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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-05-2012, 6:23 PM
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Default AR double fire issues?

I have about 100 rounds through my AR and today it started to rapid fire in 2 round burst. It doesn't do it all the time, I just wondering what would cause this so i can fix it before i go to the range again.
I only have 1 mag so i couldn't try another one but the one i do have is brand new magpul 10/30
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Old 05-05-2012, 6:27 PM
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Define "rapid fire in 2 round burst".
Does it fire 2 rounds with one pull of the trigger or are you puling the trigger for each shot?
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Old 05-05-2012, 6:27 PM
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Your hammer spring is probably installed backwards.
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Old 05-05-2012, 6:28 PM
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have you done anything to the trigger, need more info on the ar . did you build it or bought it fully build
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Old 05-05-2012, 6:28 PM
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There could be several reasons for the double fire, check your fire control group for any loose parts. I would get it chcked out by a gunsmith do not fire it until you getthe issue fixed
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Old 05-05-2012, 6:31 PM
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You could be bump firing it, have another shooter shoot it. If not, do a complete function test and make sure the hammer is catching the disconnector while holding down the trigger and cycling the bolt, you should hear a click when you release the trigger.
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Old 05-05-2012, 6:32 PM
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Want to post what ammo and BCG parts you're using?
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  #8  
Old 05-05-2012, 6:33 PM
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I had this happen several times recently. Is your trigger or hammer pin walking out?
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  #9  
Old 05-05-2012, 6:35 PM
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That's a bonus feature!

Just kidding... check the disconnector spring on your trigger, it could be backwards.
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Old 05-05-2012, 7:21 PM
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WOW you guys are throwing the kitchen sink at this one ammo are you serious.90 % of the time it is your disconector and spring.check the spring orientation.
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Old 05-05-2012, 7:31 PM
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I posted images of the springs awhile ago here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=32797

This might help you.
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  #12  
Old 05-05-2012, 7:45 PM
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Thanks creampuff i was just now starting to upload some some photos.
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  #13  
Old 05-05-2012, 7:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve92407 View Post
WOW you guys are throwing the kitchen sink at this one ammo are you serious.90 % of the time it is your disconector and spring.check the spring orientation.
it's your fast trigger finger
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  #14  
Old 05-05-2012, 7:55 PM
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Blame it on wolf ammo!!!
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  #15  
Old 05-05-2012, 8:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve92407 View Post
Blame it on wolf ammo!!!
Wolf ammo has hard anvil primers, so no. It's more likely with high grade hunting or match ammo.
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  #16  
Old 05-05-2012, 8:19 PM
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My first guess would be the disconnector spring. Make sure the wide end goes down in the trigger assembly. Having the wide end up can cause the disconnector to malfunction.
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  #17  
Old 05-05-2012, 8:38 PM
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Unshrouded bolt carrier and the wrong firing pin was not mentioned...
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  #18  
Old 05-05-2012, 10:31 PM
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Freon you have a good point. butt my memory says the rifle fired fullauto when the trigger was depressed not 2 rounds.
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  #19  
Old 05-05-2012, 10:38 PM
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check out the fire control group (trigger,hammer, springs, all that)
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  #20  
Old 05-05-2012, 11:01 PM
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I was shooting Rem. .223
I gun was bought complete from TDS
I will take pics tomorrow of a close up of everything
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  #21  
Old 05-05-2012, 11:15 PM
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Public Service Announcement...
Fix this issue immediately.
Don't keep the firearm assembled until it's fixed.
BATFE have convicted people for possessing unregistered MGs because their semi-auto rifle malfunctioned and fired in "bursts".
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  #22  
Old 05-06-2012, 12:49 AM
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Default This is a myth!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Public Service Announcement...
Fix this issue immediately.
Don't keep the firearm assembled until it's fixed.
BATFE have convicted people for possessing unregistered MGs because their semi-auto rifle malfunctioned and fired in "bursts".
I have never seen genuine case of anyone being convicted of possessing an illegal MG because the gun was malfunctioning (firing in "bursts"). There was a very well publicized case a few years ago in which certain media outlets attempted to portray a gun owner as being the innocent victim of a BATF witch hunt. A few minutes research turned up a much more believable story, in which the guy obviously and purposely converted the AR to shoot bursts. There were witnesses, the gun was purposely modified, they had the guy dead to rights. In fact the law in question specifically exempts from prosecution guns that are malfunctioning .
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  #23  
Old 05-06-2012, 9:17 AM
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Test you setup using snap caps

Fire, keep the trigger fully depressed, cycle the next snap cap by pulling back on the charging handle, then release the trigger

Make sure it catches and does not drop the hammer again upon release

Then try with live ammo, load 1 round in the magazine, then fire and check the hammer position

Then load 2 and re check
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  #24  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
You could be bump firing it, have another shooter shoot it. If not, do a complete function test and make sure the hammer is catching the disconnector while holding down the trigger and cycling the bolt, you should hear a click when you release the trigger.
I could be bump firing it.....

i cycled the bolt and held down the trigger then released it and it did click

Pics for the trigger assembly and build sheet
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMAG0012.jpg (93.4 KB, 79 views)
File Type: jpg IMAG0013.jpg (89.6 KB, 76 views)
File Type: jpg IMAG0014.jpg (92.2 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpg IMAG0015.jpg (92.9 KB, 70 views)
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  #25  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:29 AM
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The 2 round burst happened about 2-3 tmes then i started loading single shots.
I was sighting in a scope so i only had 4 rounds in the mag at a time. I don't think i did it on the first round just on round 2-3

I'm going to talk to TDS about it in the morning too.
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  #26  
Old 05-06-2012, 8:29 PM
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From the second image it looks like your disconnector spring may be upside down (possibly). Take it out and check/verify that the larger in diameter end of the spring is in the bottom. In this pic you can see that the large part is on the right side, it should be down in the trigger.
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File Type: jpg 570558.jpg (21.4 KB, 49 views)
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  #27  
Old 05-06-2012, 9:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchappies View Post
I could be bump firing it.....

i cycled the bolt and held down the trigger then released it and it did click

Pics for the trigger assembly and build sheet
Try pressing up and down on the disconnector with your finger above the spring area and see if it see-saws smoothly.

