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Old 12-10-2017, 9:14 PM
Dukenukem117 Dukenukem117 is offline
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Default Firearm restrictions in roommate agreements?

My roommate and I were having the eternal debate of what type of gun is best for home defense, and it got me wondering if it would be legal to place certain restrictions in a roommate agreement for new roommates if he were to move out?

I'm personally fine with rifles and I have rifles, but I don't like the idea of living with someone carrying a pistol on them at all time unless they are law enforcement or ex-military.

This is all hypothetical of course, and the odds of me running into an actual situation is low since the rate of gun ownership here is low, and CCW is even lower.
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Old 12-10-2017, 9:21 PM
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Old 12-10-2017, 9:23 PM
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Why are you scared?



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Old 12-10-2017, 9:33 PM
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Yupp, get the lawn chair out.

But to the OP, you should really try and get a feel for the character of the person you want to live with. If they seem like a sketchy person, don't room with them. Because in reality, you will be in the unit with this person where there will be things like kitchen knives and other household items that may kill you. If you room with an awesome gun owner, it will be just like living with an awesome non gun owner.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:01 PM
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Why are you scared?



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Same reason I don't bike.

Most people have drivers licenses.

Most people are safe drivers usually - myself included. But this is also under normal conditions. I don't imagine most CA people know what to do in case of snow for example - myself included.

Most people don't receive additional driving training after getting their license.

Most people drink at home.

Everyone is human, everyone gets stressed, everyone can lose their temper.

Everyone is capable of making a mistake at some point or another, or just **** happens. My shop teacher once told me that the two types of people who are most likely to get injured are those who are completely new and those who are completely comfortable.

I've lived with roommates for 8 years, with at most 5 under one roof at a time. We were all strangers when we met (mostly in college) but became good friends. We've never gotten to blows but there was one night where one decided to play a prank and kept relocking the door as another was trying to enter, and supposedly someone choked someone. Both accused the other of being drunk, and to this day I have no idea who to believe.

More common are heated debates and a few times were someone really lost their temper. It's unnerving enough to see that side of people who are fine 99.9% of the time, but it'd be worse if I knew they had a loaded gun on them.

But MUCH more common are just stupid guy antics or questionable behavior. I once caught my roommate in our enclosed balcony that overlooked a pool with kids in it. He had his shirt off, was facing towards the pool with the shutter windows open, and he was cleaning his mauser. I don't know if they could have saw him, but if I were a parent and I saw this naked redneck looking dude with long hair cleaning his gun while looking at my kids, I'd be alarmed. One guy decided to do electrical work without shutting off the power and zapped himself. Another almost burned the house down after leaving something on the stove.

And we had a fair amount of stupid 'hold my beer' bets. We eventually stopped after one guy ran blindfolded into a door and was knocked unconscious.

So you can see how a bunch of guys who have lived together for years and are very comfortable together can get into trouble. And to whatever degree it matters, we are all college graduates, two are engineers, one works in the medical field, and one in IT. Most of our acquaintances would probably describe us as normal, upstanding, productive citizens. And as stupid as some of this behavior sounds, I enjoyed the chumminess even if it made a mess at times. But as much as we trust each other to be there if we needed a hand, there wasn't mutual trust all around when it came to weapons and firearms. It's still that way.

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Originally Posted by userformerlyknownasfitty View Post
Yupp, get the lawn chair out.

But to the OP, you should really try and get a feel for the character of the person you want to live with. If they seem like a sketchy person, don't room with them. Because in reality, you will be in the unit with this person where there will be things like kitchen knives and other household items that may kill you. If you room with an awesome gun owner, it will be just like living with an awesome non gun owner.
I'm not saying this is a blanket rule and I can't make exceptions or come to change my mind over time. But I know from experience that even the most responsible people sometimes make mistakes. We had a lot of close calls in retrospect, and it usually was just from innocent mistakes.

Actually come to think of it, the most responsible person of all of us made the biggest lapse in judgment that could have derailed his entire life. Things worked out in the end, but I'm not going to recommend anyone do what he did.

Ah, good times...

Last edited by Dukenukem117; 12-10-2017 at 10:10 PM..
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:18 PM
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And even the veteran exception is more out of respect for their service than actual 100% confidence in their judgment. A friend of mine who is married to a vet has told me stories where she was worried at times about her husband having a gun. And I think she was rightfully worried (more for his safety than hers).
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:23 PM
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You do know the best option is to get a place without roommates, either a smaller place or a place you buy, right?
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:24 PM
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Last edited by JeffSD; 12-10-2017 at 10:26 PM..
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:25 PM
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You do know the best option is to get a place without roommates, either a smaller place or a place you buy, right?
I enjoy having roommates and I prefer to live with someone. I just don't trust anyone to be responsible 100% of the time. It's just a personal comfort thing.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dukenukem117 View Post
I enjoy having roommates and I prefer to live with someone. I just don't trust anyone to be responsible 100% of the time. It's just a personal comfort thing.
People are fallible. Nobody is responsible 100% of the time, look at the marriages that blow up every day. Most people spend way more time getting to know each other than you can possibly get to know a roommate before they move in.

