Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > How CA Laws Apply to/Affect Me
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 12-08-2017, 1:32 AM
squeeze squeeze is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 294
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I have seen a Canadian goose put a full grown dog into retreat mode. But, if you really want a guard animal; get a Guinea Fowl or two.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-08-2017, 8:52 AM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 42,124
iTrader: 127 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by squeeze View Post
I have seen a Canadian goose put a full grown dog into retreat mode. But, if you really want a guard animal; get a Guinea Fowl or two.
I had Guineas for many years and they were more allusive than aggressive. Maybe different ones have different personalities??? They sure can be good alarm systems though.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
Ventura County approved CCW Instructor


Offering low cost private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:50 AM
Scratch705's Avatar
Scratch705 Scratch705 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 9,934
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

is B&E a felony?

if so, when performing a citizen's arrest, the citizen can use up to lethal force to detain the suspect. (from what i can remember)

http://www.supremelaw.org/cc/aol2/roddy/pc.837.htm (although this page doesn't detail what kind of force can be used, but states a private citizen can do what is needed to make the arrest including breaking into a house the suspect is in for a felony.)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by leelaw View Post
Because -ohmigosh- they can add their opinions, too?
Proof we can all comment on whatever we want if it's at all related to the topic at hand!
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-08-2017, 12:21 PM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 5,084
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
is B&E a felony?

if so, when performing a citizen's arrest, the citizen can use up to lethal force to detain the suspect. (from what i can remember)

http://www.supremelaw.org/cc/aol2/roddy/pc.837.htm (although this page doesn't detail what kind of force can be used, but states a private citizen can do what is needed to make the arrest including breaking into a house the suspect is in for a felony.)
California does not have a crime of "Breaking and Entering." The closest thing in California law is the crime of "Burglary." Burglary differs from the common law crime of Breaking and Entering in that no force is required to commit the crime.

California statutory law is kinda unusual with regard to the use of force in making an arrest. Peace officers are specifically authorized to use reasonable force to accomplish an arrest. The law allows private persons, in some cases, to use force to enter a location where an arrestee is, but not authorize the use of force against the person of the arrestee.

There is case law permitting a private person to use reasonable force in the making of an arrest. There is no source of law authorizing lethal force simply on the basis of the crime allegedly committed. For a specific repudiation of such an authority please see the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Tennessee v Garner.
__________________
What is really needed here is less "Tactical" thinking and more "Strategic" thinking.

Last edited by RickD427; 12-08-2017 at 12:36 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-08-2017, 12:40 PM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 42,124
iTrader: 127 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
is B&E a felony?

if so, when performing a citizen's arrest, the citizen can use up to lethal force to detain the suspect. (from what i can remember)

http://www.supremelaw.org/cc/aol2/roddy/pc.837.htm (although this page doesn't detail what kind of force can be used, but states a private citizen can do what is needed to make the arrest including breaking into a house the suspect is in for a felony.)
You can only use lethal force to apprehend people guilty of violent felonies. In UT, burglary is considered a violent and life threatening felony but, in CA it isn't.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
Ventura County approved CCW Instructor


Offering low cost private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 12-08-2017, 12:53 PM
cvigue cvigue is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,542
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
You can only use lethal force to apprehend people guilty of violent felonies. In UT, burglary is considered a violent and life threatening felony but, in CA it isn't.
At what point does a burglary become a home invasion? I can respect not shooting someone who is there for your stuff and doesn't know anyone is home or whatever, but if they come in knowing people are home, is that not a different thing?

Seems it should be.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12-08-2017, 1:50 PM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,560
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
California does not have a crime of "Breaking and Entering." The closest thing in California law is the crime of "Burglary." Burglary differs from the common law crime of Breaking and Entering in that no force is required to commit the crime.

California statutory law is kinda unusual with regard to the use of force in making an arrest. Peace officers are specifically authorized to use reasonable force to accomplish an arrest. The law allows private persons, in some cases, to use force to enter a location where an arrestee is, but not authorize the use of force against the person of the arrestee.

