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  #1  
Old 03-07-2008, 5:03 PM
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Last edited by 10TH AMENDMENT; 11-25-2009 at 1:21 PM..
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  #2  
Old 03-07-2008, 9:30 PM
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I'm willing to bet you could put together a nicer rig than that for similar money.

I do like seeing a reticle like that, though. I sure wish ACOG would put one in their Accupoint!

You'd also need to check if that would fit on a flat-top without an extended rail.
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Old 03-07-2008, 9:45 PM
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I think the Burris XTR series is a good line of scopes.

As far as ballistic reticles are concerned, I'm not a fan of those. A ballistic reticle is designed for a specific bullet moving at a specific muzzle velocity. I'd have to go digging through my SHOT Show stuff which has a Burris product sheet on their 5.56 Reticle, but I'm pretty sure it's designed for M855 out of a 20" barrel. I guess for a fast shooting combat situation, it serves as a nice reference guide for how much to hold over without having to actually adjust your elevation knobs.
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  #4  
Old 03-07-2008, 9:57 PM
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If its a true 1 power and the reticle is bright enough to see in bright sunlight when on I don't see the need for the red dot. I'd like to see one up close. Does anybody have one? I've seen a couple on-line places that say they have them in stock.

I don't know how you can put a "nicer" rig together for less money. The only 1-4x 30mm scopes that are close are the Millet $250, ok maybe but the illumination is so dim you can't tell its on in daylight and the glass itsn't that great, Meopta $700+, no mount or red dot but a good illuminated reticle but no ranging, and Valdada IOR $850+, good ranging reticle but its a 1.1-4x and at 1.1x there's some distortion and the eye piece is big making it difficult to shoot both eyes open. The red dot will run a couple hundred by itself and then you need a mount. This looks like a deal but the unknown is how good the scope is.
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Old 03-07-2008, 10:38 PM
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You forgot the Accupoint, which can be had for about $500. That leaves $150 for the red-dot and $100 for mounts.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC View Post
If its a true 1 power and the reticle is bright enough to see in bright sunlight when on I don't see the need for the red dot. I'd like to see one up close. Does anybody have one? I've seen a couple on-line places that say they have them in stock.

I don't know how you can put a "nicer" rig together for less money. The only 1-4x 30mm scopes that are close are the Millet $250, ok maybe but the illumination is so dim you can't tell its on in daylight and the glass itsn't that great, Meopta $700+, no mount or red dot but a good illuminated reticle but no ranging, and Valdada IOR $850+, good ranging reticle but its a 1.1-4x and at 1.1x there's some distortion and the eye piece is big making it difficult to shoot both eyes open. The red dot will run a couple hundred by itself and then you need a mount. This looks like a deal but the unknown is how good the scope is.
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Old 03-08-2008, 6:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
You forgot the Accupoint, which can be had for about $500. That leaves $150 for the red-dot and $100 for mounts.

The Accupoint is a 1.25-4x so I didn't mention it, besides it's got the funky post which makes hold over tough. But if we include that the we might was well include all the 1.5's like the Simmons Pro-Diamond $50.00, Leupold $400+, Schmidt & Bender $2000 +/- and on and on.. So then yeah, lots of options. I was thinking about 1x scopes only because I'm on the hunt for the Holy Grail of 3-gun scopes.
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Old 03-08-2008, 6:34 AM
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Hmm, that looks perfect for 3gun.
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Old 03-08-2008, 7:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC View Post
... and Valdada IOR $850+, good ranging reticle but its a 1.1-4x and at 1.1x there's some distortion and the eye piece is big making it difficult to shoot both eyes open. ...
Can you explain this comment? The eyepiece isn't big enough to block your other eye. What's the problem with the eyepiece size?

