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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 11-11-2017, 3:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dwtt View Post
do they allow out of state residents to register guns? Because we might want to get in on the fun.
Technically no, but whatever address you input ito the form and whatever proof of residence you can give (if requested) is between you and the DOj
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  #42  
Old 11-11-2017, 5:59 PM
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I got below for 6 of my rifles I was trying to register, similar to one of the OP's rejections

Thank you for submitting your application. Based on the photos you provided, the make, model and/or serial number are not clearly visible. Please submit a photo of your model number as an additional image (submit using optional extra image). Refer to section 5474 (c) in the following regulations: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...let-button.pdf.
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  #43  
Old 11-11-2017, 7:50 PM
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All of my rejections came from using a Vol-Reg serial on the one and for using utility bills and car registration paperwork for joint registration that only had mine or the wife’s name on it. Finally used a letter from our mortgage company.

So far they haven’t rejected my pistol app again with the Vol-Reg serial after I explained that I was out of the country and will remain outside of it until after the registration period ends and listed the penal code that says that they have to accept it.
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  #44  
Old 11-11-2017, 8:08 PM
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Originally Posted by LoadedM333 View Post
I got below for 6 of my rifles I was trying to register, similar to one of the OP's rejections

Thank you for submitting your application. Based on the photos you provided, the make, model and/or serial number are not clearly visible. Please submit a photo of your model number as an additional image (submit using optional extra image). Refer to section 5474 (c) in the following regulations: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...let-button.pdf.
What did you use to take the pics? I would think any modern smartphone can take pics with more than enough detail.

I used my Google Pixel on default settings which takes like 12.3MP (~4000 x 3000 pixels) photos. I didnt resize them at all, so they are MASSIVE. If someone is viewing them on a computer screen, you can see extreme detail.

my Saiga and WASR serial numbers look they were scrawled on by a drunken Eastern European guy with a rusty awl. They are still very legible with such hi-res photos though.
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  #45  
Old 11-11-2017, 8:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bootstrap View Post
Wonder what the make/model listed when the gun was DROSd? This would show up in the DOJ-provided firearms ownership report.

They expect us to register guns with different manufacturer than DROS records?

Add yet another level of retard to CA.
Can't speak for the OP, but I have a VEPR 12 and it went through DRoS with a make of "Russia", model "VEPR 12".
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  #46  
Old 11-11-2017, 9:25 PM
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What did you use to take the pics? I would think any modern smartphone can take pics with more than enough detail.

I used my Google Pixel on default settings which takes like 12.3MP (~4000 x 3000 pixels) photos. I didnt resize them at all, so they are MASSIVE. If someone is viewing them on a computer screen, you can see extreme detail.

my Saiga and WASR serial numbers look they were scrawled on by a drunken Eastern European guy with a rusty awl. They are still very legible with such hi-res photos though.
I used my Iphone, the original pictures were fine from the phone. It was my fault when I resized them. I tried to make them small as possible. I resubmitted the better pictures four weeks ago and didn't get any rejections back since. I hope they went through.
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  #47  
Old 11-11-2017, 9:47 PM
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Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post
Sounds like a cluster f**k!

I know "old timers" that will probably never even attempt to register, because it is too much of a hassle!

This just proves it!!
Depending on whom you talk to there, DOJ estimates 8-10% compliance during the last registration...iirc, it ended January 31, 2001. I'd guess about the same percentage of gun owners during the upcoming reg period.
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  #48  
Old 11-12-2017, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by -hanko View Post
Depending on whom you talk to there, DOJ estimates 8-10% compliance during the last registration...iirc, it ended January 31, 2001. I'd guess about the same percentage of gun owners during the upcoming reg period.
The bigger over arching question is does the DOJ "want" us to register or are they making this damn near impossible to register....on purpose? Last time it was a very simple card, why the extreme difficulty now????????????????????????????
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  #49  
Old 11-12-2017, 12:48 PM
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The bigger over arching question is does the DOJ "want" us to register or are they making this damn near impossible to register....on purpose? Last time it was a very simple card, why the extreme difficulty now????????????????????????????
They don’t want you to register. They don’t like evil-featured rifles, registered or not. They think those features make our rifles “weapons of war.” They want you to voluntarily remove all the evil features for them. They want you to go featureless.
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  #50  
Old 11-12-2017, 2:46 PM
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Originally Posted by -hanko View Post
Depending on whom you talk to there, DOJ estimates 8-10% compliance during the last registration...iirc, it ended January 31, 2001. I'd guess about the same percentage of gun owners during the upcoming reg period.
Where does that percentage come from?