There is case law permitting a private person to use reasonable force in the making of an arrest. There is no source of law authorizing lethal force simply on the basis of the crime allegedly committed. For a specific repudiation of such an authority please see the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Tennessee v Garner.
To be clear, Tenn v Garner authirizes an officer to use deadly force if but not, as you say, simply on the basis of the crime committed, but if ithe officer is threatened OR there is probable cause that a crime involving the infliction or threat of serious physical harm has been committed.

Quote:
(I)f the suspect threatens the officer with a weapon or there is probable cause to believe that he has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm, deadly force may be used if necessary to prevent escape, and if, where feasible, some warning has been given.
My quick read of the decision is that what the court is saying is even if a statute in not unconstitutional if it authorizes the police to use deadly force if a particular crime is committed, unthreatened officer may not resort to deadly force unless they have PC to believe such force was applied.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12-08-2017, 1:59 PM
Doheny's Avatar
Doheny Doheny is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,384
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Guard geese work better because, not many lowlifes know anything about geese and it throws them a new curve that they can't easily process.
Washing down goose poop will make you wish you had a dog.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12-08-2017, 2:37 PM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 42,124
iTrader: 127 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvigue View Post
At what point does a burglary become a home invasion? I can respect not shooting someone who is there for your stuff and doesn't know anyone is home or whatever, but if they come in knowing people are home, is that not a different thing?

Seems it should be.
Not all burglaries happen when the home is occupied. So, many times a burglary can not turn into a home invasion. An occupied home is a different matter, then PC 198.5 may come into play. Of course, regular self defense laws may come into play to. It will come down to the individual scenario and, in the end, what a jury ends up deciding.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
Ventura County approved CCW Instructor


Offering low cost private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 12-08-2017, 2:41 PM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 42,124
iTrader: 127 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
Washing down goose poop will make you wish you had a dog.
We've got geese and 9 dogs. I don't wash down any poop. It magically disappears in the brush.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
Ventura County approved CCW Instructor


Offering low cost private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 12-08-2017, 3:05 PM
P5Ret P5Ret is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SF Ebay
Posts: 3,737
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvigue View Post
At what point does a burglary become a home invasion? I can respect not shooting someone who is there for your stuff and doesn't know anyone is home or whatever, but if they come in knowing people are home, is that not a different thing?

Seems it should be.
Home invasions are classified as a robbery, requiring force or fear to be used. The use of force would have to be against a person since robbery is a crime against a person not a property crime, as burglary is.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 12-08-2017, 3:17 PM
cvigue cvigue is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,542
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Not all burglaries happen when the home is occupied. So, many times a burglary can not turn into a home invasion. An occupied home is a different matter, then PC 198.5 may come into play. Of course, regular self defense laws may come into play to. It will come down to the individual scenario and, in the end, what a jury ends up deciding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
Home invasions are classified as a robbery, requiring force or fear to be used. The use of force would have to be against a person since robbery is a crime against a person not a property crime, as burglary is.
That's my question; is a burglary with people home a home invasion or not? Does it really revolve around something as nebulous as "I was afraid", because no sh*t, any normal person would be instantly afraid in that situation. Shouldn't even be a discussion IMO.

Having said that, nothing I own is worth killing someone over, that's just my life choice. The only thing I'm conflicted about on that stance are thieves who are or might take weapons that they might then cause further harm with. I wouldn't want to be in that situation, it's a hard call.

On the other hand if there's any reasonable chance they are endangering me or my family, the gloves come off immediately; I cannot tolerate that risk.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 12-08-2017, 6:28 PM
P5Ret P5Ret is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SF Ebay
Posts: 3,737
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvigue View Post
That's my question; is a burglary with people home a home invasion or not? Does it really revolve around something as nebulous as "I was afraid", because no sh*t, any normal person would be instantly afraid in that situation. Shouldn't even be a discussion IMO.
Not necessarily. For example someone removes property from a garage while the home owner is in the house, and never knew that someone was in the garage.

Just saying I was afraid may not cut it either. Someone walks in on a burglary, burglar bolts out the back. I think we can all agree could be a fearful situation. Does it change the burglary to a home invasion robbery? Probably not. Burglar uses force or threatens force to escape and we get a whole new ball game.

