Merced

[obeygiant]

**LAWSUIT FILED, UPDATE IN POST #123**

UPDATE 2014 Dec 19: Warnke won the Nov 4th election. Cavallero has decided to retire on Dec. 27th. Warnke has stated that he shall accept mere "self-defense"/"Personal protection" as sufficient Good Cause. Start preparing now to apply after Warnke revises the SO CCW policy in early January. (Use your time to decide what gun/s you want on your permit, try out holsters, practice CCing at home, get in some more shooting practice, etc.).

Merced Co SO's CCW webpage: http://www.co.merced.ca.us/index.aspx?NID=1918

Update 2015 Jan 17: The City of Merced's Police Dept's "CCW_Process.pdf" no longer even mentions Good Cause in its Requirements section. See:
http://www.cityofmerced.org/depts/po...led_weapon.asp
This gives residents of the city of Merced another option besides applying directly with the sheriff. fyi the PD does require a psych eval (costing you time, money, and effort). I do not know if Sheriff Warnke will require that when he publishes his CCW policy.

[CG of MP]

I have several things to cover in this note regarding Sheriff-elect Vern Warnke, his policies, and CCW... I will also answer the question below:

Originally Posted by Paladin

Did anyone ask Warnke if he'll also drop the illegal "prior denial" requirement for residents of incorporated, non-contracting cities that issue CCWs?

ETA: That requirement is the basis of the CGF lawsuit against Merced SO. See post #143 at:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=352767&page=4

I had the opportunity to talk to Vern about CCW today. The man is VERY pro CCW and I am pleased to say that from all that I heard from his mouth we are going to be getting an absolutely outstanding pro 2A head at the S.O.

I specifically asked him about Paladin's question and Warnke said that he will NOT require anybody to apply at their local PD first. He says they are welcome to do so in fact he seemed encouraging of it, but he will NOT require it.

I asked him about the number of weapons that he was going to allow on a CCW. He said he would like to see registered weapons on the CCW and he believes that he will be approving up to FIVE of them. If I understood him correctly he thinks that may be a state limit but I was unclear on this.

Mr. Warnke also talked about the fees to be charged by the SO for CCW apps. He believes that he will keep it where it is now. He made it VERY clear that this was not going to be a cash cow for the county and that he wanted the fees charged to be as close to actual costs as possible. He did note that he expects to be inundated with CCW apps and that if so he will consider bringing on more staff and those costs might make the app cost go up 40 bucks - but he is going to hold off and see.

As to what CALIBER of weapons will be allowed on the Merced County CCW, Warnke said he expected to see only CENTERFIRE handguns used for qualifications. He will NOT approve rimfire.

The usual full background checks will be done.

I asked him SPECIFICALLY if SELF DEFENSE was a sufficient good cause statement that he would approve on. He answered in the affirmative.

I touched base with him on some other things and I really do believe that he is going to make us proud. This guy sure does sound PRO RKBA, PRO CCW, and PRO 2nd. Merced County just elected themselves a gift.


Oh and as for what he is going to do with all of the lawn signs that he used for his election.... he is donating them as target backings to a local shooting group. He said that he was happy to see his election signs "go out in a blaze of glory".



By the way, I am NOT a spokesman for Warnke and any errors above are likely due to a bad cell connection or my own misunderstanding :-) Don't make decisions based on what I've said. Check with the SO and other legal authorities first.

[tamalpias]

wow I am glad for you guys in Merced. I just wished my sheriff was ousted and we had a pro 2A sheriff in.

[Paladin]

4 weeks more until you folks can apply for your Merced CCWs using only "self-defense" as your entire Good Cause statement!

Be sure to carry when you visit the SF Bay Area (or LA/SD).

[Undertaker]

Vern was sworn in 2 days ago on the 16th. cavallero retired earlier than expected.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

Vern was sworn in 2 days ago on the 16th. cavallero retired earlier than expected.

Cool! Even though Warnke was sworn in, it says he won't assume office until Dec 27th. I've updated this thread's title & OP.

https://www.facebook.com/vernwarnkeforsheriff
http://www.mercedsunstar.com/news/lo...le4538077.html

When do you think his new policy & procedures will be in place? IOW, when should CGNers in Merced drop by the SO to drop off their CCW apps w/only SD as their GC statement?

