Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-20-2010, 8:48 AM
barbasol's Avatar
barbasol barbasol is offline
Senior Mumbler
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 952
iTrader: 36 / 100%
Default First AR. Quick question

Hey guys. I am going to be purchasing the Del-Ton kit below

http://www.del-ton.com/Rifle_Kit_p/rkt100.htm

My main concern is if I match this with an OLL and a bullet button will I be Cali legal? Mainly concerned about flash hider, total length and barrel length. I think everything else is good to go. Also, is this what is considered "carbine" length?

I will be upgrading to the Magpul CTR stick and M4 feed ramps.

Anything else you guys recomend for my first entry level project?

Thanks all
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-20-2010, 9:22 AM
tomd1584's Avatar
tomd1584 tomd1584 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SFV
Posts: 5,846
iTrader: 51 / 100%
Default

completely legal, assuming you only use 10 round magazines.

Yes on carbine length. the "M4" is the barrel profile style. "carbine" "midlength" and "rifle" most often refer to gas system lengths. carbine being 7", midlength 9" and rifle 12".

Have fun!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-20-2010, 9:24 AM
Acorn556's Avatar
Acorn556 Acorn556 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Off 280
Posts: 2,109
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

1. check the flow chart

2. why do you need the CTR and M4 feed ramps?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-20-2010, 9:28 AM
tomd1584's Avatar
tomd1584 tomd1584 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SFV
Posts: 5,846
iTrader: 51 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acorn556 View Post
1. check the flow chart

2. why do you need the CTR and M4 feed ramps?
cuz the CTR is the shiz, yo. and it aint an M4 without M4 feedramps!







Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-20-2010, 9:59 AM
barbasol's Avatar
barbasol barbasol is offline
Senior Mumbler
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 952
iTrader: 36 / 100%
Default

Thanks for your help tomd1584, that helps alot

The main reason I want an AR is so I can customize! I love the CTR looks and I want to finish the rifle in FDE. As far as the feed ramps I assumed since its an M4 I should get the M4 feed ramps. Is there any reason not to? I'll be honest in that I have no idea the difference between those and the T-Marks. This is my first project so I am learning one step at a time.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-20-2010, 11:08 AM
RRichie09's Avatar
RRichie09 RRichie09 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Diamond Bar, CA
Posts: 2,600
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbasol View Post
Thanks for your help tomd1584, that helps alot

The main reason I want an AR is so I can customize! I love the CTR looks and I want to finish the rifle in FDE. As far as the feed ramps I assumed since its an M4 I should get the M4 feed ramps. Is there any reason not to? I'll be honest in that I have no idea the difference between those and the T-Marks. This is my first project so I am learning one step at a time.
Difference between M4 feed ramps and T-marks? You need to do some more research before spending any money.

If you wanna learn, don't buy a kit, piece out everything individually and you will learn a lot more about AR's that way.
__________________

-Rich
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-20-2010, 11:39 AM
tomd1584's Avatar
tomd1584 tomd1584 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SFV
Posts: 5,846
iTrader: 51 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbasol View Post
Thanks for your help tomd1584, that helps alot

The main reason I want an AR is so I can customize! I love the CTR looks and I want to finish the rifle in FDE. As far as the feed ramps I assumed since its an M4 I should get the M4 feed ramps. Is there any reason not to? I'll be honest in that I have no idea the difference between those and the T-Marks. This is my first project so I am learning one step at a time.

M4 feedramps and T-marks are two completely different things.

Here is some info on feedramps, courtesty of Randall aka AR15barrels: (randall, if i'm not allowed to copy/paste pictures from your website forgive me and i'll take it down)










T-marks are basically engraved lettering between the picatinny rails on the upper receiver and/or the railed handguard. Here is an example:

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-20-2010, 12:09 PM
barbasol's Avatar
barbasol barbasol is offline
Senior Mumbler
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 952
iTrader: 36 / 100%
Default

Thank you so much again tomd. Its frustrating when people offer advice of "do more research" and make the process of buying a new platform uncomfortable. Doing more research mean coming to calguns an asking questions.

I understand extended feedramps mean a more reliable weapon especially with a Shorter gas system weapon so it sounds like a plus. T marks I think I can live without.

