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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 03-12-2018, 3:19 PM
kriller134 kriller134 is offline
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Default Rifle build

I have a bighorn origin action on preorder and should be getting it by summer. Hereís what I have in mind for parts.

Bighorn Origin
MPA BA Competition Chassis
Calvin elite 2 stage or trigger tech not sure yet
Criterion, shilen, pva Pre-fits barrel? Or shouldered barrel?
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Old 03-13-2018, 4:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriller134 View Post
I have a bighorn origin action on preorder and should be getting it by summer. Here’s what I have in mind for parts.

Bighorn Origin
MPA BA Competition Chassis
Calvin elite 2 stage or trigger tech not sure yet
Criterion, shilen, pva Pre-fits barrel? Or shouldered barrel?

Bighorn Origin...great action but personally id of opted for a TL-3 if i was limited to big horn

MPA BA Competition Chassis...im a chassis hater but i love this chassis...im running one on my comp rifle as well as my 22

Calvin elite 2 stage or trigger tech not sure yet...neither one...while i shot the CE for several years and it is a great trigger i recently switch to a Bix n Andy two stage tac sport and wish ida done it a LONG time ago

Criterion...ive only shot one of the criterions and will NEVER buy another ive SEEN to many ppl have issues with them

shilen...great barrels but id take a pre-fit bartlein fromm bug holes if my only choice was a pre-fit

pva Pre-fits barrel...can not comment no experience with them

Or shouldered barrel...YES if you want your rifle set up the best it can be buy a blank and have it chambered and fitted to your action

Last edited by longrange1; 03-13-2018 at 4:37 AM..
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriller134 View Post
I have a bighorn origin action on preorder and should be getting it by summer. Hereís what I have in mind for parts.

Bighorn Origin
MPA BA Competition Chassis
Calvin elite 2 stage or trigger tech not sure yet
Criterion, shilen, pva Pre-fits barrel? Or shouldered barrel?

I have used prefits from Bergara, Shilen, Criterion and Pac-Nor, for Savage target Actions and Remington 700's and a 783. All attach with barrel nuts, with the Shilen and Pac-Nor being the most accurate, especially the Pac-Nor polygonal rifling Super Match barrels. One 700 action has three barrels chambered for ,22-250 Remington, .22-250 Ackley and .308 Winchester. I lost nothing using the prefit configuration with a barrel nut.

.223 Remington, 10 shots 100 yards, Savage Target Action, Pac-Nor polygonal 1:9" Twist:



Remington 700 with prefit Bergara varmint barrel, cost $285.00, 1-12" twist, first test loads:



First 10 shots from Shilen Varmint contour Match barrel, .204 Ruger 1:12" twist, settled after two shots:



Finally, .308 Winchester Pac-Nor barrel, 1:10" polygonal rifling, on same action as Bergara barrel above. 10 Shots at 100 yards:



Don't sell the prefits short, and you can swap barrels yourself in a few minutes.
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Old 03-13-2018, 2:45 PM
kriller134 kriller134 is offline
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Thanks guys for the info. The pacnor and shilen barrel looks great. Does bartlin make a Pre-fits barrel?
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Old 03-13-2018, 3:55 PM
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I'm happy with my short-chambered Shilen pre-fit on a Rem 700. Chambers finished with a Manson pull-thru reamer.

Last edited by smoothy8500; 03-13-2018 at 4:00 PM..
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Old 03-13-2018, 6:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kriller134 View Post
Does bartlin make a Pre-fits barrel?
No.
People who use bartlein barrels are looking for the highest possible quality/accuracy attainable.

That is always achieved with a properly shouldered/fitted barrel.
Pre-fit barrels have to have threads at "nominal" dimension so that they will screw into every example of a specific model.
That means the threads fit loosly in most receivers.

When a barrel is fitted to a specific receiver, the thread fit can be tightened up so that the barrel has almost no slop.
This can make a significant difference in accuracy.

Go read Harold Vaugh's book "Rifle accuracy facts".
He does an experiment on thread fit and directly documents the movement of the barrel within the reciever that is attributed to the "factory" thread fit compared to a custom thread fit.
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Old 03-13-2018, 6:08 PM
kriller134 kriller134 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
No.
People who use bartlein barrels are looking for the highest possible quality/accuracy attainable.

