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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-08-2019, 11:29 AM
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Default NRA Stance on 2nd Amendment

I can never tell if I'm posting in the correct spot but here it goes,

My question is, why do so many 2A supporters hate on the NRA? I've seen posts from people on other forums and social media sites where people are hating on the NRA for not standing up to things like Trump's bump stock ban. I don't think this is true but I like to get the facts first before I join any bandwagon. My research online tells me that the NRA is actively fighting for 2A rights but to what degree, I don't know.

Is it possible that people hate on the NRA because they don't do enough based on their size and influence?
I also like to give money to organizations/non-profits that I support but I do NOT like giving my money to organizations that, for example, would use 90 cents on the dollar to fund their own "administrative costs."

Is there any legitimacy to this claims?
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:35 AM
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Two types are prominent on here.

The disinfo guys who seek to drive a wedge between gun owners and gun advocacy groups, and the cheapskates who flock to these threads and blest “thats why i will NEVER give to (insert progun group but usually the NRA)” as if they ever considered spending a dime to further their rights.

In before the butt hurt response to the facts.


Heres a tip, if you dont think the above describes you, dont bother posting, insisting it doesnt apply to you. If it doesnt apply to you, its not directed at you. Get over yourself.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:35 AM
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The way I personally look at it, is the NRA has basically "signed off" on most of the major pieces of gun control legislation in US history (GCA68, FOPA85, import bans, bump stock bans). Sure, they may have put up a fight, but what's the point if you just end up signing on to them in the end?
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Tough_Taz View Post
I can never tell if I'm posting in the correct spot but here it goes,

My question is, why do so many 2A supporters hate on the NRA? I've seen posts from people on other forums and social media sites where people are hating on the NRA for not standing up to things like Trump's bump stock ban. I don't think this is true but I like to get the facts first before I join any bandwagon. My research online tells me that the NRA is actively fighting for 2A rights but to what degree, I don't know.

Is it possible that people hate on the NRA because they don't do enough based on their size and influence?
I also like to give money to organizations/non-profits that I support but I do NOT like giving my money to organizations that, for example, would use 90 cents on the dollar to fund their own "administrative costs."

Is there any legitimacy to this claims?
Too many short sighted cheap gun owners who are playing checkers and not chess in both life and the battle for the 2nd Amendment. If the NRa doesnt do there way, then its the highway...not realizing that the NRA has finite financial and political capital to employ in the fight.

Its interesting to note that;

There are 7.4 million gun owners in California and only 600,000 NRA members..8.1% of gun owners!!! What message do you think that sends the gun grabbers in Sacramento and across the country?
There are 90 million gun owners in the country and 6.5 million NRA members nationwide. Again...if you were a liberal democrat wanting to ban firearms, what does that 7.2% of gun owners willing to spend the $35/yr to belong the the NRA say to you and all the other anti gun politicians?
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by robertmneal93 View Post
The way I personally look at it, is the NRA has basically "signed off" on most of the major pieces of gun control legislation in US history (GCA68, FOPA85, import bans, bump stock bans). Sure, they may have put up a fight, but what's the point if you just end up signing on to them in the end?
^^^^ Just like Uncle Josef Stalin... "not one step back comrade".. even if it means total defeat. Clearly no rational and realistic understanding of the situation or of the difference between strategy and tactics WHEN YOU ARE IN THE MINORITY.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Tough_Taz View Post
I can never tell if I'm posting in the correct spot but here it goes,

My question is, why do so many 2A supporters hate on the NRA? I've seen posts from people on other forums and social media sites where people are hating on the NRA for not standing up to things like Trump's bump stock ban. I don't think this is true but I like to get the facts first before I join any bandwagon. My research online tells me that the NRA is actively fighting for 2A rights but to what degree, I don't know.

Is it possible that people hate on the NRA because they don't do enough based on their size and influence?
I also like to give money to organizations/non-profits that I support but I do NOT like giving my money to organizations that, for example, would use 90 cents on the dollar to fund their own "administrative costs."

Is there any legitimacy to this claims?
There is no simple answer to your well founded question.

IMO based on years of observation, the #1 objection to the NRA is from iliterate, tough guys who have next to zero information of how the fight for RKBA is being won by the NRA and its members through smart political strategy's.