I'm assuming with m4 feed ramps Del Ton will provide a matching barrel extension but I will check with them.

This is why I'm buying a kit that I can put together myself and learn the gun inside and out instead of going to turners and buying something off the shelf
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-20-2010, 2:41 PM
RRichie09's Avatar
RRichie09 RRichie09 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Diamond Bar, CA
Posts: 2,600
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbasol View Post
Thank you so much again tomd. Its frustrating when people offer advice of "do more research" and make the process of buying a new platform uncomfortable. Doing more research mean coming to calguns an asking questions.

I understand extended feedramps mean a more reliable weapon especially with a Shorter gas system weapon so it sounds like a plus. T marks I think I can live without.

I'm assuming with m4 feed ramps Del Ton will provide a matching barrel extension but I will check with them.

This is why I'm buying a kit that I can put together myself and learn the gun inside and out instead of going to turners and buying something off the shelf

The reason why I say do more research is because while I could just write down whatever information you requested you will learn a lot more by doing some searches and reading BECAUSE you will end up reading other threads that aren't relavent to your question and learnign about other things that you did even know were important.

If you don't want to put in the time to learn about it before building it, your best bet is buying a complete rifle instead of starting a project without enough information and possibly ruining the parts or buying parts that do not work together.

read A LOT before buying ANYTHING. asking specific quesitons will get you specific answers, but asking what the difference between T-marks and M4 feed ramps shows that you are not ready to start buying parts. Its like asking whats the difference between alloy wheels and metallic paint.
__________________

-Rich
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-20-2010, 4:40 PM
tomd1584's Avatar
tomd1584 tomd1584 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SFV
Posts: 5,846
iTrader: 51 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRichie09 View Post
The reason why I say do more research is because while I could just write down whatever information you requested you will learn a lot more by doing some searches and reading BECAUSE you will end up reading other threads that aren't relavent to your question and learnign about other things that you did even know were important.

If you don't want to put in the time to learn about it before building it, your best bet is buying a complete rifle instead of starting a project without enough information and possibly ruining the parts or buying parts that do not work together.

read A LOT before buying ANYTHING. asking specific quesitons will get you specific answers, but asking what the difference between T-marks and M4 feed ramps shows that you are not ready to start buying parts. Its like asking whats the difference between alloy wheels and metallic paint.

whoa, slow down cowboy. you might rethink your position, seeing as how everyone can see all your posts and Threads you started.

less than a month ago you were asking some questions that maybe could have been answered by searching a little better.

You started a thread about "what is this box on top of the carbine"

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=321821

also asked about a miniscule blemish, that you can barely tell in the picture provided. You go on to say its your first AR, and you might just be a little anal about it. This was less than a month ago,

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=325709




My point being, we were all newb's at one point. Give the guy a little break.

-Tom
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-20-2010, 4:45 PM
RRichie09's Avatar
RRichie09 RRichie09 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Diamond Bar, CA
Posts: 2,600
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd1584 View Post
whoa, slow down cowboy. you might rethink your position, seeing as how everyone can see all your posts and Threads you started.

less than a month ago you were asking some questions that maybe could have been answered by searching a little better.

You started a thread about "what is this box on top of the carbine"

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=321821

also asked about a miniscule blemish, that you can barely tell in the picture provided. You go on to say its your first AR, and you might just be a little anal about it. This was less than a month ago,

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=325709




My point being, we were all newb's at one point. Give the guy a little break.

-Tom
I've already PM'ed him and talk to him about doing the research. I know we all start as noobs. I'm still a noob, (just stated i'd like an AK that looks like one from WWII ).

The thread about the little "box" was something I searched for and could not find, same with the small blem. Asking about t-marks and m4 feed ramps is something that is easily found, but that is not the point.

The point I was making is that if the OP does search around that he will learn more and even learn about things he didn't know were important, available, possible, etc.

