Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Discussions of Faith
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-23-2018, 10:27 AM
Mish2A Mish2A is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 12
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default Is church necessary?

Is going to church necessary for a Christian if you are still fellowshipping with people?
Recently broke off my engagement and I donít want to talk about it with people at church. So Iíve been considering taking a break from church for a while. What are some thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-23-2018, 10:43 AM
CPRAFAN CPRAFAN is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 957
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Depends - some churches are run by manginas and throw the men under the bus. Mark Driscoll is one of the worst - he loves to insult the men in his congregation, from what I've heard. For more info on this, google "Dalrock blog" and read some of the info on the current church idiocy on "servant leadership" and complementiarian doctrine. I know a few preachers who look out for men in the land of divorce lawyers aka USA. They are willing to do no marriage license weddings, religious wedding only. If you want to get married, this is the best chance you have to avoid alimony and divorce rape by the high priced divorce lawyer$. If the priest or preacher demands you get a marriage license - leave ASAP. Watch "DivorceCorp trailer" on Youtube for more info. Try to find a church that doesn't treat men like toilet paper or insult you to your face and tell you to grovel to shrews and nagathas. Not easy to do.

Commenter Sam Obispo: "For post-wall women, church is where they exchange their expired "cock carousel season pass" for access to the "graduates" of the "beta-male provider academy. Men should be as attracted to "former" carousel riders as women are attracted to former millionaires. A woman would never forgive a potential mate for wasting his fortune (meaning: spending it on other women), so a man should not forgive a potential mate for wasting her virtue (on every other man.) "

Last edited by CPRAFAN; 09-23-2018 at 11:43 AM.. Reason: Add comment
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-23-2018, 12:39 PM
billvau's Avatar
billvau billvau is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norcal mountains
Posts: 577
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Yes, it is AND it's the best place to work through this with the help of others. Being part of a church is so fundamental to New Testament Christianity that is assumed throughout. But, it's not only assumed but encouraged, commanded, etc. (e.g. Heb. 13:17; Heb 10:24-25; Ephesians 4:11-16, etc.).

I'd speak privately with your Pastor first and have him help you through this time- both personally and with your church. Breaking off an engagement is not sin and Christ wants to use other Christians to support you.

God bless,
__________________
Pastor Bill

ďUnless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of GodÖĒ Martin Luther
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-23-2018, 8:55 PM
libertyordeath's Avatar
libertyordeath libertyordeath is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,535
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billvau View Post
Yes, it is AND it's the best place to work through this with the help of others. Being part of a church is so fundamental to New Testament Christianity that is assumed throughout. But, it's not only assumed but encouraged, commanded, etc. (e.g. Heb. 13:17; Heb 10:24-25; Ephesians 4:11-16, etc.).

I'd speak privately with your Pastor first and have him help you through this time- both personally and with your church. Breaking off an engagement is not sin and Christ wants to use other Christians to support you.

God bless,
This, what I've Learned from my walk with God and teachings is that we don't only go to church to get fed but to help other brothers in tough times and share are trails and Victories to help grow. You can help and be helped by others going through and gone through the same trails.

So yes please continue going do not get cold because satan and his demons are ready to seize any opportunity.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-23-2018, 9:16 PM
orangeusa's Avatar
orangeusa orangeusa is offline
<-- Airplane pic !!!!
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,929
iTrader: 82 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mish2A View Post
Is going to church necessary for a Christian if you are still fellowshipping with people?
Recently broke off my engagement and I donít want to talk about it with people at church. So Iíve been considering taking a break from church for a while. What are some thoughts?
It is up to you. Sounds like you need a break. Heck, you might want to go to another Church and let them know you are "available".

Little old Church ladies LOVE to set folks up...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-24-2018, 9:17 AM
Garand Hunter Garand Hunter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 375
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Fellowship among other believers is my only reason for the " go to church " attitude I have interacted with all of my adult life. Searching the scriptures myself thru out my life as keep me abreast of the life force God puts within us as we walk with Him all thru our lives. Two years in the army in Ft Ord CA and in Germany while 22 and 23 yrs old showed my own desire to stay with my faith away from the home church. Fellowship was rare but I found it when I looked for it. Yes continue in fellowship where it works, where it has hangups consider looking for it as you pray over it.

Another thing I learned and recognized over time, pastors who worked regular jobs were much closer to life for real among the church goers in life issues. Of course when the church grows larger and larger that will change as needed.

Psalm 1

Last edited by Garand Hunter; 09-24-2018 at 9:19 AM.. Reason: sentence structure
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-24-2018, 10:22 AM
Rizzo's Avatar
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Shasta County
Posts: 268
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mish2A View Post
Is going to church necessary for a Christian if you are still fellowshipping with people?
Recently broke off my engagement and I donít want to talk about it with people at church. So Iíve been considering taking a break from church for a while. What are some thoughts?
No, it is not necessary.
You do not have to be in church to " Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."
For some, sitting quietly at home with eyes closed and having a "conversation" with God (prayer) is more beneficial than in an environment (church) that is distracting with noisy people going on.

