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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

View Poll Results: Has your optic failed under fire and you had to use irons?
Optic failed 100% of engagements 1 2.33%
Optic failure 50 % of engagements 1 2.33%
Optic failed less than 25% of engagements 4 9.30%
Never had my optic fail 37 86.05%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 03-04-2018, 4:56 PM
WalterJones WalterJones is offline
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Default BUIS in combat? How often has your optic failed?

My name is Walter and I'm an irons-aholic...there I said it.

I decided to put this question here because I'd rather not have all the commentary from mall ninjas and armchair commandos.

For my brothers and sisters who've seen action in this century, how often have you, or known soldiers and Marines who have had to, use back up irons due to optic failure during a deployment?

Back in my day optics were issued sparsely if at all. I've also had my experiences and probably a little PTSD along with it.

Consequently irons are pounded in to my brain and I can't let go. I want to do a couple of AR uppers and just run quality optics, put the cost of good irons in to better glass.

But the OCD part of my brain won't let me sleep at night unless all irons are working properly and zeroed. Doesn't matter if it's only 1 rifle out of 10 that isn't up to par, it'll bug the crap out of me till I get to the range. The nature of OCD being a big PITA, it also doesn't matter that the only time I use irons is checking zeros to make sure my OCD is assuaged. And God help me if I have a weapon that doesn't have irons yet, a whatever stage of the build. It also doesn't matter if it's just a varmint gun and they aren't shooting back...today...cause they might start shooting back tomorrow

So I'm thinking, that if you guys have rarely, if at all, ever had to used your irons instead of optic, maybe I can let go a little bit. Or if it is common, back up my craziness form the experiences of others.

As a secondary useful piece of info, if you suffered optic failure, could you state the make and model, as well as any info you care to share?

Last edited by WalterJones; 03-04-2018 at 5:00 PM..
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  #2  
Old 03-04-2018, 5:36 PM
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etwinam etwinam is offline
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Buy a good optic and it won't fail. I have an MRO & Eotech and I have never had an issue with either of them. In fact I don't even run BUIS on either of my Ar's anymore. I don't need them.. they're just empty weight.

The way I look at it is Irons are for handguns and 1x Red dots are for close range rifles, magnified Scopes for long range.

I have lots of military buddies that still tell me how many times they have qualified Expert with irons to 500 yards and I have too but my theory is I can light a room with a match or I can use technology and light it with a flashlight, why wouldn't I? Why make things harder when there are better options now.

Anyways, good luck.
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Last edited by etwinam; 03-04-2018 at 5:39 PM..
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Old 03-04-2018, 8:19 PM
WalterJones WalterJones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etwinam View Post
...but my theory is I can light a room with a match or I can use technology and light it with a flashlight, why wouldn't I? Why make things harder when there are better options now.
Thanks for the insight. I'm naturally resistant to new technology. I can completely understand why the generals were hesitant to get those new fangled repeaters when the trap door rifles workes great and less chance of failure

But I'm going to try to let go and get with the times.
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Old 03-05-2018, 5:49 PM
PyroFox79 PyroFox79 is offline
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I've seen acogs fail. The seal breaks and they fog up immediately. Can still kinda use it but it's basically useless.

Then again nothing is Marine proof.
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Old 03-05-2018, 9:05 PM
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Before I start, Iíve never been in combat before so I canít say anything from that perspective. However, on all my long guns I run a cowitness set up utilizing a red dot or prism sight with MBUS. All optics are mounted on a QD rail as well. Great peace of mind and itís a setup thatís been user friendly for me. Just my 2 cents. Canít be too prepared.
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Old 03-07-2018, 4:10 AM
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I can only speak of a few different types of optics and my unique experience. Through different types of terrain and temperatures, neither my ACOG, Aimpoint, nor EO Tech have ever failed.

Some teammates did experience failure with the EOTechs however.

As for the ACOG, I did have to run a piece of 100 mile an hour tape over the illumination in order to control the brightness of the reticle.
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Old 03-07-2018, 4:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PyroFox79 View Post
I've seen acogs fail. The seal breaks and they fog up immediately. Can still kinda use it but it's basically useless.

Then again nothing is Marine proof.
The only time I have seen an acog fail is when someone tried to 'adjust' it too far. One of my buddies ran the optics shop though, and he did mention there being more failures than that. Like you said, nothing is Marine proof.
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  #8  
Old 03-07-2018, 6:07 PM
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In my opinion, for HD purposes, iron sights at night is not an optimal situation. My Eotech, turned down to the dim setting, is a huge advantage.
This is coming from another iron sights proponent....my A4 clone is my favorite AR to shoot. But I don't use it for HD.

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Old 03-07-2018, 6:52 PM
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Had my rifle fail, M16A2 blew up but the optic worked great to help direct fire of other weapons on target though. I was the only guy in my platoon with an optic (1995) ACOG prototype, very durable.
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Old 03-07-2018, 7:38 PM
WalterJones WalterJones is offline
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Thanks guys, your experience helps alot.

