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Cool video on the end times.
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waste of bandwidth
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______________________________ In this life you either push or get shoved. Better to die on your feet then live on your knees. For evil to succeed, all it takes is for good men to do nothing. |
#7
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I'll be out of here, either death or pre-trib, pre-mill rapture (1 Thes. 4:13-18).
Jesus Christ. Don't leave earth without Him!
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#9
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Apocalyptic literature (end of Daniel, Zechariah, Revelation) is always less about the future and more about the present day of the author & audience. Learn the setting in all its details and you'll understand the imagery more than you ever could trying to imagine the future. In many cases, the imagery is borrowed from a previous author or even another culture/religion but then given new meaning in its present day. For example, Jesus's epic battle with Satan in Revelation is borrowed from the Canaanite story of Ba'al's battle with Yam, the dragon from the deep. The son of God (Ba'al is the son of El) does battle with the dragon from the deep ("Yam" = "Sea" in Hebrew). John's reinterpretation is interesting in its Christian context. I don't know how much he would have known about Canaanite mythology but Zechariah would have definitely known a bit and John borrows a lot from Zechariah, if I remember correctly.
It's always about giving hope to people who are under incredible stress to encourage them to keep going. It's never about fortune telling so much as providing hope and a reason to endure hardship experienced today. The details aren't even all that important, really. It's the message -- keep going! |
#10
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The video is titled
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1 Thessalonians 5:9 "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our LORD Jesus Christ." The Christian is the church is The Bride of Christ. Christ is not a wife beater. Back to the subject video, the farce that Darby came up with the concept of a "secret" rapture or even THE rapture has been refuted with historical evidence showing the church fathers talking about it from New Testament time to before Darby. The proof is in Scripture, not man.
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If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. - Ronald Reagan |
#11
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The Coming of the Son of Man
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. The Bible explicitly states that He returns after the Tribulation. Not before.
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
#12
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Except Gods wrath is not the same as the tribulation. There are multiple verses stating Jesus comes after the tribulation such as Matt 24:29. |
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The tribe is no picnic party. God will judge the nations, nations that will no longer exist after the trib.
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If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. - Ronald Reagan |
#15
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Every covenant theology theologian that I know admits that if you use a consistent, literal, grammatical, hermeneutic, you get a pre-trib rapture. IOW, they admit that you have to allegorize Scripture to get anything else.
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#16
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The elect are those saved after the Rapture. All Christians are elect, but the Rapture will take up the church (the dead in Christ after Pentecost through to Christians alive at the time of the Rapture).
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#18
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“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. ” |
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
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The reformers were VERY weak in their eschatology. But the Bible isn't. That's why I was very careful to describe the correct hermeneutic - the one that studies the Bible correctly. If you believe we are in the Millennium, then again, your hermeneutic is a VERY bad one. The Bible teaches a future, very literal 1000 year Millennium with Christ here reigning on earth! That hasn't happened yet. You have to do a LOT of allegorizing to take ALL the references to 1000 years in Revelation 20 and make them "a long time!" Especially when there are verses like v.3 that give comparative time references like "a short time" so that we know 1000 is specific. As Jesus prayed to the Father, "Sanctify them in the truth, Your word is truth. " (John 17:17). I'll stick with the truth, thank-you. Read my footnote.
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#21
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1 Thess. 4:13-18, with John 14:1–3; 1 Cor. 15:51, 52, make up the biblical basis for “the Rapture” of the church. However, when other texts such as Rev. 3:10; John 14:3 are studied with the texts about Christ’s coming in judgment (Matt. 13:34–50; 24:29–44; Rev. 19:11–21) at the end of the seven year tribulation, there is a clear difference with the “Rapture” in that there is no mention of any judgment, while the other texts highlight judgment. The Rapture is pre-tribulational (before the wrath of God in Rev. 6–19).
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#22
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Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me". If Jesus has been given all power then Satan has no power. He is chained until the end. The only thing left is that he be loosed for little while. We're already in the millenium. And once agian the Bible says that "immediately after". Adding or subtracting from the scriptures is a big no no. Read the Bible.
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
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The book of Revelation, chapters 1-3 are addressed to the churches of the church age. Chapter 4 begins with John, in allegory representing the church, is called up into heaven. (The Rapture.) The church is never again mentioned after that.