And yeah I'm with you none of the things I own are worth shooting someone for.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 12-09-2017, 8:43 AM
Jimi Jah's Avatar
Jimi Jah Jimi Jah is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North San Diego County
Posts: 11,436
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

California civil law makes any retaliation risky here.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 12-09-2017, 8:59 AM
cusco19's Avatar
cusco19 cusco19 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: bay area
Posts: 1,090
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
California civil law makes any retaliation risky here.
yup i think so too.

what i can't seem to understand is as a home owner (correct and educate me if i'm wrong)... i never invited the perp to break into my house, never wanted him or her to be in my house in the first place, so if i or my family, kids, felt threatened, we can't fight back without first calling 911, then on a recorded line, giving the perp a warning to get F out and warning we have firearm to defend ourselves as needed, then if SHTF we can then shoot only to stop them... and if they get injured due to breaking into my house, they can come back and sue me later.. is that correct?
__________________
CZ SP01, CZ P-01 NATO, Springfield 1911-A1 Target Loaded 9mm Stainless, Ruger MKIII Hunter 6 7/8" SS Fluted, CZ455 Varmint Heavy Barreled, Remington 700 SPS Tactical .223

DIY: 1911 idiot scratch fix
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 12-09-2017, 10:08 AM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,560
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I do not understand your question to be about what you must do to avoid criminal liability. I believe you are asking if you can be sued even if you do everything possible to avoid resorting to force. Yes, they can always sue. The trick is finding an attorney to take the case and that usually means selling it to a contingency attorney. Contingency attorneys generally won't touch a case unless there is a good balance of three factors. The certainty of winning, the certainty of collecting if you win, and the costs and difficulty of handling the case. There are rare exceptions, such as when the case is a loss leader for the attorney. They know it isn't worth taking and expect to lose or recover little, but they take the case because it's good PR and may generate more clients. Hence they sue a unpopular defendant (say a police department) realizing that they can't win. The lose but win big, especially if there is a collateral advantage to be gained by the law firm, in addition to clients, such as if someone had political ambitions.

Last edited by Chewy65; 12-09-2017 at 10:35 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 12-09-2017, 2:06 PM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 42,124
iTrader: 127 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cusco19 View Post
yup i think so too.

what i can't seem to understand is as a home owner (correct and educate me if i'm wrong)... i never invited the perp to break into my house, never wanted him or her to be in my house in the first place, so if i or my family, kids, felt threatened, we can't fight back without first calling 911, then on a recorded line, giving the perp a warning to get F out and warning we have firearm to defend ourselves as needed, then if SHTF we can then shoot only to stop them... and if they get injured due to breaking into my house, they can come back and sue me later.. is that correct?
You can be sued for almost ANYTHING. However, that doesn't mean you'll loose the suit. It will cost you time and effort at the very least though.
__________________
NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor
California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller
Ventura County approved CCW Instructor


Offering low cost private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners.

CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 12-09-2017, 4:43 PM
cvigue cvigue is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,542
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
Not necessarily. For example someone removes property from a garage while the home owner is in the house, and never knew that someone was in the garage.
If I hear something out there and open the door, it then becomes a robbery unless they immediately flee with their hands full? This coddling of criminals is goofy. I'm not in favor of just shooting people up but it's sad that it's actually criminal to defend property with force. It's a matter of morality vs legality.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 12-09-2017, 4:59 PM
DolphinFan DolphinFan is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 399
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Letís see, someone breaks into a home. Homeowner is in fear for their life. They shoot the invader and he dies before police arrive.
Two shots to the chest.
I canít see the homeowner guilty of any crime. Yet there is evidence of an armed or unarmed intruder. You shot because the intruder continued toward you after being confronted. The homeowner was in fear for their safety and life.
The only crime I see is trespassing, Burgulary, and attempted assault by the intruder he approaches the homeowner instead of fleeing.
Intruder Guilty of breaking the law. Homeowner guilty of exercising his California Inalienable Rights in Article 1 Section 1 of the California constitution.
Confronting anyone outside the Home may be unlawful depending on circumstances.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 12-09-2017, 5:48 PM
cusco19's Avatar
cusco19 cusco19 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: bay area
Posts: 1,090
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DolphinFan View Post
Two shots to the chest.
wouldn't and couldn't they say you could've stopped at 1 shot, since once they stop, you shouldn't continue to shoot again as that's murder?

