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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 06-01-2018, 6:51 PM
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Default Cheap 6.5 CM with hand loads,Very Accurate

A while back I decided that I wanted to play with the 6.5 Creedmoore after reading several articles about how accurate it is.
I didn't have much money to spend since I had just recently bought a new elk gun. I saw an add from Sportsmans Wharehouse for a Howa/Houge 1500 on sale for $329. I cant remember exactly how much I paid, but with my veterans discount I believe it was under $300. At that time it was also my 25th wedding anniversary. So I asked my wife for a set of Redding precision neck bushing dies for a gift.
Since I'm in California I read some articles, and started loading the Barnes 127 gr. LRX and had some pretty good results, but not great. I wanted some target loads that weren't too expensive to shoot and I found some Nosler 140 gr. Custom Competition bullets that were pretty cheap compared to the Barnes. I believe I paid $52 for 250 rounds. loaded them up and they shot OK, but not great.
OK, but not great isn't what I was looking for. I thought about it for a while, an decided since the Houge stock on this thing was really a piece of crap I would try bedding the lug and see if it would make an improvement since a new stock would cost more than the rifle itself. At the same time I had met a guy with a Barrett 6.5 that I was keeping in touch with about reloading for it. He had mentioned to me that he was having great luck loading on the lands. So I said to myself "what the hell I'll try it ".
The combination of bedding and lands brought me to shooting groups under 1/4". I have been playing with this rifle, and I am having really good results shooting out to 850 yards. That's the longest range avalliable in my area. Honestly I would love to shoot this thing out past 1000 yards. I'm not an accomplished shooter but I consider myself good.
So here is what I did as far as the reloading. Just to let you know I loaded this thing on the conservative level. I wasn't looking for a screamer.

127 gr. Barnes LRX
.050" off lands
Fire formed Lapua Brass trimmed to 1.920"
.002" neck tension
38 grains H4350
CCI 400 Primer
Approx. 2338 fps (slow)

140 gr. Nosler custom competition
.002" off lands
Fire Formed Lapua Brass trimmed to spec. (1.920")
.002" neck tension
37 grains H 4350
CCI 400 Primer
2297 fps (really slow)

I know that these speeds are really slow, but I didn't want a barrel burner, and I am happy with the results. If I can shoot out to 850 yards accurately with this creeper. I know i can kill any deer or smaller with it.

Have fun! Get cheap! and have fun!!!!

Just to let you know I have no plans on shooting deer past 200 yards here in California.
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  #2  
Old 06-01-2018, 7:53 PM
JackEllis JackEllis is offline
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If this is a target gun, no problem. If you want to hunt with it in California, you're eventualy going to need lead-free rounds and they need to impact the critter at 2000 FPS or better in order to expand properly.

Either use factory ammo or figure out how to get more speed out of whatever hand loads you want to use.

In any event, for larger calibers lead-free ammunition has an effective range of around 300 yards or (preferably) less.
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  #3  
Old 06-01-2018, 8:15 PM
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MongooseV8 MongooseV8 is offline
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Id load a Barnes TTSX 100 or 120 grain for hunting. You want max speed and at least a 2000 fps impact velocity.

My 7mm Magnum has an effective ramge of 425 yards with lead free bullets.

Last edited by MongooseV8; 06-01-2018 at 8:18 PM..
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  #4  
Old 06-01-2018, 8:46 PM
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upchuck upchuck is offline
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I was just pointing out that you dont have to get really expensive to make a gun shoot.
I mainly want to shoot targets long range with this thing. But also it makes a good california deer gun.
Where I live a 100 to 200 yard shot is considered long range. Big game here would be considered small game in most states.
Yes I could ramp this thing up to compitition standards. But that wasnt what I was looking for. My point was that you can make a cheap gun a shooter with a little effort and not a bunch of money.
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  #5  
Old 06-01-2018, 9:11 PM
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MongooseV8 MongooseV8 is offline
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Well 1/4" groups from a Howa id say youre doing pretty good lol. What scope are you using?
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Old 06-01-2018, 9:23 PM
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vortex diamondback 4-16x42 V-Plex with paralax focus. Bought on sale for $199. Not a great scope, but does the job. What I could afford at the time.
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  #7  
Old 06-02-2018, 3:19 AM
longrange1 longrange1 is offline
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without know details heres your numbers with a 10mph wind...look at your wind at 850yds...or anything past 250yds.

im not knocking anything your doing but your going to have a tough time hitting anything even in a light breeze with those loads and honestly i doubt those slow loads are actually going to significantly add to your barrel life.

speed DOES NOT kill barrels...HEAT kills barrels...you could turn those loads up and still get the barrel life as long as your not shooting long strings of fire and getting the barrel real hot...again im not knocking what your doing.