An unknown period of time elapses until the seals of judgement are opened in chapter 6. Then the plagues and destruction foretold by the prophets of old comes to fruition upon the whole earth. Quote:
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If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. - Ronald Reagan |
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You really think that church history is a hermeneutic? Ugh. When you constantly make those comments, all we hear is, "He doesn't know the Bible and worships church history." The belief in the Rapture goes all the way back to the Bible. That's all I need to know. There's been a LOT more wrong theology in history than right theology. Amillennialism is a perfect example. Matt 28:18 says "authority." You change that to power. Nice hermeneutic. "Authority" refers to sovereign authority. Sovereign authority has ALWAYS been with God. Jesus was saying it here to confirm His deity. God's Sovereign authority has never been shared with anyone. BUT, power is different. Under God's sovereign authority, power has been given to Satan. Ever read Job, especially Job 1-2? God allowed Satan to test Job. But as we like to say, Satan is on a leash controlled by God. Sooooo, if you believe that Satan is "chained up until the end," then you make Peter and the Holy Spirit liars. 1 Peter 5:8 Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9 But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world. And, James must be a liar too: James 4:7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Paul must be a liar too! And, I don't have to worry about anger since the devil won't have an opportunity (according to you): Eph4:26 BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and do not give the devil an opportunity. And, finally, I can take off all that heavy armor! "Schemes of the devil" was just fake news from Paul: Eph6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Satan has power, be sure of that. He does NOT have sovereign authority nor sovereign power nor sovereignty of any kind. He's real, and he's roaming round, but probably spending most of his time with Joel Osteen and Benny Hinn. No, we're not in the Millennium. Good hermeneutics will show you that. If the Rapture comes during our lifetime, I'll look for you because I'll want to see the wonderful joy on your face as you rise in the air to meet your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Maranatha!
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#26
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#27
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An elder-driven church just like the Pastoral Epistles describe. Nothing special, no affiliations, etc. Just trying to be what the NT teaches for the local church!
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
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Yes the word "rapture" is there. But there is no basis whatsoever for a pre-trib rapture. Again, the Bible says “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
You can twist the Scriptures any way you want. But you can't say the Bible doesn't say "immediately after".
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
#29
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All your verse above shows is that the 2nd Coming of Christ is after the Tribulation (read your verse!). This is when He comes to earth to establish His Millennial kingdom. The Rapture is a separate event BEFORE the Tribulation. And, when the REAL Millennium occurs, Jesus Christ will be here on earth reigning for 1000 years (read your Bible!). Your verse says NOTHING about the Rapture unless you are confusing the 2nd Coming with the Rapture. Like I said before, your "source" of authority, reformers, did not have a well-developed, biblical eschatology. Try the Bible instead (John 17:17). Yet, you seem to think we're in the Millennium. Well..... I haven't seen Christ around reigning NOR all the prophecies of the Millennium being fulfilled. Of course, you did not biblically refute all the problems I pointed out above where you make the Holy Spirit and the author of Scriptures liars...
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#31
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Now how about dealing with my refutation of your Matthew verse instead of playing games with my posts? We're ALL waiting to see if you know the Bible, in context, or if you just like to quote reformers and dodge and dance when the Bible is presented and/or your proof-texting is refuted. In Christ,
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
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You haven't seen my private messages then.
EVERYONE sees the games that you play because you don't know the Bible and hold onto beliefs merely because you read only what you want to read about the Bible. We're waiting for you to be a Christian "elder" as you claim and put together something biblically-based like Luther did. Read my footnote below. In Christ,
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
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"Hillarious," "temper tantrums" = personal attacks. Thanks. Actually not true either, but this personally attacking is a worldly progression to handle conflict when backed in a corner. Not an elder move, though. You have never gotten me angry. I don't give up the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23) for your comments. I just deal with them biblically as I do everyone else's and then move on. I'm gentler with those who don't say that they are pastors, elders, etc. James 3:1 doesn't apply to them. "Every time someone refutes you." Do you want me to post an interlaced version of our posts and show you that not only are you the one refuted, but that you didn't deal with 99% of my comments back to you? I don't think so. They are all there for everyone else to see that this is not a true statement by any means. In Christ,
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
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I was not "refuted" by you since you didn't deal with the content of my posts. And, it was pointed out to you that you mis-interpreted Matthew's use of authority as "power." Now you can do as you promised and walk away from the thread. In Christ,
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
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Bill, you really come off as pompous and arrogant. I agree with you when you tell people to refute you Biblically. No issues there. But why not leave it at that? In your last post, you ended by telling Ramclap that he could now walk away from the post as promised, and finished with a “God Bless.” Do you really believe that is a Christ-like attitude? Aren’t you intentionally provoking him? I enjoy the the debates, but your snide comments really turn me off. Disappointing.
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#40
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__________________
If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. - Ronald Reagan |
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