Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > OUTDOORS, HUNTING AND SURVIVAL > Blades, Bows and Tools
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Blades, Bows and Tools Discussion of non-firearm weapons and camping/survival tools.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 08-24-2017, 1:06 PM
crufflers's Avatar
crufflers crufflers is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,941
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvenSoul View Post
Here ya go!

One of the cheapest vs not so cheap
https://youtu.be/NxiKauGzoLM
Isn't that a GERBER? I'd take a Mora any day. Mora Allrounds are scary sharp and hold an edge + do not rust.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 08-24-2017, 1:07 PM
ElvenSoul's Avatar
ElvenSoul ElvenSoul is online now
Free at Last!
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 17,855
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
Isn't that a GERBER? I'd take a Mora any day.
The very cheapest they make
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-24-2017, 3:34 PM
spfabrication's Avatar
spfabrication spfabrication is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: ID
Posts: 615
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
I don't even know what steel Randalls are made of. What is it?
The tool steel blades are made of Swedish Uddeholm FB-01, a high carbon, oil hardened, fine grain steel. The stainless steel is American 440B, an air hardened, stainless die steel. Big history of hardcore fighting knives used in battle by US warriors. They make some fine hunting/camp knives too. Check them out.
http://www.randallknives.com/
__________________
GO NAVY
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-24-2017, 3:51 PM
crufflers's Avatar
crufflers crufflers is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,941
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvenSoul View Post
The very cheapest they make
The one I want is the 5.8" blade Allround for under $20 Amazon Prime!

The 8.1" blade Allround is a BEAST of a Mora. Good for lots of things - kicks butt in the kitchen..

This one is cute though:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/MORAK..._search%3Dmora
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 08-24-2017, 4:34 PM
crufflers's Avatar
crufflers crufflers is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,941
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEFCON ZERO View Post
In other words, can't I buy the exact same steel they use for $200 knives pretty cheap? Like I can buy the leather they use for $2000 shoes pretty cheap.
You could get some designs with multiple steel options priced accordingly.

$40 Blur might be Sandvic, $50 is BDZ1, $80 is S30V, etc...

Spyderco YOII $120 for S30V, $170 for S90V.

PM2 S30V $120, S110V $160
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 08-24-2017, 4:36 PM
ElvenSoul's Avatar
ElvenSoul ElvenSoul is online now
Free at Last!
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 17,855
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
The one I want is the 5.8" blade Allround for under $20 Amazon Prime!

The 8.1" blade Allround is a BEAST of a Mora. Good for lots of things - kicks butt in the kitchen..

This one is cute though:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/MORAK..._search%3Dmora
Looks very similar to the Old Mora Leeku. That knife was a beast.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 08-24-2017, 5:54 PM
stilly stilly is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Currently in a shanty I made in the river bottom by Eastvale.
Posts: 10,513
iTrader: 51 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEFCON ZERO View Post
after the first couple of resharpenings than a $20, $10 or even $2 knife?

anyone done scientific tests showing a $200 knife is enough better that a human could actually tell in a double blind test?

Take two knives and wrap both handles in enough tape to hide the shape, then ask a exp user to cut some meat blindfolded and see if he can guess which is which.

Sounds like a hard sell TV info merical.
You need to consider build quality and materials used.

Go here and educate yourself. https://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/steel-chart/

There are a LOT of different metals to read about. that whole section talking about parts of a knife and other things is all good info though.

TLDNR: in order to get certain attributes in the steel, different processes/combinations are used. those are typically what jacks up the cost, AND how well they are performed.

Last edited by stilly; 08-24-2017 at 5:56 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 08-24-2017, 8:17 PM
milotrain's Avatar
milotrain milotrain is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,242
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Good knives have good steel and good ergonomics. Good steel can be quite cheap or it can be expensive, depends on how much you can stomach high carbon steel vs stainless in a work knife. If you don't care about stainless then A2 or O1 steel is fantastic knife steel, it is very cheap respective to fancier steel, is cheaper to work (eats less abrasive), and is easy to heat treat properly. All that means that a good knife made from A2 or O1 will be much cheaper to make than a good knife made from S90V.

Once a knife is made out of good steel and has a useful profile that you like then it comes down to two things: do you have good stones, and can you use them properly?
__________________
weg: That device is obsolete now. They replaced it with wizards.
frank: Wait a minute. There are more than one wizard? Is [are?] the wizard calibrated?

Last edited by milotrain; 08-24-2017 at 8:20 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 08-26-2017, 4:27 PM
crufflers's Avatar
crufflers crufflers is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,941
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

I like those MORA 4.1" with the clip sheath for $10-$13 but this is why I don't love them.




