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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #41  
Old 01-04-2018, 7:22 AM
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My Mini 14 shoots fine, with a Burris FF3, forward mounted on an Ultimak rail, and me with 65 year old, trifocal eyes.

If not for the internet, I'd have no idea how bad my Mini 14 is. lol

I actually like Chuck D's schtick. Say it aint' so, bro!
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  #42  
Old 01-04-2018, 7:55 AM
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Meh, I'd rather have a keltec SU16 than a mini14, neither of which are durable enough to be a battlerifle like the AR15/M16. They are good for taking a couple of shots to scare off a coyote and thats about it.
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  #43  
Old 01-04-2018, 8:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Nguyen View Post
When i see people complain about accuracy.. I picture this is how they shoot every time they go shooting:

They only get up to change the target and to go to the restroom.
Hahahaha!

I'd have NEVER taken to shooting like I have if that's all we did at the range (same with just shooting at a bullseye paper.)

On second thought..... maybe that woulda been better... as in cheaper! wouldn't have bought so many guns!

We took my mini-14 out this past weekend and I had fun shooting at various steel at different distances. I don't know anything about accuracy (as in placing all the shots within an inch of each other.) but for my first time shooting it (other than sighting it in).... it was fun and I did pretty good!

I just wish the barrel was threaded so I could put a comp on it.... not that it needs it... but because I WANT it cuz it would look cool!
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  #44  
Old 01-04-2018, 8:25 AM
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Originally Posted by AGFNTB View Post
Sorry, it's just not a legitimate CG Mini-14 thread without Chuck posting in it.
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  #45  
Old 01-04-2018, 10:53 AM
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Come on, I think he has posted in ALL the Mini-14 threads. It just doesn't seem proper without him. And this coming from a Mini-14 owner.

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  #46  
Old 01-04-2018, 5:09 PM
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Well OP, you really got to shoot at 100+ to k ow how well the gun shoots. In theory it's suppose to be 1.5. That's what I originally thought when I had my mini. Shot at the 25 yard with great accuracy... went to 100y and OMG!! I thought I was making 1 hole groups!!! Found out it missed the entire paper and even missed the frame as well. This was from an older mini though. Sure hope the new ones are better.
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  #47  
Old 01-04-2018, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mif_slim View Post
Well OP, you really got to shoot at 100+ to k ow how well the gun shoots. In theory it's suppose to be 1.5. That's what I originally thought when I had my mini. Shot at the 25 yard with great accuracy... went to 100y and OMG!! I thought I was making 1 hole groups!!! Found out it missed the entire paper and even missed the frame as well. This was from an older mini though. Sure hope the new ones are better.
+1 100 yard groups.

I don't think 25 yard results tell us much. My newer Mini-14, before I sent it to ASI, was shooting around 4" groups at 100 yards using Wolf Gold 223 with a scope. I probably should've just kept it as is or sold it instead of turning it into a franken-Mini.

I'm able to hit steel at 50 yards shooting offhand with steel targets with my Vepr Pioneer 7.62x39. I can hit steel shooting from a bench at 100 yards. It's not great, it's good enough and it is what it is.
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  #48  
Old 01-05-2018, 12:59 AM
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Anyone who has a mini needs the old wood handguard. It just looks.. right.

I had one on the series 180 I used to own- but I would shoot it with the fiberglass ugly one. I didn't want to dent my wood one

-Dave
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  #49  
Old 01-05-2018, 6:31 AM
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Just got my matching wood handguard in the mail from Accuracy Systems... I agree.
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  #50  
Old 01-05-2018, 7:54 AM
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Originally Posted by imarangemaster View Post
Today at the local indoor 25/50 yard rifle range it is 1/2 price day for LE and Retired LE, so I decided to wander over there with both Mini-14s and see what they have. I started with a 25 yards "Battle sight'" and a little 50 yard rapid fire. 100 and more will wait until I get to an outdoor range.

