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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#121
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I'm not familiar with Suze Orman's kit, I used Quicken WIllmaker, but the basics should be the same. There is a mega-thread at ar15.com that is worth reading a couple times that details the trust process pretty good, http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=199942 .
I used Quicken Willmaker to create a Basic Trust. I made it as simple as possible for me and will keep it as an firearms-only trust. If I need to, I can create additional trusts later on for other estate planning. I made sure that I did not include any persons in my trust as beneficiary that are under 18 years old or are prohibited from receiving firearms. No Felons or Lautenberg-prohibited persons. Later on, if I want to pass on these firearms to a child, I will ammend the trust to clarify that the firearms must be held by the sucessor trustee until the child is of legal age. Once you have the trust created, all the paperwork is pretty much the same. As for trying the AOW path, trying to make your own, or buying one from a dealer? If building your own, Form 1 and $200 tax needed, but you don't need to include a Class 3 dealer. If you buy from a dealer, its on a Form 4 but the tax is only $5. But the dealer may have transfer fees that eat into that $195 savings if they are even willing to work with you, if they even know how. |
#122
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I'm down for that. I've got a line on a C&R shotgun that is calling out to be hacked.... Justin |
#123
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I hava question regarding a SBS. I friend of mine is selling his H&R Single Shot shotgun. My question is the required $200 a one time thing or is there a renewal fee?
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#124
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One time per owner.
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Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#125
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okay that is good to know because i was reading this from shotgunworld.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=80131 |
#126
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The C&R Remmy 870 is on it's way to start it's new life with me.
Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#128
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OK - this is AOW and not SBS:
I looked into the AOW tax thing a couple of weeks ago - 'cause I was confused. I emailed Serbu and another AOW manufacturer. Now transfering an already-papered AOW is a $5 tax. This I knew. (SBS is always $200) A citizen creating a new AOW must pay a $200 tax. This I had found out recently (had been under the misconception it was $5) My question was, what tax do I pay when I buy an AOW from a licensed AOW manufacturer? Ans: $5....not $200... Looks best just to buy an AOW from a manufacturer, rather than hunting up a Mossberg AOW, papering it, and shortening the barrel... Last edited by GuyW; 03-10-2008 at 11:49 AM.. |
#129
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Who is your transfer dealer going to be?
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#130
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GuyW,
As for the $5 vs. $200 issue, yup, that is known and it would be nice to be able to buy a premade AOW on a $5 Form 4 but the issue becomes finding a dealer willing to transfer an AOW to you and what his fee will be to do the transfer. Would $100 be an unreasonable price for doing the transfer, probably not with the price for an regular Title 1 dealer transfer approaching that today. So, now, your $195 difference is done to $95 if you can find someone willing to do it. My local Class 3 dealer wouldn't do it, didn't see how it was legal even with the AOW exemption spelled out in the code. Maybe after a bunch of Form 1 AOWs get approved, we can show the local dealer that we know what we are talking about when we want to get a legal Form 4 transfer done. Plus, most of us are probably gonna be doing the Form1/4 stuff on a trust, how does that affect the DROS process? So, for a $95 savings, right now a Form 1 is probably the easiest until we can iron out more of these questions. OH, when you emailed Serbu and the other manufacturer, did either of them mention CA dealers that would do a Form 4 to the public? |
#131
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+1 on that. IIRC there are a couple dealers down there in the San Diego area that other calgunners contacted to see if they would do a transfer. They got blown off by the dealers stating that AOWs were illegal under the CA SBS rules.
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#133
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"I just copied this from the RimfireCentral/Remington forum: For shotguns with removeable barrels, the code will be valid for the manufacture of the barrel; maybe for the receiver, as barrels do get switched around. According to the "Blue Book of Gun Values", the coding continues as follows: Month Codes: [first letter] B - L - A - C - K - P - O - W - D - E - R - X 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - 11 - 12 Year:______Code: [second (and third*) letters] 1950_______ WW 1951_______ XX 1952_______ YY 1953_______ ZZ 1954_______ A 1955_______ B 1956_______ C 1957_______ D 1958_______ E 1959_______ F 1960_______ G 1961_______ H 1962_______ J 1963_______ K 1964_______ L 1965_______ M 1966_______ N 1967_______ P 1968_______ R 1969_______ S 1970_______ T 1971_______ U 1972_______ W 1973_______ X 1974_______ Y 1975_______ Z 1976_______ I 1977_______ O 1978_______ Q 1979_______ V 1980_______ A 1981_______ B 1982_______ C 1983_______ D 1984_______ E 1985_______ F 1986_______ G 1987_______ H 1988_______ I 1989_______ J 1990_______ K 1991_______ L 1992_______ M 1993_______ N 1994_______ O 1995_______ P 1996_______ Q 1997_______ R 1998_______ S 1999_______ T * the years 1943 though 1953 had double letters: ie, MM = 1943 As maybe seen, the year code letters duplicate; some knowledge of when the model was introduced should resolve the actual year of manufacture." ************************************* The only "problem" I might have is with the C&R Remmy being NOT on the Fed's C&R list. I saw some pages with 870's being made in the 40's (along with the code reference above), but didn't see any FS and couldn't spell out the process to identify to potential sellers clearly enough. Plus even those weren't "listed" so I bought the easier to find '52 I won on Gunbroker. Michigan has the same C&R SBR/SBS laws as CA, and some have done the C&R 870 already (as have some CA guys but don't know who). I'll just have to go along and do what's I gotta do's! Form my NFA trust is next on the process..... Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
Last edited by Roccobro; 03-10-2008 at 1:05 PM.. |
#134
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I'm the guy from MI that started this all. My 870 was made in 1952. As for not being on the C&R list, all firearms 50 years or older qualify as C&R. Also those looking for C&R 870s, I found 2 at a shop here in MI. I already bought 2 for myself so I don't need any more.