But, some folks make it a social event as well, so whatever makes you comfortable and helps you spiritually.
No "hard" rule there about "having" to go to church.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-24-2018, 11:20 AM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,088
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

If you are a Christian you need to be in Church. God has given you gifts to share with with the brothers and sisters. Not to hoard for yourself. Being a Christian is a verb. Not a mental excercise.

Hebrews 10:25
not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.

Hebrews 13:7
Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith.


Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God
__________________
John 2:5
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-24-2018, 2:21 PM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 462
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

God never went to church. Jesus went to Synagogue. There was that time he went to temple but things didn't end so well after that. The disciples stopped going to synagogue and started their own thing. Some still went to the temple on occasion. The protestants quit going to mass at some point.

Religion MUST be done with a community of people in some way, shape or form. I wouldn't get too hung up on how that is done so much as that it is done. Church is just an easy, pre-packaged way to do that. Just plug and play rather than constantly checking schedules with a handful of friends.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-24-2018, 3:06 PM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,088
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Jesus said "My Church". He has a Church. If you are His you should be there. Tha Apostles had Church. No, it wasn't a specific building but it was Church. And since they were given the "Binding, and Loosing" clause and said we're doing Church, Christians should do church. It is an order.
__________________
John 2:5
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-24-2018, 7:21 PM
billvau's Avatar
billvau billvau is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norcal mountains
Posts: 577
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CVShooter View Post
God never went to church. Jesus went to Synagogue. There was that time he went to temple but things didn't end so well after that. The disciples stopped going to synagogue and started their own thing. Some still went to the temple on occasion. The protestants quit going to mass at some point.

Religion MUST be done with a community of people in some way, shape or form. I wouldn't get too hung up on how that is done so much as that it is done. Church is just an easy, pre-packaged way to do that. Just plug and play rather than constantly checking schedules with a handful of friends.
God created the Church and placed Christ as head over it:
22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all_

Christ proclaimed the church during His ministry, said He would build it and gave us the process for handling unrepentant sin in the church:
Mt16:18 ď... upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
Mt18:15 ďIf your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 ďBut if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17 ďIf he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

In John's vision of the book of Revelation, he sees Jesus Christ at the beginning of the vision standing amongst the churches:

Re1:12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash.

The "church" is created by God the Father, given to Jesus Christ the Son, well-defined and structured (Pastoral Epistles) with a lot of teaching on it in the New Testament.

Ephesians 2:11-22 teaches of how it was formed as the one new man of v.15 and what it looks like today:

Eph2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of Godís household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

God never went to Church? wrong. God created the church and Jesus Christ's body IS the church. And, He is the cornerstone and Christians, in union with Christ, are being built up as a spiritual, holy temple - a building - in the Lord.

Back to the OP - go to church? YES. The NT know no other way to be a Christian. In fact, the NT speaks FAR MORE of our corporate salvation than our individual salvation.
__________________
Pastor Bill

ďUnless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of GodÖĒ Martin Luther
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-24-2018, 8:53 PM
Wordupmybrotha's Avatar
Wordupmybrotha Wordupmybrotha is offline
From Anotha Motha
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 3,918
iTrader: 50 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mish2A View Post
Is going to church necessary for a Christian if you are still fellowshipping with people?
Recently broke off my engagement and I don’t want to talk about it with people at church. So I’ve been considering taking a break from church for a while. What are some thoughts?
Yes, go to church.
And don't be a wuss. If you don't want to talk about it, then don't talk about it.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-25-2018, 1:40 PM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 462
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billvau View Post
God created the Church and placed Christ as head over it:
22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all_

Christ proclaimed the church during His ministry, said He would build it and gave us the process for handling unrepentant sin in the church:
Mt16:18 ď... upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
Mt18:15 ďIf your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 ďBut if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17 ďIf he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

In John's vision of the book of Revelation, he sees Jesus Christ at the beginning of the vision standing amongst the churches:

Re1:12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash.

The "church" is created by God the Father, given to Jesus Christ the Son, well-defined and structured (Pastoral Epistles) with a lot of teaching on it in the New Testament.

Ephesians 2:11-22 teaches of how it was formed as the one new man of v.15 and what it looks like today:

Eph2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of Godís household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

God never went to Church? wrong. God created the church and Jesus Christ's body IS the church. And, He is the cornerstone and Christians, in union with Christ, are being built up as a spiritual, holy temple - a building - in the Lord.

Back to the OP - go to church? YES. The NT know no other way to be a Christian. In fact, the NT speaks FAR MORE of our corporate salvation than our individual salvation.
Pastor, you know chapter and verse very well. But you miss the obvious. Did Jesus have a church when he spent a month in the wilderness? What about John when he was exiled? Did the Jews have a synagogue while exiled in Persia or Babylon? How about Paul as he wandered around trying to convert Gentiles? When Paul and Barnabus sat in prison, who was the pastor? What about the conflicts between Paul and the original disciples that led them to that prison in the first place -- was Paul operating outside the operational boundaries of the "real" church?

OP - beware conflicts of interest. An insurance salesman will always tell you that you need insurance.

