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  #41  
Old 12-02-2017, 3:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurgan View Post
Because Kalifornia is no longer really a part of the United States.
In that case, in the famous words of Samuel Adams, may your chains set lightly upon you.

I continue to be amazed at the number here who are giving the OP a hard time merely for exercising his natural right in conformance with the laws in California.

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  #42  
Old 12-02-2017, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by KahrMan View Post
^What he said. This attempt reflects poorly on the CCW community.
Griping about the Sarge on a public forum isn't going to make for good relations with the CCW Unit. You folks need to realize that whatever you say goes straight to it. I see that the OP cleaned up his comments on the sergeant, but some of you guys need to keep it down.

Last edited by Chewy65; 12-02-2017 at 4:11 PM..
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  #43  
Old 12-02-2017, 4:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Notpc View Post
Well....... You decided to poke the bear so to speak by trying to get an AR pistol on your permit, and the bear damn near ate you and your instructor. With the current atmosphere of the "evil black rifles" in CA, you thought this was a good idea? I will stop here, don't want to hurt anybody's feels.
This.

And if it has a bullet button as its only magazine release, it is already an AW under 2017 law and subject to specific destination and locked storage requirements (you have until July to register, but the delay grants an exemption ONLY for possession of an AW).

If it doesn't have a bullet button and you have to break it open, I'd ask the same as the Sgt. Why on earth would you attempt to add that to your CCW? It is quite possibly one of the worst self-defense weapons available in its CA-neutered form.

But thank you for the example.
Many have asked about adding an AR to their permit over the last year or two... now we know what will happen.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #44  
Old 12-02-2017, 4:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
In that case, in the famous words of Samuel Adams, may your chains set lightly upon you.

I continue to be amazed at the number here who are giving the OP a hard time merely for exercising his natural right in conformance with the laws in California.

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You are only amazed because you clearly have no clue how CCW works in this state. Let us know when you are ready to take up arms to return the state to the union. Otherwise, enjoy where you live and let us muddle through.

A bunch of us know what a battle it was just to get may issue here.
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  #45  
Old 12-02-2017, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurgan View Post
You are only amazed because you clearly have no clue how CCW works in this state. Let us know when you are ready to take up arms to return the state to the union. Otherwise, enjoy where you live and let us muddle through.

A bunch of us know what a battle it was just to get may issue here.
I lived there for 40 years and know very well how the CCW "system" works.

I wish you all the best. Doesn't sound as though you can count on all Calgunnners being allies in that fight.

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  #46  
Old 12-02-2017, 4:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
I lived there for 40 years and know very well how the CCW "system" works.

I wish you all the best. Doesn't sound as though you can count on all Calgunnners being allies in that fight.

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If you know about the system, please enlighten us how someone antagonizing one of the only sheriffs in an urban California county that issues is "being an ally in the fight"?

In this political climate, OP's actions were reckless, and foolish. I don't have to like that fact, but it's important that I understand it.
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  #47  
Old 12-02-2017, 5:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurgan View Post
If you know about the system, please enlighten us how someone antagonizing one of the only sheriffs in an urban California county that issues is "being an ally in the fight"?

In this political climate, OP's actions were reckless, and foolish. I don't have to like that fact, but it's important that I understand it.
You either live with the limits they have imposed, or you push the boundaries. Sorry to say it, but IMO you and others here have decided to live with the limits. That's fine as far as it goes. I understand the potential ramifications of pushing back too hard, and that most will not be willing to suffer a potentially severe impact on their lives

What I don't understand is the criticism of the OP. What he did is fully within the laws as they exist in CA. He went thru the process as proscribed, asked nicely, and based on his description had a civil interaction with OCSD. I don't see any reason to be critical of that.

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  #48  
Old 12-02-2017, 5:37 PM
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Originally Posted by OCGunFan View Post
I spent 3+ days in the LA Riots, my AR Carbine saved my life more times than I care to remember and the superior firepower prevented bad guys from rushing at me to do harm.
How did your AR firepower save you from a rushing crowd of angry rioters?
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  #49  
Old 12-02-2017, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
You either live with the limits they have imposed, or you push the boundaries. Sorry to say it, but IMO you and others here have decided to live with the limits. That's fine as far as it goes. I understand the potential ramifications of pushing back too hard, and that most will not be willing to suffer a potentially severe impact on their lives

What I don't understand is the criticism of the OP. What he did is fully within the laws as they exist in CA. He went thru the process as proscribed, asked nicely, and based on his description had a civil interaction with OCSD. I don't see any reason to be critical of that.