Here's the rust bucket with the 8.1" Allround that doesn't rust... ordering the 5.8" soon... 8.1" has a bowie type tip which is pretty nice. Larger stickier handle is nice too.

Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 08-27-2017, 2:18 PM
elemen0hpee's Avatar
elemen0hpee elemen0hpee is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Vista, CA
Posts: 21
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Does a Kia drive better than a Mercedes? Both will roll you down the street, it's your choice on how you like to roll.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 08-31-2017, 1:53 PM
crufflers's Avatar
crufflers crufflers is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,941
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default



Carrying this one today. Honestly besides the steel, it is a fantastic knife for the $25-$35 price. Action and detent are perfect for the Wave feature, great G10 on both sides. It is smooth as silk. Model 6044TBLK CQC-8K chisel grind. Of course it has side-to-side blade slop, but not as bad as my Thermite. I have another one of the Kershaw Emerson designs where the action is not ideal - pretty stiff but have not adjusted pivot. Again, with cheap knives, two "identical" models are usually different. I'm sure the ZT variants of Emerson's designs are smooth and tight, plus awesome blade steel.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 09-03-2017, 8:18 PM
LkPillsburyDude LkPillsburyDude is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sonoma county
Posts: 494
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

I've got a couple randalls, a ton of benchmades and a Chris Reeves Umnumzaan. All expensive knives (to me anyways) Does the 400+ dollar CR do anything a 100 dollar benchmade won't? No. But to me I appreciate the art work quality of the expensive knives. The Randall won't do anything my swamp rat can't, but the Randall is gorgeous and definitely has more art in it.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 09-04-2017, 5:55 AM
mif_slim's Avatar
mif_slim mif_slim is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fresh-Snow
Posts: 9,886
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

My 5 dollar fillet knife can cut just as good as my 280 dollar Coldsteel. The problem though is my fillet knife will need to be resharpened after 10 or so fish. My Coldsteel on the other hand, has done 10+ deer, 6 bear, 2 sheep, 1 cow and countless fish. It's whole life, I sharpened it about 4-5 times. That's about a 10 year span. So yes, price (or steel, rather) does matter.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 09-11-2017, 8:00 PM
alexisjohnson alexisjohnson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 294
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

The law of diminishing returns definitely applies to knives, just like anything else.

Knives with better steel definitely perform better. They retain their edge for longer and so they're much safer to use. You will notice this edge retention when say, processing a deer. You'll definitely notice it when processing an elk or a moose.

But as the price goes over a certain point, i think it becomes more about beauty and crafstmanship than actual function.

This also applies to guns. For example, a 500 dollar glock gets the job done. A 1,500 dollar nighthawk may be 2wice as accurate. But then as you go higher....it becomes more about beauty and individual crafstmanship.

I personally own super cheap moras, as well as what i consider to be more expensive knives. They each have their place. I would never purchase a knife that was above 400 dollars though. At that point, i don't believe i could justify the cost vs utility ratio...
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 09-11-2017, 8:15 PM
crufflers's Avatar
crufflers crufflers is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,941
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexisjohnson View Post
The law of diminishing returns definitely applies to knives, just like anything else.

I would never purchase a knife that was above 400 dollars though. At that point, i don't believe i could justify the cost vs utility ratio...
That's pretty much it for me too. Others will have higher limits. Some guys feel $2000 the same as $400 - maybe not at all in their specific budget or judgement. More power to them. I'm not capable of buying a few INFI Team Gemini's or whatever each month, but one for my collection maybe. That law of diminishing returns is kind of relative.

It is nice when that $400 knife can be dumped for more than you paid, even used.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 09-12-2017, 7:41 PM
YoungGunZ YoungGunZ is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 39
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Just google the law of diminishing returns and there's the answer to your question
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 09-13-2017, 3:26 AM
FatCity67's Avatar
FatCity67 FatCity67 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,003
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Some of the best knives ever made after looking at price, quality of materials, manufacturing process, aesthetics and engineered design were from production USA Knife companies of the 20th century that made their product with US labor in this country. Most unfortunately are gone or have been bought out with manufacturing and sourced materials moved overseas.

So to answer the question subjectively IMO No.

All the esoteric metals and other materials not to mention many long hours of customization don't actual get you a "better" or more functional knife.

Pretty to look at with bragging rights yes. Show me any customized multi $K knife and I guarantee There is a USA made production knife from any decade in the last Century that can match it and probably out last it for functionality and performance.