Do what makes you comfortable, but i bet there are knives in the kitchen and heavy stuff like bookends laying around....
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:42 PM
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People are fallible. Nobody is responsible 100% of the time, look at the marriages that blow up every day. Most people spend way more time getting to know each other than you can possibly get to know a roommate before they move in.

Do what makes you comfortable, but i bet there are knives in the kitchen and heavy stuff like bookends laying around....
99% of the times we have endangered ourselves were because of stupidity, clumsiness, or forgetfulness. I can count the number of instances where someone lost their temper on one hand - after 7 years with some of them.

And I'm fine if they feel the need to carry a gun every time they leave the house or if they want to sleep with it next to their bed, but I don't see why they would need to have it on them while drinking a beer and watching TV - at least in this neighborhood. Now I don't know if people actually do that even if they have a CCW license, or if anyone like this actually exists in real life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGnyFDrK_gM

I'm just curious if it's legal to put into a roommate agreement.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:48 PM
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Roomate rule. If you are a gun owner with roomates and are not ok with them handling pistols at home, do not be roomates.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:52 PM
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Roomate rule. If you are a gun owner with roomates and are not ok with them handling pistols at home, do not be roomates.
I'd like to hope most people would see it that way, but I've seen reddit threads where people have the opinion of 'what they don't know can't hurt them'.
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Old 12-11-2017, 1:06 AM
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Different rules apply to roommates. A roommate lease rather then a residential lease. I'm talking about discrimination. For example if your single male 40 years old and have an applicant that's an 18 year old female, have only one bathroom/shower it may be within your rights to deny her.

As for other set rules for roommates (Assuming your the property owner) could exclude gun owners. But just heads up, this would not be pretty in court if your roommate made a case this this is the only reason you didn't renew his lease. Maybe you could pull is off in LA or San Fran?

What is your concern a SD or ND?

My concern would be their mental stability, prescribed meds etc.
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Old 12-11-2017, 1:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Dukenukem117 View Post
99% of the times we have endangered ourselves were because of stupidity, clumsiness, or forgetfulness. I can count the number of instances where someone lost their temper on one hand - after 7 years with some of them.

And I'm fine if they feel the need to carry a gun every time they leave the house or if they want to sleep with it next to their bed, but I don't see why they would need to have it on them while drinking a beer and watching TV - at least in this neighborhood. Now I don't know if people actually do that even if they have a CCW license, or if anyone like this actually exists in real life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGnyFDrK_gM

I'm just curious if it's legal to put into a roommate agreement.
1. Are you the actual property owner? Not renting and subletting?
What county do you reside. Many counties have ordinances to support the rights of many types of people
2. Fair housing could get involved as by law you have 30 days to disclose the reason for denial.
3. call inland fair housing 1-1800 # if you need some free advice
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Old 12-11-2017, 5:45 AM
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Well, the kinds of stunts you're describing sounds like people who haven't grown up yet... regardless of their calendar age. It seems to me those types of people are the concern... not the firearms per se. Maybe that should be the focus of your "roommate rule" instead of guns. It doesn't take a gun to burn the place down while everyone's sleeping or any number of other bad outcome situations due to reckless/irresponsible behavior. Someone responsible I trust with a gun. Someone irresponsible/unpredictable, I wouldn't want to go to sleep under the same roof, gun or no gun.
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Old 12-11-2017, 5:51 AM
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If they can't be trusted with carrying a firearm they should not be your roommate.

Oh and for me it's not that I need to carry to watch tv, it's simply pants on gun on...why take the time to arm and disarm every times you come and go? Not to mention the advantages if a need does arise while watching tv with my pants on.
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Old 12-11-2017, 6:11 AM
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its clear you have a retort to everything everyone has suggested on here...

you clearly aren't confused on what you want to do so go out and do it and stop trying to analyze something you can't have any control of.
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Old 12-11-2017, 6:28 AM
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Old 12-11-2017, 7:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukenukem117 View Post
....it got me wondering if it would be legal to place certain restrictions in a roommate agreement for new roommates if he were to move out?