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You cannot possibly be this obtuse. I'm going to assume you are just trying to troll a bit. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should do something.

I'm fine with you (or the OP) cutting off your own nose to spite your face, but when someone suggests it's ok to cuff off my nose as well, they will receive the criticism that they deserve.

Maybe if OC issues a lot of CCW's and nobody acts the fool, it may open up CCW for other parts of the state. Other sheriffs may take note and decide that getting the pro 2A vote could get them elected.

An AR pistol is a range toy at best and not a serious self defense weapon anyway. If you need a rifle caliber, use a rifle. It's what I would do. After all the OP said it was a trunk gun anyway.

Feel free to carry one concealed and go all mall ninja.
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  #50  
Old 12-02-2017, 6:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurgan View Post
Maybe if OC issues a lot of CCW's and nobody acts the fool, it may open up CCW for other parts of the state. Other sheriffs may take note and decide that getting the pro 2A vote could get them elected.
It's not as though that example isn't already available based on the experience in the 25% of states with constitutional carry ...





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  #51  
Old 12-02-2017, 8:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
You either live with the limits they have imposed, or you push the boundaries.
Or, you run away and criticize the folks who are really doing the fighting behind enemy lines.
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  #52  
Old 12-02-2017, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
You either live with the limits they have imposed, or you push the boundaries. Sorry to say it, but IMO you and others here have decided to live with the limits. That's fine as far as it goes. I understand the potential ramifications of pushing back too hard, and that most will not be willing to suffer a potentially severe impact on their lives
Now that's what I like to hear: A REAL MAN!!!

Just let me know when the next LOC "meet-up" will be outside the Capitol in Sacto.: Molon Labe!

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  #53  
Old 12-02-2017, 11:53 PM
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Forget about the what was said in the conversation between the supervisor and the OP. What was astoundingly stupid of the OP was that he posted what was said on this board. On problem with an IA is finding out why it refuses to issue or renew a permit. You betcha the sarge will be reluctant to give an applicant a fair chance to argue his case.
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  #54  
Old 12-03-2017, 12:29 AM
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I wonder if my S&W 500 revolver would be OK.
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  #55  
Old 12-03-2017, 5:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Roering View Post
I wonder if my S&W 500 revolver would be OK.
The stupid is truly strong in this thread. Are you begging the OCSD to find a reason to stop issuing? I am truly astonished at the utter stupidity of some members on CGN. As most of us know (or should know!) you truly can't fix stupid!
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  #56  
Old 12-03-2017, 5:30 AM
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I feel sorry for you guys to have to jump through hoops of bureaucracy.
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  #57  
Old 12-03-2017, 5:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
I lived there for 40 years and know very well how the CCW "system" works.

I wish you all the best. Doesn't sound as though you can count on all Calgunnners being allies in that fight.
All we really know is that we can’t count on you and the others who ran away.
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  #58  
Old 12-03-2017, 7:34 AM
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So it looks like in CA a ccw ar pistol is not allowed ... ok
but were you CHEWED out?
I ask because I keep hearing the sarge ... understood and explained ..... and doesn't sound like a butt chewing to me ..... but I wasn't there.

If the guy was telling you what you could not do by law what you tried ... ok
but if he was hoping up and down and callin your momma names .... well , that's different.
What made this a butt chewing instead of an explanation on what you could/couldn't do?
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  #59  
Old 12-03-2017, 9:26 AM
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Originally Posted by WMG View Post
So it looks like in CA a ccw ar pistol is not allowed ... ok
but were you CHEWED out?
I ask because I keep hearing the sarge ... understood and explained ..... and doesn't sound like a butt chewing to me ..... but I wasn't there.

If the guy was telling you what you could not do by law what you tried ... ok
but if he was hoping up and down and callin your momma names .... well , that's different.
What made this a butt chewing instead of an explanation on what you could/couldn't do?


When I read the story, it was OBVIOUS the Sargeant was pissed about the incident. He threatened to revoke the OP's CCW license and kick the instructor out of the program. I would imagine when he got wind of this he was ready to put his fist through the wall.

