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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 02-10-2018, 9:35 PM
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Has anyone VOLREG an AR pistol?
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  #162  
Old 02-11-2018, 4:52 AM
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Has anyone VOLREG an AR pistol?
Or an AK pistol?
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  #163  
Old 02-11-2018, 11:44 AM
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Has anyone VOLREG an AR pistol?
I did, using my own serial number, back in September, two days before deploying to Qatar. Once the wife received the letter in the mail saying they accepted it I attempted to register it as a RAW, it's still "in progress" as every time they tell me that I have to engrave one of their serial numbers on it, I reply by telling them that I can't due to being on the other side of the planet. I've also became apart of the Holt case suing them over all this nonsense.

I told the DOJ lackey in one message that I will gladly engrave their serial on it provided that they accept the late changes and process the RAW application when I get home, some time in August. We shall see what happens.
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  #164  
Old 02-11-2018, 3:11 PM
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Well if you bought a engraved 80% receiver, from 80% Arms for example, they have an FFL, (not sure what kind though) it would seem to me that they would not be allowed to engrave to any other standards, than the regulations issued pursuant to 18 USC Chapter 44. It's the assigned to it part that's probably the problem.

ETA: the below post is what got me thinking about this, I'm sure this isn't what thorium meant by "professionally" serialized though.
I got my 80% from Tactical Machining. They actually offer the option to engrave to 0.001" or 0.003" (ATF) depth. Not sure why anyone would get the 0.001".

And yeah... Tactical Machining also manufactures/sells 100% receivers, so they must have the appropriate FFL, right?. So an FFL issued the serial on my 80%, and it's therefore exempt from volreg. And that's as far as I feel obligated to pursue it.
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  #165  
Old 02-11-2018, 3:17 PM
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I got my 80% from Tactical Machining. They actually offer the option to engrave to 0.001" or 0.003" (ATF) depth. Not sure why anyone would get the 0.001".

And yeah... Tactical Machining also manufactures/sells 100% receivers, so they must have the appropriate FFL, right?. So an FFL issued the serial on my 80%, and it's therefore exempt from volreg. And that's as far as I feel obligated to pursue it.
I think most saying the are assuming it went through dros. As an 80 it didn't. I would doubt you could use their FFL as an exemption. There are a few 80s that have engraving on them, could we assume "mano lobe" is a serial number?
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  #166  
Old 02-11-2018, 3:39 PM
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I am assuming that even though an 80% AR lower could be volreg'd, the same cannot be said for an 80% handgun frame without it actually being finished into a completed single shot firearm, correct? If we who have those were to have them serialized with dated proof (say, a receipt from an engraver) prior to July 1, and not be able to complete said firearm, will the DOJ accept that, or are we going to be stuck requesting one from the state?
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  #167  
Old 02-11-2018, 11:26 PM
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I am assuming that even though an 80% AR lower could be volreg'd, the same cannot be said for an 80% handgun frame without it actually being finished into a completed single shot firearm, correct? If we who have those were to have them serialized with dated proof (say, a receipt from an engraver) prior to July 1, and not be able to complete said firearm, will the DOJ accept that, or are we going to be stuck requesting one from the state?
The proposed rule change, its not official, means all 80's built prior to July 1 have to be registered along with the bs serials (your own by 6/30, or DOJ's 7/1 and beyond)
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  #168  
Old 02-11-2018, 11:37 PM
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I also agree with you on the exemption on pre 2014. All long gun had no registration. Also anything that was built and had a serial # before that date is no different then any long gun. If it was not a import with no import marks how can they identify the difference. There was also manufacture NDS Builds out there as well as nds home builds as well from people who bought 100% receivers. I bought Polish under folder from Ammo Bros pre 2014 that has a NDS receiver.