Its also likely these are easily led folks who have dreams and or fantasy's about a Molon Labe situation where they make a stand and restore lost rights. Of course the truth is they do nothing except talk and find fault with those who do act.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Tough_Taz View Post
I can never tell if I'm posting in the correct spot but here it goes,

My question is, why do so many 2A supporters hate on the NRA? I've seen posts from people on other forums and social media sites where people are hating on the NRA for not standing up to things like Trump's bump stock ban. I don't think this is true but I like to get the facts first before I join any bandwagon. My research online tells me that the NRA is actively fighting for 2A rights but to what degree, I don't know.

Is it possible that people hate on the NRA because they don't do enough based on their size and influence?
I also like to give money to organizations/non-profits that I support but I do NOT like giving my money to organizations that, for example, would use 90 cents on the dollar to fund their own "administrative costs."

Is there any legitimacy to this claims?

I feel they are just as any other organization that takes money, pay themselves a salary and then do something here and there to please the donors, etc. I for one think they only care about revolvers, bolt and shotguns.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:45 AM
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There is no simple answer to your well founded question.

IMO based on years of observation, the #1 objection to the NRA is from iliterate, un or under educated tough guys who have next to zero information of how the fight for RKBA is being won by the NRA and its members through smart political strategy's.

Its also likely these are easily led folks who have dreams and or fantasy's about a Molon Labe situation where they make a stand and restore lost rights. Of course the truth is they do nothing except talk and find fault with those who do act.
Winner winner chicken dinner! Most all of the complainers are also not members of the NRA or ANY OTHER RTKBA organization; CRPA and @nd Amendment foundation.

They dont understand cause and effect.. we all have to JOIN to give the NRA the power to do what they want.

What they apparently think is you demand the NRA solve the problems and THEN you join
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:45 AM
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^^^^ Just like Uncle Josef Stalin... "not one step back comrade".. even if it means total defeat.
I mean, if it would've passed anyway, why not continue the fight openly and atleast look like you gave it your all? How does it make any sense to negotiate? This isn't the market where we reach a mutual deal; the GCA68 thoroughly and rigorously screwed our choice in the market of firearms.

It's almost like the NRA was pushed to "sign off" on that one because import regs create less competition for domestic producers
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Tough_Taz View Post
My question is, why do so many 2A supporters hate on the NRA?
Because in general people are:

A) Sheep

B) Stupid

Not necessarily in that order...
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:46 AM
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I mean, if it would've passed anyway, why not continue the fight openly and atleast look like you gave it your all? How does it make any sense to negotiate? This isn't the market where we reach a mutual deal; the GCA68 thoroughly and rigorously screwed our choice in the market of firearms.

It's almost like the NRA was pushed to "sign off" on that one because import regs create less competition for domestic producers
You clearly do not understand how politics works and the importance of having "public support" to get things done... regardless of constitutionality. Gun owners ARE A MINORITY... do you all get that? WE ARE THE MINORITY seeking protection from tyranny. Turining public opinion againt the NRA only hurts it ability to succeed on things it can take a stand on.

Do you REALLY THINK that the other 210 million Americans who dont own or understand gun ownership and the RTKBA would not demand even further restrictions after the liberals impaled the NRA ion the NFA workaround bumpstocks?? One more mass shooting by some moron with a still legal bumpstock would serve up a ban on semi auto rifles on a platter for the gun grabbers.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:50 AM
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I mean, if it would've passed anyway, why not continue the fight openly and atleast look like you gave it your all? How does it make any sense to negotiate? This isn't the market where we reach a mutual deal; the GCA68 thoroughly and rigorously screwed our choice in the market of firearms.

It's almost like the NRA was pushed to "sign off" on that one because import regs create less competition for domestic producers
Is it? Couple problems with the leftist slur (not calling you a leftist, just noting the source of that claim) that the NRA is a trade organization beholden to the gun companies.

First and foremost, the nra books are open to see. They get their money, like the overwhelming majority of it, from dues from individual members. They arent owned in any sense of the word by Ruger or anyone.

Second, in 1968, the NRA was a very different animal, less about pushing for gun rights and more about marksmanship and gun safety. I learned to shoot innan NRA youth program in the 1970s, i dont think they had much if anything to do with the preservation of the 2d amendment at that time.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:53 AM
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^^^^ Just like Uncle Josef Stalin... "not one step back comrade".. even if it means total defeat. Clearly no rational and realistic understanding of the situation or of the difference between strategy and tactics WHEN YOU ARE IN THE MINORITY.
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You clearly do not understand how politics works and the importance of having "public support" to get things done... regardless of constitutionality.
Are you alluding to a fact that NRA was acting outside the interest of its non-corporate members in allowing the GCA68 to pass simply because some level of public support for them was being thrown around?