According to the Handloads.com ballistic calculator. For a 250 yard zero, the MK 262 MOD1 77 grain SMKs POI is .75" above POA at 25 yards. and the M193 55 grainers and M855 62 grainers POI should be about .5" above POA. My last (582 series) Mini, the 62s shot closer to the same POA as the 77s, so I will use those to dial them in, then fine tune for the 77s. That 250 yard site in gives a maximum of about 4" above line of sight at 150, and about 4" low at 300 yards. That is good enough for minute of troll and goblin!

Here are the culprits:


First, the caveats: One it is an indoor range, with hideous lighting on the 50 yard side. There is a light behind the shooter positions that glares badly on the sights, especially the rear. Second, it only has sleds, no sandbags for proper shooting holding the weapon.

First I shot the old 196 stainless with the Jon Masen post and wing front sight/ brake combo.

It LOVED Federal/Lake City M855 62 grainers. Four shots in in just over 3/8" at 25 yards. That is about 1.5 MOA with the stainless pencil barrel and no strut.



Then I shot some M193, but it was mediocre, at 1" or so (4 MOA). Finally I shot some IMI brand MK262 MOD1 with the 77 grain OTM SMK bullet. It did just over .5" at 25 yards or 2 MOA or less.



I really think the Masen set up made the 196 shine, because it is a great front sight, and the 8 ozs acts as a dampener and heat sink on the pencil barrel.

Then I shot the 532. I used a different target to get a better sight picture, since the 583's front sight is wider than the Masen sight.

The 583 HATED M855! It was all over the place, to the point I gave up on it and switched to M193 55 grainers. It gave me about 3 MOA, though a big part of the problem was the glare on the 583 rear sight. The 196 rear is a flat plane with a hole in it, so the glare wasn't too bad. The rear ghost aperture of the 583 had terrible glare, making a halo of glare.



Next I tried the MK262 MOD1 77 grainers. This time I held the weapon in one hand, ballance the forearm on the sled, and shielded the rear sight with the other. I was rewarded with a 4 shot, .4" group (about 1.5 MOA)



I did some 50 yard shooting, semi rapid fire (2 to 3 shots a second) , from a leaning rest. A 20 shot group was 3" or so, so good enough, and as good as I would do with one of my ARs, rapid fire, with iron sights.

Conclusion: When shooting the 196, M855s rule, though MK262 MOD1 is a close second. With the 583, which is my home/ranch defensive carbine, the MK262 MOD1 is dead nuts on, and my go to home defense combo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckDizzle View Post
I simply don't believe that accuracy claim.
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Originally Posted by ChuckDizzle View Post
TMB,

A Mini 14 with 18.5" barrel tips the scales at 7 lbs unloaded. By contrast an M16a2 with 20" barrel weighs in a 6.37 lbs. A Mini is about 10% heavier for less rifle and that's not even considering the many lightweight options out there in 5.56 auto loading rifles.

As far as working on it goes, let's see how long it takes you to change out a broken firing pin or extractor...
.
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  #51  
Old 01-05-2018, 7:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ChuckDizzle View Post
No frills, no BS, rifle. It's not accurate enough to be a ranch rifle, which is what it markets itself as. It's a terrible SHTF rifle, inaccurate, unreliable, impossible to work on, hard to find parts, heavy.

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  #52  
Old 01-05-2018, 9:00 AM
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^ Dizzle's banned ghost makes yet another Mini thread appearance!
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  #53  
Old 01-05-2018, 8:06 PM
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OK, now that the ghost of CD appeared in the thread I'll give it a 90% legitimate rating.
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  #54  
Old 01-05-2018, 9:38 PM
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Three shoot groups at 25 yards...
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  #55  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:03 PM
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This is w/ the Tech-sights rear aperture sight.





The biggest problem is the thickness of the OEM front sight. It subtends more than a landscaped 8.5" X 11" paper at 100 yards. So bigger targets allow more precise groups.