I'm personally fine with rifles and I have rifles, but I don't like the idea of living with someone carrying a pistol on them at all time unless they are law enforcement or ex-military.....
Yes, it would be legal.
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Old 12-11-2017, 7:19 AM
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Dukenukem117,

As far as roommates go, you need to look at your situation and decide if you're going to say anything. I have been a landlord for 5 years and am well versed in LL/Ten law. I lived with roommates for 12 years and 2 of them new I had firearms.

As a landlord, my rental agreement asks if they have ever been convicted of a felony. I ensure that they do not smoke anywhere on the property, and deny the use of any illicit drugs. I know MMJ is legal in California, but I tell them I can not be in its presence due to a federal security clearance.

I do not disclose that I have firearms until well after the fact and if the tenant is uncomfortable with that, I allow them to terminate the lease at their leisure. I usually prefer to request female tenants, for that reason...I have less issues than I would with males, especially with my garage full of tools. I joke with potential applicants that a vast majority of ladies do not care about the differences between tablesaws, hacksaws, handsaws and chopsaws and that's what I prefer. I mention nothing about firearms.

I did have one roommate ask if she could have firearms in the house, as she owned them and worked in a gun store. I fell in love instantly.

You can not be held accountable for discriminating based on firearms presence or absence, so you can straight up tell them you do not allow firearms. It gets sticky if they find out you have them later, so be aware of that.

For the record, before anyone mentions HUD and discrimination, I reside in the home and rent rooms. There are some specific differences in the law regarding boarders living in the home. I direct attention to the "Mrs. Murphy" exemption.

Mark49 brings up an awesome point: the things to be aware of are prescribed meds (my personal concern is lithium for bipolar disorder; I've experienced that disaster as a tenant), felony convictions, etc. This is wisdom regardless of whether or not firearms are a part of the picture.

Bottom line is this: Get a feel for the new roommie before you say anything, but make sure they have a generous way out if they don't like it.
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Old 12-11-2017, 7:56 AM
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You can't have a handgun, because no one has ever done anything bad or stupid with a long gun. That makes a whole bunch of sense.

While it is well with in your right to limit what type's of firearms are in your home, I think your idea that people with handguns are more prone to issues is misplaced.

The biggest problem with expecting a member of either the military or law enforcement to be any more responsible than the rest of us, is that they all come from the same gene pool as the rest of us. They are just as prone to everything including judgement mistakes, accidents as everyone else is.
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Old 12-11-2017, 8:18 AM
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Originally Posted by userformerlyknownasfitty View Post
Yupp, get the lawn chair out.



But to the OP, you should really try and get a feel for the character of the person you want to live with. If they seem like a sketchy person, don't room with them. Because in reality, you will be in the unit with this person where there will be things like kitchen knives and other household items that may kill you. If you room with an awesome gun owner, it will be just like living with an awesome non gun owner.

A very long time ago, a female roommate declared her love for me and announced that if I didn’t drop my GF for her, she would kill herself. Since she was holding my large kitchen knife, we had a rather interesting discussion.

I convinced her to put the knife down and a few days later I asked her to move out. Luckily there weren’t any more theatrics.




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Old 12-11-2017, 9:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Dukenukem117 View Post
Same reason I don't bike.

Most people have drivers licenses.

Most people are safe drivers usually - myself included. But this is also under normal conditions. I don't imagine most CA people know what to do in case of snow for example - myself included.

Most people don't receive additional driving training after getting their license.

Most people drink at home.

Everyone is human, everyone gets stressed, everyone can lose their temper.

Everyone is capable of making a mistake at some point or another, or just **** happens. My shop teacher once told me that the two types of people who are most likely to get injured are those who are completely new and those who are completely comfortable.

I've lived with roommates for 8 years, with at most 5 under one roof at a time. We were all strangers when we met (mostly in college) but became good friends. We've never gotten to blows but there was one night where one decided to play a prank and kept relocking the door as another was trying to enter, and supposedly someone choked someone. Both accused the other of being drunk, and to this day I have no idea who to believe.

More common are heated debates and a few times were someone really lost their temper. It's unnerving enough to see that side of people who are fine 99.9% of the time, but it'd be worse if I knew they had a loaded gun on them.

But MUCH more common are just stupid guy antics or questionable behavior. I once caught my roommate in our enclosed balcony that overlooked a pool with kids in it. He had his shirt off, was facing towards the pool with the shutter windows open, and he was cleaning his mauser. I don't know if they could have saw him, but if I were a parent and I saw this naked redneck looking dude with long hair cleaning his gun while looking at my kids, I'd be alarmed. One guy decided to do electrical work without shutting off the power and zapped himself. Another almost burned the house down after leaving something on the stove.

