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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #41  
Old 03-01-2010, 10:37 PM
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Shooting is a system and your accuracy will be determined by the worst piece of that system:
-rifle
-ammo
-optics
-shooter

RDS are not meant for grouping, but someone who can shoot will have no problem meeting the accuracy potential of surplus/plinker ammo (the biggest issue here) out to 150-200yds (about 3-4MOA).

If you want to shoot better than that... magnified optics, match ammo, better rifle.
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  #42  
Old 03-02-2010, 1:00 AM
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can anyone find a picture looking into an aimpoint micro? i want to compare the 4 MOA dot with the 2 MOA
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  #43  
Old 03-02-2010, 1:04 AM
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Aimpoint over EoTech all day everyday. EoTech is clown shoes.
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  #44  
Old 03-02-2010, 1:12 AM
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What are the choices for a non-magnified optic that automatically adjusts the brightness of the reticle to surrounding lighting?

I know the Trijicon RMR (both the battery powered and the light-tube versions) automatically adjust their brightness. But what are some other options? Why don't Aimpoints and EOTechs have this feature? And why don't they charge themselves from solar power too?
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  #45  
Old 03-02-2010, 1:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakobster81 View Post
can anyone find a picture looking into an aimpoint micro? i want to compare the 4 MOA dot with the 2 MOA

The picture would be absolutely meaningless. The blooming would create a dot much larger than in reality.

The Micro is closer to 3MOA (in shrinking from the dimensions of the CompM series, the projection size shrunk by the ratio of the lens diameters, which is about 3MOA).

If you want to see what they are, relatively, draw a circle 1.15mm in size and another 0.85mm. Put them on the floor. That's approximately the dot size.

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Originally Posted by Sarkoon View Post
What are the choices for a non-magnified optic that automatically adjusts the brightness of the reticle to surrounding lighting?

I know the Trijicon RMR (both the battery powered and the light-tube versions) automatically adjust their brightness. But what are some other options? Why don't Aimpoints and EOTechs have this feature? And why don't they charge themselves from solar power too?
It's a much more difficult problem than it seems. What happens when you're standing somewhere dark and your target is bright? Vice-versa? Then you have to add polarizers, etc. etc (most guys cover the coils to bring brightness down, too). It's much easier to just turn a knob.

Aimpoint batteries last as long as the shelf life (5+yrs). I don't see any need for solar power. More electronics means more failure points. Simple and durable is the name of the game with combat optics.
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  #46  
Old 03-02-2010, 1:33 AM
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[/QUOTE]If EOTech made a sight that didn't break I'd consider going back. Too new for the XPS, IMHO. The 5XX series has been all but abandoned, due to battery and electronic issues, by people who run them hard.[/QUOTE]

A firearms shop local to me has an eotech that they shot with a .223 on purpose right through the lenses(f&r). You can turn it on while in shop and you can make the reticle out just fine. They claim it held zero perfectly. I was not there, so I cannot attest to the zero, but I can tell you that eotech still turned on and you could make out the reticle with a bullet hole through both sides of glass. If that does not spell durability I don't know what would. I have never seen an aimpont with a bullet hole through it, so I cannot tell you how that would work out either.

That said I use eotechs on all of my shorty builds. I really like the eotech reticle and the wide field of vision at long range with only one eye open. This is good for killing all of the alien zombie ninja's with aimpoints
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  #47  
Old 03-02-2010, 2:00 AM
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Durability means they hold up, day after day, under use in the field. EOTechs, time and again, have not done this.

I'm really glad you like your EOTechs, and that the one in that shop turns on, but mine wouldn't and I did nothing like shooting it. If you understood how the EOTech worked you'd realize just what a useless test that was of "durability."

I've personally had two EOTech failures. One had switch issues - intermittently and randomly switching into NV mode (the buttons are a pain in the freaking *** to work with anyways) and wouldn't switch out of it. the other would turn off on its own.

There are documented issues and a recall on the original 5XX series due to what they claim are battery compartment issues, but I know several people that have had theirs "repaired" and they still have issues.

I've lost faith - and I was once a big EOTech proponent.