One of the best Christians I know spent his free time helping people and testifying to how much his faith meant to him. He lived the faith better than anybody I've ever met who didn't earn a living from it. He quit going to church years before we met because, as he looked around Jerusalem, he didn't see a single church that LIVED the faith by actually helping others, rather than just doing church stuff (ceremony, reading the Bible, etc.). So he devoted his spare time to helping people rather than showing up for church. Best darned Christian I've ever met.

But that's a lot of hard work that few people have the patience and time for. Church is easy. But don't ever let church get in the way of your faith. And if you need a break from church, take one.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-25-2018, 2:14 PM
WASR10's Avatar
WASR10 WASR10 is offline
Just Me
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Inland Empire
Posts: 2,398
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default Is church necessary?

ďand let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.Ē -Hebrews 10:24-25

The church is founded by Christ for believers to assemble and uplift each other in the faith, and to worship God in the way He has shown us through His word. As bill and ramclap have so ably stated, the church is necessary.

But OP, if you need a break from your spiritual family, or the people who attend your congregation, then by all means take one! I certainly have. We all need respite from time to time. Just donít forget to return.
__________________
Mark 16:16

Last edited by WASR10; 09-25-2018 at 3:16 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-25-2018, 3:14 PM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,088
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CVShooter View Post
Pastor, you know chapter and verse very well. But you miss the obvious. Did Jesus have a church when he spent a month in the wilderness? What about John when he was exiled? Did the Jews have a synagogue while exiled in Persia or Babylon? How about Paul as he wandered around trying to convert Gentiles? When Paul and Barnabus sat in prison, who was the pastor? What about the conflicts between Paul and the original disciples that led them to that prison in the first place -- was Paul operating outside the operational boundaries of the "real" church?

OP - beware conflicts of interest. An insurance salesman will always tell you that you need insurance.

One of the best Christians I know spent his free time helping people and testifying to how much his faith meant to him. He lived the faith better than anybody I've ever met who didn't earn a living from it. He quit going to church years before we met because, as he looked around Jerusalem, he didn't see a single church that LIVED the faith by actually helping others, rather than just doing church stuff (ceremony, reading the Bible, etc.). So he devoted his spare time to helping people rather than showing up for church. Best darned Christian I've ever met.

But that's a lot of hard work that few people have the patience and time for. Church is easy. But don't ever let church get in the way of your faith. And if you need a break from church, take one.
Yes, the Jews had synagogs while in captivity in Babylon and the Persian Empire. And the Greek, and Roman Empires. It's why Paul could be a Pharisee from Tarsus. Jesus did indeed speak in all of the synagogs throuout the Decapolis. That includes Damascus. So, yes. Church.
__________________
John 2:5
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-25-2018, 3:27 PM
The War Wagon's Avatar
The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: da' 'BURGH
Posts: 5,273
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mish2A View Post
Is going to church necessary for a Christian


Yes.




/thread
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-25-2018, 3:48 PM
billvau's Avatar
billvau billvau is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norcal mountains
Posts: 577
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CVShooter View Post
Pastor, you know chapter and verse very well. But you miss the obvious. Did Jesus have a church when he spent a month in the wilderness? What about John when he was exiled? Did the Jews have a synagogue while exiled in Persia or Babylon? How about Paul as he wandered around trying to convert Gentiles? When Paul and Barnabus sat in prison, who was the pastor? What about the conflicts between Paul and the original disciples that led them to that prison in the first place -- was Paul operating outside the operational boundaries of the "real" church?
Oh my. Lots of questions showing that you haven't read the New Testament, yet want to sound very authoritative and convincing. So, when did the church start? Who did God use to reveal the details of the Church? What does the NT teach about where Paul ministered? What churches and how long? What does the NT teach about John and church?

If you knew the NT, you wouldn't ask those questions to try to be challenging. Just sayin...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CVShooter View Post
OP - beware conflicts of interest. An insurance salesman will always tell you that you need insurance.
What? Thanks for the insult. Let me remind you - John6:44 ďNo one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." You see, I don't sell anything. I've never told anyone here where I even pastor and one reason for that is so no one can say I'm trying to get someone to go to my church. People will privately IM me and ask, but only the sincere get an answer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CVShooter View Post
One of the best Christians I know spent his free time helping people and testifying to how much his faith meant to him. He lived the faith better than anybody I've ever met who didn't earn a living from it. He quit going to church years before we met because, as he looked around Jerusalem, he didn't see a single church that LIVED the faith by actually helping others, rather than just doing church stuff (ceremony, reading the Bible, etc.). So he devoted his spare time to helping people rather than showing up for church. Best darned Christian I've ever met.
Unfortunately, not the best Christian because he was disobedient to his Father in heaven. Christ didn't need him skipping church and being disobedient. Given that he led a unbiblical life, it's not surprising to see you say that he used the same unbiblical standards to find a church. He wouldn't have seen a biblical church with his criteria. Do you think that a church is going to go around bragging about its service? Do you think that I could list ALL the ways people in our body serve daily? Heavens no. He just wanted to do Christianity his way and not God's way. Sorry.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CVShooter View Post
But that's a lot of hard work that few people have the patience and time for. Church is easy. But don't ever let church get in the way of your faith. And if you need a break from church, take one.
Baloney. Not biblical. An answer that will hurt him more than help him, now and in the long term (Hebrews 10:24-25). How about proving this from God's word instead of yet another post spewing forth your personal opinion (2 Timothy 2:15)? Hmmm? We need to see an objective source of truth quoted, in context, with proper interpretation so that we can know it's true. That's why I quote the Bible instead of my opinion (John 17:17).
__________________
Pastor Bill