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This law is in direct conflict with ATF rules and the previous California law. As worded, It seems to be a defacto registration to firearms made before 2014.( when registration wasn't necessary. Their need s to be an exemption to any firearm built before 01/01/2014. Otherwise they could interpret the law to apply to any firearm that isn't currently registered and in their system. This is just a money and power grab by the DOJ. Im t sure if anyone is currently challenging this, but they better get on it before it is set in stone.
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  #169  
Old 02-12-2018, 6:57 AM
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The proposed rule change, its not official, means all 80's built prior to July 1 have to be registered along with the bs serials (your own by 6/30, or DOJ's 7/1 and beyond)
I get that, but what I am asking is this. I found out through this thread, that an 80% rifle receiver can be volreg'd as a rifle as the milled receiver ONLY, not being a complete rifle yet. What I am questioning is whether or not the same can be done with a handgun frame (or AR pistol for that matter), being volreg'd prior to being completed, so we can have our own number on it. Or will it be required to be completed before any registration can take place so they can verify it is single shot?
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  #170  
Old 02-12-2018, 7:07 AM
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I did, using my own serial number, back in September, two days before deploying to Qatar. Once the wife received the letter in the mail saying they accepted it I attempted to register it as a RAW, it's still "in progress" as every time they tell me that I have to engrave one of their serial numbers on it, I reply by telling them that I can't due to being on the other side of the planet. I've also became apart of the Holt case suing them over all this nonsense.

I told the DOJ lackey in one message that I will gladly engrave their serial on it provided that they accept the late changes and process the RAW application when I get home, some time in August. We shall see what happens.
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  #171  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:06 PM
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I want to register via CFARS site but unsure what to check. I have to 80% completed and serialized with name city state mod and serial number. Should I choose pistol semi automatic? Mine was built as a single shot AR pistol from the ground up and later converted to a semi auto AR pistol and the model says: TS15-PISTOL engraved. Thanks.
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  #172  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:10 PM
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I want to register via CFARS site but unsure what to check. I have to 80% completed and serialized with name city state mod and serial number. Should I choose pistol semi automatic? Mine was built as a single shot AR pistol from the ground up and later converted to a semi auto AR pistol and the model says: TS15-PISTOL engraved. Thanks.
You'd have to register as a RAW and go through their assigned serial process. No way to go featureless, so it would need to be converted to a single shot manual action to be legal to volreg.
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  #173  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:12 PM
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Default DOJ Releases AB-857 Ghost Gun Regs

What about mag lock? I was to register as Firearms Ownership Report so I own the receiver and serial number but not register as RAW since you canít make a pistol featureless. I have a mag lock for it. Just making sure. Thanks.


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Last edited by Zyralius; 02-13-2018 at 12:14 PM..
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  #174  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:14 PM
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What about mag lock?


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I am not an expert on pistols, but it's my understanding you cannot have a semi auto that is fed from a magazine that is housed outside the pistol grip. I might be wrong, but I also think the mag needs to be fixed. Maybe someone can elaborate on that.

No real way to retain semi auto though without going through RAW and an assigned serial.
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  #175  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:17 PM
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I am not an expert on pistols, but it's my understanding you cannot have a semi auto that is fed from a magazine that is housed outside the pistol grip. I might be wrong, but I also think the mag needs to be fixed. Maybe someone can elaborate on that.

No real way to retain semi auto though without going through RAW and an assigned serial.
Yeah I am unsure some people said they registered their receivers only but I donít see that option on the CFARS drop down menu. Either pistol, rifle shotgun/rifle combo or shotgun only. All semi auto category. But printing out the VolReg doesnít show receiver but can put single shot.
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  #176  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:21 PM
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Yeah I am unsure some people said they registered their receivers only but I don’t see that option on the CFARS drop down menu. Either pistol, rifle shotgun/rifle combo or shotgun only. All semi auto category. But printing out the VolReg doesn’t show receiver but can put single shot.
Volreg has pistol, rifle, rifle shotgun combo, and shotgun. They have to go in as they are intended to be built or how they were built. You could register it as a pistol then build it into a manual action fixed mag single shot, you could even do that years from now. But it has to be what you intend or have already built as. You could disassemble it from a AW status, then register the receiver as a pistol through volreg with the intention of building it into a legal pistol later.