This is the act that actually created the ATF we're talking about here; possibly the second or third biggest threat to the 2a over the "just following orders" state LEO's and garbage politicians.

I will be joining the GOA and contributing to them as soon as I can, because they seem like a fresher and more focused organization


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Second, in 1968, the NRA was a very different animal, less about pushing for gun rights and more about marksmanship and gun safety. I learned to shoot innan NRA youth program in the 1970s, i dont think they had much if anything to do with the preservation of the 2d amendment at that time.

Thanks for this perspective. I wasn't alive at the time to know so I don't completely know the landscape of the NRA back then. Until I started shooting, I thought the NRA was quite literally a national shooting club more than a lobbying association. Your perspective may help shift my views and maybe I'll find a little more solace in what they've done.

How exactly did they get made to be this leviathan and evil organization by the anti-gunners?
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:55 AM
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Is it? Couple problems with the leftist slur (not calling you a leftist, just noting the source of that claim) that the NRA is a trade organization beholden to the gun companies.
That claim is just another bit of leftist propaganda designed to divide and conquer... keep all the "god damned independent" gun owners from siding with an organization owned by big corporations AND keep the general non gun owning public thinking that the NRA doesnt really represent their gun owning family members and neighbors.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:57 AM
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I never joined in the past (although I did contribute) because I'm simply not a joiner. This latest push against the NRA by Hogg & Co is what made me finally join. It's never been about the money, I just don't like 'being a member of' much anything.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:00 PM
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Are you alluding to a fact that NRA was acting outside the interest of its non-corporate members in allowing the GCA68 to pass simply because some level of public support for them was being thrown around?

This is the act that actually created the ATF we're talking about here; possibly the second or third biggest threat to the 2a over the "just following orders" state LEO's and garbage politicians.

I will be joining the GOA and contributing to them as soon as I can, because they seem like a fresher and more focused organization
Attorneys dont ask questions in court they dont already know the answer to and political organizations with limited means have to pick fights they can win politically or philosophically in the national arena...bump stocks offered neither.



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I never joined in the past (although I did contribute) because I'm simply not a joiner. This latest push against the NRA by Hogg & Co is what made me finally join. It's never been about the money, I just don't like 'being a member of' much anything.
That is another problem.. Americas gun owners lean towards independence and dont like joining anything... and it has and will continue to work against them in this fight.

The liberals are joiners to build critical masses of votes and money...and its killing us..
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:06 PM
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I feel they are just as any other organization that takes money, pay themselves a salary and then do something here and there to please the donors, etc. I for one think they only care about revolvers, bolt and shotguns.
Are you an NRA member or member of any other gun rights organization? Do you donate money to the second amendment foundation or any other groups that files lawsuits for your rights?
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:13 PM
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Are you an NRA member or member of any other gun rights organization? Do you donate money to the second amendment foundation or any other groups that files lawsuits for your rights?
I was and my rights were taken still, just at a slower rate, or a bit of a pause!
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Old 01-08-2019, 1:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Tough_Taz View Post
My question is, why do so many 2A supporters hate on the NRA?
There is no, single, all-encompassing answer to your question; though NRA supporters tend to lump them into two or three derogatory categories, which often closes off effective communication.

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Originally Posted by Tough_Taz
Is it possible that people hate on the NRA because they don't do enough based on their size and influence?
That's ONE aspect or, more accurately, some PERCEIVE the NRA as not doing enough or being successful enough based on some issues they are aware of or personally feel worked up about. The problem is that very few are actually aware of what efforts have been exerted by the NRA prior to the success/fail of those efforts. Sadly, you can't win them all, but there are those who feel you should or should, at least, throw everything into doing so.

From the NRA's perspective, time, money, and other resources are limited and the feeling has been that they must commit resources primarily to battles that can be won. Unfortunately, that doesn't come across well to many. It's also why people get frustrated when the NRA (or other organizations) observe that it's not "the right time" in terms of how judges or the Supreme Court or public opinion, etc. are currently aligned. In that sense, the NRA is, occasionally, its own worst enemy; not effectively communicating with the membership the reality of a situation.

