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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#203
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Was Gura born into this world as an excellent 2A litigator? Was he the only one? It's a sad day if there will never be another one.
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John -- bitter gun owner. All opinions expressed here are my own unless I say otherwise. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. |
#205
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But IIRC, Gura/SAF have not been behind all the litigation. I think that the primary litigator in Gray's case has not been Gura/SAF. Gray has used another competent attorney who was appropriate to the case and Gura has been added on to facilitate any SCOTUS litigation and to assist on the case to a limited degree. Thing is, at this point in time the volume of appropriately timed and sequenced 2A litigation is actually pretty small. If you go far outside the current framework developed by the strategists/litigators who developed that framework you have a very high probability of getting something you really shouldn't want. I remember when my house was being built. It was being built by the developer/contractor but I went by to see what was happening virtually every day. One day I found that the framers had done a very good job of putting in a wall between the hallway and the master bedroom. Very competently done - but there was supposed to be a door there if there was to actually be access to the bedroom! Another time I came by and discovered they were putting in a chimney where the gas fireplace was going to go! The chimney would have cost them more money and made the roof more complex than I wanted there. They did a good job, but it was the wrong job. Right now I think the litigation is like that. You need someone who knows exactly what has to go where in order to make sure everything is sequenced and structured properly. You let competent folk who don't understand the plan working without supervision and they'll do a very good job of making our rights inaccessible. So you coordinate with Gura/SAF even if they don't do the litigating at the district and circuit levels. But about the only 2A litigators who ought to be touching the SCOTUS right now are Gura and (maybe) Clement. I like Gura, but Clement has an amazing amount of SCOTUS litigation so maybe there is some advantage to his arguing at that level - but I'd want him closely coordinating with Gura.
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CGN's token life-long teetotaling vegetarian. Don't consider anything I post as advice or as anything more than opinion (if even that). |
#207
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I completely agree with you. And Alan Gura is the guy who should be doing the big stuff. It really is amazing 2 guys are shaping a entire body of law. I am talking about building the next generation. The ACLU has attorneys that have been groomed to replace the old guard. The Institute for Justice is doing amazing work for Libertarianism and by building a coalition via internshps, workshops, etc. they are ensuring that their particular causes will be fought on long after the original attorneys retire. I'm not suggesting that is Kilmer or Gura's job. I am suggesting that 50 years from now a libertarian style ACLU that encompasses gun rights would be something amazing to have.
I think you guys are doing a amazing job as to the litigation and it is very well thought out. I am just referring to setting something up for the future. I am in no shape way or form critizing your very well thought out efforts. And i think it is amazing what you have done with a very small staff compared to say the ACLU. I was just making a observation that you/d have law students jumping at the opportunity to work for free for you guys. I'm sorry if I sounded critical. It was not meant to be just aspirational. Last edited by wolfwood; 12-05-2012 at 3:21 PM.. |
#208
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Interestingly enough, a year or two ago CGF was (IIRC) exploring the idea of providing some sort of continuing education program for lawyers. Of course it was to be dealing with 2A litigation.
I do not know what came of that, but it seemed to me that they were thinking along the same lines as you are.
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CGN's token life-long teetotaling vegetarian. Don't consider anything I post as advice or as anything more than opinion (if even that). |
#209
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A well thought out strategy of any type has both a contingency plan and a continuity plan. In this case, the contingency plan might be about what to do when undesired litigation by other parties that doesn't follow "your plan" occurs. The continuity plan could be about what to do when Gura (God forbid) gets hit by a bus. In either case, wringing your hands about something that comes to pass that you can't control doesn't affect the outcome in your favor. Planning for the unlikely might ensure success.
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Last edited by moleculo; 12-05-2012 at 10:34 PM.. |
#210
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Just as what happened after Brown v Board of Education, Miranda, etc. Which is why I think that KCBrown is just a tad too pessimistic. The rest of what you've posted is good also. The Raisuli
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"Ignorance is a steep hill with perilous rocks at the bottom" WTB: 9mm cylinder for Taurus Mod. 85 |
#211
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Will the arguments be posted in audio form? I have been following CGF and 2AF on twitter, but would love to hear the full arguments.
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#214
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They are arguing the third case already(Baker). Peruta went ok(from what I could tell), but Gura killed it on Richards. Yolo was making stuff up as they went along...it was pretty sad.
I really hope we will be able to listen to the arguments.
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#216
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Could be as soon as tomorrow or Monday if it becomes available.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#217
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Lots of fail here lol. |
#219
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Duh, the audio is up. And you, and hoffmang, and Gray Peterson, were wrong. lol.
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#221
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Interestingly, I posited that 12031 needed to be facially challenged over a year ago, a position that was met with derision on this forrum. Alan Gura saw the light and in fact stated that the unconstitutional discretion granted to sheriffs actually flows from that statute, and is thereby the cause. just sayin....
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#222
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Treat every stressful situation like a dog. If you can't eat it, play with it, or hump it ... PISS ON IT, and walk away. |
#223
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This link to the audio of today's 9th Circuit oral argument worked better for me.