Trajectory
Input Data
Manufacturer: Barnes Description: Long Range X Boattail
Caliber: 0.264 in Weight: 127.0 gr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.468 G1 (ASM)
Muzzle Velocity: 2338.0 ft/s Distance to Chronograph: 10.0 ft
Sight Height: 1.10 in Sight Offset: 0.00 in
Zero Height: 0.00 in Zero Offset: 0.00 in
Windage: 0.000 MOA Elevation: 0.000 MOA
Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Wind Angle: 90.0 deg
Target Speed: 0.0 mph Target Angle: 90.0 deg
Target Height: 12.0 in
Temperature: 65.0 F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 25 % Altitude: 4500.0 ft
Vital Zone Radius: 5.0 in
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Mark Sound Barrier Crossing: No Include Extra Rows: No
Column 1 Units: 1.00 MOA Column 2 Units: 1.00 in
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 4.211 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.06394 lb/ft Speed of Sound: 1122.9 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 287 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 242 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 131 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 1040.8 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.260 lb/in
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (in) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (MOA) (in)
0 *** -1.1 *** 0.0 2343.2 2.087 1548.0 0.000 *** 0.0
25 -0.8 -0.2 0.2 0.0 2304.6 2.052 1497.4 0.032 0.0 0.0
50 0.6 0.3 0.4 0.2 2266.3 2.018 1448.1 0.065 0.0 0.0
75 0.5 0.4 0.5 0.4 2228.4 1.984 1400.0 0.098 0.0 0.0
100 -0.0 -0.0 0.7 0.8 2190.8 1.951 1353.2 0.132 0.0 0.0
125 -0.6 -0.8 0.9 1.2 2153.6 1.918 1307.6 0.167 0.0 0.0
150 -1.3 -2.1 1.1 1.8 2116.7 1.885 1263.3 0.202 0.0 0.0
175 -2.1 -3.9 1.3 2.4 2080.2 1.853 1220.1 0.238 0.0 0.0
200 -2.9 -6.2 1.5 3.2 2044.1 1.820 1178.1 0.274 0.0 0.0
225 -3.8 -8.9 1.7 4.1 2008.3 1.789 1137.2 0.311 0.0 0.0
250 -4.7 -12.3 1.9 5.1 1973.0 1.757 1097.5 0.349 0.0 0.0
275 -5.6 -16.2 2.1 6.2 1938.0 1.726 1058.9 0.387 0.0 0.0
300 -6.6 -20.6 2.4 7.4 1903.4 1.695 1021.5 0.426 0.0 0.0
325 -7.6 -25.7 2.6 8.8 1869.2 1.665 985.1 0.466 0.0 0.0
350 -8.6 -31.4 2.8 10.3 1835.4 1.635 949.8 0.507 0.0 0.0
375 -9.6 -37.7 3.0 11.9 1802.1 1.605 915.6 0.548 0.0 0.0
400 -10.7 -44.7 3.3 13.7 1769.1 1.576 882.4 0.590 0.0 0.0
425 -11.8 -52.4 3.5 15.6 1736.7 1.547 850.3 0.633 0.0 0.0
450 -12.9 -60.9 3.7 17.6 1704.6 1.518 819.3 0.676 0.0 0.0
475 -14.1 -70.0 4.0 19.8 1673.1 1.490 789.2 0.721 0.0 0.0
500 -15.3 -80.0 4.2 22.1 1642.0 1.462 760.2 0.766 0.0 0.0
525 -16.5 -90.7 4.5 24.6 1611.5 1.435 732.2 0.812 0.0 0.0
550 -17.8 -102.3 4.7 27.2 1581.5 1.408 705.2 0.859 0.0 0.0
575 -19.1 -114.7 5.0 30.0 1552.0 1.382 679.1 0.907 0.0 0.0
600 -20.4 -128.1 5.2 33.0 1523.0 1.356 654.0 0.956 0.0 0.0
625 -21.8 -142.4 5.5 36.1 1494.6 1.331 629.9 1.005 0.0 0.0
650 -23.2 -157.7 5.8 39.4 1466.9 1.306 606.7 1.056 0.0 0.0
675 -24.6 -173.9 6.1 42.8 1439.7 1.282 584.4 1.108 0.0 0.0
700 -26.1 -191.3 6.3 46.5 1413.2 1.258 563.1 1.160 0.0 0.0
725 -27.6 -209.7 6.6 50.3 1387.3 1.235 542.6 1.214 0.0 0.0
750 -29.2 -229.2 6.9 54.2 1362.1 1.213 523.1 1.268 0.0 0.0
775 -30.8 -249.9 7.2 58.4 1337.6 1.191 504.4 1.324 0.0 0.0
800 -32.4 -271.8 7.5 62.7 1313.8 1.170 486.7 1.381 0.0 0.0
825 -34.1 -295.0 7.8 67.2 1290.7 1.149 469.7 1.438 0.0 0.0
850 -35.9 -319.5 8.1 71.9 1268.5 1.130 453.7 1.497 0.0 0.0
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Old 06-02-2018, 6:18 AM
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The reason I started so low on the load was because barnes load tables show that at 36.3 (low end of table for H-4350) the velocity is 2545 fps. I'm only getting 2338 fps at 38 grains. I'm pretty sure that its because I have a 22" barrell, and most likely they used a 26" barrell for testing. It shows the max load at 40.4 gr. @2738 fps. I worked all the way up to 40 grains with no improvement in accuracy. But tht was before I put it on the lands. Now my local range has shut down their 100 yard line because they were having problems with some not so smart people slinging rounds over the berm and hitting the house about 1/4 to 1/2 mile behind the 100 yard line. So I dont have a real place to do load workups. The range I am shooting out to 850 on is a private range and its a little expensive to rent out for load workups. That is if I can get the range time. I agree with you, and your numbers are close to what I am getting.

