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  #1  
Old 05-13-2017, 2:23 AM
tacj tacj is offline
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Default Clarification on LCM

I'm looking for some clarification regarding LCM and the ridiculous laws that were passed recently. I've read so many contradicting things, I'm just going to flat out and ask directly.

I built a BB AR prior to 1/1/17 and plan to register it as an assault weapon when that becomes available.

Can I currently lawfully use a LCM in my rifle without violating PC 30515(a)(2)? After registering with doj I will have no problems correct?

I'm sworn under 830.



Sorry for such a trash first post, I'm not much of a forum posting type of person. I just lurk, and I've been lurking here for years.

Last edited by tacj; 05-13-2017 at 2:29 AM..
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  #2  
Old 05-13-2017, 4:40 AM
CaptMike CaptMike is offline
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At this point, the answer is no. Once you insert the standard capacity magazine, you violate the assault weapons laws. This may remain as is once registration occurs as well. Being sworn has no bearing.

There is talk that once the registration happend, you may be able to remove the bullet button and run it free as any other regusteted assault weapon. That will be up to the DOJ as they will establish the rules based on their interpretation of the written law. Lawsuits will follow and several years from now you will have a clear answer to your question. At this point you cannot insert a standard capacity magazine in to a bullet button rifle.
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  #3  
Old 05-13-2017, 4:57 AM
tacj tacj is offline
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Thanks for the info CaptMike.

Retirement can't come soon enough...
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  #4  
Old 05-13-2017, 6:36 AM
Redwoodm4 Redwoodm4 is offline
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BB ar with 10 round mag prior to 2017 = not an assault weapon

BB ar 10 round mag after 2017 = assault weapon
BB ar legally possessed 30 rd mag inserted = assault weapon


By inserting a high cap mag into a assault weapon you legally possess still is an assault weapon.
Just my take on it, can someone show the pc that this is not the case

Last edited by Redwoodm4; 05-13-2017 at 6:42 AM..
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  #5  
Old 05-13-2017, 6:42 AM
SoCalDep SoCalDep is online now
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That's my take as well Redwoodm4...

That said, You make your choices and take your chances.
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  #6  
Old 05-13-2017, 10:33 AM
CaptMike CaptMike is offline
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Tacj
I hear you. The laws are so screwed up here in this wonderful state. Im looking forward to retirement as well but I am unfortunately going to still deal with these stupid laws. The wife refuses to move when we retire so im stuck.

As the above to gents stated, there are some issues with the interpretation of the law. Unfortunately, Someone will have to be a test case, to see how the law is interpreted. Can you insert that 30 rounder in a bullet button rifle once registered, what most believe is yes, but you know the state will try to make an example of someone. They will go to court and the judge may ask the AG for an opinion. The current AG is very anti gun, so i have a feeling i know how he would interpret the law.

It is sad what this state has turned in to.

Last edited by CaptMike; 05-13-2017 at 10:40 AM..
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  #7  
Old 05-13-2017, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMike View Post
At this point, the answer is no. Once you insert the standard capacity magazine, you violate the assault weapons laws. This may remain as is once registration occurs as well. Being sworn has no bearing.

There is talk that once the registration happend, you may be able to remove the bullet button and run it free as any other regusteted assault weapon. That will be up to the DOJ as they will establish the rules based on their interpretation of the written law. Lawsuits will follow and several years from now you will have a clear answer to your question. At this point you cannot insert a standard capacity magazine in to a bullet button rifle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodm4 View Post
BB ar with 10 round mag prior to 2017 = not an assault weapon

BB ar 10 round mag after 2017 = assault weapon
BB ar legally possessed 30 rd mag inserted = assault weapon


By inserting a high cap mag into a assault weapon you legally possess still is an assault weapon.
Just my take on it, can someone show the pc that this is not the case
Two very instructive posts above.

As a sworn LEO you can purchase (with agency approval) an Assault Weapon, and then personally register it with DOJ. You would then be free to legally use that RAW with a large capacity magazine. As an LEO, you remain able to possess large-capacity magazines after the July deadline making them illegal for commoners. You should be aware that the Attorney General has issued an opinion that a weapon so acquired must be relinquished when you leave service.

If you were to place a large capacity magazine into a centerfire rifle, you would be manufacturing an Assault Weapon. It's worth noting that as a peace officer you may legally purchase an Assault Weapon, but you may not legally manufacture an Assault Weapon.