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/media/vi..._id=0000010111
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Better Way to Search CalGuns - https://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=0...78:pzxbzjzh1zk CA Bill Search - https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov California Rifle and Pistol Association - http://crpa.org/ Sacramento County Sheriff Concealed Carry Info - Search 'Concealed Weapons Permit Information Sacramento' Second Amendment Foundation - http://www.saf.org Animated US Map Showing Progress of Concealed Carry Laws 1986 to 2021 http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.php |
#224
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Here's all 3 (courtesy of the other thread on calguns):
Edward Peruta, et al. v. County of San Diego, et al. found here: http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...6/10-56971.wma Christopher Baker v. Louis Kealoha, et al. found here: http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...6/12-16258.wma Adam Richards, et al. v. Ed Prieto, et al. found here: http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...6/11-16255.wma
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WTB: multiautomatic ghost gun with a .30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. Must include shoulder thing that goes up. Memberships/Affiliations: CERT, ARRL ARES, NRA Patron Member, HRC, CGN/CGSSA, Cal-FFL |
#225
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So, according to that Prieto lawyer, I can open carry to my hearts content in my own yard, front or back, fence or now fence, and I'll be in compliance?
Did I miss something or was he just spouting off BS in an attempt to deflect from the real issue?
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Support CalGuns by purchasing stuff through this Amazon link: http://www.shop42a.com |
#226
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Can anyone host these as mp3s?
First I have to miss the orals due to a last minute work travel, now I'm stuck on the road with a POS Kimble fire that wont play WMAs. Help!
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www.christopherjhoffman.com The Second Amendment is the one right that is so fundamental that the inability to exercise it, should the need arise, would render all other rights null and void. Dead people have no rights. Magna est veritas et praevalebit |
#227
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*Subject to exceptions which he does not articulate.
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Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat “Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.” Friedrich Nietzsche |
#228
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Don't forget you can LOC in your car from your home to the range.
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Treat every stressful situation like a dog. If you can't eat it, play with it, or hump it ... PISS ON IT, and walk away. |
#229
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"Look, everyone can carry a gun while naked in their bathroom listening to Boston's Third Stage, AND to and from the toilet. I don't see why any of us are here!!!"
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NRA Endowment Member SAF Defender's Club |
#231
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www.christopherjhoffman.com The Second Amendment is the one right that is so fundamental that the inability to exercise it, should the need arise, would render all other rights null and void. Dead people have no rights. Magna est veritas et praevalebit |
#232
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After listening to the oral arguments in both Peruta v. San Diego and Richards v. Prieto, it is my lay view that the arguments of both of the county counsels were woefully weak and incredibly inadequate.
In particular, the counsel for San Diego County was absolutely pounded by the justices and many flaws in his reasoning for supporting the current licensing policies of Sheriff Gore were exposed. In both cases it seemed, again only in my lay view, that these Sheriffs are simply trying to secure there rights to issue concealed carry permits to whoever they care about with zero accountability. I'm hoping, and I am actually a little more optimistic now after listening to these arguments, that we have a shot at overturning these policies. |
#233
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continued to do with other extraconstitutional functions it performs routinely to this day. Cap
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#234
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Further, the panel never called into question whether the state could ban all types of OC - they in fact seemed fine with it. -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#235
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Of course. The open carry ban wasn't what was being challenged. If they brought that in, it would muddle what the cases were be about. The cases were challenging their right to carry the only (sort of) legal way left, which was the concealed carry permit route. To bring in if open carry bans were allowed would only serve to derail the conversation. |
#236
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Also, if you want to enter a bar or restaurant, you only need to unload. No mention of the fact that both unloaded open carry and unloaded concealed carry are illegal.
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Nationwide Master List of Current 2A Cases, courtesy of Al Norris @ TFL. Reloading Clubs: SF, East Bay Case Status: Peña v. Cid (Handgun Roster). SF v. 44Mag (Mag Parts Kits). Bauer v. Harris (DROS Fees). Davis v. LA (CCW policy). Jackson v. SF (Ammo/Storage). Teixeira (FFL Zoning). First Unitarian v. NSA (Privacy). Silvester (Waiting Period). Schoepf (DROS Delay). Haynie (AW ban). SFVPOA v. SF (10+ mag possession ban). Bear in Public: Drake (3CA); Moore (7CA); Richards, Peruta, McKay (9CA). |
#237
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-Brandon
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Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
#238
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-Brandon
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Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
#239
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What is the point of registering or listing the firearm you intend to carry?
Look, you gave me a permit, you either trust my judgement or you don't. What does it matter the one I chose to carry each day. This is just more burden for the citizen to carry just to exercise his 2A right. Give me the permit, I'll carry what I feel like I need to carry for the day. Do I need to list ever gun I may carry? Ridiculous! I carried for 16 years, never an issue, never any requirement to carry a specific gun. Never a problem. Excessive regulation. .
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"one test is worth a thousand opinions". |
#240
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Understand that I agree with you that they needn't know what I carry. What's more, I don't think you should have to have a permit to carry at all. If you aren't prohibited you should be able to carry.
But there is a certain logic to identifying what you carry. If the sheriff sees that you are planning to carry a .50 caliber handgun he's probably gonna figure you've got a screw loose since they're just generally not a great self-defense weapon. I'm not saying that justifies the requirement. But I remember being told a few years ago that if I tried to apply for a carry license and listed a .44 Magnum or .50 caliber pistol that my application would probably be denied.
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CGN's token life-long teetotaling vegetarian. Don't consider anything I post as advice or as anything more than opinion (if even that). |
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