And we had a fair amount of stupid 'hold my beer' bets. We eventually stopped after one guy ran blindfolded into a door and was knocked unconscious.

So you can see how a bunch of guys who have lived together for years and are very comfortable together can get into trouble. And to whatever degree it matters, we are all college graduates, two are engineers, one works in the medical field, and one in IT. Most of our acquaintances would probably describe us as normal, upstanding, productive citizens. And as stupid as some of this behavior sounds, I enjoyed the chumminess even if it made a mess at times. But as much as we trust each other to be there if we needed a hand, there wasn't mutual trust all around when it came to weapons and firearms. It's still that way.



I'm not saying this is a blanket rule and I can't make exceptions or come to change my mind over time. But I know from experience that even the most responsible people sometimes make mistakes. We had a lot of close calls in retrospect, and it usually was just from innocent mistakes.

Actually come to think of it, the most responsible person of all of us made the biggest lapse in judgment that could have derailed his entire life. Things worked out in the end, but I'm not going to recommend anyone do what he did.

Ah, good times...
Life is not without risk. I would suggest you make sure you don't upset someone enough to make them want to discharge a firearm in your direction.

Just because you include a no handgun policy doesn't mean you can enforce it.

Once you lease a room it is no longer your property to do with what you please. You've sold that right.

How about not having a roomate if you can't trust anyone?

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Old 12-11-2017, 9:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dukenukem117 View Post
Same reason I don't bike.

Most people have drivers licenses.

Most people are safe drivers usually - myself included. But this is also under normal conditions. I don't imagine most CA people know what to do in case of snow for example - myself included.

Most people don't receive additional driving training after getting their license.

Most people drink at home.

Everyone is human, everyone gets stressed, everyone can lose their temper.

Everyone is capable of making a mistake at some point or another, or just **** happens. My shop teacher once told me that the two types of people who are most likely to get injured are those who are completely new and those who are completely comfortable.

I've lived with roommates for 8 years, with at most 5 under one roof at a time. We were all strangers when we met (mostly in college) but became good friends. We've never gotten to blows but there was one night where one decided to play a prank and kept relocking the door as another was trying to enter, and supposedly someone choked someone. Both accused the other of being drunk, and to this day I have no idea who to believe.

More common are heated debates and a few times were someone really lost their temper. It's unnerving enough to see that side of people who are fine 99.9% of the time, but it'd be worse if I knew they had a loaded gun on them.

But MUCH more common are just stupid guy antics or questionable behavior. I once caught my roommate in our enclosed balcony that overlooked a pool with kids in it. He had his shirt off, was facing towards the pool with the shutter windows open, and he was cleaning his mauser. I don't know if they could have saw him, but if I were a parent and I saw this naked redneck looking dude with long hair cleaning his gun while looking at my kids, I'd be alarmed. One guy decided to do electrical work without shutting off the power and zapped himself. Another almost burned the house down after leaving something on the stove.

And we had a fair amount of stupid 'hold my beer' bets. We eventually stopped after one guy ran blindfolded into a door and was knocked unconscious.

So you can see how a bunch of guys who have lived together for years and are very comfortable together can get into trouble. And to whatever degree it matters, we are all college graduates, two are engineers, one works in the medical field, and one in IT. Most of our acquaintances would probably describe us as normal, upstanding, productive citizens. And as stupid as some of this behavior sounds, I enjoyed the chumminess even if it made a mess at times. But as much as we trust each other to be there if we needed a hand, there wasn't mutual trust all around when it came to weapons and firearms. It's still that way.



I'm not saying this is a blanket rule and I can't make exceptions or come to change my mind over time. But I know from experience that even the most responsible people sometimes make mistakes. We had a lot of close calls in retrospect, and it usually was just from innocent mistakes.

Actually come to think of it, the most responsible person of all of us made the biggest lapse in judgment that could have derailed his entire life. Things worked out in the end, but I'm not going to recommend anyone do what he did.

Ah, good times...

It really seems like you are projecting concerns about yourself onto other people you may or may not ever encounter. Especially some of the points you make about why you should be in control of what another person living in the same space can have.

"We had a lot of close calls in retrospect, and it usually was just from innocent mistakes." YIKES


"Actually come to think of it, the most responsible person of all of us made the biggest lapse in judgment that could have derailed his entire life. Things worked out in the end, but I'm not going to recommend anyone do what he did." This is a little terrifying.
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Old 12-11-2017, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukenukem117 View Post
My roommate and I were having the eternal debate of what type of gun is best for home defense, and it got me wondering if it would be legal to place certain restrictions in a roommate agreement for new roommates if he were to move out?

I'm personally fine with rifles and I have rifles, but I don't like the idea of living with someone carrying a pistol on them at all time unless they are law enforcement or ex-military.