I look forward to seeing updated CCW info on their website:
http://www.co.merced.ca.us/index.aspx?nid=87

http://www.co.merced.ca.us/index.aspx?NID=1918

[jgraham7897]

I am going to go out on a limb and say people can start applying now. But I am waiting to hear back from Vern to confirm.

http://gyazo.com/4fc214cc3580eb73edd4d43f84b24869

[jgraham7897]

Here is Vern's response. https://www.facebook.com/vernwarnkef...t=feed_comment

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by jgraham7897

Here is Vern's response. https://www.facebook.com/vernwarnkef...t=feed_comment

Here's his reply from that link:

Yes. Shortly after the first of the year, I will be updating our current policy. It will be more streamlined and any extra "hoops" to jump through will be delt with. Hope this helps. I will also be updating the Sheriff web site to show the new policy.

Thus, to spare the new sheriff a headache right after the New Year, I'll change the title & OP to suggest being ready to apply in late January until I hear a specific date or the site changes. Plz PM me when those changes take place so I can update the title & OP yet again. (Hopefully, that will be the last update for awhile.)

[CG of MP]

Now would be an IDEAL time for Cal Guns leaders to get in touch with Mr. Warnke and let him know exactly what he can do legally to give everyone the easiest and best experience possible as well as making it so that Merced county can be colored dark green on the map that is floating around.

You guys got one chance at setting the tone for what can become a very pro carry county for at least the next 4 years. Everything from the application process to the limitations on the CCW should be covered.

This is not just for Merced... The domino effect will be palpable the more counties we can get SOLIDLY and COMPLETELY pro CCW the harder it will be to take those rights back when the Ca legislature makes its next move after Peruta ends against them. It also provides some peer pressure to other counties I suspect.

Reach out in a friendly way to Warnke and help him out! Bring our side's expertise before the other side sends in their propaganda and lawyers who will provide ill advised BS.

The iron is hot RIGHT NOW for CalGuns leadership hit this one out of the park.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by CG of MP

Now would be an IDEAL time for Cal Guns leaders to get in touch with Mr. Warnke and let him know exactly what he can do legally to give everyone the easiest and best experience possible as well as making it so that Merced county can be colored dark green on the map that is floating around.

You guys got one chance at setting the tone for what can become a very pro carry county for at least the next 4 years. Everything from the application process to the limitations on the CCW should be covered.

This is not just for Merced... The domino effect will be palpable the more counties we can get SOLIDLY and COMPLETELY pro CCW the harder it will be to take those rights back when the Ca legislature makes its next move after Peruta ends against them. It also provides some peer pressure to other counties I suspect.

Reach out in a friendly way to Warnke and help him out! Bring our side's expertise before the other side sends in their propaganda and lawyers who will provide ill advised BS.

The iron is hot RIGHT NOW for CalGuns leadership hit this one out of the park.

Probably the best thing is for one of you who live in Merced county (esp if you know Warnke), to get in touch w/Brandon Combs of CGF (he's "wildhawker" on CGN and only replies to emails via http://www.bcombs.net/contact/ , not PMs), and discuss it w/him. IIRC, years ago CGF made up a "model CCW policy" consistent w/Heller, MacDonald and state CCW law so that it should be pretty much "plug & play" for Warnke to use as his CCW policy.

[CG of MP]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Probably the best thing is for one of you who live in Merced county (esp if you know Warnke), to get in touch w/Brandon Combs of CGF (he's "wildhawker" on CGN and only replies to emails via http://www.bcombs.net/contact/ , not PMs), and discuss it w/him. IIRC, years ago CGF made up a "model CCW policy" consistent w/Heller, MacDonald and state CCW law so that it should be pretty much "plug & play" for Warnke to use as his CCW policy.

I emailed him and did not hear back.

I met with Vern today and he is in the process RIGHT NOW of putting his policies in place for CCW. I say again, NOW is the time for CalGuns Foundation to contact him if you want to have the most bang for the buck and to help Merced County turn from its former ways.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by CG of MP

I emailed him and did not hear back.

I met with Vern today and he is in the process RIGHT NOW of putting his policies in place for CCW. I say again, NOW is the time for you CalGuns to contact him if you want to have the most bang for the buck and to help Merced County turn from its former ways.

I'll email Brandon.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by CG of MP

I emailed him and did not hear back.

I met with Vern today and he is in the process RIGHT NOW of putting his policies in place for CCW. I say again, NOW is the time for CalGuns Foundation to contact him if you want to have the most bang for the buck and to help Merced County turn from its former ways.

Here's both CGF's Model CCW Application and Model CCW Policy (rev. 2012) .pdf linked at:
http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/carry/guide-policy/

I look forward to seeing major changes at:
http://www.co.merced.ca.us/index.aspx?NID=1918

[rivraton]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Here's both CGF's Model CCW Application and Model CCW Policy (rev. 2012) .pdf linked at:
http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/carry/guide-policy/

I look forward to seeing major changes at:
http://www.co.merced.ca.us/index.aspx?NID=1918

He could have at least taken down the "prior denial" requirement by now...
I mean really, how hard is that to do? A call to the web site guy...