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Originally Posted by xounlistedxox View Post
Quote:
If EOTech made a sight that didn't break I'd consider going back. Too new for the XPS, IMHO. The 5XX series has been all but abandoned, due to battery and electronic issues, by people who run them hard.
A firearms shop local to me has an eotech that they shot with a .223 on purpose right through the lenses(f&r). You can turn it on while in shop and you can make the reticle out just fine. They claim it held zero perfectly. I was not there, so I cannot attest to the zero, but I can tell you that eotech still turned on and you could make out the reticle with a bullet hole through both sides of glass. If that does not spell durability I don't know what would. I have never seen an aimpont with a bullet hole through it, so I cannot tell you how that would work out either.

That said I use eotechs on all of my shorty builds. I really like the eotech reticle and the wide field of vision at long range with only one eye open. This is good for killing all of the alien zombie ninja's with aimpoints
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  #48  
Old 03-02-2010, 10:07 AM
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So far a couple of my friends and myself run EoTechs without any problems at all. I've never owned an aimpoint, so I cannot speak on them other than I have checked them out in the stores. I purchased my first eotech mainly because of the reticle and it's supposed magical powers to get you on target faster and because I saw the one with the bullet hole in it. I'm sure there is good reason why many people choose aimpoints over eotech and vice versa. It's yet another ford vs. chevy, glock vs. 1911, AR vs. AK type debate. I would say get what you prefer as either of them will do what you need. I am somewhat biased because I only own EoTechs. I have been thinking of checking out one of the aimpoint micros on one of my future builds.
One of the reasons I stayed away from aimpoints like the comp series was because most of the mounts I kept seeing looked like if you somehow dropped your weapon and it landed on the optic your mount would break(if it actually would or not I have no idea), but the mounts for the micros look a heck of a lot more solid than any comp mounts I've seen.
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  #49  
Old 03-02-2010, 10:49 AM
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As an FYI- GG&G will be producing an QD accucam/lens covers for the XPS. This is a great mounting system IMO as it doesn't elevate the optic like the LaRue rail.

As far as which one you should go with....try 'em if you can. I have 2 T-1s, 2 XPSs, and 2 Comp ML3s. They are all great and have different strengths, which have been reviewed way too many times in these threads.
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  #50  
Old 03-02-2010, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booshanky View Post
You really need to feel it for yourself. No amount of explanation is going to help you.

EDIT: The basics is that the aimpoints tend to be more of a "tube" that you look down, while the eotech's are more of a "window". For this, you seem to sacrifice a lot of battery time.

I'd prefer to get the better FOV and store a few extra batteries in my gun.
A better FOV? How bad can it be if you have both eyes open? lol Aimpint FTW!!! I've seen vids of an instructor take off his aimpoint and throw it downrange then throw it back and put it back on and before he started the class he asked everyone with eotechs to do the same... needless to say everyone with eotechs took a step back... I'll look for the vid.

Last edited by Juice5610; 03-02-2010 at 12:43 PM..
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  #51  
Old 03-02-2010, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by xounlistedxox View Post
So far a couple of my friends and myself run EoTechs without any problems at all. I've never owned an aimpoint, so I cannot speak on them other than I have checked them out in the stores. I purchased my first eotech mainly because of the reticle and it's supposed magical powers to get you on target faster and because I saw the one with the bullet hole in it. I'm sure there is good reason why many people choose aimpoints over eotech and vice versa. It's yet another ford vs. chevy, glock vs. 1911, AR vs. AK type debate. I would say get what you prefer as either of them will do what you need. I am somewhat biased because I only own EoTechs. I have been thinking of checking out one of the aimpoint micros on one of my future builds.
One of the reasons I stayed away from aimpoints like the comp series was because most of the mounts I kept seeing looked like if you somehow dropped your weapon and it landed on the optic your mount would break(if it actually would or not I have no idea), but the mounts for the micros look a heck of a lot more solid than any comp mounts I've seen.
Larue FTW
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  #52  
Old 03-02-2010, 11:10 AM
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  #53  
Old 03-02-2010, 11:38 AM
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im starting to dig these aimpoint micros
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  #54  
Old 03-02-2010, 12:43 PM
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My Chevy is better than your Ford
my ram is better then your chevy
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  #55  
Old 03-02-2010, 1:31 PM
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my tundra is ....... oh wait. lol (btw I don't own one just sounded fun to say)

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  #56  
Old 03-02-2010, 2:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Juice5610 View Post
A better FOV? How bad can it be if you have both eyes open? lol Aimpint FTW!!! I've seen vids of an instructor take off his aimpoint and throw it downrange then throw it back and put it back on and before he started the class he asked everyone with eotechs to do the same... needless to say everyone with eotechs took a step back... I'll look for the vid.
Well if you buy that kind of machismo, then I think you've made the right choice.