I think it was only the Sarge's ability to tone it down and listen to the OP's thoughts and intentions that saved an ugly meeting.

Since the only one there was the OP, if he felt it had the intention of an azz-chewing, then that's how he characterized it. He doesn't have to justify it with your own ideas.
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  #60  
Old 12-03-2017, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Roering View Post
I wonder if my S&W 500 revolver would be OK.
Why would you even consider asking such a question of OCSD?
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  #61  
Old 12-03-2017, 1:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post
When I read the story, it was OBVIOUS the Sargeant was pissed about the incident. He threatened to revoke the OP's CCW license and kick the instructor out of the program. I would imagine when he got wind of this he was ready to put his fist through the wall.

I think it was only the Sarge's ability to tone it down and listen to the OP's thoughts and intentions that saved an ugly meeting.

Since the only one there was the OP, if he felt it had the intention of an azz-chewing, then that's how he characterized it. He doesn't have to justify it with your own ideas.
Well looks like you got something from it I did not ..... and so?
I'm not asking anyone to justify it with my own ideas.
i'm asking what happened that made the OP think it was a but chewing.
I did notice he said he threatened to revoke the OP's CCW license and kick the instructor out of the program and that didn't sound good but then...... I also heard a lot of him as being understanding and explaining ..... so I guess I may be looking for more details .... you may have all you want/need.
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  #62  
Old 12-03-2017, 1:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Roering View Post
I wonder if my S&W 500 revolver would be OK.
Depends on the IA.
San Bernardino permits any caliber from .25 to .45, which includes the .454, but not the .500, and they specifically exclude the FN-5.7 and Derringer (must be capable of 5 shots)

My instructor said that he has only seen a couple of guys successfully qualify with the big magnums.


But unlike the AR pistol, if your IA allows it, I see no reason why a 4" barrel .500 would be a problem. It's not a good urban personal defense weapon, but it DOES have its uses.
While you are generally legal when hunting or fishing in carrying without a permit, that does not apply to hiking and other outdoor recreation.
If I were hiking in "bear country" I would feel much better having a .500 at my side than my 9mm Shield.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 12-03-2017, 1:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
they specifically exclude the FN-5.7 and Derringer (must be capable of 5 shots)
So let me understand this ..... on one hand they limit the number of shots you can have with 10rd mags .......... and then they go and make you have at least a minimum number of rounds.
the irony would be funny if it weren't so sad.
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Old 12-03-2017, 2:20 PM
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So let me understand this ..... on one hand they limit the number of shots you can have with 10rd mags .......... and then they go and make you have at least a minimum number of rounds.
the irony would be funny if it weren't so sad.
The IA is not in agreement with the State of California on MANY issues.
For one thing, my instructor also stated "If you legally possess large capacity magazines, please carry with them"

The other restrictions, such as caliber, minimum rounds, etc, are simply common sense. They WILL make individual exceptions due to disability or other issues on a case by case basis, but in general, anything outside of the .25-.45 range is either going to be a "macho toy" or ineffective (they used to frown on anything under .38, and even now in class they state that they feel that .380 is the absolute minimum effective caliber)
Minimum 5 rounds is not in the written policy, but qualification consists of 5 shots followed by a reload and 5 more.

CCW is serious business. We are telling the IA that we feel that we have a need to carry concealed... it is hypocritical to then ask to have a gun added to one of the precious-three positions that does not reflect the seriousness of the request.
It is the same as when my buddy asked if I would be able to shoot someone if I were attacked at a Trump rally, and my response was "I would not be at a Trump rally."

Same as going into a bar. A bar is a place where I can't carry (in California) even if I am not drinking. A bar is a place frequently occupied by stupid people. My choice is to disarm and go into the bar with a friend, or to suggest that we go somewhere else.
Disarming is telling my IA that I really wasn't serious when I said that I need to carry a gun for self defense.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #65  
Old 12-03-2017, 2:25 PM
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So let me understand this ..... on one hand they limit the number of shots you can have with 10rd mags .......... and then they go and make you have at least a minimum number of rounds.
the irony would be funny if it weren't so sad.
It does sound strange I agree. I had the same instructor as Rich (Cokebottle) and he said the same thing about not many people successfully qualifying with the big magnums, but I'm not sure that might be because not many try I don't know. Right after he told us that about a 65 year old guy went out and qualified with a 6" 629. I was talking with him about it a bit and his purpose was strictly for a concealed truck gun out on the road. He had a door holster he had made for his old Chevy that was pretty cool. He lived way out halfway to Needles or something.
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Old 12-03-2017, 2:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
The IA is not in agreement with the State of California on MANY issues.
For one thing, my instructor also stated "If you legally possess large capacity magazines, please carry with them"

