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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 06-16-2018, 7:12 AM
brucejacquez brucejacquez is offline
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Default Rebarreling a Bolt Rifle for 6.5 CR

Request for your Opinion(s):

I have two bolt action rifles that I am considering rebarreling for Precision Shooting in 6.5 CR. What would you do?

Rifle #1: Remington 700, SPS, in 308 Cal.

Rifle #2: Tikka M595, in .243 Cal.

Would you rebarrel either of these, what Barrel manufacturer would you suggest?

Or would you keep either or both of these rifles and shoot the best I can achieve?

Or lastly, sell them and buy a new Rifle in the Precision category?

Thank you for your assistance.
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  #2  
Old 06-16-2018, 10:38 AM
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Id sell them both and buy a custom 700 action and pay a smith to spin a barrel on it.
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Old 06-16-2018, 10:54 AM
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Default Rebarreling a Bolt Rifle for 6.5 CR

Iíd just rebarrel the 700 and play with it while I decided
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Old 06-16-2018, 12:14 PM
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I'm in the process of repurposing a old m70 using a Krieger 1/8 barrel with the intention of 6.5Creedmoor being the caliber of choice.
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Old 06-16-2018, 1:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucejacquez View Post
I have two bolt action rifles that I am considering rebarreling for Precision Shooting in 6.5 CR. What would you do?
Rifle #1: Remington 700, SPS, in 308 Cal.
Rifle #2: Tikka M595, in .243 Cal.

Would you rebarrel either of these, what Barrel manufacturer would you suggest?
Or would you keep either or both of these rifles and shoot the best I can achieve?
Or lastly, sell them and buy a new Rifle in the Precision category?
If you want to be able to customize it with a different stock or trigger, the 700 has FAR more aftermarket parts available.
The Tikka 595 is a nice action, but has almost no aftermarket support.
Even factory parts are nearly impossible to obtain for them these days as they have been replaced by the Tikka T3's.

I can rebarrel either one for you but would recommend the 700 for it's aftermarket support.
The Tikka will require a smaller-than-normal barrel.
The 700 uses normal 1.250" diameter barrel blanks.
I recommend a Bartlein blank if you are looking to do a top quality target rifle build.
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Old 06-16-2018, 1:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucejacquez View Post
Request for your Opinion(s):



I have two bolt action rifles that I am considering rebarreling for Precision Shooting in 6.5 CR. What would you do?



Rifle #1: Remington 700, SPS, in 308 Cal.



Rifle #2: Tikka M595, in .243 Cal.



Would you rebarrel either of these, what Barrel manufacturer would you suggest?



Or would you keep either or both of these rifles and shoot the best I can achieve?



Or lastly, sell them and buy a new Rifle in the Precision category?



Thank you for your assistance.


I’m only assuming since you’re saying 6.5 you’re talking about field type shooting.

With Tikka T3x only being $1800 and the RPRs under $1200 it is a good time for us.

I have a safe full of customs. Now if you are after something specific, then by all means go full custom.

But just be aware, to get yours with the features of the Tikka or RPR, your going to spend a bunch more $$ even rebarreling. Remember, you still have that SPS stock and trigger that you may want to deal with.

This list I put together is not perfect, but certainly should give any idea what to expect to get the same features as you might have in the first two guns, but with a little of your own flair. The barrels do tend make them shoot slightly better and clean easier. But I am not sure you'll hit more with a custom.

I’m sure you can mix and match and find cheaper things, again this is just an example. OH BTW, I forgot a top end trigger add up to $300- so you can get a SA custom over 5K relatively fast.




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Old 06-16-2018, 1:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diver160651 View Post
I really need to raise my prices if those are common gunsmithing labor rates.
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Old 06-16-2018, 2:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I really need to raise my prices if those are common gunsmithing labor rates.
ya, somethings I'll find a tiny bit lower.. some a tiny bit higher..

Chambering is now hovering around 350.. Bedding is all over the place.. but so are some of the jobs I have seen.

Shipping is a killer too, as is coating..

But the point was to show the true value in some of these ready to go offerings..

I hope nobody takes my post for more than just a 30,000' view of cost of a complete custom when we've need guys like you to do ALL the work.
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Old 06-16-2018, 2:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I really need to raise my prices if those are common gunsmithing labor rates.
No no. That guy is way too high.
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  #10  
Old 06-16-2018, 3:18 PM
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Yeah wait til I finally bring you a few actions before raising your prices.
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Old 06-16-2018, 3:55 PM
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You can send it to Masterpiece Arms and they will rebarrel, throw it in a competition chassis, etc for $1820. The MPA chassis has been very popular in PRS.

https://masterpiecearms.com/mpa-ba-evolution/
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  #12  
Old 06-16-2018, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
You can send it to Masterpiece Arms and they will rebarrel, throw it in a competition chassis, etc for $1820. The MPA chassis has been very popular in PRS.

https://masterpiecearms.com/mpa-ba-evolution/

Good option

Ya, the chassis is. Most guys I’ve shot with using them are using Bartlein or Krieger’s in custom actions.