[CG of MP]

Though the Prior Denial Graphic still appears the following TEXT has been placed on the Merced CCW page:


• Is it mandatory that I first apply for a CCW with the respective law enforcement agency within in city? No, you may choose to bypass your respective law enforcement agency and apply with the Merced County Sheriff's Department, despite what city you live in, within Merced County.
"

[Go Navy]

Do I have to live in Merced Co. to apply?

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by CG of MP

Though the Prior Denial Graphic still appears the following TEXT has been placed on the Merced CCW page:


• Is it mandatory that I first apply for a CCW with the respective law enforcement agency within in city? No, you may choose to bypass your respective law enforcement agency and apply with the Merced County Sheriff's Department, despite what city you live in, within Merced County.
"

ETA: I assume dropping the PD denial first requirement means the lawsuit against the Merced SO will be dropped by CGF. See post #123 on p.4: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...=352767&page=4

I hope Merced SO adds to their FAQs something like: "Is 'self-defense' or 'personal protection' sufficient Good Cause? Yes, expressing a desire to legally carry a concealed weapon for lawful self-defense is sufficient Good Cause for being issued a CCW."

Originally Posted by Go Navy

Do I have to live in Merced Co. to apply?

Yep, you need to have your primary residence (aka domicile) in Merced Co. If you live at multiple locations (e.g., work & stay in SF during the week, but your domicile is in Merced Co where you spend the weekends), you'll have to prove that Merced is in fact your primary residence by showing indications of it being your domicile (voter reg there, car reg there, bank there, getting bills, etc sent there, etc).

Vacation residences do not qualify. Don't try to fake it. If you do try to fake it and get caught, bad things could happen to you, incl loss of any chance of getting a CCW due to lack of Good Moral Character (GMC). Best just to live safely and wait patiently for Peruta or another case, like the rest of us.

Of course, the above is simplified and you should talk w/an attorney for specifics in your case.

ETA2: you should also review my posts in these 2 threads to see if they may help you get a CCW:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...php?p=12937319

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=876454

[Go Navy]

I definitely will not try that!

[bygbyrd]

I just turned in my application to the sheriffs department and did my live scan. I was told it would be 10 to 12 weeks before my background information got back to warnke. That sounds like a ridiculously long time. Does this sound right?

[rivraton]

Originally Posted by bygbyrd

I just turned in my application to the sheriffs department and did my live scan. I was told it would be 10 to 12 weeks before my background information got back to warnke. That sounds like a ridiculously long time. Does this sound right?

Did you have to get an appointment to turn in your application? I have called the CCW phone number several times, trying to find out, all I get is the canned message about how to get a blank app. or renewal..

[jgraham7897]

That does sound really long time.

[CG of MP]

I agree that this sounds like a bit of an extended time insofar as an unquestioned CCW is concerned. I do not believe at this point that it is a failure within the MCSO however. From what I have been able to garner the hold up seems to be the DOJ. I have a good source that tells me that Sheriff Warnke is currently signing CCWs that were started in November 2014 at this point in time.

[CG of MP]

Here is some more CCW info from an article posted in Merced County Times ( http://www.mercedcountytimes.net/edi...%20warnke.html )

Another question from a guest was about the process to get a concealed carry weapons (CCW) permit.

Warnke responded, "I want you to have this, but I also want to know that you know what you’re doing. Not everyone who has a gun knows how to use it. I need to know everybody with a permit is law abiding. If you’ve got a problem obeying the law, I’m not going to issue you a permit."

Regarding making the process easier, Warnke said that he was in favor of revising some of the questions on the application for a permit for concealed carry weapons (CCW) so that self-defense would be a sufficient justification.

He said, "I’m not going to make you jump through any extra hoops. If you don’t qualify, it’s going to be because of your background [check]."

He added, "You can fill out [permit] paperwork and go right to the live scan. We are here to serve you."

I am also given to understand that Livescans for Merced County CCW can be done at other places in the county including the UPS store in Los Banos.

[Paladin]

Someone -- ANYONE -- in Merced Co should get in touch w/the new sheriff (or his assistant) ASAP, to pass along to him the info linked at:
http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/carry/

CGF's Model CCW Policy is the 2nd link (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/carry/guide-policy/)

[bygbyrd]

Ya, I called and made an appointment. I called on a monday, got a call back the next day, and appointment set for the following Tuesday. Paid my $10 then went and did live scan for $113. They schedule the appointment for livescan as well.