And yes I own some of those $K customized safe Queens.

Last edited by FatCity67; 09-13-2017 at 3:37 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 09-13-2017, 8:32 AM
crufflers's Avatar
crufflers crufflers is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,941
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatCity67 View Post
So to answer the question subjectively IMO No.

All the esoteric metals and other materials not to mention many long hours of customization don't actual get you a "better" or more functional knife.

Pretty to look at with bragging rights yes. Show me any customized multi $K knife and I guarantee There is a USA made production knife from any decade in the last Century that can match it and probably out last it for functionality and performance.

I think if you take a piece of the best steel for what you want to use it for and then give it the best possible heat treat and grind it the exact way you need it to perform your tasks... you don't have to have the hundreds to thousand dollars worth of labor to polish, shine, dehorn, etc... or the exotic materials. It looks pretty, but not absolutely needed for function. Whether you want it for looks, status, collecting, uniqueness, etc... that's up to the user or collector. Sometimes the only competition to a fancy blade of the best materials is a bargain blade of the best materials by the same maker IMHO. That's what the Combat Grade and Battle Grade blades are about with the BUSSE Combat brand, and what Scrap Yard and Swamp Rat brands are about for that matter. The difference is materials to some small extent, but mostly labor.

A seemingly utilitarian blade like a Swamp Rat Taliwhacker LE is relatively expensive because the blade is not left ROUGH then powder coated. It is hand polished. Labor and expert attention is expensive. Custom shop stuff that runs $1000+ is because of the labor and attention - craftsmanship.

Not real hard to understand for a gun guy. Just look at 1911's. You don't need a Wilson or Nighthawk of SA PRO to hit a target 10 yards away. It is still just a hand gun.

Last edited by crufflers; 09-13-2017 at 8:48 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 09-15-2017, 12:18 PM
Coolguy101 Coolguy101 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 244
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

It all depends on what the knife is going to be used for. Pocket carry, self defense, kitchen work, meat cutting, animal skinning, opening boxes?

The best tools for each job vary, and so does the price.

Ask a butcher which knife brand they use and why. A lot of them use Forschner, which are stamped steel blades and not very expensive. But they use them for a reason.

Have you ever skinned a large animal? Edge retention is a big factor there, as well as ease of re-sharpening.

I've owned my Henckels 4 Star kitchen knives for about 19 years. They have been professionally sharpened only one time during that entire period. I've maintained the edge myself, until I finally needed the edges redone in a way that I couldn't. Now I fully expect them to last me another 20 years or so.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 09-15-2017, 2:22 PM
Californio Californio is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: So. Cal
Posts: 3,667
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

My only expensive knives are titanium because they don't rust and are great for diving, my EDC is a folding buck throwaway, butchering knives are some custom pieces my Father made and plain old carbon steel, carbon steel is great and hold an edge, just have to maintain them.

I do have an Esse 5 but prefer an axe when camping. Fishing is a Finland made knife with a lot of bend.
__________________
"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it." Matthew Quigley
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 09-15-2017, 2:29 PM
Montu Montu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: The Free State of Arizona
Posts: 1,565
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Depends, You can look for the type of steel you want then choose whatever knife uses it..

However, I am pretty abusive toward my knives and use them for things they should not be used for...cheap knives have broken or worn out quite fast on me.

My Benchmade 940 has held up very well, I especially think the axis lock is worth paying for.

My favorite cheap knives are Kershaw
__________________
K.F.K|Μολὼν λαβέ

Last edited by Montu; 09-15-2017 at 2:39 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 09-18-2017, 1:00 PM
elSquid's Avatar
elSquid elSquid is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Left coast.
Posts: 9,374
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post


Carrying this one today. Honestly besides the steel, it is a fantastic knife for the $25-$35 price. Action and detent are perfect for the Wave feature, great G10 on both sides. It is smooth as silk. Model 6044TBLK CQC-8K chisel grind.
Based on your recommendation, I picked up one off of Amazon. Neat knife, worth it just to be able to play around with the wave feature. This is my first wave knife. Said feature works fine, but I wonder how long my jean pockets will last.

Thanks!

-- Michael
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 09-18-2017, 1:24 PM
crufflers's Avatar
crufflers crufflers is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,941
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elSquid View Post
Based on your recommendation, I picked up one off of Amazon. Neat knife, worth it just to be able to play around with the wave feature. This is my first wave knife. Said feature works fine, but I wonder how long my jean pockets will last.

Thanks!

-- Michael
Enjoy ! Wave opening is pretty neat and definitely fast with the right pockets.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:51 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.