As an example, just prior to the first "assault weapons" ban being passed in California, the NRA had committed something like $7 million to fight a ban on "Saturday Night Specials" somewhere back East. When the "assault weapons" ban came up in California, the NRA committed not quite $1 million to fight it. To many in California, that was a betrayal, simply enhancing a perception many have that the NRA is an "East Coast organization."

The reality was that the California ban was a foregone conclusion, where no amount of lobbying or public PR was going to stop it from passing. Thus, the NRA felt their resources were better spent fighting it in court; which, as we've seen, hasn't fared so well given the leanings of the system. This is part of why many hope that Trump is able to appoint at least one more SCOTUS Justice which will sway the Court in our favor.

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Is there any legitimacy to this claims?
The legitimacy of the claims very much depends on the perspective of the individual. As an example, here is a piece by David Kopel regarding the NRA and the Heller case from 2008... The NRA and the Supreme Court. Short version: Some perceived the NRA as fighting against what turned out to be a successful case. The question was what caused the NRA to be dubious about the potential success of the case? Or, as Kopel put it in the last line of the article...

Quote:
You can (and lots of gun activists do) argue about the NRA’s litigation strategy. But the claim that the NRA tried to keep the Second Amendment out of the Supreme Court because the NRA was afraid of winning is not a claim that deserves to be taken seriously.
Yes. Like any other organization, there are internal politics which not only occasionally becomes public, but too often creates divisions in the membership. For those who go back far enough, Neal Knox was a good example. Without making this post even longer, let's just say Knox was largely in the "not one more inch" camp and Wayne LaPierre was among those who "forced" Knox out of the organization. Ironically, in the last couple of years, LaPierre has faced similar criticisms that were levied against Knox.

This is why "legitimacy" is greatly dependent upon individual perspective. There are those who claim, with some 'legitimacy,' that the NRA is intolerant of diversity in the views of the membership. It's something we see in NRA-related threads on this site. Then again, it might be more accurate to say that the NRA discourages public airing of internal divisions; such publicly displayed dissension contributing to a potential perception of 'weakness and disarray,' which negatively impacts their ability to lobby, increase membership, etc.

Frankly, it is the bane of all, similarly oriented organizations; i.e., how do you encourage diversity and discourse, in search of what is in the best interest of the membership, without it turning into a public squabble that creates an image of internal dissension, polemic hegemony, and wasted resources? Where the resentment stems from vis a vis other organizations which tend to compete for membership dollars and donations is the tendency of one organization to be pitted against another. Again, this is something we see on this site regularly.

The reality is that each organization has a niche among gun owners that it appeals to, for whatever reason, and each has an individual region or area of expertise/effectiveness. Belonging to one but not another doesn't, of necessity, make an individual a 'traitor to the cause.' Likewise, it doesn't, by definition, mean wasted resources; such claims being more indicative of the critic's perspective than the actual, resultant outcome. Too often, however, the tension and animus among members of various organizations which are supposedly seeking similar goals is used, even by the members themselves, as a counter productive sledgehammer that ends up interfering in ultimately achieving those goals.

Being an NRA member is not an useful litmus test, despite how it is seemingly championed by some. Simply "being a member" is not always the most useful or effective thing one can do as an individual. Sometimes, doing "all one can do" is inculcating a sense of pride and utility in gun ownership with their children or friends or co-workers. Sometimes, simply throwing a "few paltry dollars" at an organization or specific effort is best left to those who have the means to do so. Sometimes, those who join a regional organization see their dollars being used more effectively or making more of a difference than those same dollars disappearing into a big pot that isn't necessarily as transparent as they'd like in terms of actual use/utility.

In the end, if you want to know the NRA's stance on the Second Amendment, you click Here and read it. If you want to know why there's not universal support for the NRA, you venture into a morass of conflicting views and perceptions.
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Old 01-08-2019, 1:29 PM
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I'll echo what's been said, most people are sheep. They think they are independent thinkers but in reality just follow the herd and graze where other sheep have pooped.

My father-in-law is a lifetime Democrat and was an NRA member and supporter until the NYT and LA Times told him to oppose the NRA.

My wife is a UC indoctrinated libtard, wasn't that way when she started at UCI, but alas...she too loved shooting to blow off stress. Now blindly follows the herd over the cliff.

These are the extremes, imagine the people in the middle. Those that could take it or leave it. All this negative rhetoric swings votes and the direction we gun owners don't want to go.