That is always achieved with a properly shouldered/fitted barrel.
Pre-fit barrels have to have threads at "nominal" dimension so that they will screw into every example of a specific model.
That means the threads fit loosly in most receivers.

When a barrel is fitted to a specific receiver, the thread fit can be tightened up so that the barrel has almost no slop.
This can make a significant difference in accuracy.

Go read Harold Vaugh's book "Rifle accuracy facts".
He does an experiment on thread fit and directly documents the movement of the barrel within the reciever that is attributed to the "factory" thread fit compared to a custom thread fit.


Thanks for the info Randall. What do you charge to chamber and fit a barrel?
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Old 03-13-2018, 6:09 PM
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Thanks for the info Randall. What do you charge to chamber and fit a barrel?
$250
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Old 03-13-2018, 7:20 PM
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$250


Does that include muzzle threading?
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  #10  
Old 03-13-2018, 10:06 PM
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Does that include muzzle threading?
No.
My bolt action services are all explained and priced on 700barrels.com.
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Old 03-14-2018, 4:41 AM
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Originally Posted by kriller134 View Post
Thanks guys for the info. The pacnor and shilen barrel looks great. Does bartlin make a Pre-fits barrel?
bartlein directly does not but like i said in my post above southern precision rifles(bug holes)does...but once you factor everything in you can have a smith install a barrel and it would cost a little less.

ive shot several pre-fit barrels and they shot good but not as good as a fitted shouldered barrel.

http://www.bugholes.com/category-s/2041.htm

Last edited by longrange1; 03-14-2018 at 4:43 AM..
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  #12  
Old 03-14-2018, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
bartlein directly does not but like i said in my post above southern precision rifles(bug holes)does...but once you factor everything in you can have a smith install a barrel and it would cost a little less.

ive shot several pre-fit barrels and they shot good but not as good as a fitted shouldered barrel.

http://www.bugholes.com/category-s/2041.htm


Thanks for that. I gotta do some thinking. Iím trying to stay in a 2300 budget for the rifle. Iím thinking a shouldered barrel is going to kill my budget or I have to skimp out on the chassis or bite the bullet and go all out, but thatís irresponsible haha.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:45 AM
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The problem with skimping is you regret it after words...trust me I know first hand


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Old 03-14-2018, 7:19 PM
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You chose some spendy components for that budget. Chassis, action, and trigger in the OP are going to eat a lot of that 2300. Cutting back a little in those areas would allow you more for your barrel.
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Old 03-14-2018, 7:49 PM
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skimping out on the barrel is the last thing you want to do. Most chassis do the same thing, same with the trigger and action.

Most will argue scopes are an area you do not want to skimp on and I agree.

But, barrels can make or break the rifle. Get a bad barrel, bad chambering or mediocre quality anything with respect to the barrel and the gun will not shoot well regardless.
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Old 03-14-2018, 7:58 PM
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Well I had originally planned to spend 400 on a prefit barrel thinking max for a barrel being around 550. But pricing out a shouldered barrel is gonna be around 700. With all fairness, Iím a **** shooter, so I donít even think Iím able to up to the potential of a custom fitted barrel. I might be better off saving the 300 bucks for reloading components and getting more trigger time. Things I need to ponder.
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Old 03-14-2018, 8:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kriller134 View Post
Well I had originally planned to spend 400 on a prefit barrel thinking max for a barrel being around 550. But pricing out a shouldered barrel is gonna be around 700. With all fairness, Iím a **** shooter, so I donít even think Iím able to up to the potential of a custom fitted barrel. I might be better off saving the 300 bucks for reloading components and getting more trigger time. Things I need to ponder.
The barrel and fitting job are the number one factor in accuracy.
The barrel is more important then EVERYTHING else.
The action does not matter.
Any stock that properly floats the barrel and holds the reciever can be as accurate as any other stock.
Trim money anywhere else but the barrel.
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Old 03-15-2018, 4:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriller134 View Post
Well I had originally planned to spend 400 on a prefit barrel thinking max for a barrel being around 550. But pricing out a shouldered barrel is gonna be around 700. With all fairness, Iím a **** shooter, so I donít even think Iím able to up to the potential of a custom fitted barrel. I might be better off saving the 300 bucks for reloading components and getting more trigger time. Things I need to ponder.
this is a good plan....what caliber are you going with?
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Old 03-15-2018, 9:17 AM
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this is a good plan....what caliber are you going with?