So:
<1200 RPR
<1800 Tikka T3x
$2,500+ for a MPA w/action touch up and button cut barrel (that factors paint, brake, shipping, FFL transfer and donor cost or resale loss. FFL Because you can not get them from your shop .)
$$ full custom.

At some point, we just are better shooting out our SPS

Don’t get me wrong, I like the MPA chassis I have one too.


But it really is hard to beat just getting one of the stock offerings in 6.5 —- Or taking the full custom plunge- the middle just feels weird lol


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  #13  
Old 06-16-2018, 6:30 PM
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Alternatively:

Defiance Tenacity (comes with lug and scope rail) 885

FFL (dealing with you, dros, tax at 7.5%) 125

Bartlein 345

Chambering (from Randalls website) 250 + 80 for barrel threading

trigger (jewell for worst case scenario) 250

Krg bravo 349

Fixed MPA Lite 629 +~150 for the Hybrid

2204 KRG no brake
2409 KRG APA brake (priced in earlier post

2484 MPA Lite no brake
2689 MPA Lite APA brake

Throw in 100 bucks as a comfortable buffer to ship everything
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Old 06-16-2018, 6:51 PM
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It's only $1820 for their standard package, which comes with a Spencer barrel. They don't seem so bad as to just discard it, and the Evolution package comes with a 1/2 moa guarantee. This package on OP's action is only a hundred bucks or so more than the Tikka, and I think you'll agree that MPA chassis is very well suited for competition.

No FFL needed because OP can just ship his Remington to MPA.
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  #15  
Old 06-16-2018, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I really need to raise my prices if those are common gunsmithing labor rates.

Yes. You do. Why continue to subsidize??
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Old 06-16-2018, 7:28 PM
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I plan on doing the evolution build in my 700 when the barrel wears out.
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Old 06-16-2018, 7:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucejacquez View Post
Request for your Opinion(s):

I have two bolt action rifles that I am considering rebarreling for Precision Shooting in 6.5 CR. What would you do?

Rifle #1: Remington 700, SPS, in 308 Cal.

Rifle #2: Tikka M595, in .243 Cal.

Would you rebarrel either of these, what Barrel manufacturer would you suggest?

Or would you keep either or both of these rifles and shoot the best I can achieve?

Or lastly, sell them and buy a new Rifle in the Precision category?

Thank you for your assistance.

Take the 700 to Randall and have him put a Bartlein barrel on it and shoot it that way. The next change for me would be the trigger.
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Old 06-17-2018, 4:13 AM
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Originally Posted by kendog4570 View Post
Yes. You do. Why continue to subsidize??
because he makes up the small loss of greed with the volume of lower rates...and the biggest reason is because it gives the working man the opportunity to shoot a custom rifle on a budget.
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Old 06-17-2018, 6:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I really need to raise my prices if those are common gunsmithing labor rates.
I can't compete with your pricing as I'm a licensed and insured 07. If I didn't have all the associated fees like you my pricing would be lower. The ITAR is especially infuriating!

Quote:
Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
because he makes up the small loss of greed with the volume of lower rates...and the biggest reason is because it gives the working man the opportunity to shoot a custom rifle on a budget.
It's far from greed. He doesn't have the same overhead costs. Ca taxes and fees are raping small businesses. Trust me, to be licensed and insured here while being the new kid on the block is pretty tough trying to make a living. The only thing I can offer over Randall is people can mail me their stuff and need not be present while the work is being done.
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Old 06-17-2018, 6:46 AM
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OP, take Randall's advice. Start with a new Bartlein barrel on the 700 and upgrade when possible.
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Old 06-17-2018, 7:01 AM
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...The only thing I can offer over Randall is people can mail me their stuff and need not be present while the work is being done.

Also a million plus liability policy if you get yanked into court should anything happen with one of the guns you worked on. There is some coverage for the customers loss in that figure.

Last edited by kendog4570; 06-17-2018 at 7:07 AM..
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Old 06-17-2018, 7:05 AM
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because he makes up the small loss of greed with the volume of lower rates......



Ha ha! That's an old one. Sell everything for cost less 10%, make up the difference on volume!
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Old 06-17-2018, 7:12 AM
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Also a million plus liability policy if you get yanked into court should anything happen with one of the guns you worked on. There is some coverage for the customers loss in that figure.
Very true, an added bonus lol!
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Old 06-17-2018, 7:17 AM
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Originally Posted by BillyGoatMachine View Post
I can't compete with your pricing as I'm a licensed and insured 07. If I didn't have all the associated fees like you my pricing would be lower. The ITAR is especially infuriating!



It's far from greed. He doesn't have the same overhead costs. Ca taxes and fees are raping small businesses. Trust me, to be licensed and insured here while being the new kid on the block is pretty tough trying to make a living. The only thing I can offer over Randall is people can mail me their stuff and need not be present while the work is being done.
maybe not all ppl but there are some...i had a local smith chamber a couple of barrels for me and they shot fantastic and i was vary pleased with his work...that is until the 3rd and 4th barrels(i do 2 at a time) when the price went from $275 to $475...i laughed and walked out without saying a word.

and i get the insurance thing...im not in the ***-raping state you are in but just over the hill in reno...our insurances have gotten way outta hand...im not sure why 2yrs ago when we had the same $1.9 million in materials sitting on a job cost about 1/4 less than we are paying now...the cost of doing business i guess LOL!! and lets not even get started with ALLLL the other insurances!!