If you go pistol then there is a vague possibility of converting to a rifle in the future, as there is no law saying you can't put on a 16" barrel and put a stock on it. Going from rifle to pistol is impossible and a felony. Personally, I don't ever do the pistol to rifle thing out of ambiguity concerns.
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  #177  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:24 PM
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Volreg has pistol, rifle, rifle shotgun combo, and shotgun. They have to go in as they are intended to be built or how they were built. You could register it as a pistol then build it into a manual action fixed mag single shot, you could even do that years from now. But it has to be what you intend or have already built as.



If you go pistol then there is a vague possibility of converting to a rifle in the future, as there is no law saying you can't put on a 16" barrel and put a stock on it. Going from rifle to pistol is impossible and a felony. Personally, I don't ever do the pistol to rifle thing out of ambiguity concerns.


Make sense. I think I will choose pistol semi auto. I have pictures of my receiver plus itís engraved MOD: 15-PISTOL on the side so I wonít and canít register and build as rifle anyhow. I just was to VolReg my receiver and serial number. Just making sure I pick the right drop down selections so I donít incriminate myself and go to jail. Thanks for the help.


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  #178  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:32 PM
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Make sense. I think I will choose pistol semi auto. I have pictures of my receiver plus itís engraved MOD: 15-PISTOL on the side so I wonít and canít register and build as rifle anyhow. I just was to VolReg my receiver and serial number. Just making sure I pick the right drop down selections so I donít incriminate myself and go to jail. Thanks for the help.


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Remember though, it cannot remain a semi-auto after July 1st 2018. That's when any semi auto pistol that does not have a magazine that feeds through the actual pistol grip (i.e. a standard pistol) will become a felony to posses without it being a registered assault weapon.

If you volreg as semi auto pistol now probably no problem, but then you have to convert it to manual action, fixed mag, single shot.
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  #179  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:34 PM
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Remember though, it cannot remain a semi-auto after July 1st 2018. That's when any semi auto pistol that does not have a magazine that feeds through the actual pistol grip (i.e. a standard pistol) will become a felony to posses without it being a registered assault weapon.



If you volreg as semi auto pistol now probably no problem, but then you have to convert it to manual action, fixed mag, single shot.


Correct and understood.


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  #180  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:38 PM
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Also before I forget there is a threaded barrel issue too. The member on Calguns that is an absolute expert on current AR pistol builds is Quiet, maybe you could PM him.
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  #181  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:47 PM
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Volreg has pistol, rifle, rifle shotgun combo, and shotgun. They have to go in as they are intended to be built or how they were built. You could register it as a pistol then build it into a manual action fixed mag single shot, you could even do that years from now. But it has to be what you intend or have already built as. You could disassemble it from a AW status, then register the receiver as a pistol through volreg with the intention of building it into a legal pistol later.

If you go pistol then there is a vague possibility of converting to a rifle in the future, as there is no law saying you can't put on a 16" barrel and put a stock on it. Going from rifle to pistol is impossible and a felony. Personally, I don't ever do the pistol to rifle thing out of ambiguity concerns.


Wow I refreshed the glitchy site and now there is pistol, rifle, shotgun, shotgun/rifle then semi, bolt, lever, single shot, double barrel, revolver and etc and also as pistol just a frame or rifle as receiver if no they want barrel length and caliber for rifle. Now Iím not sure what selection I should choose. Any help would be great.


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  #182  
Old 02-13-2018, 1:11 PM
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Wow I refreshed the glitchy site and now there is pistol, rifle, shotgun, shotgun/rifle then semi, bolt, lever, single shot, double barrel, revolver and etc and also as pistol just a frame or rifle as receiver if no they want barrel length and caliber for rifle. Now Iím not sure what selection I should choose. Any help would be great.


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It really doesn't matter much. You could choose to do it as a semi as it is now, then convert later. You could choose to register as a single shot. You have to end up in the same place on July 1st 2018 to be legal.