Iím currently setup for reloading 6.5 creed, so Iím leaning that way. Iím also thinking going 6mm. Thereís a pretty good thread on the hide thatís comparing prefit vs shouldered. Gonna wait till the results and conclusion are back.
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:31 AM
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im sure you know but the 6mm barrel life is quite a bit less than the 6.5.

i shot a 6CM for the last 2 years and went through 4.5 barrels not counting a bad one...just something to think about when considering a 6mm if the cost of barrels/chambering is a concern.
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:59 AM
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im sure you know but the 6mm barrel life is quite a bit less than the 6.5.



i shot a 6CM for the last 2 years and went through 4.5 barrels not counting a bad one...just something to think about when considering a 6mm if the cost of barrels/chambering is a concern.


Wow what kind of round counts are you getting?
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Old 03-15-2018, 12:16 PM
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just under 1700 was the best...1670 i think...1500 in one...1425 1450 in one 1550 in one...and one i never finished off...the one bad barrel shot 1/2-3/4" for about 600 rounds then just got so unpredictable i pulled it.

keep in mind i shoot quite a few comps and a lot of practice so barrels are run hot and hard...i switched to a 6.5x47 for this season and since mid or late december ive got 1698 rounds through this barrel...i switched because of the barrel life in the 6mm i hoping to see around 3000 rounds through the 47.
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Old 03-15-2018, 2:32 PM
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just under 1700 was the best...1670 i think...1500 in one...1425 1450 in one 1550 in one.
People think I'm lying when I say that most short action 0.473" case head 6mm's are only good for about 1600 rounds of barrel life.
Start watching your 6.5 very closely after 2300 rounds.
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Old 03-15-2018, 2:41 PM
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1600 if your being nice to them.

And I know 3000 is wishful thinking but it canít hurt to dream lol


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Old 03-15-2018, 7:36 PM
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Killer134
The three most important things to accuracy or the barrel the barrel and lastly the barrel. I see people posting all the time that they can't shoot very good but every time I put one of them behind one of my guns they shoot one of the smallest groups they have ever fired.
On your first custom barrel I would lean to a shouldered barrel. If after wearing that barrel out you don't think it was worth it you can always switch to a barrel nut type setup on your next barrel.
To my way of thinking the biggest advantage to the barrel nut type setups is you don't have to wait in line for a gunsmith to fit a barrel.
The fact that competitive shooters are willing to wait in line for certain gunsmiths speaks volumes to my way of thinking as well.
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Old 05-14-2018, 1:06 PM
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Just an update. I got a smoking deal on a mdt ess chassis. It came in today. So that frees up a good amount of my budget, so Iím gonna get a bartlein barrel and have Randall spin it up. That being said, if I want a 26Ē barrel, should I order the exact length or go longer and have it cut down?

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Old 05-14-2018, 2:23 PM
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Awesome find there on the MDT chassis. That will work very well for your project.

You want a 28"-30" blank to end up with a 26" finished barrel.. Randall is going to cut about an inch off each end.

What profile are you going to get?
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Old 05-14-2018, 3:22 PM
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WRT a Remage barrel nut setup, I saw a yootube on the West Texas Ordnance Switch Lug setup that looks pretty cool. Not horrendously expensive either. Except maybe you have to send the whole rifle when they make new barrels so they can headspace them?

If you're shooting 6mm maybe get a couple three at the start.
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Old 05-14-2018, 4:18 PM
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Sig they do not need the rifle for a remage barrel the head space is set by the end user which it the appeal of the barrel nut set up.

To the OP...stick to your plan and buy a barrel blank have Randal chamber it.


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Old 05-14-2018, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post
Awesome find there on the MDT chassis. That will work very well for your project.

You want a 28"-30" blank to end up with a 26" finished barrel.. Randall is going to cut about an inch off each end.

What profile are you going to get?


Thanks! Iím not sure what profile yet. Iím thinking m24/40 or medium Palma or even marksman. Do you have any suggestions? Iím mostly going to be shooting prone, so weight isnít an issue. Iím leaning towards the m24 just because I donít want the barrel to heat up too fast. Not sure if thatís a valid reason.
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Old 05-14-2018, 4:55 PM
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Heavy Palma IMHO is the perfect contour...heavy enough that it donít wonder when hot and light enough you can move with it.


