load designed for shorter barrels is a better cqb cartridge than standard 55gr ball ammo.
Mk262 was developed as a match round for the Mk12 SPR program, not for the CQBR as a CQB cartridge. It just so happens the OTM bullet fragments violently and dicks people up regardless of the barrel length.
  #27  
Old 03-29-2018, 7:51 AM
omgwtfbbq's Avatar
omgwtfbbq omgwtfbbq is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: North Sac Valley
Posts: 3,186
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

As noted by a few other posters, velocity in-and-of itself doesn't necessarily equal more lethality.

Force = Mass x Acceleration, so it would logically follow that increasing either or both the mass and acceleration of the projectile would increase the force it applies to a target upon impact. For the most part, this is true.

However, how that force is applied to a target and whether or no the greater force means a longer range depends on way more factors than just mass x acceleration. You have to start talking about aerodynamic, target/projectile composition/density, fluid dynamics and more.

In short, OP, you're completely right. If you put money on it, spend it wisely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey_Tango View Post
Where does the energy come from to cycle the bolt on an AR15? Where does that same energy go on a bolt gun?
This video shows a pretty good breakdown of the internal operations of the AR15. If you want to skip directly to how the gas system works, go to approximately 3:00 min. mark.


In regards to a bolt gun, because there isn't a hole that vents gas into some kid of reloading/recocking system, most of the energy goes right out the muzzle. Some of the energy is also transferred rearward into the shooter as inertia.
__________________
CERTIFIED GLOCK ARMORER

"Far and away the best prize life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." - Theodore Roosevelt

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmorris7556 View Post
They teach you secret stuff I can't mention on line.
  #28  
Old 04-01-2018, 12:28 AM
Asphodel Asphodel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mt Hamilton, CA
Posts: 1,977
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Hi, Bonnie,

I'm curious, have you shown your friend all the replies here?

What is fascinating is that someone would be willing to do a $100 bet with only such a vague 'memory' of 'reading something somewhere'........are we seeing the skill of propagandists in action?

It would seem dramatically obvious that your friend 'really believed'........but ohmigawd why, someone would have to be really 'quality' ignorant about guns to take such a claim seriously......and if that ignorant, has she some 'emotional issue' planted by the propagandists, of which she isn't consciously aware???.......it would be really interesting to ask her how her feelings have evolved, over recent years.

cheers

Carla

Last edited by Asphodel; 04-01-2018 at 12:39 AM..
  #29  
Old 04-01-2018, 12:37 AM
Asphodel Asphodel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mt Hamilton, CA
Posts: 1,977
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HooYah View Post
Absolutely incorrect. There is a reason why NSWC Crane developed the Mk18/CQBR for SOF to replace the MP5 for CQB operations. Mk262 out of a 10.3" CQBR barrel beats the piss out of anything an MP5 can shoot. This is not even a question.
Hello, HooYah,

Would you be so good as to translate some of those acronyms into 'civilian-speak' for us?

Most of us here are purely civilian, and, while we may speak '06 or .270, .38/.357 or 44 mag with some fluency, we tend to be a bit ignorant of ongoing weapons design/upgrades......for an example, what are the specs of the MK262 round which make it desirable for some classes of potential situations?

cheers

Carla
  #30  
Old 04-01-2018, 6:14 AM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,766
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asphodel View Post
Hello, HooYah,

Would you be so good as to translate some of those acronyms into 'civilian-speak' for us?

Most of us here are purely civilian, and, while we may speak '06 or .270, .38/.357 or 44 mag with some fluency, we tend to be a bit ignorant of ongoing weapons design/upgrades......for an example, what are the specs of the MK262 round which make it desirable for some classes of potential situations?

cheers

Carla
In case HooYah doesn't drop by soon:

NSWC: United States Naval Special Warfare Command - think "SEALS", and all their support elements.

Crane: Research and Development center in Indiana supporting NSWC

Mk18/CQBR for SOF: Short-barreled M-16 variation Close Quarters Battle Rifle for Special Operations Forces

MP5 for CQB operations: Heckler and Koch 9mm, compact, select-fire, battle rifle for Close Quarters Battle.

Mk262: 5.56x45, 77 Grain Sierra Open Tip Match Ammo

Best.
__________________
"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”
"Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool."
"The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first."
  #31  
Old 04-06-2018, 7:00 PM
BonnieB's Avatar
BonnieB BonnieB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,990
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

THIS THREAD IS POSTED IN THE WOMEN'S FORUM. GENTLEMEN ARE INVITED TO RESPOND IF THEY ARE CIVIL. IF NOT, PLEASE DON'T. THE WOMEN'S FORUM HAS RULES.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asphodel View Post
Hi, Bonnie,

I'm curious, have you shown your friend all the replies here?