If you are unsure of how to build it or convert it into a legal format then just register as a frame with the intent of building it into a legal config in the future. You could disassemble the pistol and volreg as a frame and not reassemble it until you are sure of the post July 1st 2018.

I'd say steering clear of the rifle status is good because you can never ever go rifle to pistol.
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  #183  
Old 02-13-2018, 1:13 PM
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It really doesn't matter much. You could choose to do it as a semi as it is now, then convert later. You could choose to register as a single shot. You have to end up in the same place on July 1st 2018 to be legal.



If you are unsure of how to build it or convert it into a legal format then just register as a frame with the intent of building it into a legal config in the future. You could disassemble the pistol and volreg as a frame and not reassemble it until you are sure of the post July 1st 2018.



I'd say steering clear of the rifle status is good because you can never ever go rifle to pistol.


Makes sense. Thank you.


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  #184  
Old 02-13-2018, 1:23 PM
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Remember though, it cannot remain a semi-auto after July 1st 2018. That's when any semi auto pistol that does not have a magazine that feeds through the actual pistol grip (i.e. a standard pistol) will become a felony to posses without it being a registered assault weapon.

If you volreg as semi auto pistol now probably no problem, but then you have to convert it to manual action, fixed mag, single shot.
Is that correct? I was under the assumption that since an AR pistol cannot be made featureless, you have to either fixed mag it or register as an AW but can remain in semi-auto.

Sorry if I missed it in the proposed regulations.
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  #185  
Old 02-13-2018, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Zyralius View Post
I want to register via CFARS site but unsure what to check. I have to 80% completed and serialized with name city state mod and serial number. Should I choose pistol semi automatic? Mine was built as a single shot AR pistol from the ground up and later converted to a semi auto AR pistol and the model says: TS15-PISTOL engraved. Thanks.
Use the VolReg process NOT the BBAW registration process. If it was legally built under SSE1 (pre-2014) or SSE2 (pre-2016) then you should VolReg it as semi-auto and indicate in the notes that it was legally built as a Single Shot Exemption under SSEx.

There has been some discussion about the recent change to the law (2016?) pertaining to "Manufacturing" so even SSE2 converted to semi-auto has been debated as a gray area.

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You'd have to register as a RAW and go through their assigned serial process. No way to go featureless, so it would need to be converted to a single shot manual action to be legal to volreg.
Not true IF manufactured as Single Shot Exemption see above.

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I am not an expert on pistols, but it's my understanding you cannot have a semi auto that is fed from a magazine that is housed outside the pistol grip. I might be wrong, but I also think the mag needs to be fixed. Maybe someone can elaborate on that.

No real way to retain semi auto though without going through RAW and an assigned serial.
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Remember though, it cannot remain a semi-auto after July 1st 2018. That's when any semi auto pistol that does not have a magazine that feeds through the actual pistol grip (i.e. a standard pistol) will become a felony to posses without it being a registered assault weapon.

If you volreg as semi auto pistol now probably no problem, but then you have to convert it to manual action, fixed mag, single shot.
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Also before I forget there is a threaded barrel issue too. The member on Calguns that is an absolute expert on current AR pistol builds is Quiet, maybe you could PM him.

Not true see above, and 30515 reads:

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(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
So, a semi-auto handgun (aka pistol) with a fixed magazine (regardless of location) that holds 10 rounds or less IS NOT an AW regardless of features including a threaded barrel.