It is still unknown whether it will be legal to use a lawfully possessed large-capacity magazine with SB-880 registered Assault Weapons. The withdrawn DOJ regulations would have made it illegal. We don't know what the future regulations will provide.
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Last edited by RickD427; 05-13-2017 at 5:42 PM..
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  #8  
Old 05-13-2017, 2:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMike View Post
Im looking forward to retirement as well but I am unfortunately going to still deal with these stupid laws. The wife refuses to move when we retire so im stuck.
^^^ I feel your pain. My "warden" (wife) feels the same as yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMike
^^^ It is sad what this state has turned in to.
I blame the Russians! Seems to be working for the Dems.....
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  #9  
Old 05-13-2017, 3:13 PM
tacj tacj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
As a sworn LEO you can purchase (with agency approval) an Assault Weapon, and then personally register it with DOJ. You would then be free to legally use that RAW with a large capacity magazine. As an LEO, you remain able to possess large-capacity magazines after the July deadline making them illegal for commoners. You should be aware that the Attorney General has issued an opinion that a weapons so acquired must be relinquished when you leave service.

If you were to place a large capacity magazine into a centerfire rifle, you would be manufacturing an Assault Weapon. It's worth noting that as a peace officer you may legally purchase an Assault Weapon, but you may not legally manufacture an Assault Weapon.

It is still unknown whether it will be legal to use a lawfully possessed large-capacity magazine with SB-880 registered Assault Weapons. The withdrawn DOJ regulations would have made it illegal. We don't know what the future regulations will provide.

Good info, thanks for the reply. I'm not able to go the agency approval route, so that's off the table for me.

What is confusing, is since these weapons magically became assault weapons as of 1/1/17 we're not manufacturing something that already exists right? But I guess there's already tons of pages of discussion on these technicalities and interpretations.


Quote:
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The wife refuses to move when we retire so im stuck.
I feel for you man.
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  #10  
Old 05-13-2017, 5:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacj View Post
Good info, thanks for the reply. I'm not able to go the agency approval route, so that's off the table for me.

What is confusing, is since these weapons magically became assault weapons as of 1/1/17 we're not manufacturing something that already exists right? But I guess there's already tons of pages of discussion on these technicalities and interpretations.
The idea that you can't manufacture something that was already manufactured kinda went out the window after Broughman v Carver (a Fourth Circuit decision) and the incorporation of "Broughman-ish" definition of "Manufacturing" being adopted by California in Penal Code section 29180(a).

The bottom line is that you would be "Manufacturing" an Assault Weapon by placing a large-capacity magazine into the magazine well.
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  #11  
Old 05-13-2017, 5:57 PM
tacj tacj is offline
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What a cluster f*ck of laws we have.

I'm over it, I'm just going turn my collection in and pick up a couple of squirt guns. Those are still legal right?
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  #12  
Old 05-13-2017, 6:08 PM
Redwoodm4 Redwoodm4 is offline
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So with the reasoning that you will manufacture an assault weapon by inserting a large cap mag what make officers exempt inserting them in their duty weapons or people who have RAWs from previous registrations.

Obviously the doj realized as of 2017 people could remove bb since they drafted CCRs to prohibit it. If it was already prohibited why would they feel the need to draft the withdrawn regs.
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  #13  
Old 05-13-2017, 6:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodm4 View Post
So with the reasoning that you will manufacture an assault weapon by inserting a large cap mag what make officers exempt inserting them in their duty weapons or people who have RAWs from previous registrations.

Obviously the doj realized as of 2017 people could remove bb since they drafted CCRs to prohibit it. If it was already prohibited why would they feel the need to draft the withdrawn regs.
For the reply to your question regarding officers duty weapons, please refer to Penal Code section 30630.

For the reply to your question about previously registered Assault Weapons, please refer to Penal Code section 30680.

For a reply to your question regarding DOJ's rationale for withdrawing the AW regulations, contact DOJ, I'm not their spokesman.
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  #14  
Old 05-19-2017, 9:48 AM
Redwoodm4 Redwoodm4 is offline
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With the new regs out anyone have any additional thoughts on this. It would be nice if doj clarifies this. I think a lot of officers will assume once they register there bb rifle they will be able to use high cap mags
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  #15  
Old 05-19-2017, 7:53 PM
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I would rather not have DOJ clarify this, because I think we know what they'd say. Per the letter of the law a registered AW can have high caps in it. Even if that gun has a fixed magazine, which a bullet button now isn't. Clear as mud?
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