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  #41  
Old 09-11-2019, 3:37 PM
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Ahansom Ahansom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBGBA View Post
I think your son needs to go hunting again, so you can post a new picture of him holding birds. I'm pretty sure we've seen that picture before...
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  #42  
Old 09-11-2019, 3:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
You realize that in the same hull when you switch from lead to steel shot your payload weight is often decreased right?

20 Gauge steel #4s (ballistically equivalent to lead #6s) are maxed out at 1oz. 20 Gauge lead #6's (reduced pellet size since lead is ballistically superior to steel) are maxed out at 1-1/4 oz.

Let's see here, let's do the math.

Okay, carry the one...

192 pellets in 1 oz of steel #4 shot.

281 pellets in 1-1/4 oz of lead #6 shot.



192 < 281.

Seems like a reduced pellet count to me.

But, but, but, you said steel #7s!

Okay, steel 7s are ballistically equivalent to basically #9 lead shot. But, but, but steel 7s kill quail just fine?

Do they? Seems like a lot of people reporting more cripples; just like with ducks. Also just like with ducks steel 7s and lead 7s are not the same.

I'm counting pellets per oz in the same size of shot not 2 sizes difference. There are just more pellets of steel than lead per oz. 7's to 7.5's is pretty close for the comparison. To compensate for the additional volume needed to get the additional pellets in the shell, steel wads have a much longer shot cup and shorter compression area.
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  #43  
Old 09-11-2019, 5:19 PM
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NapalmCheese NapalmCheese is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahansom View Post
I'm counting pellets per oz in the same size of shot not 2 sizes difference. There are just more pellets of steel than lead per oz. 7's to 7.5's is pretty close for the comparison. To compensate for the additional volume needed to get the additional pellets in the shell, steel wads have a much longer shot cup and shorter compression area.
Why would you count pellets per ounce when you need a ballistically equivalent load to cleanly kill your quarry? There are fewer pellets in a ballistically equivalent load of steel than in lead. So when you're talking about suddenly shooting steel instead of lead, you have to take that into account.
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  #44  
Old 09-11-2019, 5:49 PM
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FYI:

http://outdoorproductguide.com/steel...t-count-table/

As you can see, in my waterfowl 20 ga load, the 7/8 oz steel #4 has essentially the same pellet count as the 1 1/4 oz lead #4. The steel these days, at 1550 fps, has a muzzle velocity 300 or 400 fps faster than the lead load vs the lead is heavier so retains velocity better. Out to 45 or 50 yards, it seems to me about a push.

As for steel being more of a crippler than lead, I would respectfully suggest that is more of a terminal ballistics issue. I have hunted ducks since the early 1970's. Back in the lead days I would find more pellets in my birds, usually flattened out and pulling along a wad of feathers. Bigger wound channel and the bird stopped the pellet so absorbed all the energy. Not so my steel shot birds. Steel pellets seem to zip right through exiting with energy not imparted to the bird. And they never flatten. Kind of like using a FMJ bullet on a deer.

Just my 2 cents worth.
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  #45  
Old 09-11-2019, 8:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THBailey View Post
FYI:

http://outdoorproductguide.com/steel...t-count-table/

As you can see, in my waterfowl 20 ga load, the 7/8 oz steel #4 has essentially the same pellet count as the 1 1/4 oz lead #4. The steel these days, at 1550 fps, has a muzzle velocity 300 or 400 fps faster than the lead load vs the lead is heavier so retains velocity better. Out to 45 or 50 yards, it seems to me about a push.

As for steel being more of a crippler than lead, I would respectfully suggest that is more of a terminal ballistics issue. I have hunted ducks since the early 1970's. Back in the lead days I would find more pellets in my birds, usually flattened out and pulling along a wad of feathers. Bigger wound channel and the bird stopped the pellet so absorbed all the energy. Not so my steel shot birds. Steel pellets seem to zip right through exiting with energy not imparted to the bird. And they never flatten. Kind of like using a FMJ bullet on a deer.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I'm honestly not arguing here I'm just wondering what 20 gauge loads you are using that are 1550fps? thats 12 gauge speeds and I wasn't even able to find any data for reloading steel 20 gauge loads much faster than 1350fps. the Kents max out at 1400 @ 7/8 oz.
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  #46  
Old 09-11-2019, 8:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 120filmshooter View Post
I'm honestly not arguing here I'm just wondering what 20 gauge loads you are using that are 1550fps? thats 12 gauge speeds and I wasn't even able to find any data for reloading steel 20 gauge loads much faster than 1350fps. the Kents max out at 1400 @ 7/8 oz.

Did my own digging and discovered that waterfowl specific 20 gauge loads are quite fast in 3"... comparable to 12 in speeds but just less shot.
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  #47  
Old 09-13-2019, 6:02 AM
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https://kentcartridge.com/us/shotshe...teel-waterfowl
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Last edited by THBailey; 09-13-2019 at 6:07 AM..
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  #48  
Old 09-13-2019, 8:29 AM
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I've been playing with steel loads for several years now (made an initial post about it here). I hunt birds exclusively with a 20ga.

I've settled on:
2-3/4" Winchester Xpert steel #6 for dove and valley quail
3" Winchester Xpert steel #4 for chukar and mountain quail

I'm getting the same results as #8 lead (dove/valleys) and #6 lead (chukar/mountain).
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  #49  
Old 09-13-2019, 8:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadstorm View Post
I've settled on:
2-3/4" Winchester Xpert steel #6 for dove and valley quail
3" Winchester Xpert steel #4 for chukar and mountain quail

I'm getting the same results as #8 lead (dove/valleys) and #6 lead (chukar/mountain).
Two sizes up in steel shot has been the generally accepted norm for duck hunters since the federal lead ban and your experiences seem to mirror that for upland birds. So that's good to see.
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  #50  
Old 09-13-2019, 9:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 120filmshooter View Post
Did my own digging and discovered that waterfowl specific 20 gauge loads are quite fast in 3"... comparable to 12 in speeds but just less shot.
True, but the 7/8 of steel has the same pellet count as 1 1/4 oz of lead, given they are the same size shot. That 1 1/4 lead load was the standard pre-steel heavy waterfowl 2 3/4 12 ga load since the advent of self contained shot shells. Respectfully, 7/8 of steel out of 20 ga 3 inch has plenty enough for the ducks I shoot.

Again, just my 2 cents.
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  #51  
Old 09-13-2019, 11:31 AM
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I have some Win "Drylok" 20ga, #4 steel. MV is 1425. May try those on chukar, if I even go.
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  #52  
Old 09-13-2019, 11:46 AM
120filmshooter 120filmshooter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadstorm View Post
I've been playing with steel loads for several years now (made an initial post about it here). I hunt birds exclusively with a 20ga.

I've settled on:
2-3/4" Winchester Xpert steel #6 for dove and valley quail
3" Winchester Xpert steel #4 for chukar and mountain quail

I'm getting the same results as #8 lead (dove/valleys) and #6 lead (chukar/mountain).

great info.
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  #53  
Old 09-13-2019, 11:46 AM
120filmshooter 120filmshooter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THBailey View Post
True, but the 7/8 of steel has the same pellet count as 1 1/4 oz of lead, given they are the same size shot. That 1 1/4 lead load was the standard pre-steel heavy waterfowl 2 3/4 12 ga load since the advent of self contained shot shells. Respectfully, 7/8 of steel out of 20 ga 3 inch has plenty enough for the ducks I shoot.

Again, just my 2 cents.
noted. thanks again I appreciate this kind of feedback
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