ďUnless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of GodÖĒ Martin Luther
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-25-2018, 10:02 PM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 462
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Pastor bill- no offense or insult intended. Truth be told, I used to sell insurance. Perhaps a better metaphor is one of having ďa dog in the fight.Ē Conflicts of interest are inherent in ministry and much of business. Heck, itís in family life, too. We canít get rid of them but itís imperative that we acknowledge them.

Iím amused that so many folks here think I havenít read the NT. Or the OT. In fact, yes, Iíve read it several times, along with the apocryphal writings (Apocrypha, Pseudopigrapha) and untold numbers of scholarly books. Iíve read the NT in Greek (forgotten most of that now). My Hebrew was all modern so not much use for scholarly work.

Back to Pastor Bill ó Decapoli cities were built by the Romans (post Assyrian, post Babylonian post Persian and Post Hellenic). But maybe I missed something. What synagogues were present at the early part of the Babylonian exile? Early Persian exile?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-26-2018, 1:15 AM
SelfGovernor SelfGovernor is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North San Diego County
Posts: 174
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

I always try to find answers to questions like this in the scriptures since they should be our guide in all things: 2TIM 3:16.

An early passage on what God thinks about us going to church is Leviticus 23:3.

Quote:
NIV Leviticus 23:3 "'There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the LORD.
Other translations use the word Convocation, which means assembly or gathering in this context. Clearly the Father wants for us to meet, share our burdens, fellowship etc. with other believers at least once every week.

Mish2A, I think most will have empathy for you, and it really is better to have broken off an engagement then to have a marriage, kids, etc... ending in divorce.

SG
__________________
... that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Last edited by SelfGovernor; 09-26-2018 at 1:19 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-26-2018, 5:37 AM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,088
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CVShooter View Post
Pastor bill- no offense or insult intended. Truth be told, I used to sell insurance. Perhaps a better metaphor is one of having ďa dog in the fight.Ē Conflicts of interest are inherent in ministry and much of business. Heck, itís in family life, too. We canít get rid of them but itís imperative that we acknowledge them.

Iím amused that so many folks here think I havenít read the NT. Or the OT. In fact, yes, Iíve read it several times, along with the apocryphal writings (Apocrypha, Pseudopigrapha) and untold numbers of scholarly books. Iíve read the NT in Greek (forgotten most of that now). My Hebrew was all modern so not much use for scholarly work.

Back to Pastor Bill ó Decapoli cities were built by the Romans (post Assyrian, post Babylonian post Persian and Post Hellenic). But maybe I missed something. What synagogues were present at the early part of the Babylonian exile? Early Persian exile?
Don't deflect. Not much of anything exists in the beggining. By the time the Persians conquered the Babylonians there were synagogs in every city and town throughout the empire. Again, Paul was from Tarsus. And he preached in synagogs.
Acts Chapter 17:1:ďNow when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the Scripture.Ē

I will also off you this.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1105376

And once again, if you really had read your scripture as you say you have then this would have been obvious to you. We keep offering scripture as proof and you continue to offer opinion to the OP. Why? What ulterior motive do you have in contradicting scripture?
__________________
John 2:5
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-26-2018, 10:13 AM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 462
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMCLAP View Post
Don't deflect. Not much of anything exists in the beggining. By the time the Persians conquered the Babylonians there were synagogs in every city and town throughout the empire. Again, Paul was from Tarsus. And he preached in synagogs.
Acts Chapter 17:1:“Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the Scripture.”

I will also off you this.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1105376

And once again, if you really had read your scripture as you say you have then this would have been obvious to you. We keep offering scripture as proof and you continue to offer opinion to the OP. Why? What ulterior motive do you have in contradicting scripture?
Paul being from Tarsus is irrelevant here. Tarsus was in Asia Minor -- part of the Greek and Roman empires. Persia and Babylon lie outside these boundaries and were radically different cultures. This, of course, is completely separate from the fact that the Hellenic (Greek) empire took over Asia Minor a few hundred years after the Babylonians and a couple hundred years after the Persians sent the Jews back to Judea to rebuild their temple. Different timelines and different geography. The Decapoli were setup by the Romans to put the fear of the gods into the Persians because they were freaked out that the Persians would retake their former territories in the east. The general idea being that if the Roman Empire's fringe looked that spectacular, then Rome's heart must be incredibly strong & magnificent (not worth the risk to invade). It was an expensive strategy but it worked. However, my point, to restate it, is simply that God's people have gone significant periods of time without a religious institution and that they have had to recreate these institutions from time to time (temple destroyed, start a synagogue). All that takes time to rethink & reorganize. Getting hung up on the institution misses the objective -- it's about community, wherever you can find it.