All the research I have done, primarily from their budget negotiations for the process, shows that they expected 1.5 million assault weapons to enter into the registry from 250,000 owners. That's where they got their $2.6 million they asked for.

The question is what percentage is that of AW that was sold from 2001-2016, and I estimate it's at least 50% and as high as 85%. It all comes down to the number you think that were sold, I think it's between 1.5 to 3 million.

2001 didn't have a reg period, only the tail end of the Lockyear period. Two periods were opened for 2000, the first the SB23 in Jan and then the Lockyear period for further "names" in November. No idea what the numbers were for those, but I always assumed it was at least half the 150,000 total in the registry, maybe more. That was way more than 10%, if you do the dross numbers from 1992-1999 (the first reg period was actually opened for 3 years from 89-92) then 75,000 was again more like at least 50%.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #51  
Old 11-12-2017, 2:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ford8N View Post
The bigger over arching question is does the DOJ "want" us to register or are they making this damn near impossible to register....on purpose? Last time it was a very simple card, why the extreme difficulty now????????????????????????????
They definitely do not want us to register. Nothing could be more obvious. Every single one of their actions over the last 1.5 years has telegraphed that.

It's a necessary evil to open a registry to avoid 6th amendment compensation liability. Ask any anti-gunner, it's something they refer to as "grandfathering".
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #52  
Old 11-13-2017, 4:43 AM
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Excellent thread. Thank you.
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  #53  
Old 11-13-2017, 4:50 AM
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I wonder how the "kickbacks 3 months later" is going to be handled by DOJ with people that register the day before the registration deadline.
With a writ of mandate under CCP 1094.5. That's how.
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  #54  
Old 11-13-2017, 1:43 PM
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I’m sorry but I’ve been busy with school and life. I heard that the registration date was delayed until this summer is this true?
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  #55  
Old 11-13-2017, 3:59 PM
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I’m sorry but I’ve been busy with school and life. I heard that the registration date was delayed until this summer is this true?
Extended to July 1st 2018. Looking at a 3 month processing time, so don't wait.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #56  
Old 11-15-2017, 9:50 AM
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So far, I have two:

1. can't read serial number, make, and model. Please provide clearer photo as optional extra photo

2. "Based on the photos provided, the caliber of your firearm is MULTI. Please correct your application to reflect MULTI as your caliber." - I selected "Firearm with interchangable barrels". There is no "multi" option.
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  #57  
Old 11-15-2017, 10:56 AM
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I guess I need to get some submissions in so they can be rejected too. Bastards.
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  #58  
Old 11-15-2017, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
They definitely do not want us to register. Nothing could be more obvious. Every single one of their actions over the last 1.5 years has telegraphed that.

It's a necessary evil to open a registry to avoid 6th amendment compensation liability. Ask any anti-gunner, it's something they refer to as "grandfathering".
I agree. And so far they've convinced what seems like more than half of bullet-button owners *not* to register and go featureless by making many think they *want* us to register.

Ironic.

I'm still wondering if convincing the majority not to register was a brilliant PR campaign on the part of the DOJ or something else... haha
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  #59  
Old 11-15-2017, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by somefred View Post
So far, I have two:

1. can't read serial number, make, and model. Please provide clearer photo as optional extra photo

2. "Based on the photos provided, the caliber of your firearm is MULTI. Please correct your application to reflect MULTI as your caliber." - I selected "Firearm with interchangable barrels". There is no "multi" option.
Oh jeez. It seems the people that have working there are getting worse. I had multiple guns marked "multi" but I selected the actual caliber of the gun with no issue.
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  #60  
Old 11-15-2017, 1:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
It's a necessary evil to open a registry to avoid 6th amendment compensation liability.
Come on.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

If you are going to play with the law, please read the instructions first.
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  #61  
Old 11-15-2017, 1:32 PM
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"2. "Based on the photos provided, the caliber of your firearm is MULTI. Please correct your application to reflect MULTI as your caliber." - I selected "Firearm with interchangable barrels". There is no "multi" option."

Iirc others have been using the "interchangeable barrels" option as the best available substitute for "multi". I believe they were accepted.

The fact that every submission is being held to a different standard and approved/rejected on what's clearly an arbitrary basis makes me think they actually want to get sued.