This is all hypothetical of course, and the odds of me running into an actual situation is low since the rate of gun ownership here is low, and CCW is even lower.
This is a common misconception by those who don't know much about firearms. Just because someone has served in the military or has been a LEO it doesn't mean they know much about firearm and, it sure doesn't mean they practice safe firearms handling. Those who think they know firearms solely based on the fact were military or LE are usually the WORST and most unsafe firearms handlers and normally pretty poor marksmen too. That doesn't mean that all military and LE don't know firearms and practice safe firearms handling but, it also doesn't mean they do.
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Old 12-11-2017, 10:49 AM
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If you are afraid of people doing stupid things with a handgun, then why doesn't that fear extend to long guns?
As others have pointed out, you seem to be projecting your own issues onto potential roommates. Do you not feel that you are responsible enough to own or be around a firearm without being tempted to do something stupid with it? If that is the case, then you should keep your home firearms free. It is perfectly legal to do so.
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Old 12-11-2017, 11:54 AM
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If you are afraid of people doing stupid things with a handgun, then why doesn't that fear extend to long guns?
As others have pointed out, you seem to be projecting your own issues onto potential roommates. Do you not feel that you are responsible enough to own or be around a firearm without being tempted to do something stupid with it? If that is the case, then you should keep your home firearms free. It is perfectly legal to do so.


this, 100%

so, a 12 gauge in your roommates closet is OK...
but entering a common area of the home with a concealed handgun or ownership of a handgun in your shared home in general is not OK.

seems kinda contradictory to me...
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Old 12-11-2017, 11:57 AM
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Old 12-11-2017, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark49 View Post
Different rules apply to roommates. A roommate lease rather then a residential lease. I'm talking about discrimination. For example if your single male 40 years old and have an applicant that's an 18 year old female, have only one bathroom/shower it may be within your rights to deny her.

As for other set rules for roommates (Assuming your the property owner) could exclude gun owners. But just heads up, this would not be pretty in court if your roommate made a case this this is the only reason you didn't renew his lease. Maybe you could pull is off in LA or San Fran?

What is your concern a SD or ND?

My concern would be their mental stability, prescribed meds etc.
I don't know what SD or ND is. Am I even allowed to ask about stuff like health / mental history?


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Originally Posted by Mark49 View Post
1. Are you the actual property owner? Not renting and subletting?
What county do you reside. Many counties have ordinances to support the rights of many types of people
2. Fair housing could get involved as by law you have 30 days to disclose the reason for denial.
3. call inland fair housing 1-1800 # if you need some free advice
I'm only asking as a renter and maybe subletting for now, not property owner. Eventually I'd like to be asking as a property owner who also lives in the unit, though the odds of me buying property in CA is pretty low. I'd imagine it would be more legally problematic for the property owner to put this in a lease if they weren't living in the unit.

As for county, I currently live in Orange, but I was in LA for a long time. I probably won't be going back LA any time soon, but it could still happen. Orange is suppose to be more 'conservative' but I honestly haven't noticed a difference. The business regulations are still a PITA and the congressional representative is a disappointment (to say the least).

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Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
Well, the kinds of stunts you're describing sounds like people who haven't grown up yet... regardless of their calendar age. It seems to me those types of people are the concern... not the firearms per se. Maybe that should be the focus of your "roommate rule" instead of guns. It doesn't take a gun to burn the place down while everyone's sleeping or any number of other bad outcome situations due to reckless/irresponsible behavior. Someone responsible I trust with a gun. Someone irresponsible/unpredictable, I wouldn't want to go to sleep under the same roof, gun or no gun.
This hypothetical is with a stranger, so I wouldn't know how they behave until I live with them. But yes, this is by no means, complete security against all dumb or crazy incidences.

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Originally Posted by Supersapper View Post
Dukenukem117,

As far as roommates go, you need to look at your situation and decide if you're going to say anything. I have been a landlord for 5 years and am well versed in LL/Ten law. I lived with roommates for 12 years and 2 of them new I had firearms.

As a landlord, my rental agreement asks if they have ever been convicted of a felony. I ensure that they do not smoke anywhere on the property, and deny the use of any illicit drugs. I know MMJ is legal in California, but I tell them I can not be in its presence due to a federal security clearance.

I do not disclose that I have firearms until well after the fact and if the tenant is uncomfortable with that, I allow them to terminate the lease at their leisure. I usually prefer to request female tenants, for that reason...I have less issues than I would with males, especially with my garage full of tools. I joke with potential applicants that a vast majority of ladies do not care about the differences between tablesaws, hacksaws, handsaws and chopsaws and that's what I prefer. I mention nothing about firearms.