It's fine to disagree, but in the end, arguing over the NRA is just speeding up the gun grabbers agenda. Maybe they're not the best organization, but we wouldn't have what we have without them...guarentee it!
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Old 01-08-2019, 2:08 PM
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That is another problem.. Americas gun owners lean towards independence and dont like joining anything... and it has and will continue to work against them in this fight.

The liberals are joiners to build critical masses of votes and money...and its killing us..
True. Still not a joiner but maybe if it continues to heat up more people will decide it has to be done. It's similar to the reason the Libertarians have the best philosophical position and still can't be expected to win anything of note politically.
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Old 01-08-2019, 2:53 PM
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Are you alluding to a fact that NRA was acting outside the interest of its non-corporate members in allowing the GCA68 to pass simply because some level of public support for them was being thrown around?

This is the act that actually created the ATF we're talking about here; possibly the second or third biggest threat to the 2a over the "just following orders" state LEO's and garbage politicians.

I will be joining the GOA and contributing to them as soon as I can, because they seem like a fresher and more focused organization.
That's nonsense. What is now the BATFE began life in 1920, enforcing alcohol prohibition laws. When prohibition was repealed they enforced alcohol taxation laws. Over the years, they picked up the job of enforcing tobacco, gun, and explosive laws as they were passed.

It's really funny to hear people in CA ***** and moan about the ATF. If all you had to deal with federal gun laws, you would be throwing the party of your lives.
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Old 01-08-2019, 3:30 PM
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Originally Posted by robertmneal93 View Post
The way I personally look at it, is the NRA has basically "signed off" on most of the major pieces of gun control legislation in US history (GCA68, FOPA85, import bans, bump stock bans). Sure, they may have put up a fight, but what's the point if you just end up signing on to them in the end?
The way I look at it, there are the people that have done their research and those who haven't and complain a lot. Those who have done their research understand that the priorities and purpose of the NRA has evolved over the years and that the NRA of today is not the NRA of the 1960s and 1970s. The NRA is it's voting members, if you don't get involved, you don't have a say in what their priorities are.
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Weiner is in jail for doing much less than Kavanaugh or your Dear Leader Trump have done and they are walking around free.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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Old 01-08-2019, 3:37 PM
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Most folk like to complain but refuse to pay thier dues for what they want.

You want your guns. Support the NRA...
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Old 01-08-2019, 3:46 PM
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I won't answer your loaded and obviously slanted question.

Many if not most patriotic, mature, and American CalGun'ers do support the NRA through a combination of Membership, donations of money, donations of time, and kinship, or some combination of the above. For many, they do the same for a local 2A organization like CRPA too.
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Old 01-08-2019, 3:58 PM
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Here is a Hollywood guy tweeting about the NRA -- I don't know who he is but somebody else might.
https://defconnews.com/2018/11/28/he...about-the-nra/


"Last month Tom Arnold sent out an insane tweet that sure looked like he was threatening to decapitate President Trump. Earlier this week Tommy got a visit from the Secret Service, apparently over the tweet, so he’s done saying insane stuff about Trump. He’s however not done saying insane things in general because he’s still Tom Arnold. His latest bit of crazy garbage is a whopper of a lie about guns, the NRA, Trump, and Obama. The only good news is he managed not to threaten the life of the President of the United States.

Here’s what spewed out of Arnold’s trouble mind yesterday:

Tom Arnold
"NRA made Trump overturn a bill blocking folks with mental issues from getting guns so I can be a drug addict, alcoholic, 7 arrests, mental health issues & walk into gun show & buy AR-15 without background check thanks to you @NRA @realDonaldTrump blocking common sense gun reform"

Everything in that tweet is a lie with maybe the exception that Arnold admits to being a drug-addicted alcoholic with mental health problems. For some reason I have no trouble believing that, but I don’t know if he’s actually been arrested 7 times. Maybe he has, especially if being a talentless loser is a crime.

