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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-28-2013, 3:47 PM
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Default I'm getting a gun trust!

You should too. Look what you can get in CA!!! It's legal!!! Do it before Feinstein gets her wish!

http://californiaguntrusts.com/
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The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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Old 02-28-2013, 3:50 PM
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A good idea, but not an ultimate solution. Gun trusts do nothing against laws that ban possession.
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Old 02-28-2013, 4:23 PM
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Spam. Gun related, but spam.
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Old 02-28-2013, 4:30 PM
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Yes, but I think it is not spam generated by the website owners but the individual OP
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Old 02-28-2013, 4:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC9696 View Post
You should too. Look what you can get in CA!!! It's legal!!! Do it before Feinstein gets her wish!

http://californiaguntrusts.com/
I was advised by an attorney that a gun trust does not possess any 2nd Amendment rights, such as an individual would possess.

Bottom line - your "gun trust" does not have a right to keep and bear arms. Any arms it owns can be taken if the powers that be deem it advisable. Your personal right to keep and bear arms does not extend to an abstract entity such as a corporation or a trust.

Just food for thought. Probably not an issue unless it comes to an actual court case. If that happens though, you'll have to rely on things such as contract law and other statutes... the 2nd Amendment will not apply as a claim of recourse.
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Old 02-28-2013, 4:43 PM
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Ive actually been thinking about the gun trust thing so i can make sure my firearms get passed down to my son. how would a trust be affected with these new law proprosals?

I know for AOW's in CA the trusts were almost a requirement but Im not planning on any AOWs...yet...
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Old 02-28-2013, 4:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kauaibuilt View Post
Ive actually been thinking about the gun trust thing so i can make sure my firearms get passed down to my son. how would a trust be affected with these new law proprosals?

I know for AOW's in CA the trusts were almost a requirement but Im not planning on any AOWs...yet...
Short answer according to the atty I spoke to...it won't. This is why i am doing it. I see tranfer issues coming here in Commiefornia.
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2013, 5:18 PM
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Yes, but I think it is not spam generated by the website owners but the individual OP
Sure, but is it unsolicited?
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Old 02-28-2013, 6:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
I was advised by an attorney that a gun trust does not possess any 2nd Amendment rights, such as an individual would possess.

Bottom line - your "gun trust" does not have a right to keep and bear arms. Any arms it owns can be taken if the powers that be deem it advisable. Your personal right to keep and bear arms does not extend to an abstract entity such as a corporation or a trust.

Just food for thought. Probably not an issue unless it comes to an actual court case. If that happens though, you'll have to rely on things such as contract law and other statutes... the 2nd Amendment will not apply as a claim of recourse.
Corporations have first amendment rights now. Why not second?
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  #10  
Old 02-28-2013, 11:02 PM
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This isn't spam...just sharing the info I discovered today.
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Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

The U.S. city with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, Washington, D.C., has the highest murder rate at 24 per 100,000.
The state with the most unrestrictive gun regulations, Vermont, has the lowest murder rate at 0.48 per 100,000.
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  #11  
Old 02-28-2013, 11:05 PM
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We're u the guy at OC Armory?
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by WAMO556 View Post
Voting for Donald Trump is the protest vote against: Keynesian economics, Neocon wars, exporting jobs, open borders, Washington criminal cartel, too big to fail banks and too big to jail pols and banksters.

Cutting off foreign aid to EVERY country and dismantling the police/surveillance state!

Umm yeah!!!!!
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:08 PM
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Should there be a CGF logo on his page? Is he sanctioned or backed by CGF?