Both eyes open with 1.1X - 1.5X mag isn't a problem for many people, if the scope has a bright, illuminated red dot. Depends on how your brain fuses images from your eyes. Trijicon claims that with an hour or so of practice, most soldiers can shoot ACOGs (3X-4X) with both eyes open, because of the bright chevron aiming reticle. It works for me.
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Old 03-08-2008, 9:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bruce_ventura View Post
Can you explain this comment? The eyepiece isn't big enough to block your other eye. What's the problem with the eyepiece size?

Both eyes open with 1.1X - 1.5X mag isn't a problem for many people, if the scope has a bright, illuminated red dot. Depends on how your brain fuses images from your eyes. Trijicon claims that with an hour or so of practice, most soldiers can shoot ACOGs (3X-4X) with both eyes open, because of the bright chevron aiming reticle. It works for me.

I guess I should have prefaced my comments with "for me". The eyepiece side of the Valdada is larger in dia than the Meopta, Millet and much larger than an ACOG and it has the illumination knob at 11 o'clock right on the eyepiece. FOR ME, with both eyes open there's allot of stuff there and its not as clear shooting fast up close as the Meopta which has the illumination knob in the middle of the scope.

Look, this is all personal preference and most scopes work it just depends on what you want to do with it. I was coming at this from a 3-gun standpoint were I want a true 1x (like a red dot with no distortion) for up close and a very clean 4x for the long stuff. I have an ACOG TA-11 now and its a better sight picture at 3.5x at 200 than the Millet at 4x because the glass is better IMHO. The trouble with shooting occluded (sp?) is depending on your eye dominance and brain (everybody is different) the point of impact can vary from a couple inches to off the target at 15 yards. With both eyes open for lots of people, myself included, the brain gravitates to the magnified side and the field of view goes away. For me is just not a fast when I need to hose down 22 targets with 2 rounds each in 20 seconds.
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  #10  
Old 03-08-2008, 9:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mecam View Post
Hmm, that looks perfect for 3gun.
For Open class yes but you can only have one optic in Tactical class.
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  #11  
Old 03-08-2008, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC View Post
If its a true 1 power and the reticle is bright enough to see in bright sunlight when on I don't see the need for the red dot.
The main difference is a 1x scope still has limited eye relief, while the red dot doesn't.

You'd have to line up in just the right place to get a good field of view at 1x on the scope, but with the red dot, as long as you can see the dot, you can put a round on target.
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Old 03-09-2008, 9:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocabj View Post
I guess for a fast shooting combat situation, it serves as a nice reference guide for how much to hold over without having to actually adjust your elevation knobs.
Shoot some long-range 3gun and you will appreciate it more.
Unfortunately, 3gun ranges are getting shorter over the last few years.
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Old 03-09-2008, 9:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC View Post
I'm on the hunt for the Holy Grail of 3-gun scopes.
The holy grail of 3gun scopes would be a meopta or IOR 1-4 or 1.1-4 with first focal plane ACOG NSN reticle.
The hash marks would work at all powers.
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Old 03-09-2008, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The holy grail of 3gun scopes would be a meopta or IOR 1-4 or 1.1-4 with first focal plane ACOG NSN reticle.
The hash marks would work at all powers.
I'd actually prefer the chevron/BDC in that same config.
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Old 03-09-2008, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaplinker View Post
I'd actually prefer the chevron/BDC in that same config.
Hash marks are more precise.
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Old 03-10-2008, 9:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The holy grail of 3gun scopes would be a meopta or IOR 1-4 or 1.1-4 with first focal plane ACOG NSN reticle.
The hash marks would work at all powers.
I've shot the Valdada 1.1-4 but like I said earlier the 1.1 and big eyepiece are less than perfect for me. I've also shot the Meopta but not the illuminted reticle model. The eye relief, small eye piece, lack of distortion at 1x are great. If the illuminated reticle model had ranging marks I think it would be perfect, I'll probally buy one anyway but perfection is always nice to shoot for.
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Old 03-11-2008, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10TH AMENDMENT View Post
Does Burris have a rep for good glass?
No.
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Old 03-11-2008, 10:14 AM
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Is it just me or is this a sweet looking set up? I'm gonna read up on this bad boy.
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