I've had a lot of good experience with my eotech. Ymmv.
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  #57  
Old 03-02-2010, 3:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Booshanky View Post
Well if you buy that kind of machismo, then I think you've made the right choice.

I've had a lot of good experience with my eotech. Ymmv.
everyone swings their dick around on occasion...

BOO - just some suggestions on your technique (and it's relevant), from that picture: square up (make your shoulders and rifle perpendicular). Seat the rifle deeper into your shoulder (both lower and further in). This will allow you to absorb more of the recoil. It will also allow you to square your head (less cockeyed) and have better vision of what's in front of you. Most people shoot with RDS the way they shoot with scopes and irons.

I had lots of good experiences with my EOTechs until the day I didn't. It's the nature of defects. The number of people that have had issues with EOs puts their reliability in serious question.
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  #58  
Old 03-02-2010, 3:28 PM
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For faster target acquisition, I prefer the Eotech with the circle dot.

If you need the most robust, heavy duty design... go for the Aimpoint. They are bomb proof.

I own both. Use both. Love both.
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  #59  
Old 03-02-2010, 4:13 PM
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ive heard the reliabilty issues have been fixed with the newer XPS, the older ones had an issue where after constant jarring the battery connections wouldnt touch properly and would kill the power
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  #60  
Old 03-02-2010, 4:35 PM
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If you absolutely NEED that EoTech reticle, go for it. But the Aimpoint is by far a better investment. IMO, I absolutely would not trust an EoTech on a HD rifle, or any rifle I would depend on for defense. Battery life sucks, and its a fragile piece of equipment compared to an Aimpoint. Also, it is butt *** ugly. I have neither, but have used both extensively. I do have a Trijicon Tripower I got from a Calgunner, and this thing is literally a brick of aluminum that Im sure is indestructible, and does not depend on batteries or electronics. Its amazing.
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  #61  
Old 03-02-2010, 5:26 PM
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The battery life on EOTechs doesn't suck, I wish people would quit saying that. It sucks badly compared to an Aimpoint's, which you can set and forget...but still it isn't bad. I keep a couple extra AA's in the grip of my rifle

To each their own, I like both sighting systems, but prefer EOTech myself.
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  #62  
Old 03-02-2010, 5:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakobster81 View Post
ive heard the reliabilty issues have been fixed with the newer XPS, the older ones had an issue where after constant jarring the battery connections wouldnt touch properly and would kill the power
In theory, but the XPS hasn't been out long enough to say yet.

I prefer the Aimpoint over Eo. I have had to send two separate Eo's back to L3 on 2 separate occasions. I had to pay more than $50 each time.
I have never had to send any of the Aimpoints back, but if I do ever need to, Aimpoint fixes on them.
Battery life is another reason.
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  #63  
Old 03-02-2010, 6:44 PM
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Quick Question
What kind of shooting would you guys do with an Eotech and 5x magnifier? Would you use this setup/expect this set up to work well (1-2 MOA groups) for 100 - 200 yards ?
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Old 03-02-2010, 6:50 PM
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Quick Question
What kind of shooting would you guys do with an Eotech and 5x magnifier? Would you use this setup/expect this set up to work well (1-2 MOA groups) for 100 - 200 yards ?
Great question , because that is what I'd like to get out of my AR M4
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  #65  
Old 03-02-2010, 6:52 PM
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Great question , because that is what I'd like to get out of my AR M4
My buddy's gets between 1-2 moa with a 3x magnifier so yes
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  #66  
Old 03-02-2010, 7:00 PM
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Newbie here ... MOA ?

Thanks
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  #67  
Old 03-02-2010, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by aplinker View Post
everyone swings their dick around on occasion...