overall i think the law is weird; but could be i don't know or haven't learned enough about it yet... but imo, it's weird as in too many gray areas. seems even if you follow protocol down to the dotted I and cross the T.. it may still be a toss up in court to prove your actions defending your home; which no one asked the perp to enter in the first place.
__________________
CZ SP01, CZ P-01 NATO, Springfield 1911-A1 Target Loaded 9mm Stainless, Ruger MKIII Hunter 6 7/8" SS Fluted, CZ455 Varmint Heavy Barreled, Remington 700 SPS Tactical .223

DIY: 1911 idiot scratch fix
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 12-09-2017, 6:07 PM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,560
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cusco19 View Post
wouldn't and couldn't they say you could've stopped at 1 shot, since once they stop, you shouldn't continue to shoot again as that's murder?

overall i think the law is weird; but could be i don't know or haven't learned enough about it yet... but imo, it's weird as in too many gray areas. seems even if you follow protocol down to the dotted I and cross the T.. it may still be a toss up in court to prove your actions defending your home; which no one asked the perp to enter in the first place.
You assume that they stop with one shot. At least one CCW qualification instructor teaches 2 shots to center mass. I believe that some teach one to the body and one to the head. All teach that you fire until the threat ceases. If the threat is almost on top of you there may not be time to verify that the threat is stopped. If the threat is down and not reaching, that is one thing. If he is moving and may be reaching for a weapon that is another. It all boils down to the individual facts. You are absolutely correct that if mean that if you follow all the rules things may come down to a question for a jury.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 12-11-2017, 9:10 AM
Jimi Jah's Avatar
Jimi Jah Jimi Jah is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North San Diego County
Posts: 11,436
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
You can be sued for almost ANYTHING. However, that doesn't mean you'll loose the suit. It will cost you time and effort at the very least though.
Even if you win, you loose. The USA doesn't have "looser pays" civil protections like in the EU.

When you spend your life savings defending yourself getting a civil case dismissed, you won't feel like you won anything but the poor house.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 12-11-2017, 10:51 AM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Even if you win, you loose. The USA doesn't have "looser pays" civil protections like in the EU.

When you spend your life savings defending yourself getting a civil case dismissed, you won't feel like you won anything but the poor house.
What is the point of the input? The fundamental issue here is self-defense. You believe that you are going to be killed, so you shoot.

If you worry about possible lawsuits, you may delay the shot or miss...then you're dead.

Ah, got it, no Poor House to worry about.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 12-11-2017, 2:27 PM
Chewy65 Chewy65 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,560
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

In practicality it makes little difference who pays , by which I mean if the losing party has to pay attorney fees of the winner) attorney fees (costs of court are awarded in certain circumstances to the winner but the greatest part of litigant costs are the attorney fees). There are always exceptions, but in most cases plaintiffs are judgment proof in cases brought by the person you shoot or their survivors. The exceptions most often being when the shootings are bad and the families of victims of the opioid epidemic. Some of them come from good families.

Last edited by Chewy65; 12-12-2017 at 2:45 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 12-11-2017, 3:58 PM
Anonreg_89323423's Avatar
Anonreg_89323423 Anonreg_89323423 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southern California
Posts: 112
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

This is a wonderful discussion that I always hoped I would be able to read on here. There's one contradiction that puts home invasion/burglary into a life-threatening situation under most circumstances: They would need tools to break in, be it a crowbar, knife, etc. Those same tools can be used to kill somebody, which leads to reasonable assumption that your life is in danger. If I stick my gun in their direction from 20' and yell drop the crowbar/knife/screwdriver and they don't do it, they are destined for a different world because they are brandishing a weapon and walking towards me.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 12-12-2017, 9:18 AM
dpr dpr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nor Cal Foothills
Posts: 355
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
No, have you ever experienced a gaggle of guard geese? They can be very aggressive, noisy and scary.
And tasty too, lol
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 12-12-2017, 9:39 AM
RickD427's Avatar
RickD427 RickD427 is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: King County
Posts: 5,084
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonreg_89323423 View Post
This is a wonderful discussion that I always hoped I would be able to read on here. There's one contradiction that puts home invasion/burglary into a life-threatening situation under most circumstances: They would need tools to break in, be it a crowbar, knife, etc. Those same tools can be used to kill somebody, which leads to reasonable assumption that your life is in danger. If I stick my gun in their direction from 20' and yell drop the crowbar/knife/screwdriver and they don't do it, they are destined for a different world because they are brandishing a weapon and walking towards me.
You don't need tools to break into a home.

