help with .30 carbine reloading

[pharris95]

Hi all, I just started reloading for the .30 carbine and I'm having an interesting problem... I'm using a set of Lee carbide dies, and when I use the expanding die, seating the bullet usually ends up crushing the brass. However, if I skip the seating die, the bullet loads just fine and appears to be set in pretty well. Does anyone know why it would do this and is it ok to just skip the expanding die? Thanks in advance for any help!

[Ugly Dwarf]

Originally Posted by pharris95

Hi all, I just started reloading for the .30 carbine and I'm having an interesting problem... I'm using a set of Lee carbide dies, and when I use the expanding die, seating the bullet usually ends up crushing the brass. However, if I skip the seating die, the bullet loads just fine and appears to be set in pretty well. Does anyone know why it would do this and is it ok to just skip the expanding die? Thanks in advance for any help!

Did you mean "skip the expanding die"?

I guess my follow up question is "crushes" how? Crushes the entire piece of brass down (like an accordian) or peels the belled portion of the expanded brass backwards like a flower petal?

If the later, it sounds like you have the expander set too deep. When properly set, that die should bell the cartridge just enough that you can insert a bullet without shaving off the sides when it is seated.

[lead chucker]

Interesting... I don't see how that would happen. I could see how re-sizing and then not expanding (belling) enough could cause case to crush... but skipping the expanding wouldn't help any - would just make the problem worse.

It couldn't be the re-size step you are referring to could it? I can definitely see how:
1) re-size with inadequate belling would lead to crushing case.
2) skipping the re-size, and still inadequate bell would not crush case.

[Army GI]

Originally Posted by Ugly Dwarf

Did you mean "skip the expanding die"?

I guess my follow up question is "crushes" how? Crushes the entire piece of brass down (like an accordian) or peels the belled portion of the expanded brass backwards like a flower petal?

If the later, it sounds like you have the expander set too deep. When properly set, that die should bell the cartridge just enough that you can insert a bullet without shaving off the sides when it is seated.

+1

It's easy to expand a small caliber like the .30 Carbine way too much. You need just a tiny bit of expansion.

[Nodda Duma]

Originally Posted by Ugly Dwarf

Did you mean "skip the expanding die"?

I guess my follow up question is "crushes" how? Crushes the entire piece of brass down (like an accordian) or peels the belled portion of the expanded brass backwards like a flower petal?

If the later, it sounds like you have the expander set too deep. When properly set, that die should bell the cartridge just enough that you can insert a bullet without shaving off the sides when it is seated.

What he said. Measure the mouth of the cartridge with a dial caliper. You should only be expanding something like .003-.005". You may or may not be able to detect this difference by eyeball.

Skipping the expanding die increases your chances of shaving the bullet and also increases bullet runout (not perfectly centered wrt the case).

-Jason

[ar15barrels]

[bohoki]

i reload with hornaday dies during resizing i dont have the die bottom out i leave a little daylight sliver because i know my carbine has a loose chamber and want to reduce oversizing them

i've never used the expanding die with fmj and have never squashed a mouth but i do it real slow also the seat die from hornady is really well designed it has a sliding sleeve seat that is unlike any ive seen before

try chamfering the case mouth with the deburring tool it makes the bullet seat much better

[pharris95]

Thanks everyone.

I have to fiddle with my expanding die I guess, for now, it either compresses the mouth (very weird), or crushes the case accordion style. It's just very frustrating to follow the instructions that Lee gave me and see it destroy every case I run through it.

[pharris95]

Here's what it look like. The case on the left has been run through the expanding die per Lee's directions. It's hard to from the picture, but the opening is actually smaller now. When I backed the die out a little, the case on the right resulted....

[bohoki]

lee is notorious for sizing 30 carbine too much

i suggest not bottoming out when you size stop maybe 1/16 before touching the shellholder

so the crushing is from the bullet seating process or the expanding process?

the expandingdie i hope is not bottomed out on the shellplate as well cause that wouldn't be right

[pharris95]

the first few crushed cases were from trying to seat a bullet, the next few came from the expanding die itself. the expanding die isn't bottomed when I use it, as per the instructions, I bottomed it out and then backed up one full turn. depending on how much I back it out, I get either compressed opening, or a crushed case (the crushed case usually being when I back it out more)

[kurac]

Something isn't right here. Are you new to reloading or just new to reloading for the .30 carbine?

[pharris95]

Yes, something is definitely not right. I am new to reloading, but I am following the instructions very closely.

[Nodda Duma]

Holy cow. It looks like you are setting the die way too far down in your press. It should only be acting on the first 1/16" of your case or so. Back the expander die out, then put the shellholder in the ram, raise the ram all the way, then screw the expander die in until it just touches the top of the shellholder. Back the expander die out another turn and use that as the starting point for working the expander die. As you adjust the expander, you should only be giving it 1/8 or 1/4 turn each time. Measure the mouth of the case with calipers and look for just a slightly wider diameter..like an extra .003" - .005".

If you've done this, then there's something wrong with the die and you should call Lee to get it serviced / replaced. Is the part inside the die still moving freely?

-Jason

[pharris95]

That's exactly what I've been doing, and each time, it ruins a case. I can hear a part within the die moving when I shake it, so that seems ok, but I am guessing that something is wrong with my expanding die. Time to see how good Lee's customer service is...

[kurac]

If I had to guess, which I hate to do, it looks like your mixed up your expanding and seating dies, unless Lee put the wrong expanding die in the package, I don't see how that kind of damage can be done.

[bruce381]

""I can hear a part within the die moving when I shake it""

there should be no shaking noise in the die is something in there blocking it?

[pharris95]

It's definitely the right die. I took it apart, and the rattling is caused by the thingamajig on the right moving up and down within the die.

[pharris95]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the brass is supposed to go over that middle part, flaring it slightly. If that's the case, then the middle part is the wrong size, because the case won't go over it. It will go in the hole in the middle, which compresses it slightly, which is where I've been getting some of my deformed cases. Does that sound right?

[kurac]

I am no expert on Lee dies but that picture appears to be of a seating die. The expanding die will have a rod that goes into the open end of the case at least 1/2" and maybe more.

[pharris95]

The inside doesn't look right, but if you look at a picture what the outside should look like, it's an expanding die. The most obvious thing is the hole on top of the die to allow powder to be poured in. I'm starting to think that they put the wrong piece inside...

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by pharris95

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the brass is supposed to go over that middle part, flaring it slightly. If that's the case, then the middle part is the wrong size, because the case won't go over it. It will go in the hole in the middle, which compresses it slightly, which is where I've been getting some of my deformed cases. Does that sound right?

That's definelty the wrong expander.
The expander goes INSIDE the case.

[You-Two]

FWIW - here a pic of my new Lee .30 M1 Carbine powder through expander die. Comparing your pic to mine it appears the expanding insert is the wrong size/part. Did you talk to Lee about it?

[bruceflinch]

Originally Posted by Tumbleweed

FWIW - here a pic of my new Lee .30 M1 Carbine powder through expander die. Comparing your pic to mine it appears the expanding insert is the wrong size/part. Did you talk to Lee about it?

Major difference in appearance, between the two expanders!

If the expander does not barely slip into the case a couple .001's, before you start cranking it down, then you have teh wrong expander. Is there a part # on the expander piece?