Last edited by longrange1; 06-17-2018 at 7:19 AM..
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Old 06-17-2018, 7:22 AM
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Ha ha! That's an old one. Sell everything for cost less 10%, make up the difference on volume!
yes...but then your working 24/7...its a catch 22...work like a slave live like a slave LOL!
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Old 06-17-2018, 7:55 AM
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yes...but then your working 24/7...its a catch 22...work like a slave live like a slave LOL!





Back in my iron working days we used to say "work like a horse, spend like an asz"!
It funny, a Harley guy will think of nothing to spend 2-300 bux on some simple chrome foot pegs cranked out by the ton , made out of A36 hot rolled, but some guys scream like a gut-shot leopard when you want a fair price for all that goes in to a barrel job. Go figure.

I am glad I am not an 07 and have to deal with the ITAR crap.
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Old 06-17-2018, 8:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I really need to raise my prices if those are common gunsmithing labor rates.
Has too much free time
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Old 06-17-2018, 8:37 AM
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Lot's of great information, thanks for sharing.

Riflesmiths, it sounds like a really tough way to make a living. I sure appreciate all your support and learn a lot from your posts

....please don't raise your prices, i've been saving up as best i can. One day i'll get a nice soft shooting custom rifle. On the hunt for a great sale on a receiver, barrel and other parts, hoping items come up that i could afford on Black Friday.
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Old 06-17-2018, 9:43 AM
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How would the larger firining firing pin perform with 6.5 creed? Any issues with pierced primers?

Does Rem use LFP on their 700 creed rifles?
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Old 06-17-2018, 9:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendog4570 View Post
Back in my iron working days we used to say "work like a horse, spend like an asz"!
It funny, a Harley guy will think of nothing to spend 2-300 bux on some simple chrome foot pegs cranked out by the ton , made out of A36 hot rolled, but some guys scream like a gut-shot leopard when you want a fair price for all that goes in to a barrel job. Go figure.

I am glad I am not an 07 and have to deal with the ITAR crap.


32yrs in roofing here and no screaming about the price of smith work but a $200 dollar increase in less than a year plus sent 6 guys in that he chambered barrels for with in that same time...

Oh and I here ya on spending...Iíll buy a $3000 dollar scope and not give it a second thought but piss and mon when I need a new pair of boots!


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Old 06-17-2018, 12:27 PM
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Default Rebarreling a Bolt Rifle for 6.5 CR

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyGoatMachine View Post
OP, take Randall's advice. Start with a new Bartlein barrel on the 700 and upgrade when possible.
FYI -The reason I shared the list is so that the OP can see what the upgrade paths look like. For him to deiced on his own, if it makes sense for him to sell what he has, sense his SPS stock isn't all that ergonomic nor robust; or piecemeal it with the associated downsides. As such, he has a more expensive road than he might otherwise think.

I did not mean to start a pricing spat. Randell has a different model that works well for his clients.. While I might like to use his services, I can't. I am to far away, so I have to go to guys I have gone to for several years like LRI, or ship to you. This is because you guys can work within my needs of having to ship a controlled item. His business model also has down sides. I can not justify taking a day work, that costs something too. So his potential pool of customers is self-limiting, he has to offer something different.

Luckily, there is more than enough room in my opinion, for both types of service.
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  #32  
Old 06-26-2018, 8:16 PM
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From a practical stand point, and if you shoot a lot, that 243 life is a lot less than the 308. So I would do the Tinka. If you do the Rem 308 and it still has a lot of life left in the barrel and then end up burning out the Tinka now youíll have to do 2 barrel? Just some food for thought.
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Old 06-27-2018, 7:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendog4570 View Post
It funny, a Harley guy will think of nothing to spend 2-300 bux on some simple chrome foot pegs cranked out by the ton , made out of A36 hot rolled, but some guys scream like a gut-shot leopard when you want a fair price for all that goes in to a barrel job.
Used to be active on a boating forum, reading about guys who would spend the British equivalent of $100K USD on a boat, then cry about spending $75 USD for lifejackets, or paying a $30/day mooring fee on vacation. Seemed odd to me.
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Old 06-27-2018, 6:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKCastle View Post
How would the larger firining firing pin perform with 6.5 creed? Any issues with pierced primers?

Does Rem use LFP on their 700 creed rifles?
The firing pin diameter doesn't really matter it's the fit in the boltface that matters.
Most go with the 0.062 firing pin and bush the hole so they can load very hot and not worry about the fit.
On a good action with a strong firing pin spring and tight tolerances the big pins still work at 70,000 psi.
Lots of guys running Kelbley's in 6PPC 6BR and 6Dasher with the big pins.
It's mainly on the sloppier action where everyone bushes them and uses the 0.062.
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