[rivraton]

Originally Posted by bygbyrd

Ya, I called and made an appointment. I called on a monday, got a call back the next day, and appointment set for the following Tuesday. Paid my $10 then went and did live scan for $113. They schedule the appointment for livescan as well.

Did you leave a message or did a person answer when you called?

[JuzDuky]

Originally Posted by rivraton

Did you leave a message or did a person answer when you called?

I don't recall anyone ever picking up the CCW line on first call. Every time I have called in, I have left a message with a request to call me back. They have always returned my calls though sometimes it is the next day.

[bygbyrd]

I have only called the one time. I left a message and had my call returned the next day

[rivraton]

They must be really busy? Took several days to get return call, appointment is nearly 2 months out...

[CG of MP]

Has anyone had any recent experience with how long it takes AFTER they get the application and do the livescan before the permit is actually issued?

[BlK Lantern]

As reluctant as I may be. I may just give a chance and apply. I just prefer to "wait and see" for approval turn out of current applicants.

[CG of MP]

Originally Posted by BlK Lantern

As reluctant as I may be. I may just give a chance and apply. I just prefer to "wait and see" for approval turn out of current applicants.

Can you give us a little more detail about what you mean by your last sentence?

[jgraham7897]

I think he's saying he would prefer to wait and see if Vern is going to follow through with his campaign promises.

[Paladin]

They still need to remove that big, black banner from their CCW webpage saying that you have to first apply and get denied by your PD before applying to the SO. Vern's been in office since late Dec, almost 2 months now. It will take their IT guy, what, 5 minutes to delete the jpg.

From: http://www.co.merced.ca.us/index.aspx?NID=1918



The funny thing is that their CCW page has been edited since Vern took over, as seen in these quotes:

• Do you have to take a CCW safety class and qualification course prior to submitting your application? No, this a requirement after Sheriff Warnke's approval

• Is it mandatory that I first apply for a CCW with the respective law enforcement agency within in city? No, you may choose to bypass your respective law enforcement agency and apply with the Merced County Sheriff's Department, despite what city you live in, within Merced County.

[CG of MP]

In addition it appears there will be a 3 gun limit on the permits despite what was understood previously.

[Paladin]

Does anyone know if anyone's been issued a CCW by Warnke using just "self-defense" as GC?

He made a lot of campaign promises re. cleaning up Madera's CCW application-issuance process and I'd like to find out if he's keeping them.

If he's not, he'll not be the first CA sheriff who's turned out to be nothing more than "a politician w/a gun & a badge...."

[jgraham7897]

from what I've been told he's been issuing CCWs two people that applied last year

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by jgraham7897

from what I've been told he's been issuing CCWs two people that applied last year

Warkne took office in mid-Dec. Only two new CCWers in 2 months is not good.... At that rate, you'll have a whopping 12 new CCWers after his first 12 months in office.

IMHO, CGNers in counties that "switch" and start issuing permits need to make up small fliers/business card fliers w/basic info (e.g., web address/es to more info) re. getting CCWs in their county and leave them off at all gun shops (to be handed out w/receipts), shooting ranges, and shooting clubs (IDPA, USPSA/IPSC), in that county and at ranges in neighboring counties (since residents living on the border of the target county may go to a range in the neighboring county). Increasing the number of CCWs is our best way of ensuring a sheriff won't change his mind and become restrictive in issuance, of ensuring that any newly elected sheriff won't be an anti, and of reducing crime. See the link in my sig line w/>150 CCW incidents.

[JohnC'sBobcat]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Warkne took office in mid-Dec. Only two new CCWers in 2 months is not good.... At that rate, you'll have a whopping 12 new CCWers after his first 12 months in office.

IMHO, CGNers in counties that "switch" and start issuing permits need to make up small fliers/business card fliers w/basic info (e.g., web address/es to more info) re. getting CCWs in their county and leave them off at all gun shops (to be handed out w/receipts), shooting ranges, and shooting clubs (IDPA, USPSA/IPSC), in that county and at ranges in neighboring counties (since residents living on the border of the target county may go to a range in the neighboring county). Increasing the number of CCWs is our best way of ensuring a sheriff won't change his mind and become restrictive in issuance, of ensuring that any newly elected sheriff won't be an anti, and of reducing crime. See the link in my sig line w/>150 CCW incidents.

I think the "two" was a mistype of "to."
As in,
"from what I've been told he's been issuing CCWs to people that applied last year" was my assessment of his intent.