I'm not a chapter/verse reciter because that mode of thinking is legalistic and doesn't allow for any flexibility. Not all Christian traditions place such a value on the text. And not all faith traditions have the same text. It's a middle-management kind of perspective that is exactly the kind of thing that Jesus criticized. He was a follower of the spirit of the law, not the exact wording.

There's an old book I read years back by Hayes -- THE MORAL VISION OF THE NEW TESTAMENT. Even years after I read it, I found a couple pastors who were recommending it to me. I've long since donated my copies to church libraries. But I recall appreciating how the author looks at the exact wording of the text on an issue like abortion, for example. But then looks at the overall tone of the scripture on issues and tries to tease out if this is a hard/fast rule or a guideline with greater issues that may be at stake in some cases. In other words, it's a book that sets aside the idea of WHAT to think in favor of HOW to think. I don't agree with all his perspectives but it's a great book for stretching your brain a bit on things you may take for granted.

So, back to the OP's question regarding church attendance. My recommendation is to seek community. Church is the easiest way to find that but any other means may be an acceptable "patch" in the interim as you get your personal life settled.

Last edited by CVShooter; 09-26-2018 at 10:17 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-26-2018, 10:35 AM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,088
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Incorrect. Tarsus and Asia Minor were firmly in the Persian Empire. The Persians launched two invasions of Greece from Aisa Minor. They were not radically different cultures after Alexander conquered them. The whole of Alexanders Empire was made thouroughly Hellenistic. And Jews were allowed anywhere in the Persian Empire and to even return to Jesusalem to rebuild it. Thus becoming part of Alexanders Greek Empire. The whole of the Decapolis was Hellenist. As much as Jesus and the Apostle's were Jews they were Greeks immersed in Greek culture. The entire eastern empire spoke Greek not Latin. Thus, Jesus and the Apostle's preached in all of the synagogs throughout the Eastern Empire. Again, it is your recommendation based on your own opinion. The scriptures say that if you are a Christian you need to be in church. All of what it means to be Christian comes from the Scriptures. Not the opinions of men. Again, the Bereans were called "noble" because they didn't take the word of Paul at face value. The searched the scriptures to see if what he was saying was true because they would not accept the opinions of men.
__________________
John 2:5
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-26-2018, 10:35 AM
Limeman's Avatar
Limeman Limeman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: NorCal - Voted for Trump!!
Posts: 747
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Smile

Rather than offering MY opinion, let's look at what God says through the bible.

In Hebrews 10:25, it says "This is not the time to pull away and neglect meeting together, as some have formed the habit of doing, because we need each other! In fact, we should come together even more frequently, eager to encourage and urge each other onward as we anticipate that day dawning".

Seems pretty clear that attending church with other believers is indeed "required", especially if the individual wants to grow in their faith and become more effective in their calling. It also allows a person to benefit other believers who want to do the same. Finally, and most importantly, it honors God. I'd say, find a great church and get involved!

Last edited by Limeman; 09-26-2018 at 10:40 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-26-2018, 11:11 AM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 462
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMCLAP View Post
Incorrect. Tarsus and Asia Minor were firmly in the Persian Empire. The Persians launched two invasions of Greece from Aisa Minor. They were not radically different cultures after Alexander conquered them. The whole of Alexanders Empire was made thouroughly Hellenistic. And Jews were allowed anywhere in the Persian Empire and to even return to Jesusalem to rebuild it. Thus becoming part of Alexanders Greek Empire. .
These were later developments. Assyria took over the Northern part of Israel. But the Babylonians exiled the Jews from Judea around 586. This was not just a "get out" order but a "get in" order. You need to understand HOW exile worked back then. The religious and political leaders were taken captive to the core of the empire, often the capital city, to work for the new emperor. They used their skills in law, religion, etc. for their new empire under close supervision from the capital. The only folks left back home or allowed to "roam" were the lower, uneducated classes. Leadership stayed in or near the capital of the new empire. Meanwhile, Persian leaders were sent to rule the conquered lands. Only those you really trust (other Babylonians) can be sent far away to rule distant parts of the empire.

Babylon exiled them. Persia took over Judea from Babylon but it wasn't until Darius took the throne that they were actually permitted to to rebuild their own temples & such back home (see Nehemiah). Date-wise, we're talking Babylonian exile of 586, Cyrus's edict in 539 and a temple rebuild around 521. But even though they COULD leave under Cyrus or Darius, there were a lot that stayed. Life in the capital as a bureaucrat was good. And, culturally, your family would have changed somewhat. The Bible documents the struggle to get people to return very well.

Yes, the Persians invaded the Hellenic empire but Asia minor was still FAR away from Persia. Hardly the core of the Persian empire or even culturally Persian. Asia Minor was VERY western, and still is (for now).