So I think I'll let go a little and keep the back ups serviceable and zeroed on my primary go to weapons and not get so uptight about my just for fun weapons.

Can't carry them all in a SHTF moment anyway, right?
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Old 03-07-2018, 8:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcourson View Post
The only time I have seen an acog fail is when someone tried to 'adjust' it too far. One of my buddies ran the optics shop though, and he did mention there being more failures than that. Like you said, nothing is Marine proof.
One thing I remember is the optics shop didn't work on acog. They sent them to trijicon for warranty repair. But I'm sure they saw every possible failure. I personally habe seen 3 fail but it was more likely due to just getting banged around and hit just right.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:30 PM
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never served. thanks to you that have. my two cents.

but I've run an Eotech in 3 gun and carbine matches for almost a decade and never had an issue other than having to change batteries. the red dot is WAY faster in close quarters.
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Old 03-10-2018, 9:41 AM
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All 3 times to the sandbox, I've never had my Acog's or Leupy fail.

For that reason, I run several on my recreational rifles. Granted, I have higher end scopes on other rifles, but the Acog's and my Leupold's will never leave my stable.
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Old 03-10-2018, 2:38 PM
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The higher quality optics probably will fail just as often as iron sights. You have to keep in mind that a decent blow can bend irons out of alignment. They're not bulletproof...
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Old 03-10-2018, 2:48 PM
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On a hunting trip where we went in on horseback. My horse hit a tree hard while freaking out not wanting to cross a bridge. The leather strap on the scabbard broke and the rifle got flung down onto some rocks. I didn't trust the gun to be zeroed and we had to test it in the field. That gave our position away to the deer but I found out the gun had definitely lost zero. If we wouldn't have checked I probably would have found the biggest deer ever and missed by a mile and been branded as having buck fever for life.
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Old 03-10-2018, 2:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexisjohnson View Post
The higher quality optics probably will fail just as often as iron sights. You have to keep in mind that a decent blow can bend irons out of alignment. They're not bulletproof...
Of course if you have a carry handle and standard FSB you have probably the iron sights least likely to get bent or broken in the history of modern military rifles.
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Old 03-11-2018, 11:18 PM
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I used a ACOG in AFG. It never failed in a year of hard use.
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Old 03-13-2018, 7:48 PM
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Had an acog on both deployments, neither time did it ever fail
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Old 03-24-2018, 9:21 AM
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A lot of people weighing in that didn't read the OP. Combat vets were the target audience.

I never saw an ACOG, M145, or M68 fail in my platoon. Those are all stout optics.

I did carry an M14 EBR with a Leupold during my deployment. I fell down some metal stairs one night and dented the scope body on the objective side. It did knock the zero off, but didn't break the seals to the objective lense(no fogging issues).

This was all in the Kunar province. It's a very harsh place, so the optics holding up impresses me.
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Old 03-24-2018, 9:23 AM
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who voted that their optics failed on 100% of engagements?

What's your story? One engagement and you went in with it not zeroed? LOL just busting balls.
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Old 03-25-2018, 3:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etwinam View Post
Buy a good optic and it won't fail. I have an MRO & Eotech and I have never had an issue with either of them. In fact I don't even run BUIS on either of my Ar's anymore. I don't need them.. they're just empty weight.
This, I've never had issues with multiple Eotechs on service rifles, and now a Aimpoint PRO, and a Trijicon MRO on personal rifles. But I still run Troy flip sights on them all.
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  #22  
Old 03-27-2018, 8:34 PM
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Had an acog during my tours. The only problems with it are the little cables that held the adjuster caps on ripped off, along with the rubber band that held on the ARD. Optic worked great though.
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Old 04-17-2018, 8:30 AM
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I've seen numerous M68s fail, saw three fail at the range last weekend, the soldier would put a fresh battery in, turn it on and within shooting a few rounds it would turn off, they would rotate the knob off and back on and it would work for another round or two and turn off again. Change the battery and repeat.

Now with that said, I stick to irons because my unit has few ACOGs and I'd rather others use them instead. I've never had an ACOG or my personal optics fail during deployments. I've used my personal ACOG, Micro T1, and US Optics scopes on issued rifles with no problems.
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Old 06-24-2018, 2:03 PM
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After three tours, each a year long, and dozens of jumps, sometimes in bad weather I never saw an issue optic fail.

I used an M68 and it was crazy tough. Of course I still had backup iron sights and use back up irons on all my rifles. Even my bolt action rifles have irons, which limited my selection when buying, but I'll never have only one way of aiming.
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Old 06-24-2018, 2:07 PM
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Drug my ACOG through dirt and mud. Even took it 60’ underwater. No failures yet.
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