This is a 4" aiming black. Horizontal control was problematic.





GR
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  #56  
Old 01-06-2018, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by lightcav View Post
Meh, I'd rather have a keltec SU16 than a mini14, neither of which are durable enough to be a battlerifle like the AR15/M16. They are good for taking a couple of shots to scare off a coyote and thats about it.
I've never owned a Keltec anything, so I can't comment on the comparison, although I know what I think about it.

However, I respectfully disagree with your view that a Mini-14 is not durable enough to be a "battlefield" rifle. The Mini-14 is piston operated and is a scaled down, robust M1A action. It is plenty tough and durable; no doubt in my mind about that. If I had to bug out, I would either grab my (9mm) Beretta Cx-4 or my stainless/composite (5.56/.223) Mini-14, and the Mini-14 would probably be the one going with me. I'm not headed to any "battlefield", unless it becomes an Iran/Venezuela/Somalia-type breakdown of law and order in the urban U.S. We're already almost there in some big cities in the U.S.

According to various accounts I've read, which I am too lazy to link here, AR-15s can get a little fussy when they get dirty from internal workings, but if AR-15s are anyone's preference, I'm not knocking that choice.
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  #57  
Old 01-06-2018, 12:44 PM
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Really the Mini 14 is a far more robust Battle Rifle than any AR. The thing that defines this is not one hole accuracy,,, it is how good a club the gun becomes when you run out of ammo.

The Mini 14 is a far better Club than any AR!

Randy
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  #58  
Old 01-06-2018, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
Really the Mini 14 is a far more robust Battle Rifle than any AR. The thing that defines this is not one hole accuracy,,, it is how good a club the gun becomes when you run out of ammo.

The Mini 14 is a far better Club than any AR!

Randy
And, it reliably shoots vital zone groups all day long in the hands of an average shooter; good enough to stop the bad guy.
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  #59  
Old 01-10-2018, 6:55 PM
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The Mini-14 is a DMR/Sniper rifle, who knew?

This is from the game Players Unknown Battleground

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  #60  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:51 AM
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It’s been well documented with the Mini 14 rifles that cold barrel vs hot barrel has an impact on point of impact and the tightness of groups, especially with the older models. And from all of the web sites I have been to, a small industry of accurizing the Mini rifles owes its existence to Ruger if one wants to spend money on obtaining tighter groups or just address point of impact wandering issues as the barrel heats up.

I recently came across this website listing Mini 14 and Mini 30 barrel twist rates by series. I don’t know how accurate the information is:

http://sunflowerammo.blogspot.com/20...ist-rates.html

It seems due to the physics involved with barrel twist rate and the weight of bullets that some Mini-14s with a 1 and 7 barrel twist rate like my 185 series Mini 14 would favor heavier bullets (62 grain and up) because they spin faster coming out of the barrel which provides more stability.

I also read from the information at the above site that the newer 580 models and up have a 1 and 9 barrel twist rate, and therefore one may reach a conclusion that lighter grain bullets like the 55 grain may fly better from the rifle with the slower spin rate produce by the 1 and 9 barrel, but heavier bullets may have less than optimal performance.

All scientific data and theories aside, the only way to find out our individual rifle’s performance is to load them up and pull the trigger. However, after reading numerous blogs about people shooting their Mini rifles, the one thing I think it is safe to say is that no matter what generalizations one may make about the Mini 14 and Mini 30 rifles regarding MOA and accuracy, there always seem to be the individual pointing out the exception with his or her rifle. So we may add in the factors of the shooter and shooting conditions into the equation as well as load; but you can say that for any rifle, not just the Ruger Mini rifles.

This Chuck Dizzle thing was before my time as a member of the Calguns forum. I am not a hater of the Mini 14 or Mini 30 ( I own both as well as ARs and AKs)...just trying to get some real information about them and pick it up where I can, that explains and compares my own shooting experiences with these rifles.