Decapoli were Roman. And the Rome that Jesus knew was almost 600 years after Babylonian exile. 600 years is no small time span in that area.

The Jewish diaspora under the Greeks also created a different system of religion since they destroyed the temple that was rebuilt under Darius. This is the synagogue system that Jesus would have known. Some early forms of this may have been around during the Babylonian exile. But the formal institution wasn't really under way until after Antiochus IV's destruction of the second temple around 200 or so.

But the details of the history are beside the point. What's clear is that there was a lot of time that went by where people had to improvise how religion was done.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-26-2018, 12:41 PM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,088
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

The synagogs were there when the Persians took over and still there when Alexander took over. Why do you think Paul was going to Damascus? He explicitly asked for letters from the synagogs in Damascus stating that the Christians were preaching in them. Damascus was smack in the middle of the Babylonian/Persian/Greek/Roman empires. You can obfuscate all you want. You are still only offering your opinion on church and nothing more. If you can show Scripture that says you don't need to be part of the body when Paul gives an entire lecture on the meaning of Christ as head and the Church as the body then do so. Until then, you've only offered opinion.
__________________
John 2:5
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-26-2018, 1:41 PM
billvau's Avatar
billvau billvau is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norcal mountains
Posts: 577
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CVShooter View Post
Pastor bill- no offense or insult intended. Truth be told, I used to sell insurance. Perhaps a better metaphor is one of having ďa dog in the fight.Ē Conflicts of interest are inherent in ministry and much of business. Heck, itís in family life, too. We canít get rid of them but itís imperative that we acknowledge them.

Iím amused that so many folks here think I havenít read the NT. Or the OT. In fact, yes, Iíve read it several times, along with the apocryphal writings (Apocrypha, Pseudopigrapha) and untold numbers of scholarly books. Iíve read the NT in Greek (forgotten most of that now). My Hebrew was all modern so not much use for scholarly work.

Back to Pastor Bill ó Decapoli cities were built by the Romans (post Assyrian, post Babylonian post Persian and Post Hellenic). But maybe I missed something. What synagogues were present at the early part of the Babylonian exile? Early Persian exile?
Thanks for the nice reply. I'm offline for a few days but will be back. Wife hip-replacement surgery.
__________________
Pastor Bill

ďUnless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of GodÖĒ Martin Luther
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-26-2018, 2:56 PM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,088
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by billvau View Post
Thanks for the nice reply. I'm offline for a few days but will be back. Wife hip-replacement surgery.
Good for her. My wife had it and she has a whole new life.
__________________
John 2:5
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-26-2018, 4:58 PM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 462
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMCLAP View Post
The synagogs were there when the Persians took over and still there when Alexander took over. Why do you think Paul was going to Damascus? He explicitly asked for letters from the synagogs in Damascus stating that the Christians were preaching in them. Damascus was smack in the middle of the Babylonian/Persian/Greek/Roman empires. .
Damascus is in Syria but closer to modern day Lebanon. Rome is West. Babylonia was East. Persia is farther East. All of the Levant is smack-dab on the fringe of both. To modern eyes, they're close. But they're pretty far by foot travel.

That is why that area gets taken over so much throughout history -- control that area and you control a lot of trade between the great powers west, east and south. Culturally, they're very different, too. Persia remained decidedly "Oriental" in the Roman days vs. the "Occidental" cultures of the Mediterranean.

**Edit - Maybe I'm misreading you. Damascus & Asia Minor were in between Rome and Persia. Smack in the middle of the two. But it was on the fringe of Rome and on the fringe of Persia. Do we agree there?

I don't question that there were synagogues in Paul's day (Roman empire). Or that there were synagogues all over the Roman empire. No debate there.
But, Paul was alive over 600 years after the Babylonian exile. Not even Paul's great-great grandfather knew those days. So I'm confused why you keep bringing up Paul or synagogues in the Roman empire as evidence that there were somehow synagogues the aftermath of the Babylonian exile. Can you please clarify?

But, yes, I express my opinion. And that is what was requested. As to "What the Bible says," we all agree that the Bible wants everybody to go to church. But the Torah mandated sacrifices and temple ritual even though, for the Jews of the exile, there was no temple. So they had to rethink things. My opinion is that it's okay to rethink things when necessary. And there are plenty of examples in the Bible of people doing that. Getting hung up on the letter of the law is exactly the kind of thing that Jesus criticized the Pharisees about. So, following his example here, why get hung up over the issue of church vs gathering of friends?

Last edited by CVShooter; 09-26-2018 at 5:03 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-26-2018, 5:11 PM
4aces 4aces is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 96
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

are you gonna take a break from church during the super bowl, how bout when you feel guilty of sin? hang in there brother
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-26-2018, 5:55 PM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,088
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CVShooter View Post
Damascus is in Syria but closer to modern day Lebanon. Rome is West. Babylonia was East. Persia is farther East. All of the Levant is smack-dab on the fringe of both. To modern eyes, they're close. But they're pretty far by foot travel.