I did have one roommate ask if she could have firearms in the house, as she owned them and worked in a gun store. I fell in love instantly.

You can not be held accountable for discriminating based on firearms presence or absence, so you can straight up tell them you do not allow firearms. It gets sticky if they find out you have them later, so be aware of that.

For the record, before anyone mentions HUD and discrimination, I reside in the home and rent rooms. There are some specific differences in the law regarding boarders living in the home. I direct attention to the "Mrs. Murphy" exemption.

Mark49 brings up an awesome point: the things to be aware of are prescribed meds (my personal concern is lithium for bipolar disorder; I've experienced that disaster as a tenant), felony convictions, etc. This is wisdom regardless of whether or not firearms are a part of the picture.

Bottom line is this: Get a feel for the new roommie before you say anything, but make sure they have a generous way out if they don't like it.
Given where I live, I can see more people refusing to live with me because I have any firearms than me even finding someone with a CCW where we need to have this discussion. And I'm going to be forthright about having guns because in the event I'm working on them, I don't want to have to tip toe around someone. But I've never had a LL ask about meds or health history so I didn't think that was even legal.

Personally speaking, I don't think that having guns is a 'none of your business' topic when dealing with roommates. When my dad passed me his AR, I kept it hidden from my current roommate for a few months as I thought about this. A previous roommate that lived with the both of us recommended I keep it a secret forever because they've had more altercations in the past.

But I disliked the secrecy and felt like he had a right to know where it is and how it is kept. He did freak out very briefly funny enough. But I would want to know where and how a roommate kept their guns in case friends come over with little kids, and they roam around the house. And it's not the presence of guns that concerns me (seeing how I own one), but how they are stored. Keeping it on themselves at all time, loaded and concealed, is part of 'how they are stored'.

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Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
You can't have a handgun, because no one has ever done anything bad or stupid with a long gun. That makes a whole bunch of sense.

While it is well with in your right to limit what type's of firearms are in your home, I think your idea that people with handguns are more prone to issues is misplaced.

The biggest problem with expecting a member of either the military or law enforcement to be any more responsible than the rest of us, is that they all come from the same gene pool as the rest of us. They are just as prone to everything including judgement mistakes, accidents as everyone else is.
To be fair, I didn't say no handguns entirely. I just said I'm not comfortable living with someone who is always loaded. My roommates and I have a history of 'spirited' debates, and sometimes things get pretty heated. I don't know if it we would have been as candid around each other if one of us had a loaded gun on them. It may have made us more polite, and you might say that's a good thing, but I prefer having a comfortable but candid relationship with people I live with, and that we are polite out of principle than fear.

And it's not because I think handguns are inherently more lethal in the hands of someone determined, but in general if you want to increase the likelihood someone acts on impulse, you make it as readily available and easy as possible. It's why some people recommend freezing your credit card in a block of ice if you have a spending problem, and why you have always see junkfood placed at checkout lines. Now I don't doubt that the vast majority of people who gets a CCW takes it as a serious responsibility and are probably extra vigilant as a result, but we're still human in the end. So unless I'm living somewhere where the likelihood of violent crime is comparable to the likelihood of human error, I don't think it's a risk I'd like to take if I don't have to. It's just a comfort thing, and something I'd like to have if given the choice. But this is also assuming I'm the one who is already living there and interviewing people who are moving in. If it were the other way around, obviously I'll either have to find somewhere else or get use to it.

With cops, I do think the training is a bigger part of it as they are trained for this environment. But since there is the risk of a criminal looking to specifically harm the officer either out of retaliation or whatever, I think the safety provided greatly outweighs any risks.

With vets, it's not so much the training - though that certainly helps. This is going to sound super preachy.... but.... I think I have a civic duty to go out of my way to accommodate those who taken the biggest risks and made the biggest sacrifices to preserve our way of life. I also think that as a country where the civilian population is the one with war making powers, we civilians are responsible for their well-being during and after service. If anyone came back with issues, its cause we sent them there. I don't think anyone would disagree that broadly speaking, America hasn't done a good job of taking care of our vets. But for guns in particular, I don't I have a right to tell a vet what he or she should be allowed to have. Given they are trained to treat their firearm as the most important piece of gear they have, I shouldn't expect that to change just because they were discharged. So if it makes them more comfortable to be armed at all times, then it's on me to get use to it. I'd go as far as to say that even if there was a significant risk of them hurting themselves or others around them, it's our fault as a society for not providing better, and we need to either find a solution that doesn't involve adding restrictions on them or just learn to live with it. Maybe we'll think twice being declaring war next time. [/soapbox]

Funny anecdote that relates to this was when I took my FSC test, one of few questions I got wrong was that I assumed everyone who served in the military or law enforcement automatically had CCW rights. I was told that the test is mainly common sense, so I thought that was the answer. Guess not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
A very long time ago, a female roommate declared her love for me and announced that if I didn’t drop my GF for her, she would kill herself. Since she was holding my large kitchen knife, we had a rather interesting discussion.

