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  #1  
Old 05-16-2018, 11:18 PM
fish590a fish590a is offline
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Default Another residency / off roster pistol question

So i picked up a CZ pistol from small shop today. We were chatting a bit while doing the transaction. I kinda told him about a buddy of mine who owns a property/ vacation home in Arizona, because he owns a property there he was able to acquire an Arizona ID therefore able to purchase fireamrs there though his legal residence is CA.

I asked him if he can get in trouble for what he is doing, he said “ he acquired the gun legally and he does not see anything wrong with it.” He even said if he wants to sell you the fireamr here (CA) he could as long as it is a legal California firearm.” I told him i dont think he can even cross the stateline with that firearm. He said “when he acquired that firearm legally it becomes his legal property and he can do whatever he wants with it. I don’t remeber everything he told me but what i get from it is that my buddy ( CA residence) can purchase firearm legally in AZ and can bring that firearm back to CA and he choose to do so he can sell me that same firearm legally here in CA.

This coming from a store owner/ffl dealer I’m now questioning the very little knowledge i have about CA firearms law. I know he’s wrong but if this what he believes he could get himself in a real big trouble. Thoughts?
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:49 PM
unclerandy unclerandy is offline
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Its my understanding that where ever you file your income taxes establishes your legal residency as it pertains to firearm laws in California. I also believe that when your buddy brings guns into CA that he purchased from AZ that it is a federal offense if he intends to keep them here. I've been trying to get some answers on this myself so I'm interested in some real facts being posted on this.
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  #3  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:20 AM
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RickD427 RickD427 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclerandy View Post
Its my understanding that where ever you file your income taxes establishes your legal residency as it pertains to firearm laws in California. I also believe that when your buddy brings guns into CA that he purchased from AZ that it is a federal offense if he intends to keep them here. I've been trying to get some answers on this myself so I'm interested in some real facts being posted on this.
Sir,

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

Where you file your income taxes does not determine your residency for the purposes of California's firearms statutes. Penal Code section 17000(b)(1) does.

No federal law is violated if the friend brings an Arizona purchased firearm into California.

The friend would be committing a California state felony if they bought in a handgun purchased in another state.
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Old 05-17-2018, 4:51 AM
jeremiah12 jeremiah12 is offline
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When it comes to firearms, one must follow both federal and state laws. First the federal law. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.11

Quote:
State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located, as stated in 18 U.S.C. 921(b). The following are examples that illustrate this definition:
.
.
Example 2.
A maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.
So for the purpose of purchasing firearms, your buddy can buy guns in AZ when he is living in AZ and buy gun in CA when he is living in CA.

As for bringing the guns he bought in AZ into CA will require him to follow CA law. I do not have the time to find the CA law (I am getting ready for work) but a few years ago it was changed to require that in order for a CA to legally import a gun they obtained from outside the state they had to first have it delivered to a CA FFL (they could not just drive it to their local CA FFL, it had to be shipped to a CA FFL) to be DROSed and then go through the 10-day wait. A CA FFL can only transfer handguns that are on the roster using this method so off-roster guns cannot be brought into the state this way.

This means those of us who have property in other states and can get the required ID so we can purchase guns in those states when we are visiting those states have to leave the off-roster guns in those states. They cannot return to CA, even for a short visit. Our CA guns and guns that were purchased out of state and delivered to a CA FFL and DROSed can freely travel into and out of CA with us.

Never get legal advise from a gun store. CA gun laws are so complex you best option is to seek out a gun attorney. The money you spend is the best insurance you will pay to keep you out of the big house.
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Old 05-17-2018, 4:53 AM
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Marauder2003 Marauder2003 is offline
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17000(b)(1) points to the Vehicle Code.

12505.
(a) (1) For purposes of this division only and notwithstanding Section 516, residency shall be determined as a person’s state of domicile. “State of domicile” means the state where a person has his or her true, fixed, and permanent home and principal residence and to which he or she has manifested the intention of returning whenever he or she is absent.
Prima facie evidence of residency for driver’s licensing purposes includes, but is not limited to, the following:
(A) Address where registered to vote.
(B) Payment of resident tuition at a public institution of higher education.
(C) Filing a homeowner’s property tax exemption.
(D) Other acts, occurrences, or events that indicate presence in the state is more than temporary or transient.

Section 516
“Resident” means any person who manifests an intent to live or be located in this state on more than a temporary or transient basis.  Presence in the state for six months or more in any 12-month period gives rise to a rebuttable presumption of residency.

The following are evidence of residency for purposes of vehicle registration:

(a) Address where registered to vote.
(b) Location of employment or place of business.
(c) Payment of resident tuition at a public institution of higher education.
(d) Attendance of dependents at a primary or secondary school.
(e) Filing a homeowner's property tax exemption.
(f) Renting or leasing a home for use as a residence.
(g) Declaration of residency to obtain a license or any other privilege or benefit not ordinarily extended to a nonresident.
(h) Possession of a California driver's license.
(i) Other acts, occurrences, or events that indicate presence in the state is more than temporary or transient.
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Old 05-17-2018, 7:52 AM
P5Ret P5Ret is online now
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Here is the applicable law

27585. (a) Commencing January 1, 2015, a resident of this state shall not import into this state, bring into this state, or transport into this state, any firearm that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained on or after January 1, 2015, from outside of this state unless he or she first has that firearm delivered to a dealer in this state for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

There are some exemptions but they are kind of narrow.
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Old 05-17-2018, 9:11 AM
fish590a fish590a is offline
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What about if someone is moving into CA, where he owns firerms prior to the move. Does he still need to ship his firearms to the dealer? Or can he just take it with him during the move and register after the move?

If he need to ship it to the dealer before moving, can he ship his off roster pistols to the dealer? Or he can only bring on roster pistols to CA?
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Old 05-17-2018, 9:14 AM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
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It is like RickD427 and P5Ret are saying. It breaks out this way. There is nothing illegal about the purchase in AZ. The problem is if the guy imports the gun into CA. If not first imported by delivery to a CA FFL, there is a violation of Penal Code section 27585(a). A violation of 27585 can catch a him a felony. See PC 27590. Should this person comply with 27585(a) and first deliver it to the FFL, there is no violation but the FFL will not deliver the off roster handgun unless for some reason the person or the transaction is roster exempt.

Last edited by Chewy65; 05-17-2018 at 9:22 AM..
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Old 05-17-2018, 9:18 AM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fish590a View Post
What about if someone is moving into CA, where he owns firerms prior to the move. Does he still need to ship his firearms to the dealer? Or can he just take it with him during the move and register after the move?

If he need to ship it to the dealer before moving, can he ship his off roster pistols to the dealer? Or he can only bring on roster pistols to CA?
That is different. As long as the pistol is legal it need not be on the roster, but you are talking about someone moving to CA who had not already established CA residency. The OP is talking about a situation in which a person who is considered to already be a CA resident purchases outside of the state.
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Old 05-17-2018, 9:30 AM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
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OPs buddy felon complete fud from ffl and now buddy is a brig bunny. Lots of posts on this.
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:33 AM
fish590a fish590a is offline
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Thank you for all the members with that shared helpful/ informative infos (and to other that post just to be a d**k ☝��).

I will direct that store owner to this thread so he can read the info himself.
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