It sounds too good to be true.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:09 PM
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From the short conversation I had with an NFA trust attorney… in a nutshell it’s kind of pointless until you plan to own AOW or NFA items…

I called with the idea of adding things like an AR to the trust, but I was told it can’t be done because it is not an NFA item and would be part of the estate…

Then again I may have not completely understood everything that we spoke about. If you are interested in one or to see if its right for you, you should probably speak to one yourself…
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:10 PM
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A gun trust is a good idea if lets say my Dad wanted to pass his firearms to me, and me to my unborn son/daughter? and it won't be effected by any future legislation? If that is the case something too look into.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:14 PM
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I don’t think that’s how it works…

The way I understood it… One of the reasons to have one for things like NFA items is that in the event of you passing, you don’t turn your wife or kids into instant felons for being in possession of the NFA items. Your wife/kids would be part of that trust as well…

I don’t think it’s going to protect you from DiFi because that’s the reason I called lol.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
From the short conversation I had with an NFA trust attorney… in a nutshell it’s kind of pointless until you plan to own AOW or NFA items…

I called with the idea of adding things like an AR to the trust, but I was told it can’t be done because it is not an NFA item and would be part of the estate…

Then again I may have not completely understood everything that we spoke about. If you are interested in one or to see if its right for you, you should probably speak to one yourself…
Two attorneys I spoke to about the situation advised the same thing. You CANNOT put your "assault weapon" in a gun trust and pass it down generations.

Here is part of the written response I got from one lawyer:

"There is currently not a way to transfer most non-NFA items into a trust in CA. This means that most firearms can't even be owned in trust, in this state. It has to do with an error in how the DROS system is set up, and people on our end are working to get the state DOJ to change it.

We are not certain how the laws will change, and I can't really make any predictions about whether or not a trust would even be helpful with respect to new laws."
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  #18  
Old 02-28-2013, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rootuser View Post
"There is currently not a way to transfer most non-NFA items into a trust in CA. This means that most firearms can't even be owned in trust, in this state. It has to do with an error in how the DROS system is set up, and people on our end are working to get the state DOJ to change it.

We are not certain how the laws will change, and I can't really make any predictions about whether or not a trust would even be helpful with respect to new laws."
Yup… I walked away with pretty much the same news…

From my conversation it didn’t sound like an NFA trust was for me, as it has little to no benefit.

After I started asking more complex questions… he kindly and promptly pointed out those questions would require billable time… lawyers lol…
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:19 AM
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I don't know anything about trusts and I hate to bring up Dorner, but is what's being advertised in the OP the same thing Dorner talked about in his manifesto? If you haven't read it, this is a benign snippet:

Quote:
Unfortunately, are you aware that I obtained class III weapons (suppressors) without a background check thru NICS or DROS completely LEGALLY several times? I was able to use a trust account that I created on quicken will maker and a $10 notary charge at a mailbox etc. to obtain them legally


Is there more than one kind of trust?
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:23 AM
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The whole Dorner class III weapons trust claim, was it ever proved he actually did this? I read that as a grain of salt being the source and context...
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:26 AM
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The whole Dorner class III weapons trust claim, was it ever proved he actually did this? I read that as a grain of salt being the source and context...
I'm don't know. But, let's say he did. Would that be the same type of trust as in the OP?

(I'm just using his as a reference since I don't know anything about trusts.)

.

Last edited by Doheny; 03-01-2013 at 12:49 AM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 03-01-2013, 7:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
I'm don't know. But, let's say he did. Would that be the same type of trust as in the OP?

(I'm just using his as a reference since I don't know anything about trusts.)

.
yes, it is the same type of trust, a "revocable living trust". it appears that Dorner just used Quicken willmaker to make a basic RLT that he used for his firearms purchases whereas the OP is talking about a lawyer-drafted RLT that has specific firearms wording in the trust to help keep the trustees legal, both for the current trustee and for an successor trustees. But in the end, both the quicken trust and a "gun trust" do the same thing and both have been used to legally purchase NFA firearms.
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Old 03-01-2013, 4:55 PM
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There is a lot of bad information in the preceding posts, some of it apparently spread by attorneys who haven't given it enough thought.

No, a gun trust will not help you with current assault weapons. Yes, it may possibly be helpful with firearms classified as assault weapons in the future, if it contains dynasty provisions. Likelihood of success may be higher if it's irrevocable at inception.

No, trusts are not entities under CA law. However, the key is that they ARE under the NFA and the gunowner control crowd has tipped its hand - they want all firearms under the NFA.

And a properly drafted gun trust can help with the NFA (whether the guns are NFA now or not).

The number of gundocx lawyers in CA is growing:
http://www.gundocxlawyers.com/lawyer-profiles/
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