That said, any discussion about the personal shooting performance of these rifles is still a good one on this forum without getting into any arguments about accuracy claims and comparisons with other rifles. That's just my opinion on Mini 14 posts.

Last edited by loademup; 01-11-2018 at 11:01 AM..
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  #61  
Old 01-11-2018, 11:26 AM
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I have found that with the 580+ series, Ruger corrected many of the faults with their new, heavier tapered barrel and improved sights. My 582 I had and the 583 I have are sub 2-3 MOA depending on ammo. Contraty to popular internet wisdom, the 1/9 twist of the new minis shoots 75 and 77 grain loads quite well. Bullet twist rate is a function of both bullet weight AND bullet length. The stubby Winchester 62 grain Power Point shoots great from the 1/12 twist because it is shorter with a different center of gravity than the longer M855 62 grain bullet. Sierra Match King 77 grainers used in the MK262 MOD1 has a void in the tip of its OTM bullet, shifting the center of gravity to the rear, mimicking a shorter, lighter bullet. It gives 1.5 MOA from my 583, despite the 1/9 twist. I am not alone in this observation, as many Mini-14 owners find the 75-77 grain most accurate in their later Minis.

The current Mini-14s are an example Product Improvement of the original Min-14.

Last edited by imarangemaster; 01-11-2018 at 11:31 AM..
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  #62  
Old 01-11-2018, 11:28 AM
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It is funny. AR15s are EVERYWHERE! Ruger even jumped on the bandwagon, but I am guessing the Mini-14/30 sells more than their AR15s. They have expanded their MIni-14/30 line with a wide variety of versions (standard, tactical, target, blue, stainless, wood stock, poly stock, barrel 16" or 18") and calibers: (5.56, 7.62x39, 6.8 SPC. 300BLK).

Since Bill Ruger passed, the company has been listening to what shooters want. They redesigned the Mini-14/30. They reworked the barrel where it is thicker and does not string when it heats. They combined Ranch and standard, where it uses Ranch style rings, has an excellet Picatinny rail that can be added which is included, and an adjustable protected Ghost ring rear sight on all models. They improved the mile high front sight with am M1/M14 style post and wing. They even have a new 9mm carbine that uses either their mags or Glock mags!

Ruger will have a resurgence.

On another note, I have a Tasco red/Green dot scope coming. I already have a Bushnell TRS-32 AR scope, but it sits too high. I ordered a Tasco 20mm ProPoint low profile tube sight that mounts low on the Picatinny rail. It is low enough that it doesn't need a cheek riser. I first saw these in the midwest where they are popular with shotgun slug hunters. They are designed to take the recoil of 3.5" magnum slugs.
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  #63  
Old 01-11-2018, 1:47 PM
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You seem quite knowledgeable about the Mini 14. Perhaps you would enjoy viewing on YouTube a discussion with one of the designers of the Mini 14 about the early days of development and Bill Ruger:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgzTjX1alpM
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  #64  
Old 01-11-2018, 1:59 PM
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Thanks! Watching it now.

Interesting. He left ArmaLite (where he was on of the primary engineers on Eugene Stoner's team) after Colt bought rights to the AR15. Bill Ruger brought him in to specifically design the Mini-14. He was the primary designer. Great pedigree.

Last edited by imarangemaster; 01-11-2018 at 2:25 PM..
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  #65  
Old 01-11-2018, 4:24 PM
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I do laugh at people who say the Mini-14 is no good as a fighting weapon because it won't do 1 MOA. USGI M16s and M4s are maybe two MOA on a good day, in my personal experience, and M1 carbines and AKMs are maybe 4 MOA weapons. USGI M1 Garand were generally 2-3 MOA, as were stock M14s. All are "minute of enemy combatant" and there are millions of souls that left this earth because of them - despite the fact they were not 1 MOA.