I convinced her to put the knife down and a few days later I asked her to move out. Luckily there weren’t any more theatrics.

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What a crazy experience. But if I were in your situation, I'd still prefer the other person have a melee weapon than a gun. If things really go sour, I have a few ways to defend myself, not the least of which is to simply run away.
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Old 12-11-2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ef9boy88 View Post
It really seems like you are projecting concerns about yourself onto other people you may or may not ever encounter. Especially some of the points you make about why you should be in control of what another person living in the same space can have.

"We had a lot of close calls in retrospect, and it usually was just from innocent mistakes." YIKES


"Actually come to think of it, the most responsible person of all of us made the biggest lapse in judgment that could have derailed his entire life. Things worked out in the end, but I'm not going to recommend anyone do what he did." This is a little terrifying.
At no point did I say anyone can't have something in their possession. My specific concern was having it readily available at a moments notice. As for projecting myself, that's certainly a fair accusation, but don't we all use our life experience to inform our decisions? And when it comes to human psychology and behavior, don't we all use ourselves as a starting point? As for the close calls and stuff, everyone was guilty at one point or another. I've yet to meet a single person in life who has never made a blunder that injured or endangered themselves or another person.

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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
This is a common misconception by those who don't know much about firearms. Just because someone has served in the military or has been a LEO it doesn't mean they know much about firearm and, it sure doesn't mean they practice safe firearms handling. Those who think they know firearms solely based on the fact were military or LE are usually the WORST and most unsafe firearms handlers and normally pretty poor marksmen too. That doesn't mean that all military and LE don't know firearms and practice safe firearms handling but, it also doesn't mean they do.
Maybe I am wrong to have that preconception, in which case I appreciate you telling me the truth. But my reason goes beyond competence, as noted in my previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
If you are afraid of people doing stupid things with a handgun, then why doesn't that fear extend to long guns?
As others have pointed out, you seem to be projecting your own issues onto potential roommates. Do you not feel that you are responsible enough to own or be around a firearm without being tempted to do something stupid with it? If that is the case, then you should keep your home firearms free. It is perfectly legal to do so.
Same reason one would be more nervous about an angry person with a knife already in his or her hand as opposed to the kitchen rack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Snuffalupagus View Post
this, 100%

so, a 12 gauge in your roommates closet is OK...
but entering a common area of the home with a concealed handgun or ownership of a handgun in your shared home in general is not OK.

seems kinda contradictory to me...
At no point did I say ownership of a handgun was not ok. If I did, please point it out, because I can't find it. I also didn't say I want to set up a 'no-concealed handgun' area. I said I don't like the idea of living with someone who feels the need to always have it on them at all times, or readily available in a split second (like hidden under every table). No roommate agreement is ever perfectly followed, but it outlines an ideal setup to measure against and some ways of recourse if consistently broken.

Like ideally everyone cleans up after themselves, but everyone knows it won't always happen. And I don't get why it has to be a black or white issue. If my roommate likes to frequently bring over friends who don't like guns and requests that I try to keep it out of sight in the living room, I can either do my best to accommodate even if it makes accessing it quickly for defense more difficult, or I can say 'my house, my guns, my rules, 2nd amendment, tough!' Maybe I'm a squish for going with the former, but it seems like a lot of people here would do the latter.
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Old 12-11-2017, 1:06 PM
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You do know the best option is to get a place without roommates, either a smaller place or a place you buy, right?
That’s too obvious.
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Old 12-11-2017, 1:16 PM
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Old 12-11-2017, 2:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Dukenukem117 View Post
At no point did I say anyone can't have something in their possession. My specific concern was having it readily available at a moments notice. As for projecting myself, that's certainly a fair accusation, but don't we all use our life experience to inform our decisions? And when it comes to human psychology and behavior, don't we all use ourselves as a starting point? As for the close calls and stuff, everyone was guilty at one point or another. I've yet to meet a single person in life who has never made a blunder that injured or endangered themselves or another person.



Maybe I am wrong to have that preconception, in which case I appreciate you telling me the truth. But my reason goes beyond competence, as noted in my previous post.



Same reason one would be more nervous about an angry person with a knife already in his or her hand as opposed to the kitchen rack.