Also try this at the range. Load two rounds at a time in the mag, shoot and hold down the trigger for a second or two after every shot. If it works, then you could be bump firing it.

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Old 05-07-2012, 12:52 AM
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Remove the upper and do a function check (don't let the hammer slam down on your lower, that is probably not good for your lower)

Copied from ar15dotcom.

FUNCTION CHECK


Verify that hammer locks to the rear when pushed back.
Verify that hammer pivots forward when trigger is pressed.
Without releasing the trigger, push the hammer back again and verify that it locks (caught by disconnector).
Releasing the trigger should not cause the hammer to pivot fully forward (caught by trigger).
Hammer will fall when trigger is pressed.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:56 AM
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JC, You may be experiencing "slam fire" conditions. The firing pin is free floating in an AR and can deliver a small bump to the primer when the bolt goes into battery. If it's movement (firing pin) is restricted it can deliver a enough of a bump to the primer to cause ignition. Check and make sure the firing pin moves freely within the bolt carrier. I think you mentioned that the ammo was "Federal" but my second thought would be faulty ammo. Primers that are not properly seated can increase the chance of a slam fire. Slam fires are more common with reloads because some primers burn off easier than others.

Last edited by waitwhat; 05-07-2012 at 10:59 AM..
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  #30  
Old 05-07-2012, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creampuff View Post
Remove the upper and do a function check (don't let the hammer slam down on your lower, that is probably not good for your lower)

Copied from ar15dotcom.

FUNCTION CHECK


Verify that hammer locks to the rear when pushed back.
Verify that hammer pivots forward when trigger is pressed.
Without releasing the trigger, push the hammer back again and verify that it locks (caught by disconnector).
Releasing the trigger should not cause the hammer to pivot fully forward (caught by trigger).
Hammer will fall when trigger is pressed.

A slightly more "correct" (at least by Marine Corps armorer standards) would be:

- Start with the weapon assembled and unloaded.
- Rest the weapon on it's buttstock facing towards the ceiling on a bench or table.
- Charge the weapon
- Selector lever to "SAFE", pull the trigger. Should not fire. (If it does, you probably have a cracked trigger, very rare)
- Selector lever to "FIRE".
- Pull the trigger and hold it down, the hammer should fall.
- With the trigger held down, charge the weapon, fully releasing the charging handle.
- Slowly ease off the pressure of the trigger. Do not milk it, but slowly release it.
- The hammer should "clunk" when it resets, but not fall.
- Repeat two or three times.

For semi-auto AR's, this will tell you a lot. A double fall can be caused by several things,
- Improper assembly of disconnector in the trigger (spring wrong or kinked)
- Dirty gunk build up in trigger disconnector slot (disconnector doesn't freely move, disassemble, clean, lubricate)
- Worn or broken disconnector hook or trigger hook
- Improper assembly of hammer (hammer spring in backwards)
- Improper assemble of trigger (trigger spring upside down)
- Excessive wear on hammer sear or trigger sear surface (remove and inspect)
- Excessive carbon/gunk buildup on hammer sear or trigger sear surface (remove and clean)
- Worn or loose hammer pin or trigger pin (inspect and replace with new pin)
- Worn or oblonged hammer pin and/or trigger pin holes in lower receiver (replace lower, or try install anti-roll pin kit, or new hammer and trigger pins)
- ****ty LPK (Brand X hammer with Brand Y trigger, and they just don't get along)

First things first... disassemble, clean, inspect, lube, reassemble, re-test. If the problem persists, then break it down, and get it to a gunsmith. I'd strongly suggest not just buying new parts and swapping them out to find the "bad one" unless you have lots of spare pieces laying around. Taking the rifle into a shop to be worked on is the best bet... they've got lots of parts laying about that they can try out.

I've seen all of these problems before, and the hardest one to really nail down is when you have a slightly-out-of-spec hammer or trigger that is brand new. To the naked eye, they may be perfect, but together they are just out of spec enough to slip and double fire. Replacing either one would fix the problem, very frustrating.
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  #31  
Old 05-07-2012, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TZL View Post
Test you setup using snap caps

Fire, keep the trigger fully depressed, cycle the next snap cap by pulling back on the charging handle, then release the trigger

Make sure it catches and does not drop the hammer again upon release

Then try with live ammo, load 1 round in the magazine, then fire and check the hammer position

Then load 2 and re check
+1 a u-tube video I checked out to do my build had these steps out lined and it seems like a rational test.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchappies View Post
I was shooting Rem. .223
I gun was bought complete from TDS
I will take pics tomorrow of a close up of everything
Don't mess around with it. Take it back to TDS.
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  #33  
Old 05-07-2012, 3:11 PM
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I called TDS and take it in on WED.
I will do the function test tonight though
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Old 05-12-2012, 7:47 PM
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Turned out to be the Disconnector (not the spring)
It was rounded where it should have been a 90* angle
Putting the two together you could clearly see the difference
I still need to shoot it to make 100% sure it was fixed.
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Old 12-28-2012, 6:19 AM
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Default What law specifically exempts from prosecution guns that are malfunctioning?

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Originally Posted by captbilly View Post
In fact the law in question specifically exempts from prosecution guns that are malfunctioning .
What law specifically exempts from prosecution guns that are malfunctioning?
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