The other restrictions, such as caliber, minimum rounds, etc, are simply common sense. They WILL make individual exceptions due to disability or other issues on a case by case basis, but in general, anything outside of the .25-.45 range is either going to be a "macho toy" or ineffective (they used to frown on anything under .38, and even now in class they state that they feel that .380 is the absolute minimum effective caliber)
Minimum 5 rounds is not in the written policy, but qualification consists of 5 shots followed by a reload and 5 more.

CCW is serious business. We are telling the IA that we feel that we have a need to carry concealed... it is hypocritical to then ask to have a gun added to one of the precious-three positions that does not reflect the seriousness of the request.
It is the same as when my buddy asked if I would be able to shoot someone if I were attacked at a Trump rally, and my response was "I would not be at a Trump rally."

Same as going into a bar. A bar is a place where I can't carry (in California) even if I am not drinking. A bar is a place frequently occupied by stupid people. My choice is to disarm and go into the bar with a friend, or to suggest that we go somewhere else.
Disarming is telling my IA that I really wasn't serious when I said that I need to carry a gun for self defense.
Mr Cokebottle , I do thank you for explaining the things you did in the 1st half or your post.
That did shed some light on things ...that were not clear to me based on what was posted so far.
However I disagree with some of your view points on other matters .....but it is what it is.
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Old 12-03-2017, 2:41 PM
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It does sound strange I agree. I had the same instructor as Rick (Cokebottle) and he said the same thing about not many people successfully qualifying with the big magnums, but I'm not sure that might be because not many try I don't know. Right after he told us that about a 65 year old guy went out and qualified with a 6" 629. I was talking with him about it a bit and his purpose was strictly for a concealed truck gun out on the road. He had a door holster he had made for his old Chevy that was pretty cool. He lived way out halfway to Needles or something.
cokebottle explained the need for 5rds .and some about the quals
The way it was wrote when I read it ....just struck me odd
I don't even see the need of some of the things mentioned here ... but it certainly cleared up some stuff,
As to the 65yr old with the 44mag ........... I used to have a fixed 5 inch barrel danny wesson that was so sweet .... double action double taps were very real.
none of my other 44's had that ability with me anyhow ....
sold it to a fella from texas who wanted to keep it under his seat
I had thought texas was full of 44's ... who knows

but to me .. if a fella wanted to stick a 22mag deringer in his pocket for protection ... that's his business , not mine nor the states ...... but I understand we have some differences. I DO wish to thank those who take the time to explain such things to me though
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Old 12-03-2017, 2:42 PM
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Originally Posted by WMG View Post
Mr Cokebottle , I do thank you for explaining the things you did in the 1st half or your post.
That did shed some light on things ...that were not clear to me based on what was posted so far.
However I disagree with some of your view points on other matters .....but it is what it is.
The 2nd part is simply life in a may-issue state.

The ironic thing is, in a shall-issue state, there is less concern about disarming for some locations/activities because of the higher probability of another "good guy with a gun" being in the area.

Imagine being involved in an incident and having to explain to your IA why you were not carrying due to an elective reason.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 12-03-2017, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
The 2nd part is simply life in a may-issue state.

The ironic thing is, in a shall-issue state, there is less concern about disarming for some locations/activities because of the higher probability of another "good guy with a gun" being in the area.

Imagine being involved in an incident and having to explain to your IA why you were not carrying due to an elective reason.
I am in PA which is shall issue ..... however there has been some variations of that and it's not always what it may seem.
We work on that here .......never ending battles to say the least
The idea of not needing a gun because another good guy may have one ....... is something in a shall issue state .... I have never heard.
That sounds like smoke being blown by someone ..... I am NOT referencing you in this instance.
And frankly .. I can't imagine having to explain to anyone ... why I WAS NOT carrying.
That is so foreign to me ..... I can't even grasp it.
If I did not know better ... I'd think you were pulling my leg on that.
Just so you know ... I'm simply having a conversation ...... I hope this isn't coming off as an attack or being rude ....as it is not meant to be ....
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Old 12-03-2017, 3:06 PM
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Just so you know ... I'm simply having a conversation ...... I hope this isn't coming off as an attack or being rude ....as it is not meant to be ....
No offense taken.