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Old 05-14-2018, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks! Iím not sure what profile yet. Iím thinking m24/40 or medium Palma or even marksman. Do you have any suggestions? Iím mostly going to be shooting prone, so weight isnít an issue. Iím leaning towards the m24 just because I donít want the barrel to heat up too fast. Not sure if thatís a valid reason.


The M40 is about as heavy as Iíd go on a practical rifle. If your going for a F-Class or Bench Rest, where your shooting 20 round strings in a matter of minutes, then you want a full bull. I have a Krieger in Remington Varmint. I too mostly shoot prone with it, but itís not heavy to shoot on sticks or a tri-pod when I need too.

So it really comes down to the games your going to play and how long of string you plan to shoot.
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Old 05-14-2018, 5:25 PM
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interesting thread....learning a lot. hate to thread shift but could someone explain to me what a shouldered barrel is? thanks
and good luck with the build, looks great
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Old 05-14-2018, 5:31 PM
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Thanks guys. I have some pondering to do. Talked to the guys at bighorn and should be getting my action in mid August. Really looking forward to getting this built out.
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Old 05-14-2018, 5:53 PM
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Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
Heavy Palma IMHO is the perfect contour...heavy enough that it donít wonder when hot and light enough you can move with it.
I just put a Heavy Palma Hawk Hill blank on a Bighorn TL3 last week.
Definetly a chunky contour.
I'm partial to rem varmint or medium palma myself.
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Old 05-14-2018, 6:13 PM
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interesting thread....learning a lot. hate to thread shift but could someone explain to me what a shouldered barrel is?
A shouldered barrel is how most thread-in barrels are done.
Threads are cut on the breech end of the barrel, but the breech end is notably larger in diameter than the threads.
There ends up being a shoulder behind the threads.
This shoulder is tightened against the front of the receiver.

Here is a drawing with dimensions:
The barrel shank diameter is not shown, but it is 1.25" which is 0.2" larger than the breech threads.


A barrel nut barrel has a shank diameter that is the same diameter as the threads.



Then a nut is threaded on to the barrel.
The nut tightens against the front of the reciever to lock the barrel in place.
The advantage of a barrel nut is that the headspace is adjustable and therefore people can install them without machine work.

The disadvantage of a barrel nut is that headspace is adjustable and does not repeat to the same position each time you install it.
A barrel-nut system barrel can not have a contour larger than the breech threads.
Barrel-nut system barrels also have to be made with "nominal size" threads.
That means the threads are small enough to screw into every sample of receiver that they might ever be installed on.
Shouldered barrels can have threads cut to fit a specific reciever.
The fit between the barrel and reciever threads directly influences accuracy potential.
The more slop there is between the threads, the move a barrel can move on the reciever with each shot.
Shouldered barrels can be removed and re-installed without any change in headspace.
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Last edited by ar15barrels; 05-14-2018 at 6:20 PM..
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Old 05-14-2018, 6:37 PM
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Thank you so very much. I really appreciate it.
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Old 05-15-2018, 5:06 AM
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Quote:
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I just put a Heavy Palma Hawk Hill blank on a Bighorn TL3 last week.
Definetly a chunky contour.
I'm partial to rem varmint or medium palma myself.
im shooting a rem varmint right now and it just dont feel right...im so use to the heavy palmas and i shoot short-er barrels 24"...and love the hawkhills...the last 4 HHs have been the straightest barrels ive seen and they shoot lights out.
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Old 05-15-2018, 8:30 PM
kriller134 kriller134 is offline
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I just put a Heavy Palma Hawk Hill blank on a Bighorn TL3 last week.

Definetly a chunky contour.

I'm partial to rem varmint or medium palma myself.


Randal what are the pros and cons of a medium Palma compared to a m24/40?
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:40 PM
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Randal what are the pros and cons of a medium Palma compared to a m24/40?
With most stocks, a medium palma or rem varmint will balance better than an M24 or M40 unless you cut the M24 or M40 really short.

You need a really heavy stock to balance a heavier barrel.
The barrel length plays into this as well as the stock weight and stock CG.
There's no single right answer as all the parts depend on each other.

A 20" M24 or M40 barrel balances significantly different than a 26" M24 or M40 barrel given the same stock.

A 26" Rem Varmint or Medium Palma might balance really similar to a 20" M24 or M40 though.
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