What is fascinating is that someone would be willing to do a $100 bet with only such a vague 'memory' of 'reading something somewhere'........are we seeing the skill of propagandists in action?
Well, for those of you following this thread, adding a lot of great information, I have to tell you that my "friend" welched. Wouldn't agree on the terms of the bet, started diversions and side discussions, did everything you can name to wriggle out of it. Implied that there was something wrong with me because I was willing to objectively prove a FACT, not an opinion. I think she actually heard this on the radio...

So, no $100 and maybe not so much a friend either. (sigh...)

But the REAL ISSUE here is that THE PUBLIC DOES NOT KNOW that an AR-15 style weapon IS NO DIFFERENT than any other SEMI AUTO RIFLE OF THE SAME CALIBER. For instance my .223 semi auto Ruger Mini 14. That will take a 30 round mag, (not in California and I don't have one). But they exist. The public thinks AR-15 types are somehow more lethal (because they are black and scary looking?). So, really, it's time to educate people. That's what I was trying to do, educate my friend, but I just FAILED.
__________________
WHAT I HAVE LEARNED SO FAR, MOSTLY THE HARD WAY
• Do only safe sex. Never have sex with someone crazier than you are.
• Don't marry or move in together before you're both at least 25.
• Don't have children until you're married five years or at least age 30.
• Put 10% of your salary into savings every month no matter how broke you are.
• Don't ever screw around with the IRS.
• Keep a handgun on your bedside table.
• Don't smart-mouth judges, or cops who stop you on the road.

Last edited by BonnieB; 04-06-2018 at 7:10 PM..
  #32  
Old 04-06-2018, 9:06 PM
nedro nedro is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,386
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

I think someone danced around this issue earlier.
Your average single shot bolt gun will have a slightly higher velocity than a gas operated gun like an AR.
So, when you getting paid?
__________________
Here in California; Law abiding Citizens are simply Useful Idiots and Criminals are a Protected Species.
<nedro>
  #33  
Old 04-07-2018, 12:44 AM
BonnieB's Avatar
BonnieB BonnieB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,990
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

I'm not getting paid. It was a handshake bet, and my friend backed out. Even though she KNOWS I never bet unless I'm sure, and I either collect or pay up. Funny, you hang out with people for years and think you know them...
__________________
WHAT I HAVE LEARNED SO FAR, MOSTLY THE HARD WAY
• Do only safe sex. Never have sex with someone crazier than you are.
• Don't marry or move in together before you're both at least 25.
• Don't have children until you're married five years or at least age 30.
• Put 10% of your salary into savings every month no matter how broke you are.
• Don't ever screw around with the IRS.
• Keep a handgun on your bedside table.
• Don't smart-mouth judges, or cops who stop you on the road.
  #34  
Old 04-07-2018, 4:34 AM
nedro nedro is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,386
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Better to keep a friend than extract the hundred.
But I'll say this one time.
There are many who consider a hand shake as stronger than a written contract when it comes to personal responsibility and genuine measure of a person's integrity.
__________________
Here in California; Law abiding Citizens are simply Useful Idiots and Criminals are a Protected Species.
<nedro>

Last edited by nedro; 04-07-2018 at 12:45 PM..
  #35  
Old 04-08-2018, 12:21 PM
MEGSDAD's Avatar
MEGSDAD MEGSDAD is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 142
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieB View Post
THIS THREAD IS POSTED IN THE WOMEN'S FORUM. GENTLEMEN ARE INVITED TO RESPOND IF THEY ARE CIVIL. IF NOT, PLEASE DON'T. THE WOMEN'S FORUM HAS RULES.



Well, for those of you following this thread, adding a lot of great information, I have to tell you that my "friend" welched. Wouldn't agree on the terms of the bet, started diversions and side discussions, did everything you can name to wriggle out of it. Implied that there was something wrong with me because I was willing to objectively prove a FACT, not an opinion. I think she actually heard this on the radio...

So, no $100 and maybe not so much a friend either. (sigh...)