It is just a situation where you practically (if not literally in some counties) have to beg and plead to exercise your right to carry. It smacks of not taking it seriously to then not carry by choice.

Going into the post office, federal building, school, or other prohibited locations when you have no choice? Absolutely understood.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 12-03-2017, 3:06 PM
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but to me .. if a fella wanted to stick a 22mag deringer in his pocket for protection ... that's his business , not mine nor the states ......
No argument here, and in the spirit of the OP I think we should be able to carry that AR pistol in our pant leg or under the seat. I don't really have an opinion on trying to qualify with what the state considers to be an assault weapon except that I wouldn't test the waters and his experience spells out why in pretty good detail.
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Old 12-03-2017, 3:12 PM
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I feel sorry for you guys to have to jump through hoops of bureaucracy.
Don't feel sorry for us, we can still carry. Feel sorry for those in SD, LA and the Bay Area.
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Old 12-03-2017, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
No offense taken.

It is just a situation where you practically (if not literally in some counties) have to beg and plead to exercise your right to carry. It smacks of not taking it seriously to then not carry by choice.

Going into the post office, federal building, school, or other prohibited locations when you have no choice? Absolutely understood.
we also do have counties that differ from others ....problem child counties for the lack of a better word ..... and then we have Philadelphia ...... which has without a doubt a different set of rules and views
we also in PA do not have a CCW ....at the risk of being a grammer nazi ... we have a license to carry firearms which then allows you to conceal and have loaded in a vehicle among other stuff .
And some think because you have that license .. you MUST conceal but that is totally false but I won't bother you with that.
My learning curve here has been slow at best .....but then I see many residents of CA trying to grasp things ... and then I don't feel so bad
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Old 12-03-2017, 3:19 PM
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No argument here, and in the spirit of the OP I think we should be able to carry that AR pistol in our pant leg or under the seat. I don't really have an opinion on trying to qualify with what the state considers to be an assault weapon except that I wouldn't test the waters and his experience spells out why in pretty good detail.
I know of some in PA that at times carry the AR pistol ... not for me but I'm sure I do things they don't agree with.
And in PA we don't have any qualifying to do or classes that are required .....
I have seen many folks who wanted to carry and started to carry ... only to stop once it lost it's attraction and became a pain to them.
They'd cry if they were made to keep carrying
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Old 12-03-2017, 3:21 PM
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Nice try bro..

Thanks for sharing.
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Old 12-03-2017, 3:42 PM
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Now that I threw this all off topic a bit ..... my advise to the OP would be .... if the sarge isn't capable of rationally doing his job ....as an adult ..... to another ............ there would never be another one on one private behind closed doors conversation.
it would happen where citizens and his peers would be of witness
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:16 PM
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It just dawned on me why an IA would frown on allowing a permittee to carry a .500 or an AR pistol. Law Enforcement would be outgunned liker back in the Los Angeles bank robbery. They might also worry about whether or not the permittee would be able to control such a beast.
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Old 12-04-2017, 1:03 AM
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He sounds like the type of officer that would be present behind one of Senator Kevin De Leon speeches and nod and agree while the good ole Senator educates us on his expert gun knowledge.
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Old 12-04-2017, 5:15 AM
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He sounds like the type of officer that would be present behind one of Senator Kevin De Leon speeches and nod and agree while the good ole Senator educates us on his expert gun knowledge.
Maybe so, but look at it from the other angle... Let's say there was an incident where the OP actually used the AR pistol and it was determined to be a "bad shoot." That's going to be a media wet dream and an awful black eye on the CCW system in that sheriff's county.

Remember California has determined that gun to be an "assault weapon" and there are some pretty restrictive laws concerning transport and use once registered. As far as I know there's no way to make your AR pistol featureless so I'm thinking the guy doesn't want an assault weapon (their terminology, not mine) going through the process. We're talking Orange County here so it's probably more likely the guy is a 2A supporter than a DeLeon supporter.
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Old 12-04-2017, 6:31 AM
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Or, you run away and criticize the folks who are really doing the fighting behind enemy lines.
Yep, just like "The Charge of the Light Brigade" at Balaclava with similar results.
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