BOO - just some suggestions on your technique (and it's relevant), from that picture: square up (make your shoulders and rifle perpendicular). Seat the rifle deeper into your shoulder (both lower and further in). This will allow you to absorb more of the recoil. It will also allow you to square your head (less cockeyed) and have better vision of what's in front of you. Most people shoot with RDS the way they shoot with scopes and irons.

I had lots of good experiences with my EOTechs until the day I didn't. It's the nature of defects. The number of people that have had issues with EOs puts their reliability in serious question.
Are you talking about the picture I have as my avatar? I was just goofing off in my office when I took it, not actually shooting.

That's not to say that I have great form by any means. I think I hunch a bit too much when I shoot, but it's a little different. Check out the photos of me and Radioburning shooting up at angeles and you can see a better example of my shooting style. Or those videos I posted the other day.

-Mark
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  #68  
Old 03-02-2010, 7:05 PM
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Are you talking about the picture I have as my avatar? I was just goofing off in my office when I took it, not actually shooting.

That's not to say that I have great form by any means. I think I hunch a bit too much when I shoot, but it's a little different. Check out the photos of me and Radioburning shooting up at angeles and you can see a better example of my shooting style. Or those videos I posted the other day.

-Mark
ok, good, cause that's some ****ed up form in your pic. I didn't want to be, yano, mean.
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  #69  
Old 03-02-2010, 7:42 PM
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I had an Eotech XPS but I sold it and kept the T1 cuz its "teh leet".

The T1 had a more solid feel to it on the larue mount and it just felt better for me.
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Old 03-02-2010, 8:28 PM
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My buddy's gets between 1-2 moa with a 3x magnifier so yes
At what distances? Over 100yards?
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Old 03-02-2010, 8:34 PM
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At what distances? Over 100yards?
Probably only about to 150 yds so far, but I'm sure 200 is attainable. certainly with a 5x magnifier. We were limited by clear line of sight for anything farther in the location we were at. Going to a different area saturday, hopefully we can test it more, but it will probably be more towards the 2 moa at that point. Non free floated with a lot of crap on it, and the gripod isn't always so stable

Last edited by Noah3683; 03-02-2010 at 9:37 PM..
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Old 03-02-2010, 9:34 PM
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Newbie here ... MOA ?

Thanks
MOA = minute of angle.

It's a complex calculation that reflects the accuracy of a weapon, but generally refers to the number of inches encircling a multi-shot group at a known distance.

So, for example:

1 MOA = 1in group at 100yds, 2in. group at 200yds, 3in group at 300yds, etc.

2 MOA = 2in group at 100yds, 4in group at 200yds, and so on.

As I said, it's a fairly complex calculation that roughly correlates to those measurements.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 03-02-2010, 10:49 PM
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i think i am sold on the micro, darn u plinker!
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  #74  
Old 03-02-2010, 11:09 PM
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My favorite dealer just got shut down by Aimpoint for 90 days because they were selling them for too little.

The best deals are now the Botach (read the thread so you understand what you're getting) or with a bing.com discount on eBay through SmartGunner.
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  #75  
Old 03-03-2010, 7:49 AM
Smokinjoe101 Smokinjoe101 is offline
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I would have to say I have been pleased with my XPS performance so far. I also shoot sporting clays and shoot with both eyes open and do the same with the XPS.

sj
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  #76  
Old 03-03-2010, 8:45 AM
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pacrimguru pacrimguru is offline
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i have an xps2 and t-1. the eotech is the same as other eotechs that i've used, just this one takes up less real estate on your rail. the aimpoint vs. eotech arguement will go on forever but i'll say this. i'm an aimpoint guy and i love the t-1 and h-1 micros the most. but under timed drills, i am a split second faster with the eotech. in the end, i would still choose a t-1 based on battery life, weight, and overall size.
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  #77  
Old 03-03-2010, 9:50 AM
dakobster81 dakobster81 is offline
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ya i wasnt trying to start a whole aimpoint vs eotech debate, I should have just put a dead horse in the OP, I was just looking for more specific feedback on the XPS and if it has fixed it's issues and how it is stacking up with the aimpoints, and more specifically the ML3, I got some good info tho so thanks everyone!
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