First up, the “bill” Arnold is talking about was actually an executive order issued by Barack Obama. This unconstitutional order allowed government bureaucrats to declare Social Security recipients mentally unfit without a medical examine or trial and take their guns away from them. This thing was such a hot mess that even the ACLU was opposed to it. In any case, the thing Arnold calls a bill never blocked anyone who is insane from owning guns and by getting rid of it Trump didn’t authorize crazy people to acquire firearms."

regardless its stuff like this goof (Tom Arnold) that should get a fence sitter into the NRA.
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Old 01-08-2019, 4:39 PM
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There is nothing wrong with donating money to multiple A2 organizations...spread the wealth, that's what I do....
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Old 01-08-2019, 4:41 PM
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What about their support on the NFA act of 1934. What was the deal then?
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Old 01-08-2019, 4:56 PM
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You need to understand that the NRA we have today is not the NRA that existed prior to 1977. I have been a member since 1976 and remember reading about the "Revolt in Cincinnati." The NRA had been primarily a group for hunters and competitive target shooters. The "Old Guard" even wanted to move the HQ from DC to Colorado Springs to escape politics and focus more on sport shooting. The Democrat attack on 2A then took the form of attacking "Saturday Night Specials." NRA leadership at the time caved to it and as I recall that was one of the prime motivators of the revolt. Google it of you want to know more. The NRA we have today began at Cincinnati.

And don't count FOPA as a loss. I had a FFL01 in the early 1980's. The ATF was nickel and diming gun stores out of business on whatever little stupid thing they could find. FOPA stopped it cold. The Hughes Amendment that closed the registry was a piece of last minute legislative legerdemain pulled off as I recall by Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) and people voted on it without knowing it. In fact people who have studied that recordings of the Senate say it wasn't even voted on.

And don't even bring up bumpstocks. They are a completely BS issue, tailor made to divide gun owners. They are completely indefensible. They needed to go and the only bad thing is they gave them up without extracting a concession in return. Some johnny come lately 2A wannabees are using them to raise money on but don't be fooled. The coming fight is going to be "normal" semi-automatic rifles. The Dems have to ban them and they know it. I don't trust anyone but NRA, NRA-ILA, SAF and CRPA to put up an effective fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertmneal93 View Post
The way I personally look at it, is the NRA has basically "signed off" on most of the major pieces of gun control legislation in US history (GCA68, FOPA85, import bans, bump stock bans). Sure, they may have put up a fight, but what's the point if you just end up signing on to them in the end?
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Old 01-08-2019, 4:56 PM
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Since I was 12 (1958) I've been an NRA member. Is the NRA flawed. Sure. Is it political. Of course.
Has it strayed from "no surrender". Yep.

Guess what? Its not the NRA that's the problem. Its the millions of firearm's owners and so-called conservative right wing proponents who do nothing but complain and b---- about the NRA. We are at a point where we eat ourselves, pontificate on our media outlets (as I'm doing now), and very little else.
Concord and Lexington mean more than history. They fought the government.
I don't advocate armed resistance - we've seen the results of such actions in the recent past.
I do advocate strong intelligent voices supporting the Constitution. LOUD voices.
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Old 01-08-2019, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post
Too many short sighted cheap gun owners who are playing checkers and not chess in both life and the battle for the 2nd Amendment. If the NRa doesnt do there way, then its the highway...not realizing that the NRA has finite financial and political capital to employ in the fight.

Its interesting to note that;

There are 7.4 million gun owners in California and only 600,000 NRA members..8.1% of gun owners!!! What message do you think that sends the gun grabbers in Sacramento and across the country?
There are 90 million gun owners in the country and 6.5 million NRA members nationwide. Again...if you were a liberal democrat wanting to ban firearms, what does that 7.2% of gun owners willing to spend the $35/yr to belong the the NRA say to you and all the other anti gun politicians?


It’s not that simple. It’s been a long time since I had polysci but it went something like this. Letters had far more impact than a call to a congress...ma...wom...uh...thing. Because if someone took the time to write and mail it meant more. A call is a call.

Consider polling data. They don’t poll millions of people. They take samples. So consider the NRA as a polling sample of gun owners. For everyone who joins, there are many more who equally support and agree with he NRA but who don’t join for any number of reasons. If 6.5 million members of the NRA, then another 8-10 times that in support.

Why else then has gun laws for the most part across the country been more favorable. Yes, kalifornia is an exception. But that were an exception proves the point. Look at the growth of concealed carry licenses the past 25 years. There’s way more support than a handful of nutcases.

Kalifornia is just a different country. It’s not America. So what happens here doesn’t really reflect America.


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Old 01-08-2019, 5:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMCmatt View Post
What about their support on the NFA act of 1934. What was the deal then?
See post #23.
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Originally Posted by carlosdanger aka RozaShanina View Post
Weiner is in jail for doing much less than Kavanaugh or your Dear Leader Trump have done and they are walking around free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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Old 01-08-2019, 5:55 PM
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I’m a member of the NRA and GOA and I’ve donated to Cal FFL, NAGR, et al.