That is why that area gets taken over so much throughout history -- control that area and you control a lot of trade between the great powers west, east and south. Culturally, they're very different, too. Persia remained decidedly "Oriental" in the Roman days vs. the "Occidental" cultures of the Mediterranean.

**Edit - Maybe I'm misreading you. Damascus & Asia Minor were in between Rome and Persia. Smack in the middle of the two. But it was on the fringe of Rome and on the fringe of Persia. Do we agree there?

I don't question that there were synagogues in Paul's day (Roman empire). Or that there were synagogues all over the Roman empire. No debate there.
But, Paul was alive over 600 years after the Babylonian exile. Not even Paul's great-great grandfather knew those days. So I'm confused why you keep bringing up Paul or synagogues in the Roman empire as evidence that there were somehow synagogues the aftermath of the Babylonian exile. Can you please clarify?

But, yes, I express my opinion. And that is what was requested. As to "What the Bible says," we all agree that the Bible wants everybody to go to church. But the Torah mandated sacrifices and temple ritual even though, for the Jews of the exile, there was no temple. So they had to rethink things. My opinion is that it's okay to rethink things when necessary. And there are plenty of examples in the Bible of people doing that. Getting hung up on the letter of the law is exactly the kind of thing that Jesus criticized the Pharisees about. So, following his example here, why get hung up over the issue of church vs gathering of friends?
The Synagogue and the synagog system literally came about because of the Babylonian Captivity. The priests could no longer make the sacrafice at the temple. So, the Rabbi's would teach and preach in the synagogue. Passing that form on to Jesus and the Apostle's who passed it on to the Church. You've been proven wrong scripturally, and historically time and time again. Still, you persist. My hat is off to you.
__________________
John 2:5
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 09-27-2018, 9:23 AM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 462
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMCLAP View Post
The Synagogue and the synagog system literally came about because of the Babylonian Captivity. The priests could no longer make the sacrafice at the temple. So, the Rabbi's would teach and preach in the synagogue. Passing that form on to Jesus and the Apostle's who passed it on to the Church. You've been proven wrong scripturally, and historically time and time again. Still, you persist. My hat is off to you.
We're in agreement -- mostly. Do you think that change was instantaneous? How long did it take for the synagogue system to develop? Days? Weeks? Months? Years? Decades?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 09-27-2018, 10:14 AM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,088
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Decades.
__________________
John 2:5
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 09-27-2018, 1:01 PM
WASR10's Avatar
WASR10 WASR10 is offline
Just Me
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Inland Empire
Posts: 2,398
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default Is church necessary?

Let us remember that the OP asked specifically about the Christian church. The Christian church began circa AD30 (recorded in Acts 2) and has been in continuous existence since. It is made of the body of believers, it can be anywhere when two or more believers come together.

However scripture shows us the example by which we should follow: they gathered together on the first day for worship, they came to break bread, fellowship, give of their means, praise the Lord in song, partake in the memorial of the Lords Supper, and learn from His word. Often when people ask if Ďchurch is necessaryí they are referring to these practices. According to the scriptures, it is.

This gathering is important for the Believer to maintain their obedience, their knowledge, and their motivation. For any who would criticize the Bible as the source of this knowledge I ask, from where else would it come?
__________________
Mark 16:16

Last edited by WASR10; 09-27-2018 at 1:18 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 09-27-2018, 3:25 PM
phreaticus phreaticus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 134
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Well, I came on CG today to sell a gun, but stumbled on this thread. Interesting! I'm mostly aligned with WASR10's comments above. But, once we have defined the Church correctly as a living organism - I still think there is still much valid discussion to be had around the "how" of Church....

@ OP & CVShooter, I've tried to have some discussions like this and its usually pretty tough. I think you might be interested in "organic church" concepts. Might want to check out a book called "Pagan Christianity". Not perfect, and while I don't agree with all of it's perspectives, it was rather seminal for me in that it opened my eyes up for the first time to the fact that there are many believers who have accepted and prioritize God's love in our lives, yet don't feel comfortable or "fed" by the popular modern western model of Church. Before that book, I stewed for years and years in my own mental/spiritual soup. It was very enlightening for me to understand that there are actually millions of folks like this. Discussing this tends to disturb many Christians who do feel comfortable in that model... which is unfortunate and unproductive IMO...

I'd welcome feedback on the following from anyone that has studied such things, ideally someone with formal theological training (vs strong subjective opinions, that may have been mostly ingrained during 3rd grade sunday school upbringing, vs open minded seeking/testing of truth, which Christ and Apostles actually admonished us to, repeatedly and strongly in the NT).

If one were to look at the growth of the world's Christian population on an x/y plot, with the Y-axis as number of people, and the X-axis as a historical timeline starting at 0 AD - I think the trendline is characterized by 2 massive peaks. The two periods of exponential growth were A) the first few hundred years after Jesus' death, and B) the last few hundred years in China. The really interesting thing is that neither period had the Bible or Church, as most of us conceive of them today. In the first period the Bible simply didn't exist; the OT scriptures and writings of the NT Apostles didn't get canonized into what we now have until around 400 AD ish. In the China spike, due to translation, cultural and government limitations, Bibles were in short supply (and basically still are). Both periods seem to have been characterized primarily by groups of believers operating primarily with fragmented bits of scripture and the simple basics of the Jesus salvation story, and they met mostly in distributed, unstructured gatherings in homes or public places.