At no point did I say ownership of a handgun was not ok. If I did, please point it out, because I can't find it. I also didn't say I want to set up a 'no-concealed handgun' area. I said I don't like the idea of living with someone who feels the need to always have it on them at all times, or readily available in a split second (like hidden under every table). No roommate agreement is ever perfectly followed, but it outlines an ideal setup to measure against and some ways of recourse if consistently broken.

Like ideally everyone cleans up after themselves, but everyone knows it won't always happen. And I don't get why it has to be a black or white issue. If my roommate likes to frequently bring over friends who don't like guns and requests that I try to keep it out of sight in the living room, I can either do my best to accommodate even if it makes accessing it quickly for defense more difficult, or I can say 'my house, my guns, my rules, 2nd amendment, tough!' Maybe I'm a squish for going with the former, but it seems like a lot of people here would do the latter.
OP, are you really sure having roommate/s is the best situation for you ??
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Old 12-11-2017, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dukenukem117 View Post
Same reason one would be more nervous about an angry person with a knife already in his or her hand as opposed to the kitchen rack.
But it's okay to walk out of their room with a shotgun or rifle and place it next to them while sitting on the couch?
Most people that I know carry their handgun in a holster, they don't walk around with it in their hand. Are you projecting your own behavior because this is not normal for most people.
Tell me, since you mentioned knives, are you also interested in banning roommates that may carry a knife on their belt or in their pocket?

If you are really that scared of roommates becoming angry and turning to violence, you need to pick better roommates because this is not normal behavior and if someone is intent on doing you serious harm, almost anything can become a weapon.
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Old 12-11-2017, 8:39 PM
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OP, you are throwing out a lot of concerns. First off, if someone is carrying a loaded firearm and is willing to brandish or use the firearm over a heated argument or other disagreement, then that person is not mature enough to own firearms. You need to select your roommates carefully.

Consider that you do not need that gun until you do. When you do, you will not have time to go get it from where every you have it locked up, load it, chamber a round, and then use the firearm to defend yourself against the bad guy. That is why many people chose to carry at home or at a minimum, keep the loaded firearm within arms reach.

If you are drinking or engaging in stupid behavior, then lock the gun up.

Another thing to consider, do you really want your roommates to know about your guns? The couple of times I had roommates they never knew about the gun I kept in my room. Once you tell someone else, you have no control over the information. They might let it slip and then you become a target for a burglary. If you have your own bedroom, get a small safe and lock it up and if asked what's in the safe, say my stuff.

You do not have to be secretive. If you have a roommate that is a gun person and you go shooting together, then of course they will know you have guns, but do not have a discussion about where you specifically keep them. Just do your part and when you are not home, make sure they are locked up and close the door to your room. You might even get a lock for your door.

Really, if you are worried about the guns, then lock up the knives and the heavy blunt objects while you are at it. Of course, you can also stay away from the heated discussions also. Most of the time they are not worth the time or energy.
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Old 12-11-2017, 8:57 PM
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Did/do any of your current or former roommates carry a knife? Did they at any time during a heated discussion pull said knife on the person they were having a heated discussion with? Have you ever known anyone who pulled any weapon on any other roommate (baseball bat, sword, shotgun, etc)? You do mention a choking incident, did anyone die or end up in the hospital?
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Old 12-12-2017, 3:27 AM
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If I read your post correctly your not the property owner, are you then an on-site manager, or just a guy renting a house or condo? If your subletting all this conversation is moot! The actual property owner sets the lease and policies, by subletting you don't have any decisions regarding policies.
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Old 12-12-2017, 4:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Dukenukem117 View Post
My roommate and I were having the eternal debate of what type of gun is best for home defense, and it got me wondering if it would be legal to place certain restrictions in a roommate agreement for new roommates if he were to move out?

I'm personally fine with rifles and I have rifles, but I don't like the idea of living with someone carrying a pistol on them at all time unless they are law enforcement or ex-military.

This is all hypothetical of course, and the odds of me running into an actual situation is low since the rate of gun ownership here is low, and CCW is even lower.
Is that you Gavin?
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Old 12-12-2017, 2:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dukenukem117 View Post
My roommate and I were having the eternal debate of what type of gun is best for home defense, and it got me wondering if it would be legal to place certain restrictions in a roommate agreement for new roommates if he were to move out?

I'm personally fine with rifles and I have rifles, but I don't like the idea of living with someone carrying a pistol on them at all time unless they are law enforcement or ex-military.

This is all hypothetical of course, and the odds of me running into an actual situation is low since the rate of gun ownership here is low, and CCW is even lower.
What does having a CCW have to do with carrying within one's residence? How is anybody going to enforce such an agreement? I suppose you can evict them but would you?
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