My least favorite organization is the NRA because, simply put, they’re not pro-gun enough. But that doesn’t mean they don’t do any good...on the contrary, they do more good than bad for overall gun rights, even though their political grandstanding is often skewed (their lack of response to Philando Castile was deafening <idgaf that he might have smoked some weed, he was a legal and responsible gun owner with a valid CCW>).

If that ruffles feathers and people call me names or blind or ignorant or anything else, I don’t care. The NRA could learn a thing or two from the GOA.

If that makes people think I’m extreme, good. Everyone should be extreme when it comes to their natural, God given rights, and seek to protect them for everyone.


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Old 01-08-2019, 6:31 PM
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Many see the NRA as being too political beyond 2A. There's many libertarians (and even liberals!) who are pro-2A but who don't like the the fact that the NRA is perceived (rightly or wrongly) as being too allied with the religious/conservative right.

Frankly, it is no different than environmentalists who choose not to join the Sierra Club for their various reasons.

If you're hesitant to join, or would rather have your money go to something more than having 'American Rifleman' in your mailbox every month, you can always donate directly to NRA-ILA.
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Old 01-08-2019, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Here is a Hollywood guy tweeting about the NRA -- I don't know who he is but somebody else might.
https://defconnews.com/2018/11/28/he...about-the-nra/


"Last month Tom Arnold sent out an insane tweet that sure looked like he was threatening to decapitate President Trump. Earlier this week Tommy got a visit from the Secret Service, apparently over the tweet, so he’s done saying insane stuff about Trump. He’s however not done saying insane things in general because he’s still Tom Arnold. His latest bit of crazy garbage is a whopper of a lie about guns, the NRA, Trump, and Obama. The only good news is he managed not to threaten the life of the President of the United States.

Here’s what spewed out of Arnold’s trouble mind yesterday:

Tom Arnold
"NRA made Trump overturn a bill blocking folks with mental issues from getting guns so I can be a drug addict, alcoholic, 7 arrests, mental health issues & walk into gun show & buy AR-15 without background check thanks to you @NRA @realDonaldTrump blocking common sense gun reform"

Everything in that tweet is a lie with maybe the exception that Arnold admits to being a drug-addicted alcoholic with mental health problems. For some reason I have no trouble believing that, but I don’t know if he’s actually been arrested 7 times. Maybe he has, especially if being a talentless loser is a crime.

First up, the “bill” Arnold is talking about was actually an executive order issued by Barack Obama. This unconstitutional order allowed government bureaucrats to declare Social Security recipients mentally unfit without a medical examine or trial and take their guns away from them. This thing was such a hot mess that even the ACLU was opposed to it. In any case, the thing Arnold calls a bill never blocked anyone who is insane from owning guns and by getting rid of it Trump didn’t authorize crazy people to acquire firearms."

regardless its stuff like this goof (Tom Arnold) that should get a fence sitter into the NRA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex_w View Post
Many see the NRA as being too political beyond 2A. There's many libertarians (and even liberals!) who are pro-2A but who don't like the the fact that the NRA is perceived (rightly or wrongly) as being too allied with the religious/conservative right.

Frankly, it is no different than environmentalists who choose not to join the Sierra Club for their various reasons.

If you're hesitant to join, or would rather have your money go to something more than having 'American Rifleman' in your mailbox every month, you can always donate directly to NRA-ILA.
Honestly ,the only way we win is to form coalition's, the religious right votes progun and accounts for 20 % of the electorate. w/o them we don't win.

Libertarians are complete and total screwballs who only get attention when a close race favors a progun republican. Then billionaire dems put up the money to spilt the vote.
In reality there is not one reliable group of voters who favor libertarians.
Lets look at who elects people
#1 The retired and elderly who appreciate SS and their medicare.
#2 Public employee unions
#3 Private employee unions
#4 business owners
#5 Business who contract for govt and ALL their employees
#6 so called minoritys
#7 those who receive any govt subsidies or safety net help
.etec,etc ,etc
If thats not enough consider that libertarians are really easily led sheep who cannot even read about the free state project!

Now there is a libertarian wing of the Republican Party and none of this is directed toward those loyal voting republicans.

There is a reason in 40 years not 1 libertarian has ever reached over 7% in an important election . The 7% elected Terry the Punk McAullif over A+ rated Ken Cucchenelli!
https://www.newsmax.com/Headline/vir.../05/id/534932/
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Old 01-08-2019, 9:08 PM
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It is possible to both be critical of how the NRA does business AND be a member.