I know my post came off a little asshol-ish and that is why I PM'ed him as soon as I saw that he had taken it the wrong way.
__________________

-Rich
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-20-2010, 6:05 PM
RRichie09's Avatar
RRichie09 RRichie09 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Diamond Bar, CA
Posts: 2,600
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

Back on topic: Get the mil-spec version of the CTR stock. Mil-specs seem to be more popular meaning if you want to change stocks it will be easier to sell and buy another one. Plus you know other mil-spec stocks will fit your buffer tube. I heard commercial buffer tubes are not always the same diameter.
__________________

-Rich
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-20-2010, 9:22 PM
BigDaddyGuns's Avatar
BigDaddyGuns BigDaddyGuns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Santa Clarita, CA - SOCAL
Posts: 466
iTrader: 86 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRichie09 View Post
Back on topic: Get the mil-spec version of the CTR stock. Mil-specs seem to be more popular meaning if you want to change stocks it will be easier to sell and buy another one. Plus you know other mil-spec stocks will fit your buffer tube. I heard commercial buffer tubes are not always the same diameter.
Definitely get the Mil-Spec tube! If you price the buffer tube, the mil-spec is always priced higher than a commercial tube.

Either way, you're definitely going to ENJOY building this rifle! Totally rewarding when you fire the first round!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-20-2010, 9:24 PM
BigDaddyGuns's Avatar
BigDaddyGuns BigDaddyGuns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Santa Clarita, CA - SOCAL
Posts: 466
iTrader: 86 / 100%
Default

OH! BTW, invest in some nice tools. I know you're in LB and I'm in Santa Clarita, but if you need any help or advice when building this, hit me up! I'll be more than happy to get you ADDICTED!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-23-2010, 9:40 PM
barbasol's Avatar
barbasol barbasol is offline
Senior Mumbler
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 952
iTrader: 36 / 100%
Default

Thanks guys! Now we are talking. Can anyone tell me overall length of a typical ar with a 16" barrel and a 20" barrel. With stock extended and compacted would help! I'm thinking of going with a 20" barrel for better accuracy since I would like to hunt with it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-23-2010, 9:51 PM
orangeglo's Avatar
orangeglo orangeglo is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,769
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbasol View Post
Thanks guys! Now we are talking. Can anyone tell me overall length of a typical ar with a 16" barrel and a 20" barrel. With stock extended and compacted would help! I'm thinking of going with a 20" barrel for better accuracy since I would like to hunt with it.
I have a 16" barrel, 1 1/2" flash hider and a Magpul MOE stock and total overall length is 32 1/2" with stock collapsed.

Last edited by orangeglo; 08-23-2010 at 9:53 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-23-2010, 9:56 PM
zoglog's Avatar
zoglog zoglog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Southbay
Posts: 1,010
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

I'm in the process of building as well... my head already hurts from all the options.....
My co-worker linked me to deltron but i'm not sure how good their components are.
I live close to LB so we should discuss
__________________
More guns for followers of the FSM!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-23-2010, 11:33 PM
RRichie09's Avatar
RRichie09 RRichie09 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Diamond Bar, CA
Posts: 2,600
iTrader: 34 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbasol View Post
Thanks guys! Now we are talking. Can anyone tell me overall length of a typical ar with a 16" barrel and a 20" barrel. With stock extended and compacted would help! I'm thinking of going with a 20" barrel for better accuracy since I would like to hunt with it.
There are several posts on here from people a lot more knowledgable than I that say that barrel length does not improve accuracy. It improves the velocity of the bullet as it leaves the barrel, which in turn means less drop over a given distance and more effective range, but not better accuracy.

What kind of game do you plan on hunting?
__________________

-Rich
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-24-2010, 8:56 AM
barbasol's Avatar
barbasol barbasol is offline
Senior Mumbler
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 952
iTrader: 36 / 100%
Default

Coyote, predators, possibly dear. Thinking about it all, I would rather have a hunting/target gun I can use for self defense and not the other way around.

Zoglog, when are you looking to build?

Are spikes tactical uppers about the same quality as del ton? That looks to still be in my price range
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-24-2010, 9:22 AM
tr1t1um tr1t1um is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Jose, CA.
Posts: 201
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

I too am a newbie with AR's , I bought a Del-ton and after I oiled / lubed it properly it fires great no FTE/FTF(failures to feed or eject). I am sure Spike's has some great products.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-24-2010, 12:52 PM
Acorn556's Avatar
Acorn556 Acorn556 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Off 280
Posts: 2,109
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default Do your homework.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbasol View Post
Thank you so much again tomd. Its frustrating when people offer advice of "do more research" and make the process of buying a new platform uncomfortable. Doing more research mean coming to calguns an asking questions.
NO. It means reading. Google "Socratic Method of Teaching."