Once again the whole reason I posted this is to let everyone know that you dont need a $2000 rifle to get a great shooting gun. I would love to put a H.S precision stock and a nightforce scope on this thing. But I cant justify putting a $400 stock and a $1200 scope on a $300 gun when Im getting the results I'm getting as is. I am just amazed that with a simple lug bedding and going to the lands I went from 2" groups to 1/4" groups. And one more thing. This thing has a pretty nice trigger on it also.
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Old 06-02-2018, 6:50 AM
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MongooseV8 MongooseV8 is offline
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Barnes claims they used a 24" Bartlien barrel for their published load data. What are you using to get your velocity?
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Old 06-02-2018, 7:18 AM
longrange1 longrange1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upchuck View Post
The reason I started so low on the load was because barnes load tables show that at 36.3 (low end of table for H-4350) the velocity is 2545 fps. I'm only getting 2338 fps at 38 grains. I'm pretty sure that its because I have a 22" barrell, and most likely they used a 26" barrell for testing. It shows the max load at 40.4 gr. @2738 fps. I worked all the way up to 40 grains with no improvement in accuracy. But tht was before I put it on the lands. Now my local range has shut down their 100 yard line because they were having problems with some not so smart people slinging rounds over the berm and hitting the house about 1/4 to 1/2 mile behind the 100 yard line. So I dont have a real place to do load workups. The range I am shooting out to 850 on is a private range and its a little expensive to rent out for load workups. That is if I can get the range time. I agree with you, and your numbers are close to what I am getting.

Once again the whole reason I posted this is to let everyone know that you dont need a $2000 rifle to get a great shooting gun. I would love to put a H.S precision stock and a nightforce scope on this thing. But I cant justify putting a $400 stock and a $1200 scope on a $300 gun when Im getting the results I'm getting as is. I am just amazed that with a simple lug bedding and going to the lands I went from 2" groups to 1/4" groups. And one more thing. This thing has a pretty nice trigger on it also.
no i get what your doing and saying my point was your not going to gain a lot of barrel life but you are loosing a lot of performance which is fine as long as your happy thats all that matters.

like mongoose said they use a 24" barrel and most do so 2" will not loose 300FPS also keep in mind that your not using the same powder lots or barrel as they used for their testing...books are guides bound by lawyers.

like i say if your happy then thats all that matters in the end but if you want to shoot to 850+ your giving up a lot and not saving much.

also the data i posted is with your load not mine...i shoot 130g berger hybrids in a 6.5x47 at 2935 out of a 24" hawk hill barrel.

Last edited by longrange1; 06-02-2018 at 7:21 AM..
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  #11  
Old 06-02-2018, 7:49 AM
JackEllis JackEllis is offline
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OP, I'm of the same mind you are. There's nothing at all wrong with relatively inexpensive rifles that shoot well out of the box, especially when some of us have other interests that compete with shooting for our available funds.
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:17 AM
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I'm going to take your advice as soon as I get a place to shoot to 100 or greater. At the published max of 40.4 grains I saw no signs of overpressure.
I just didnt want to exceed the max. Thanks.
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Old 06-03-2018, 4:08 PM
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Chuck, what are you using to measure your velocity ??
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