I never thought my first form 1 would have such implications in California. |
#135
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Justin, thanks for the info on the 870s. One thing you may want to do is contact Remington and get a letter from them confirming the manufacturing date. I got a letter from Ithaca for my M37 stating the year of manufacture.
DrDremel, see what you started. Last edited by ke6guj; 03-10-2008 at 2:55 PM.. |
#136
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Quote:
Justin
__________________
[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#137
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__________________
07 Class II in the Bay area. Enjoy the silence....... Celebrating our madness for over 50 years. Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul; the other for your freedom. - George Patton |
#140
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To build a AOW, the original gun needs to have a factory PG correct? Also how old do we have to be to be build a SBS or AOW? I hoping its not 21 because i dont want to miss the boat before laws change.
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#141
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Yes, if you wanted to make an shotgun-style AOW if would need to have been made with a factory PG and have never had a buttstock attached. There are other AOW options out there that can have a buttstock but those are more rare options. Most people doing an AOW are gonna be be doing the shotgun-style PG AOW.
IIRC, you only need to be 18 to build on a Form 1 (SBS or AOW), but need to be 21 to buy on a Form 4. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=228704 . The problem for you will be that in order to buy a PG shotty, you need to be 21 so gaining possession of one may be a problem. Last edited by ke6guj; 03-10-2008 at 11:34 PM.. |
#143
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Waiting for my paperwork. I installed a gold bead into the solid rib at about 13"... I suppose I could go ahead and have the barrel engraved now so I would be ready to cut when the letter from ATF arrives.
Standard trophy engraver should be able to handle it, right? |
#144
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I'm hoping so. I need to talk to the local trophy shop and see what they can do. Just have the regs for how the engraving needs to be done (size and depth), and confirm that they can do it while you wait.
edit: For the 37, I'll probably have the barrel engraved, but on the Mossberg AOW, I'll probably have the receiver engraved so I can play with different barrels. |
#145
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Justin
__________________
[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#146
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http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...cfr479.102.htm Quote:
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#148
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So the reg says marking the barrel is acceptable, but also can't be easily removed, so does that mean you can mark a barrel if it is threaded or pinned, but must mark the receiver on something like a shotgun where the barrel is easily removed?
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#149
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I was wondering the same thing. My Ithaca 37 barrel is intended to be removed.
Last edited by vandal; 03-13-2008 at 8:14 AM.. |
#150
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I read it as, the markings themselves must not be easily removed, not that the barrel that they are marked on can't be removed. Note that the same verbage regarding removeability in the serial number marking requirements on the receiver. If it was an issue, the regulations should have stated that it could only be marked on a non-removable barrel. And how do you make a barrel that can't be removed? Welded, blind-pinned, or machined as part of the receiver?
vandal, if you look at your 37, you'll notice that the removable barrel already has all the make, model, and caliber markings. |
#151
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Remington Model 11
So I just found this thread, and I think I've got a plan. I was given a Remington Model 11 by my Grandfather some time back, and it's just been sitting here gathering dust.
I had a question though. I think I know the answer, but I want to be sure. C&R status doesn't have to be registered, does it? It is just a status determined by the age of the firearm? So here's my plan, let me know if I mess anything up. -Complete a trust (probably via Quicken). -Get a letter from Remington verifying age of shotgun (just to be safe) -Form 1 w/ $200 tax to ATF, await return. -Engrave a spare barrel w/ trust name and location of manufacturer (on the barrel itself is ok, yes? doesn't have to be on the receiver? I want to purchase a spare barrel for the project). -Get approved form 1 back from ATF -Have a gunsmith cut the barrel down (for an OAL of a bit over 30", I can cut it down to just past the handguard). |
#152
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As for doing the markings and cutdown on a spare barrel, its nice to be able to keep the original barrel for restoration. However, be aware that even if you put the original 18+" barrel back on, it is technically still a registered SBS, and all the SBS rules apply, such as possession rules and interstate transportation. I do not know if it would be legal to put the original barrel back on while the shotgun is a registered SBS without there being any of the required markings. However, keeping the original barrel unmarked would be a good idea if you decided that you wanted to have the shotgun removed from the registry and returned it back to the original configuration. If you wanted to do that, you can write the ATF to have them remove it from the registry. They will send you back a letter stating that the shotgun has been noted as being returned to Title 1 status and is no longer a registered SBS. |
#153
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The Remington 11 is one of the only firearm designs which doesnt SBR well
As a straight recoil operated semi auto with a barrel that recoils rearward, you can't cut it shorter than a little over a shells length in front of the mag tube cap. which is over 18 inches... so there really is no point to it unless you shorten the mag tube/for end assembly, which is a rather big deal on a remmy 11 If you need a C&R gun to SBS I can point you at a few candidates that are better for your project. |
#154
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That would be much appreciated. Don't care whether it's semi or pump, but I just can't resist having a SBS....then I'll just have to fill out that interstate travel form when I move to AZ. |
#155
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Local trophy store can NOT engrave. Laser engraving is not capable of the barrel hardness. He recommended an industrial engraver, or stamping. He did not know anyone. Refreshingly, he was gun-friendly -- taking a guess at what kind of gun the barrel was from (model 12?)
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#156
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#159
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A 1951 28" 12ga 870 is being offered for sale on my thread at Gunbroker.com if anybody is interested.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.as...90712� EDIT:He wants $250 for it. I can get his info if your not a GB member. Justin
__________________
[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
Last edited by Roccobro; 03-26-2008 at 5:31 PM.. |
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