I'm not advocating not going to Church. I am suggesting that followers of Christ might be a bit more open minded and flexible about how believers can accomplish the vital functions which the scriptures do clearly admonish us to pursue: fellowship, accountability, teaching, encouragement, worship, discipline, serving and meeting each other' needs and various other forms of being a living organism (e.g. a loving family) - which is what the concept of Church really is, per my feeble understanding. Meeting in a pointy building, singing some songs, and listening to a preacher give a teaching for an hour every week - is one method. Useful for some, not so much for many of us. (Obviously this is a very coarse generalization...).

Another aspect of "Church" that I think we’re a bit twisted up on, is the general evangelical view that we need to grow the Church by convincing folks to come IN to our building/group/meeting. Usually accompanied by some form of praise for why our preacher, building, gathering is so great. Jesus himself did almost the opposite. While there is joy and fruit in the spiritual realm, our walk here is a process of death, and being a body with other messy believers - is really hard. Just like marriage and managing family relationships - is messy, and hard - they are the same model, after all - if you believe in the biblical model of how society and family should work. So, while its simple - none of it easy, and dubious that it will be really gratifying in any material physical way. It seems to me that NT model of growing the Church body was mostly achieved by going OUT of their own circles to socialize God's message of love into the broader community, building new little cells, which then continue to spawn and multiply. It may be interesting to note that this is essentially Fick's fundamental diffusion equation at work... This growth model is mostly characterized by small size, simple flat structure, low overhead, naturally optimized for rapid reproduction. The fairly well documented (in Christian circles) underground house Church movement in China is much closer to the original NT model, and is far better optimized for growth (from a scientific perspective) as far as I can tell. Since all Christian's fundamental purpose is to spread the good news, this may be an important concept to chew on.

Historical data (as far as I can discern) seems to raise some serious questions about the Church model that much of the modern western world seems to push.

Bottom line, IMO the "stuff" that one is supposed to get out of meeting and living with other Christians - is most definitely vital - without it Christians will be robbing both themselves and the body of fullness of God's design/purpose for us all to be "working out our salvation" together. However, how we all do this has a lot of room for options, culturally and structurally.

Seeking to exchange ideas, not inflame or be polemic. We're all on a journey...

Peace & love,

p

Last edited by phreaticus; 10-01-2018 at 11:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 09-27-2018, 4:05 PM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 462
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

@phreaticus - what a relief to read something thoughtful for a change. Thanks for chiming in. I'll gladly give your recommended book a glance.

I don't expect to change anybody's mind. If anything, I'm a firm believer that we all know far less than we think so it's all the more important to be flexible and deferential to others in how they work out their faith for themselves, rather than rigidly prescriptive.

@Ramclap -- Decades? I guess we agree then. Decades is a long time to be without a temple or synagogue. What's a few months or years as a break?

Funny thing, I saw one of my old professors at a funeral recently. He was encouraging me to come to his church, which my friend and former classmate happens to be pastoring right now. But when I told him that I had to step away from church for my own sanity years ago, he laughed and said, "I should have done that 40 years ago!" Indeed, even devout Christians need a break from time to time.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 09-28-2018, 11:15 AM
phreaticus phreaticus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 134
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

@CVS

Thx for reading my ramblings. I also enjoy meaningful dialog on these topics and find it hard to find folks with the same interests. My Christian buddies think I'm a heathen and my heathen buddies think I'm a Churchy nutjob. Whats a guy to do, except go shoot lots of holes in paper a few times per week and sort it out on CalGuns?

I wrote my last message quickly in between work meetings yesterday. Struck me that this is a much more meaningful topic than anything else in my work or gun enthusiast pursuits, so after dwelling on the topic a bit, I cleaned up my post a bit. I liked your story about your old prof - telling indeed.

Hope to see the discussion continue.

Cheers,

pete

Last edited by phreaticus; 09-28-2018 at 11:19 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 09-29-2018, 1:09 PM
Mish2A Mish2A is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 12
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

This has been really beneficial.
Iíll be at church tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 09-29-2018, 1:22 PM
WASR10's Avatar
WASR10 WASR10 is offline
Just Me
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Inland Empire
Posts: 2,398
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mish2A View Post
This has been really beneficial.

Iíll be at church tomorrow.


Thatís great, man. I hope it goes well for you
__________________
Mark 16:16
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 09-29-2018, 5:42 PM
RAMCLAP's Avatar
RAMCLAP RAMCLAP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,088
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Yeah. Good on you Mish.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 10-01-2018, 9:10 AM
CVShooter CVShooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 462
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phreaticus View Post
@CVS

Whats a guy to do, except go shoot lots of holes in paper a few times per week and sort it out on CalGuns?
Truly, this is the heart of the matter. If King Solomon had guns, I'm sure that would have been the end of Ecclesiastes.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 5:15 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.