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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

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  #1  
Old 01-07-2018, 11:27 AM
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Arrow need suggestions for snubby drills and targets

Have a (new-to-me) Smith & Wesson 8 shot 22lr snub-nose revolver that I want to learn to shoot. (I realize some ranges may not let me preform these drills.).

Surfed the web and found this; "Hardwired Tactical Snubby Super Test" from Shooting Drills by Greg Ellifritz.

I'm a beginner revolver shooter (have shot some da only in one class) and have limited practice with 1911's in 45 amp and CZ 75 in 9mm. Didn't do very well with the 1911 (could run through the rounds quickly but not place hits well), the CZ 75 just did it's thing and made me look great.

What targets and drills to start with (no holster work yet) and which drills to work towards. I'm hoping the San Leandro range will let me practice some of these.

Happy Holidays
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Old 01-08-2018, 6:04 AM
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From low ready, at start signal, engage target with two rounds. 7 yards. Use a BT5 target (human silhouette with orange center) or Q target( blue bowling pin).

From table or low ready, at start signal, engage target with 8 rounds. 15 yards. Using same targets as before.

Any repetition with a hit outside of the inner most scoring zone is a Fail. Record total number of Pass/Fail attempts of each run.
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Old 01-08-2018, 6:41 AM
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Thanks rmatt, will look for these targets
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Old 01-08-2018, 6:57 AM
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Dry fire first.
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Old 01-08-2018, 7:52 AM
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Thanks tanks, I do and asked about the practice; http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1412111
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Old 01-08-2018, 7:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tanks View Post
Dry fire first.
If I were trying to get proficient with a DA trigger this would be the method.
No need to waste ammo until you can get the front sight to stay still through the entire trigger pull.

Good luck and have fun.
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Old 01-08-2018, 2:22 PM
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Somewhere I read you practice at home (dry fire, drawing, etc) and the range is the "test".
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Old 01-08-2018, 3:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Friesland View Post
Somewhere I read you practice at home (dry fire, drawing, etc) and the range is the "test".
yep. live fire is the test of all the dry fire you do at home.

unless you got lots of money and own your own personal range time and have tons of ammo to shoot downrange, an average person can dry fire more than they can ever live fire a gun.

in front of the tv watching a show, dry fire + reload drills.
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Friesland View Post
Surfed the web and found this; "Hardwired Tactical Snubby Super Test" from Shooting Drills by Greg Ellifritz.
Before you try the test, it is important to have the skills listed above...trigger control.

Without good trigger control, all the finger speed in the world won't help you consistently place shots on target.

The nice thing about dry fire is that it is free. To maximize your practice, you need to be extremely honest in your practice. That means you need to focus on each trigger press...that is why you shouldn't practice dry firing at the TV or any other moving target until you really get down good trigger management at a static target.

Live fire is the validation of your dry fire practice.
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Old 01-10-2018, 6:49 AM
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"Before you try the test, it is important to have the skills listed above...trigger control." Thanks 9mmepiphany,

The above was just an example to work towards. How would you start a student off with practice and drills and a 22lr 8 shot AirLite revolver?

I understand the above drills are timed events. I do not have a timer and I should be able to do some kind of drill/practice very slowly concentrating on correct revolver handling.

Thanks and Happy Holidays
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Old 01-10-2018, 7:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Friesland View Post
"Before you try the test, it is important to have the skills listed above...trigger control." Thanks 9mmepiphany,

The above was just an example to work towards. How would you start a student off with practice and drills and a 22lr 8 shot AirLite revolver?

I understand the above drills are timed events. I do not have a timer and I should be able to do some kind of drill/practice very slowly concentrating on correct revolver handling.

Thanks and Happy Holidays
If you have a smart phone you have a shot timer
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...m.stimer&hl=en
I used this before I bought my Pact timer for home dry fire sessions.

Regards,
Mike
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Old 01-11-2018, 4:49 AM
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Ok, backing it up then.... If what you're trying to do is develop a good DA trigger pull then that is an entirely different question.

So what are you really asking? And what is your desired outcome? If the answer is "shoot good" then my answer back to you would be in the form of about 300 pages.
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  #13  
Old 01-11-2018, 5:40 AM
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Which model do you have?

It is a 22. Be careful with dry fire. Call S&W ask to see if that gun is safe to dry fire. ALWAYS USE SNAP CAPS for safety (forces you to unload the gun) and mechanical protection. S&W internal firing pins will break. Do not be like me and carry a 625 for a day with a broken firing pin!

Make sure to do The Wall Drill and The Bump Drill daily. Bruce Gray has a Bump Drill Army Marksmanship video on The Wall Drill is pretty good.

Also keep in mind recoil is a big deal for revolvers and snubbies in particular. Your skills will not translate over to centerfire. I couldn’t get 38 Special ammo during a few of the Obama Mega Sales years and shot my 17 almost exclusively for nine or ten months. I then attended a defensive class with my 327, 27 and 625. I had noticed I was having trouble, but the class brought everything to light. Nothing like controlled pairs, double taps and zippers to reveal every shooting error.

Trigger reset (forward movement) is AS IMPORTANT as pull on revolvers. Get into a rhythm. If you pull on a “one-two”, return the trigger forward on the same count. The Bump Drill will really help you here. It teaches you where the sear breaks, but on a revolver, it also teaches you what the reset is doing.

Do not stage the trigger unless you work very hard at reducing the pause every time. Your goal is to reduce the pause to nothing. I think it is better to just never do it while learning. Know HOW to do it, but do it in the context of an infrequent longer range shot that requires more accuracy.