But the REAL ISSUE here is that THE PUBLIC DOES NOT KNOW that an AR-15 style weapon IS NO DIFFERENT than any other SEMI AUTO RIFLE OF THE SAME CALIBER. For instance my .223 semi auto Ruger Mini 14. That will take a 30 round mag, (not in California and I don't have one). But they exist. The public thinks AR-15 types are somehow more lethal (because they are black and scary looking?). So, really, it's time to educate people. That's what I was trying to do, educate my friend, but I just FAILED.
Sometimes I think it's unwise to "educate" the anti crowd. If they knew the mini 14 was the same as the AR, except for cosmetics, they'd want to ban that too.
  #36  
Old 04-09-2018, 5:48 AM
Sam Adams Sam Adams is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hill Country, Texas
Posts: 338
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEGSDAD View Post
Sometimes I think it's unwise to "educate" the anti crowd. If they knew the mini 14 was the same as the AR, except for cosmetics, they'd want to ban that too.
That day is fast approaching. All semi's are next.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
  #37  
Old 04-09-2018, 11:47 AM
tomk556 tomk556 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 440
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
It’s the flux capacitor in AR 15 that make the bullets go faster.
FUD. I mean fine, yes, for the five who can afford FC-boosted rounds, but why bother when you can get a quart of Cheetah blood on amazon for $8 bucks? Work smart, not hard.
  #38  
Old 04-09-2018, 12:32 PM
ARDude's Avatar
ARDude ARDude is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Retired in Northridge, Ca
Posts: 1,536
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieB View Post
I'm not getting paid. It was a handshake bet, and my friend backed out. Even though she KNOWS I never bet unless I'm sure, and I either collect or pay up. Funny, you hang out with people for years and think you know them...
Just because you and your friend don't agree....you can still be friends. I have friends and relatives that think the same way your friend does. We still talk, hang out ect.

p.s. Tell your friend you found out that you can shoot around corners now....tell him/her you saw it in a movie.
  #39  
Old 04-14-2018, 5:11 AM
BonnieB's Avatar
BonnieB BonnieB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,990
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

I don't need the hundred, and I do need my BFF. So, no more bets with her. It's not worth the hassle. But thanks to everybody who contributed to this thread, I learned a lot.

It's funny. The really SMART people I know, start backing away from me when I casually say "Well, I gotta hundred that says...". Because they know I never bet unless I'm sure.
__________________
WHAT I HAVE LEARNED SO FAR, MOSTLY THE HARD WAY
• Do only safe sex. Never have sex with someone crazier than you are.
• Don't marry or move in together before you're both at least 25.
• Don't have children until you're married five years or at least age 30.
• Put 10% of your salary into savings every month no matter how broke you are.
• Don't ever screw around with the IRS.
• Keep a handgun on your bedside table.
• Don't smart-mouth judges, or cops who stop you on the road.

Last edited by BonnieB; 04-14-2018 at 5:14 AM..
  #40  
Old 04-14-2018, 7:55 AM
Sailormilan2 Sailormilan2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Posts: 2,325
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Bonnie, here is a picture that might help. 4 loaded cartridges. From left to right, the 8mm Mauser, 30-06 Gov't, .308 Win(aka 7.62x51 NATO), and the .223 Rem(aka 5.56 NATO/AR15 round).
The 8mm Mauser was the German military round(and others) from about 1891 to 1945. It was mounted on everything, and used to shoot down hundreds of airplanes. Definitely a killing round.
The 30-06 Gov't was the US military round from 1906 to about the 1970s. It was mounted on everything, and was used to shoot down hundreds of airplanes. Definitely a killing round, and one of the most common hunting rounds in the US today. There are thousands of semi auto rifles in this caliber in the US today.
The .308 Win/7.62NATO replaced the 30-06 Gov't and while it wasn't used to shoot down airplanes it was basically ithe 30-06's equivalent. It was used as the US Military round from the 1950s to today. Definitely a killing round. There are thousands of semi auto rifles in this caliber in the US today.
Finally the .223 Rem/5.56NATO. Introduced in the early 60s and used to today. It is nothing but a glorified squirrel, or varmint, shooting round. In some states it is not legal to hunt deer with.
It was never used for anything major. Ie. Shooting down planes, or heavy machine gun fire. In fact, it was first issued to the Air Police who guarded USAF planes because if the bullet missed its intended target and hit a plane it wouldn't do much damage.
The US Army got it from the Air Police and issued it, because in addition to it being light weight and being able to carry lots of ammo, the round did not kill as well as the others. In fact, in the Army mind, it is preferable to wound a man, rather than kill him. It takes 3-4 people to care for a wounded man, and ties up assets. A dead man requires nobody to care for them.
With today's shorter barreled guns, and heavier bullets that the US military now issues, the bullet isn't traveling much faster than those of the bigger rounds. The bigger rounds can be loaded with bullets that shoot faster than that of the .223/5.56, and with their bigger bullets they diffinately do more damage than the little bullet.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20180414_083022_resized.jpg (59.0 KB, 15 views)
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:58 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.