You don't need tools to kill someone.

They key to having a lawful use of deadly force is that you be in reasonable fear for your life. That's the issue and it's one that is best addressed directly and not through the proxy of what resource was available to the suspect.

If one is in reasonable fear for their life, the loss of their assets in subsequent litigation is a non-issue. What good is a big bank account when you're deceased?

You should plan on being sued following a defensive shooting, particularly if you have assets. You really can't stop a lawsuit from being filed. There is no "quality control" on the filing of lawsuits. The best that you can do is to configure your affairs so that you have the best ability to have the suit dismissed early in the pleadings, or to prevail on the merits.
__________________
What is really needed here is less "Tactical" thinking and more "Strategic" thinking.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 12-12-2017, 10:10 AM
Alan Block Alan Block is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,794
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

The whole Geese thing comes from Ancient Rome. The Gauls tried to attack at night by sneaking up Capitoline Hill. Neither the Roman guards or dogs heard them but the geese at the temple of Juno honked out the alarm and the Gauls were driven back.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 12-13-2017, 11:10 PM
NikNak NikNak is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 18
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvigue View Post
The problem solver:

Does this mean to get a cat? We have three and I think the afore mentioned goose would be much more affective.

Swans are also nasty & territorial.
__________________
1st Generation Dutch Immigrant by parents liberated in WWII. Thanks to all USGIs. I'm sure you weren't actually there, but in a way, you were. 33+ & growing of my family would not exist today. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 12-14-2017, 9:51 AM
Notpc's Avatar
Notpc Notpc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Out In The Desert(Behind Enemy Lines)
Posts: 183
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

No, he meant that the proper use of hydraulics and a bag of lime has made many problems magically "disappear".

__________________
GUNS CAUSE CRIME, LIKE FLIES CAUSE GARBAGE!<img src=images/smilies/oji.gif border=0 alt= title=Oji class=inlineimg />

Last edited by Notpc; 12-14-2017 at 9:57 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 12-14-2017, 10:05 AM
Ron Swanson's Avatar
Ron Swanson Ron Swanson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Pawnee, IN
Posts: 326
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

The flaw in the OP's original post is he wants to detain the suspect while "(blocking his exit point), so that he can't run away." At that point he's not a threat to your your safety and lethal force wouldn't be justifiable. Yes he trespassed but he is also leaving and you can't stop him from doing so. You would become the instigator by trying to detain him with a weapon.
__________________

Itís never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet
that suckles on a taxpayerís teet until they have sore, chapped nipples.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 12-14-2017, 11:46 AM
Notpc's Avatar
Notpc Notpc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Out In The Desert(Behind Enemy Lines)
Posts: 183
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Didn't we just have a thread about a 70 years old gentleman hold someone that was "attempting to break into his house" at gun point until law enforcement arrived? Can't find it using search, but can't remember thread title. Looks like thing went well for him?

Found it:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...=holds+suspect

Quote:
Advisory: Suspected burglary gets caught by homeowner while attempting to break in home in Jurupa Valley.
A 63-year-old victim called to report that her 70-year-old husband went outside to check on their residence after hearing what they believed to be someone breaking into their home in Jurupa Valley. The 70-year-old husband armed himself with his legally owned firearm and went outside to investigate. He found a suspect who was armed with a crowbar, trying to break inside their home. The 70-year-old victim held the burglar at gunpoint until deputies arrived. Deputies arrived within four minutes and arrested 34-year-old Jose Rodriguez of San Bernardino, for burglary, possession of burglary tools, and an outstanding arrest warrant. Rodriguez was booked at the Robert Presley Detention Center.
__________________
GUNS CAUSE CRIME, LIKE FLIES CAUSE GARBAGE!<img src=images/smilies/oji.gif border=0 alt= title=Oji class=inlineimg />

Last edited by Notpc; 12-14-2017 at 11:53 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:04 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.