I think there are a lot of KEYBOARD COMMANDOS, whose limit of experience is what they read on the internet, or what the marketers of high dollar weaponry want them to believe.

I doubt if my AR could take the beating a (M1 based) Mini-14 could. Steel and wood are a lot tougher than aluminum and polymer. I'm not saying an AR15 is not a good battlefield weapon. It is, especially if you keep it maintained and cleaned. I like ARs. I own two and have been shooting the platform since 1974. I also like Mini-14s, and have been shooting them off and on since the mid-1980s.
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Old 01-11-2018, 4:30 PM
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I agree.
David took down Goliath with a 20 MOA sling. Nobody needs anything more accurate than that.
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  #67  
Old 01-12-2018, 7:24 PM
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I agree.
David took down Goliath with a 20 MOA sling. Nobody needs anything more accurate than that.


I have a couple different slings. I'm happy if the projectile heads off in the relative direction I intended! They are probably illegal in Ka.


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  #68  
Old 01-16-2018, 2:53 PM
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Started at 100 yards and went to 250.








And back to 100 yards.



Early model Ranch Rifle with pencil barrel, Accu Strut and Moreaper brake.


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Old 01-16-2018, 3:54 PM
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Great! I can't even see 250 yards! LOL Pretty good for an early pencil barrel. The strut really helps.
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Old 01-17-2018, 8:03 AM
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I just want Ruger to put $5 more in R&D for this rifle. I feel they just to care to improve it. It would really be a great rifle if they just TRIED!!!
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:02 AM
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I just want Ruger to put $5 more in R&D for this rifle. I feel they just to care to improve it. It would really be a great rifle if they just TRIED!!!
Where have you been? They shut down the whole production line, redesigned various bits of the rifle, went to tighter tolerances with CNC machines, etc etc, and we now have the 580 series. How would I know? I owned an older model, sold it, and own/shoot two of the newer models. Big difference. You're victim of a myth that won't die.
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:14 AM
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Mini 14 is a great rifle but it is not a battle rifle. Some AR15s are not battle rifles either.
It's good enough for San Bernardino Sherrifs and othe Leo depts it's good enough for us out here in Cali and other states....
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  #73  
Old 01-17-2018, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlevans66 View Post
I just want Ruger to put $5 more in R&D for this rifle. I feel they just to care to improve it. It would really be a great rifle if they just TRIED!!!
Ruger has spent a lot on reworking and improving the platform: Besides the new front sight, new ghost ring rear sight, heavier tapered barrel, reworked gas system, standard blue, standard stainless, tactical Blue, tactical stainless, more calibers (5.56, 300 BLK, 6,8 SPC, 7.62x39) target models, a factory supplied, receiver mounted Picatinny rail, just to name a few. My bone stock 583 series shoots 1.5 MOA with MK262 MOD1 77 grain ammo.
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Old 01-17-2018, 6:39 PM
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Originally Posted by imarangemaster View Post
My bone stock 583 series shoots 1.5 MOA with MK262 MOD1 77 grain ammo.
I'd like to see consistent 1.5" groups at 100 yards with a stock Mini-14. A lot of "precision" AR's have a hard time pulling that off consistently.
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Old 01-17-2018, 6:51 PM
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"US Marines that serve as guards at certain US embassies are sometimes issued Mini-14s. Delta Force has some Mini-14s in inventory"
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Old 01-17-2018, 9:26 PM
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The Royal Ulster Constabulary carried it for many years in the Troubles in NI. The RUC patrolled alongside regulars and seemed to feel the GB model gave good service.
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Old 01-17-2018, 9:29 PM
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Rhodesian Mercenaries with Mini-14s

Great article and picture from S.O.F. magazine with Rhodesian mercenaries (including Robert K Brown)with Mini-14s. I have seen other pictures of mercenaries in Africa with Mini-14s.

https://www.sofmag.com/a-british-mer...ight-part-one/

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