I have not VoReg'd my two AR Pistols manufactured under SSE1 in 2013 as of yet. They are now fixed magazine and I am still debating whether to do so or do something else with them. The problem with AB-857 and handguns is that they become a possible felony. I would like to see a little more guidance with respect to properly marked (per ATF requirements) firearms that are not in the system before I decide what to do with them.
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  #186  
Old 02-13-2018, 5:41 PM
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I have not VoReg'd my two AR Pistols manufactured under SSE1 in 2013 as of yet. They are now fixed magazine and I am still debating whether to do so or do something else with them. The problem with AB-857 and handguns is that they become a possible felony. I would like to see a little more guidance with respect to properly marked (per ATF requirements) firearms that are not in the system before I decide what to do with them.
The new 857 regs say that they mean all home built guns since 1968. The idea that some were "properly marked" per ATF rules and are thus exempt to me is a real stretch. I don't see how any of the exemptions will apply when DOJ is expressly saying that they will not honor those serials. Only exemption I feel is solid is being in a centralized registry.

I'm confused on the pistol build. If you were to convert to fixed mag that is enough to be non-AW status? This is only for pistols built between 2001 to December 31 2016 correct?

If I built an AR pistol today it would have to be a manual action single shot correct?

Since people are asking about what do I do with my legally built 80% SSE semi auto AR pistol that I built between 2001 to end of 2016 the only options I can see are volreg and convert to a fixed mag or go RAW. Claiming it's exempt because it met the exemption status and was properly marked when it was built will just run you into a situation where you are not RAW and appear in no centralized registry?
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"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #187  
Old 02-13-2018, 6:56 PM
justanalog justanalog is offline
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How do we comply for a completed polymer receiver, either pistol or long gun, built before 7/1/18, that does not have the steel insert?
Just stamp the polymer???
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Old 02-13-2018, 7:28 PM
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How do we comply for a completed polymer receiver, either pistol or long gun, built before 7/1/18, that does not have the steel insert?
Just stamp the polymer???
This is why we need someone like the crpa to take a look at these regulations. I fear they are going to wait until the are filed and accepted. Which might be good for them to challenge regulations and law but sucks for us to try and comply.
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Old 02-13-2018, 8:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Volreg has pistol, rifle, rifle shotgun combo, and shotgun. They have to go in as they are intended to be built or how they were built. You could register it as a pistol then build it into a manual action fixed mag single shot, you could even do that years from now. But it has to be what you intend or have already built as. You could disassemble it from a AW status, then register the receiver as a pistol through volreg with the intention of building it into a legal pistol later.


If you go pistol then there is a vague possibility of converting to a rifle in the future, as there is no law saying you can't put on a 16" barrel and put a stock on it. Going from rifle to pistol is impossible and a felony. Personally, I don't ever do the pistol to rifle thing out of ambiguity concerns.
So would it be safe to say that the same would apply to, say an 80% 1911 lower or polymer 80 (assuming metal plate in place) that would apply to AR receiver, in that it could be volreg'd as single shot as a serialized bare frame, so long as it is intended to be built as single shot later?
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Old 02-13-2018, 8:16 PM
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So would it be safe to say that the same would apply to, say an 80% 1911 lower or polymer 80 (assuming metal plate in place) that would apply to AR receiver, in that it could be volreg'd as single shot as a serialized bare frame, so long as it is intended to be built as single shot later?
I am out of my depth with pistols as I am a rifle builder, but my assumption was we could still build regular semi auto pistols with mags in the pistol grip. This all applies to AR and AK style pistols, that specifically have the mag outside the pistol grip.

If you want to own a home build after July 1st 2018 that is NOT subject to AB857's marking requirements, I believe the only way is to volreg now. You can volreg frames, no problem. Just have to say that they are a rifle, pistol, rifle shotgun combo, or a shotgun and that's it. You can mark it however you wish really, there are no exact rules. Follow the fed standard if it makes people feel better.

After July 1st 2018 we are forever limited to submitting to get a serial and doing that whole song and dance. This is a small opportunity to register something outside the 857 requirements.
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Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #191  
Old 02-13-2018, 8:19 PM
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there was a thread, someone successfully volreg'd a polymer80 glock, as a semi-auto. I fear the window to build is rapidly closing. Since the SSE rules are now "grey" as some say with manufacturing an unsafe pistol, if you were to try to do so after July1, apply for the serial first, one of two things will happen. The form to apply for a serial will require to declare they "type" first, and "pistol" won't be an option. Or it will be an option, but they will require it to be, and remain, single shot. Which makes it kind of pointless. The big problem with 80% pistols is not the marking, it's the law against manufacturing and unsafe pistol. That's where the single-shot comes in.