I mean, this couldn't be more poorly handled if they tried.
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  #62  
Old 11-15-2017, 1:53 PM
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Originally Posted by voit View Post
To hell with the DOJ, and their whole dictatorial process! Those photos will be with the government forever, no matter where you go. I'm still guessing only 10% will comply with this new registration nightmare...at least in all the shooting circles I interact with. An NO, we do not neuter our guns either!! Good luck to you who work so hard to be law abiding, with laws that are indefinitely unconstitutional!
When someone leaves California it doesn’t matter what California has on file or registered in your name. You become a resident of Oregon or Maine or whereever and you can FTF a sale or trade and no FFL is required. Done and done. New owner now lives in Florida and California registration means absolutely nothing.

Trust me when I say a solid 60% of law abiding Californians will not bother to register and will resort to shooting at Rock queries and not at public ranges. They will use discretion. Heck they do it now.
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  #63  
Old 11-15-2017, 2:10 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
Come on.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

If you are going to play with the law, please read the instructions first.
LOL. Touché.
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  #64  
Old 11-15-2017, 2:19 PM
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Use a metric tape mesure.
Nope, use a standard Engineer's tape that measures in feet and tenth's of feet.
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  #65  
Old 11-15-2017, 3:16 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
Come on.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

If you are going to play with the law, please read the instructions first.
Sorry, I meant fifth amendment. You know what I mean:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself; nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #66  
Old 11-15-2017, 4:56 PM
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UPDATE: MORE REJECTIONS!

this is referring to a kiss vector pistol and the photos originally submitted include the entire plastic part of the lower half of the firearm which is the receiver. maybe they want the whole plastic part?

Quote:
The photo provided for "Right Side" and "Left Side" of receiver/frame does not meet the necessary requirements to register your firearm as an assault weapon. Please review your photo and make sure all markings are legible before you resubmit. Refer to California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5474(c) for more information: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...let-button.pdf.
__________________________________________

This is referring to my Vepr12 shotgun, strangely, there are no characteristics to check for shotguns on the form... weird

Quote:
Based on the photos you provided, there are additional characteristics shown on your firearm that were not marked on the application. Please refer to California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5471 (z) for more information: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...let-button.pdf.
__________________________________________

This is referring to my Vepr 12 shotgun again, I guess they don't want any reference to molot or fire group even though thats the make I used to DROS this firearm.

Quote:
Based on the photos provided, the model of your firearm is "VEPR-12". Please correct your application to reflect "VEPR12" as your model number. Refer to California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5474(b) for more information: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...let-button.pdf.
__________________________________________

This is referring to my PSL again, I already checked thumbhole stock, maybe they want pistol grip too?

Quote:
Based on the photos you provided, there are additional characteristics shown on your firearm that were not marked on the application. Please refer to California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5471 (z) for more information: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...let-button.pdf.
__________________________________________

This is referring to one of my Ak's, I have no idea which photo or photos they don't like. they all look good to me.

Quote:
One or more of the photos you provided does not meet the necessary requirements to register your firearm as an assault weapon. Please review your photos and make sure all markings are legible before you resubmit. Refer to California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5474(c) for more information: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...let-button.pdf.
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  #67  
Old 11-15-2017, 6:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bootstrap View Post
Wonder what the make/model listed when the gun was DROSd? This would show up in the DOJ-provided firearms ownership report.

They expect us to register guns with different manufacturer than DROS records?

Add yet another level of retard to CA.
I sent in a notarized request to see all of the firearms registered to me prior to beginning the AW registrations - many had all kinds of goofy makes/models, barrel lengths...etc. They didn't care then...why should they now?
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  #68  
Old 11-15-2017, 6:36 PM
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Thanks for this great thread Caliguy93 - I wish I had read it BEFORE I submitted my stuff (37ea + 5 serial number requests for 80%ers). I will post the rejections that are obviously coming my way once I receive them. Please keep us updated on your saga...Thanks again!
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  #69  
Old 11-15-2017, 7:09 PM
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So for the whole 80% ordeal, it doesn't matter if you self engrave to ATF spec before homebuilds require serials first?

ALL unserialized homebuilds require a new DOJ assigned serial number by 2019 or something like that?
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Old 11-15-2017, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Lightstrider View Post
So for the whole 80% ordeal, it doesn't matter if you self engrave to ATF spec before homebuilds require serials first?