Keep that front sight buried in that rear notch! It is very easy to let it rise up, especially on guns that do not have an adjustable rear sight. Recoil will constantly tempt you to let it move up.

You may become frustrated with shooting your revolver if the barrel length is shorter than four inches. Do not give up, but I do recommend acquiring a gun with four to six inch barrel. It will make a huge difference and permit you to focus upon grip and trigger manipulation. The snubby revolver’s short sight radius makes everything worse. Shoot at three and five yards until you get one hole groups. This will be easier wih the 22 but get drastically more difficult with centerfire (it will be like starting over). Do not give up.

Grip is your friend. You can shoot thumbs forward so long as your thumb doesn’t go past the cylinder face. I do this with all my guns. You may not be able to so keep in mind the differences between what you use for revolvers and semiautos.

Learn your reloading. Always load from the loader from belt or pocket using perfect slow motion technique. Speed Beez has good loaders and belt holders for your gun. Do either Ayoob’s method or the hand change method for every load. Do it in slow motion and look for ways to economize your motions. Minimize hand movements and keep them close to the gun. Everything should be performed in your “workspace” (6-9” in front of your chin). It is essential that you practice constantly and think about your movements. You will develop speed over time. 300-500 reps are all that is needed to create the skill, so it essential to do it perfectly. It will take 3,000-5,000 reps to undo any errors (source: John Hearn, Rangemaster Tactical Conference 2016 lecture).

Proper stocks (“grips”) are essential. Go big to start. Get good with them. Then switch to a small boot style grip. Get good with those. Then you will be ready.

I spent about $20,000 in guns, ammo, gear and training to learn this so you don’t have to. You still need to go to class. I recommend Mas Ayoob’s MAG-40. He is a revolver guy and can teach you the old tricks. He is nearing retirement so go soon.

***

The following will drastically help your snubby shooting. Don’t do it at the peril of frustration.


Paul Sharp's "Recoil Mitigation"


http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...0Qn1ZED9qL9Ifj


Training points:

Mitigating muzzle rise from the wrist (Videos 1-4):

1) Lock wrist on each hand that is touching the gun
2) Hard pinky finger pressure
3) Push thumbs forward hard (don’t go past the cylinder!!)
4) Proper grip: High in the tang, high under the trigger guard. Forward thumb on support hand. Check by placing trigger finger and support hand thumb on frame. They should be equal on the frame (point up to check).

Test by attempting to bend the wrist upward. Instructor places finger on wrist tendon to verify (Video 5). The shooter will tighten up and prevent as much movement as possible.

Mitigating side to side muzzle movement (Videos 6-7):

1) Tighten the elbow of each hand on the gun
2) Tighten the shoulder of each hand on the gun

Test by attempting to move the gun in a circle.

Mitigating gun push backwards (Videos 8-13) :

1) Use hard push-pull.
2) Push from the primary hand shoulder.
3) If support hand is on the gun, pull back into the primary hand.
4) Nose over toes. Stance is aggressive and nose should be over or slightly past the forward toe. There are no stances in a fight, but this is the optimal case.

Instructor tests by pressing with continuous pressure against the shooter's hand. Their head should not move very much. The instructor should watch for head movement by comparing to a static item in the background. Properly done, the shooter's head will barely move during recoil. Watch the shooter's toes. They should not rise.

Video 14 is a summary of training points.

Last edited by tomrkba; 01-11-2018 at 5:55 AM..
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2018, 8:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Friesland View Post
How would you start a student off with practice and drills and a 22lr 8 shot AirLite revolver?

I do not have a timer and I should be able to do some kind of drill/practice very slowly concentrating on correct revolver handling.
Trigger press is everything

Work on stroking the trigger smoothly straight to the rear without speeding up or slowing down as the sights wobble across the target. Release at the same speed that you press. The trigger never stops moving.

When you feel that you have a pretty good grasp on trigger management, go to the range to verify what you've been practicing.

Shoot at a 1" or smaller dot from 3-5 yards away. The goal isn't to hit the dot, but to make the shots touch each other. Don't look at the holes between each shot...you'll chase your hits.

Once you can get consistently small groups, we can tweak your grip
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Old 01-15-2018, 7:39 PM
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San Leandro only allow one shot per second unless you're LEO
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Old 01-15-2018, 8:11 PM
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What ever you practice becomes permanent. - good and bad.

So I am a fan of formal training and then practice what you learn in classes.


If you want drills, check out these cards-

https://www.tridentconcepts.com/taco...ining-program/


And spend about $125 for a pact club timer too
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Old 01-15-2018, 8:13 PM
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Here is another drill

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi5eZqc9H7I
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Old 01-16-2018, 6:52 AM
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Thumbs up a good place to start

Interesting


Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
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Old 01-16-2018, 11:54 AM
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I really enjoy listening to Haley's analytic process.

The important things to remember when developing your skills is to stay in the process and isolate refinement of skills.

I really liked his explanation of practicing at 3 yards. That's where I always start...because I can't see much from further away
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Old 01-16-2018, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrboma View Post
If I were trying to get proficient with a DA trigger this would be the method.
No need to waste ammo until you can get the front sight to stay still through the entire trigger pull.

Good luck and have fun.
Regards,
Mike
the way to do that is to place a dime or nickle on the front sight and cycle the DA. When you get steady and the coin stays you are ready for step two.

My impression for drills for a stubby is the Jack Ruby method. Just stick in the gut and pull the trigger. The stubby is NOT a distance firearm.
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Old 01-16-2018, 12:39 PM
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"I really liked his explanation of practicing at 3 yards. That's where I always start...because I can't see much from further away"

Having the target very close has finally started to sink-in and shoot small.
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