Last edited by sbo80; 02-13-2018 at 8:21 PM.. Reason: .
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Old 02-13-2018, 8:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sbo80 View Post
there was a thread, someone successfully volreg'd a polymer80 glock, as a semi-auto. I fear the window to build is rapidly closing. Since the SSE rules are now "grey" as some say with manufacturing an unsafe pistol, if you were to try to do so after July1, apply for the serial first, one of two things will happen. The form to apply for a serial will require to declare they "type" first, and "pistol" won't be an option. Or it will be an option, but they will require it to be, and remain, single shot. Which makes it kind of pointless. The big problem with 80% pistols is not the marking, it's the law against manufacturing and unsafe pistol. That's where the single-shot comes in.
Here's that thread

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1370628

And a post on how someone attached a plate to a first gen polymer 80 for engraving.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...20&postcount=4


On a side note, more crap being spewed in the news:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/law-enf...iy-ghost-guns/

Quote:
"They're trying to appeal to a certain segment of the population," said Dave Hamilton, senior special agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). "Felons who can't go to a gun store and legally purchase a firearm, or people who just don't want the government knowing what type of firearms they have."
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Old 02-13-2018, 8:28 PM
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I plan on registering all my 80s with the feds via NFA paperwork to stay in compliance. Going the NFA route also exempts the 3.7oz steel requirement as well as DOJ assigned serial numbers, even after July 1st.

1) Submit Form 1 to ATF and get stamp
2) Manufacture single shot bolt action AOW
3) Convert to regular old glock etc.
4) Federally registered Glock pursuant to AB857

I think this will work for ARs too:
1) Submit Form 1 to ATF and get stamp
2) Manufacture AOW using full length upper w/foregrip but no stock
3) Convert to fixed mag or featureless AR
4) Federally registered CA compliant AR pursuant to AB857
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Old 02-13-2018, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ajb78 View Post

On a side note, more crap being spewed in the news:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/law-enf...iy-ghost-guns/
"Felons or people who just don't want the government to know what they have".

Lol, yeah, the exact same kind of person right? One is a Felon and the other is a rational law abiding gun owner, hilarious.

"With less than 3 hours of work......"

So easy, all you need is hours of your time and a drill press and a dremel and all kinds of tools and a test range and a firearms expert to test fire it. I have built so many rifles over the years and none of them went together in 3 hours and then shot perfectly. They all took 50 hours of labor and then required multiple trips to the range to work out all kinds of issues.

So absolutely stupid and untrue. We are led to believe gang members with 3rd grade educations are buying in bulk and constructing finely tuned weapons with complete ease, all with no skills or equipment.

Notice how they pimp stats on how this is used in crime then actually state 2 instances. It's an epidemic problem but we can't tell you anything other than that.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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Old 02-13-2018, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mountain Max View Post
I plan on registering all my 80s with the feds via NFA paperwork to stay in compliance. Going the NFA route also exempts the 3.7oz steel requirement as well as DOJ assigned serial numbers, even after July 1st.

1) Submit Form 1 to ATF and get stamp
2) Manufacture single shot bolt action AOW
3) Convert to regular old glock etc.
4) Federally registered Glock pursuant to AB857

I think this will work for ARs too:
1) Submit Form 1 to ATF and get stamp
2) Manufacture AOW using full length upper w/foregrip but no stock
3) Convert to fixed mag or featureless AR
4) Federally registered CA compliant AR pursuant to AB857
Thats very interesting, didn't know that was possible in CA? I thought all NFA was not allowed?

Why not just volreg?
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Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #196  
Old 02-13-2018, 8:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
"Felons or people who just don't want the government to know what they have".