ALL unserialized homebuilds require a new DOJ assigned serial number by 2019 or something like that?
correct doesn't matter.. also doesn't matter even if you vol reg'd it
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  #71  
Old 11-15-2017, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by caliguy93 View Post
correct doesn't matter.. also doesn't matter even if you vol reg'd it
Pffffft!!
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  #72  
Old 11-16-2017, 6:17 AM
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Originally Posted by dwtt View Post
do they allow out of state residents to register guns? Because we might want to get in on the fun.
Will a person that moves to Ca after June 2018 and owns said AR's etc be able to register their legally owned firearms? Or will they have to be sold out of state prior to moving to Ca?
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  #73  
Old 11-16-2017, 6:37 AM
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correct doesn't matter.. also doesn't matter even if you vol reg'd it
That has to be deliberately illegal.
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  #74  
Old 11-16-2017, 6:38 AM
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Originally Posted by August View Post
Will a person that moves to Ca after June 2018 and owns said AR's etc be able to register their legally owned firearms? Or will they have to be sold out of state prior to moving to Ca?
Good point thought we were able to travel.
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Old 11-16-2017, 7:56 AM
rero360 rero360 is offline
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Originally Posted by 9M62 View Post
That's not 100% correct, though it is when regarding assault weapon registration.

If you have entered the firearm in the "centralized registry", which includes VolReg, you do not need to get a DOJ specific serial number. This is a specifically written exemption to the DOJ supplied serial number requirement for 80% long guns.

However, if you intend on registering it as an assault weapon, you do need a DOJ serial number. I.E., your VolReg will suffice the 80% serialization law, but it will not allow you to register it as an assault weapon.

So, your VolReg's need to be featureless or fixed mag, or you need to get a DOJ serial number and register it as an assault weapon and keep your bullet button.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the actual law says that if a serial number is entered into the central database, then it is acceptable for use for RAWs (meaning if you Vol-Reg something then it can be made into a RAW) however, the DOJ have decided that they are not going to accept that. I know I am in the process of attempting to do just that with my AR pistol, and have told them that because I am currently on deployment that I will be unable to put a DOJ assigned serial number on it prior to the RAW window closes. I have also been in communication with Michele and Associates and am keeping them up to date on the issue if they wish to use me as a future plaintiff.
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Old 11-16-2017, 8:30 AM
9M62 9M62 is offline
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Originally Posted by rero360 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the actual law says that if a serial number is entered into the central database, then it is acceptable for use for RAWs (meaning if you Vol-Reg something then it can be made into a RAW) however, the DOJ have decided that they are not going to accept that. I know I am in the process of attempting to do just that with my AR pistol, and have told them that because I am currently on deployment that I will be unable to put a DOJ assigned serial number on it prior to the RAW window closes. I have also been in communication with Michele and Associates and am keeping them up to date on the issue if they wish to use me as a future plaintiff.

1) The law, as it is written, indicates that a firearm that is in the registry (I.E., a VolReg 80%) should be allowed to be also entered into the assault weapon registry, however the Department of Justice has their own interpretation where they say no. According to the DOJ, and since they're the ones running the show it's essentially the rules, you need a DOJ specified serial number to enter an 80% into the assault weapon registry.

Basically the DOJ wants to audit the list of serialized firearms that are being entered into the Assault Weapon Registration database. They do this by either using FFL manufacturers (which are prohibited from reusing the same numbers on their guns), or using their own created serial numbers for you 80%.

I would assume this is because they are concerned that if they register your 80% as an assault weapon, with your own serial number and information, you could simply make thirty more of those all with the same number and information and no one would be able to tell the difference "on the street"
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Last edited by 9M62; 11-16-2017 at 9:06 AM..
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  #77  
Old 11-16-2017, 8:51 AM
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caliguy93 caliguy93 is offline
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This is a thread about AW registration. Serial number engraved to ATF specs, vol reg’d Or not is not acceptable for AW registration

You want to discuss anything else, take it somewhere else. Stop confusing people.
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Old 11-16-2017, 9:05 AM
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Lighten up, butter cup. I'll go ahead and delete everything I wrote and keep your blood pressure down for you.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:35 AM
jcwatchdog jcwatchdog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somefred View Post
So far, I have two:

1. can't read serial number, make, and model. Please provide clearer photo as optional extra photo

2. "Based on the photos provided, the caliber of your firearm is MULTI. Please correct your application to reflect MULTI as your caliber." - I selected "Firearm with interchangable barrels". There is no "multi" option.


It looks like whatever they are doing, it is arbitrarily decided either by when you submitted the registration or by who handles your particular registration. Both of mine are marked “multi” as the caliber, but I put them down as 5.56 as I wil never change the uppers to anything but that. They approved them just fine without having anything to change.
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Old 11-16-2017, 5:05 PM
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3 more rejections today, they are simple though. ran out of space in first post and it has been updated in second post.. these make a total of 63 for 29 firearms. I have since received only 14 "will receive notification by mail" emails
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