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbasol View Post
I understand extended feedramps mean a more reliable weapon especially with a Shorter gas system weapon so it sounds like a plus. T marks I think I can live without.

I'm assuming with m4 feed ramps Del Ton will provide a matching barrel extension but I will check with them.

This is why I'm buying a kit that I can put together myself and learn the gun inside and out instead of going to turners and buying something off the shelf
Research the feedramps more. The question of reliability in regards to the feedramps is only an issue with Fully Automatic (i.e. CA A.W.) M16s.

I'm not sure I've seen a flattop w/o T marks. Maybe you should get an A2 upper and have the adjustable rear sight so you don't need to buy more parts like a rear sight or red dot.

The kit will have the upper put together already. You'll assemble the lower yourself which you'll want the tool for.


Sorry you don't like being told to do research and don't just get the answer but like all forums say.....read, read, read, read, ask a question and figure out the answer yourself, read, read, post, read, ask question you have and show you did a little research instead of wanting answers spoon fed to you. THAT'S what we reccomend for your first build...RESEARCH YOUR QUESTIONS! To find out what would be CA legal you could look at the top of the forum and see the infamous AW & OLL Guide. For info on the CTR you could simply type CTR in the Search button....or google. Sorry to come off like a D**K but it's really not that hard to look up a quesetion. I'm pretty sure you could even look up noob/newb/new build/my ar15/ ar15 build and see what other people have done to be CA legal and if they ever used a CTR.


Maybe you want a badger tactical latch too....and a MIAD grip or a BAD lever.

Last edited by Acorn556; 08-24-2010 at 12:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-24-2010, 7:29 PM
U5512 U5512 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orange County
Posts: 502
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRichie09 View Post
There are several posts on here from people a lot more knowledgable than I that say that barrel length does not improve accuracy. It improves the velocity of the bullet as it leaves the barrel, which in turn means less drop over a given distance and more effective range, but not better accuracy.

What kind of game do you plan on hunting?
Doesn't that mean better accuracy?

Longer barrel (20" versus 16") of course (WITH THE RIGHT TYPE OF AMMO) is better in accuracy in longer range shooting (300-1000yds)!!!

Last edited by U5512; 08-24-2010 at 7:36 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-24-2010, 11:39 PM
Acorn556's Avatar
Acorn556 Acorn556 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Off 280
Posts: 2,109
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by U5512 View Post
Doesn't that mean better accuracy?

Longer barrel (20" versus 16") of course (WITH THE RIGHT TYPE OF AMMO) is better in accuracy in longer range shooting (300-1000yds)!!!
Only if you only use Lake City XM 193 brass and break in the barrel properly by cleaning it after every shot for the first 100 rounds run through pmags and never have your rifle near any steel cased ammo. If you do any of that you're totally effed in the a.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-25-2010, 2:03 PM
barbasol's Avatar
barbasol barbasol is offline
Senior Mumbler
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 952
iTrader: 36 / 100%
Default

Thanks acorn for the commentary on how I should do my research. I'll take the liberty of telling you how to offer your advice.

You should post links that say, "have you read this thread yet?". You should say things like "I have the ctr stock and an moe would probably be fine for you needs". You should not assume I don't do any research.

I'm not some punk kid with no common sense. I've been reading here ar15.com, ar15armory and many others, not to mention different manufacturer and resellers sites. This is not my first firearm. I spent a lot of time to make sure my sks was legal and 922r compliant.

At least the other guy took the time to reach out and offer some valuable advice and 99% of the other contiributors offered positive feedback and commentary.

As for tbe m4 feedramps, my understanding is that they are more reliable for a faster rate of fire and not just automatic. Its a free upgrade for an upper I'm looking at and there doesn't appear to be any downside.

If you have any personal experiences on hunting accuracy with a carbine I'd love to hear it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 5:16 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.