Lol, yeah, the exact same kind of person right? One is a Felon and the other is a rational law abiding gun owner, hilarious.

[snip]
Well, aren't we all just felons in the making, in the eyes of the state?






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Old 02-13-2018, 8:50 PM
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The new 857 regs say that they mean all home built guns since 1968. The idea that some were "properly marked" per ATF rules and are thus exempt to me is a real stretch. I don't see how any of the exemptions will apply when DOJ is expressly saying that they will not honor those serials. Only exemption I feel is solid is being in a centralized registry.
It's still quite unclear to me that this is the case, but I understand your position.

Quote:
I'm confused on the pistol build. If you were to convert to fixed mag that is enough to be non-AW status? This is only for pistols built between 2001 to December 31 2016 correct?
Yes, fixed magazine or not semi-auto are the only choices for AR/AK pistols to not be AWs.

Quote:
If I built an AR pistol today it would have to be a manual action single shot correct?.
It would have to comply with SSE2 requirements... dimensionally compliant and originally assembled as a single shot bolt action or break top action. At this point it is unclear whether then converting to semi-auto is "continuing the manufacturing" process thus making it a violation of the "safe handgun roster".
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Old 02-13-2018, 9:25 PM
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Thats very interesting, didn't know that was possible in CA? I thought all NFA was not allowed?
AOWs are allowed in California as long as they are configured according to CA law (for example, not an assault weapon)


Quote:
Why not just volreg?
I would rather trust my serial numbers with the feds than with this state. I have no guns currently in AFS as everything I purchased was prior to 2014.

I don't feel like I should be forced to choose between the 2nd and 4th Amendment. I highly value my freedoms and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. I'm not a criminal, so I will go to great lengths to follow the law while preserving my freedoms.

A state-level gun database is far more intrusive than a federal gun registry. The average citizen will have many more interactions with state level law enforcement than they will with feds.

There have already been instances where calgunners report what would otherwise be casual LEO encounters turned into tense situations due to AFS. While I understand why AFS can be a useful tool to law enforcement, I think it's too easy to be abused and will lead to some officers developing dangerous habits: "oh, the computer tells me this guy has no guns, he must be safe then" or "wow this guy owns guns? I better be prepared if he makes any sudden movements!"

What's more, this state has made it abundantly clear that they have deep contempt for gun owners and the 2nd amendment. Why on earth would I trust such an entity with information about what guns I own?
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Old 02-13-2018, 9:28 PM
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I would rather trust my serial numbers with the feds than with this state. I have no guns currently in AFS as everything I purchased was prior to 2014.

I don't feel like I should be forced to choose between the 2nd and 4th Amendment. I highly value my freedoms and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. I'm not a criminal, so I will go to great lengths to follow the law while preserving my freedoms.

A state-level gun database is far more intrusive than a federal gun registry. The average citizen will have many more interactions with state level law enforcement than they will with feds.

There have already been instances where calgunners report what would otherwise be casual LEO encounters turned into tense situations due to AFS. While I understand why AFS can be a useful tool to law enforcement, I think it's too easy to be abused and will lead to some officers developing dangerous habits: "oh, the computer tells me this guy has no guns, he must be safe then" or "wow this guy owns guns? I better be prepared if he makes any sudden movements!"

What's more, this state has made it abundantly clear that they have deep contempt for gun owners and the 2nd amendment. Why on earth would I trust such an entity with information about what guns I own?
Yeah that makes sense, especially if you have nothing else in there. I unfortunately have tons in there already, so it's less of an issue.

How do you go about the NFA form 1?
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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Old 02-13-2018, 9:43 PM
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Yeah that makes sense, especially if you have nothing else in there. I unfortunately have tons in there already, so it's less of an issue.

How do you go about the NFA form 1?
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/fo...53201/download

I'm currently deciding between doing this as an individual or using a trust. I'll probably submit it as an individual since it will process faster. I'm going to contact my local DA's office before proceeding since I will be required to notify either their office or the Sheriff's office (although I won't need any approval)
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