I bought a life membership to influence the organization when they call me for more money.

Their position on bump stocks is wrong (as it is on a number of gun laws). Their top heavy, highly paid public faces should be ousted in light of their budgetary problems.
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Old 01-08-2019, 9:33 PM
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I have no problem with what any NRA employee makes. IMO most are worth far more, especially Wayne La Pierre .To smoothly run a 6 million member organization that was 2 mill when I joined takes skill and brains.

Consider a college sports coach at a big school gets 5 million a year! Sheesh even a braindead dribbler like, well fill in blank is making millions a year.

Make no mistake what someone makes is of no consequence to me. In other words I do not think in terms of envy or jealousy.

Join the NRA and if a member please consider upgrading, either now or at the annual convention, which is free to all members !
We are upgrading this year at the Indy event !
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Old 01-08-2019, 9:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertmneal93 View Post
The way I personally look at it, is the NRA has basically "signed off" on most of the major pieces of gun control legislation in US history (GCA68, FOPA85, import bans, bump stock bans).
^^This

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex_w View Post
Many see the NRA as being too political beyond 2A. There's many libertarians (and even liberals!) who are pro-2A but who don't like the the fact that the NRA is perceived (rightly or wrongly) as being too allied with the religious/conservative right.
and this ^^

Despite its weak will, I supported the NRA anyway until the last few years. But it has increasingly turned into an organization that spends far too much time & wastes far too many resources pushing Republican talking points that have nothing to do with guns. I don't have a problem with Republicans, but I don't wish to support the party (I don't wish to support the Democratic party either). The NRA should "stay in its lane" as it tells doctors to do; it should stop its petty partisan attacks and focus on gun rights & gun training. When it does, I'll rejoin.


Quote:
If you're hesitant to join, or would rather have your money go to something more than having 'American Rifleman' in your mailbox every month, you can always donate directly to NRA-ILA.
So if you're pro-life but still a fan of women having access to affordable healthcare, you should support planned parenthood anyway?

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Old 01-08-2019, 10:12 PM
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I'm not that big of a fan as I once was for the NRA. Am I still a member? Yes. I am also a member of GOA (Gun Owners of America), and FPC (Firearms Policy Coalition). I still think we need the NRA. But I give my donations to other organizations that actually fight for our 2A rights with legal action! In MY opinion, I think my money donations are being used more efficiently with different 2A organizations than the NRA. Just my 2 cents...

I do think there are many slackers who don't contribute to the cause and then complain about 2A infringements. We need EVERYONE to join some 2A supporting organization or make donations! Come on guys/gals, pick a group and make a small contribution every now and then! I could be as little as $10 every couple months.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rp55 View Post
You need to understand that the NRA we have today is not the NRA that existed prior to 1977. I have been a member since 1976 and remember reading about the "Revolt in Cincinnati." The NRA had been primarily a group for hunters and competitive target shooters. The "Old Guard" even wanted to move the HQ from DC to Colorado Springs to escape politics and focus more on sport shooting. The Democrat attack on 2A then took the form of attacking "Saturday Night Specials." NRA leadership at the time caved to it and as I recall that was one of the prime motivators of the revolt. Google it of you want to know more. The NRA we have today began at Cincinnati.

And don't count FOPA as a loss. I had a FFL01 in the early 1980's. The ATF was nickel and diming gun stores out of business on whatever little stupid thing they could find. FOPA stopped it cold. The Hughes Amendment that closed the registry was a piece of last minute legislative legerdemain pulled off as I recall by Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) and people voted on it without knowing it. In fact people who have studied that recordings of the Senate say it wasn't even voted on.

And don't even bring up bumpstocks. They are a completely BS issue, tailor made to divide gun owners. They are completely indefensible. They needed to go and the only bad thing is they gave them up without extracting a concession in return. Some johnny come lately 2A wannabees are using them to raise money on but don't be fooled. The coming fight is going to be "normal" semi-automatic rifles. The Dems have to ban them and they know it. I don't trust anyone but NRA, NRA-ILA, SAF and CRPA to put up an effective fight.
God your knowledge of history is so bad and your cucking on bump stocks is why you get what you deserve in California LMAO. You couldn't even articulate the legal definition of a machine gun if I handed you the US Code.

Legendary fudd post.

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