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Blades, Bows and Tools Discussion of non-firearm weapons and camping/survival tools.

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  #41  
Old 08-24-2017, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvenSoul View Post
Here ya go!

One of the cheapest vs not so cheap
https://youtu.be/NxiKauGzoLM
Isn't that a GERBER? I'd take a Mora any day. Mora Allrounds are scary sharp and hold an edge + do not rust.
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  #42  
Old 08-24-2017, 2:07 PM
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Isn't that a GERBER? I'd take a Mora any day.
The very cheapest they make
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  #43  
Old 08-24-2017, 4:34 PM
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Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
I don't even know what steel Randalls are made of. What is it?
The tool steel blades are made of Swedish Uddeholm FB-01, a high carbon, oil hardened, fine grain steel. The stainless steel is American 440B, an air hardened, stainless die steel. Big history of hardcore fighting knives used in battle by US warriors. They make some fine hunting/camp knives too. Check them out.
http://www.randallknives.com/
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  #44  
Old 08-24-2017, 4:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ElvenSoul View Post
The very cheapest they make
The one I want is the 5.8" blade Allround for under $20 Amazon Prime!

The 8.1" blade Allround is a BEAST of a Mora. Good for lots of things - kicks butt in the kitchen..

This one is cute though:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/MORAK..._search%3Dmora
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  #45  
Old 08-24-2017, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DEFCON ZERO View Post
In other words, can't I buy the exact same steel they use for $200 knives pretty cheap? Like I can buy the leather they use for $2000 shoes pretty cheap.
You could get some designs with multiple steel options priced accordingly.

$40 Blur might be Sandvic, $50 is BDZ1, $80 is S30V, etc...

Spyderco YOII $120 for S30V, $170 for S90V.

PM2 S30V $120, S110V $160
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  #46  
Old 08-24-2017, 5:36 PM
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The one I want is the 5.8" blade Allround for under $20 Amazon Prime!

The 8.1" blade Allround is a BEAST of a Mora. Good for lots of things - kicks butt in the kitchen..

This one is cute though:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/MORAK..._search%3Dmora
Looks very similar to the Old Mora Leeku. That knife was a beast.
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  #47  
Old 08-24-2017, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DEFCON ZERO View Post
after the first couple of resharpenings than a $20, $10 or even $2 knife?

anyone done scientific tests showing a $200 knife is enough better that a human could actually tell in a double blind test?

Take two knives and wrap both handles in enough tape to hide the shape, then ask a exp user to cut some meat blindfolded and see if he can guess which is which.

Sounds like a hard sell TV info merical.
You need to consider build quality and materials used.

Go here and educate yourself. https://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/steel-chart/

There are a LOT of different metals to read about. that whole section talking about parts of a knife and other things is all good info though.

TLDNR: in order to get certain attributes in the steel, different processes/combinations are used. those are typically what jacks up the cost, AND how well they are performed.

Last edited by stilly; 08-24-2017 at 6:56 PM..
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  #48  
Old 08-24-2017, 9:17 PM
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Good knives have good steel and good ergonomics. Good steel can be quite cheap or it can be expensive, depends on how much you can stomach high carbon steel vs stainless in a work knife. If you don't care about stainless then A2 or O1 steel is fantastic knife steel, it is very cheap respective to fancier steel, is cheaper to work (eats less abrasive), and is easy to heat treat properly. All that means that a good knife made from A2 or O1 will be much cheaper to make than a good knife made from S90V.

Once a knife is made out of good steel and has a useful profile that you like then it comes down to two things: do you have good stones, and can you use them properly?
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  #49  
Old 08-26-2017, 5:27 PM
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I like those MORA 4.1" with the clip sheath for $10-$13 but this is why I don't love them.




Here's the rust bucket with the 8.1" Allround that doesn't rust... ordering the 5.8" soon... 8.1" has a bowie type tip which is pretty nice. Larger stickier handle is nice too.

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  #50  
Old 08-27-2017, 3:18 PM
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Does a Kia drive better than a Mercedes? Both will roll you down the street, it's your choice on how you like to roll.
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  #51  
Old 08-31-2017, 2:53 PM
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Carrying this one today. Honestly besides the steel, it is a fantastic knife for the $25-$35 price. Action and detent are perfect for the Wave feature, great G10 on both sides. It is smooth as silk. Model 6044TBLK CQC-8K chisel grind. Of course it has side-to-side blade slop, but not as bad as my Thermite. I have another one of the Kershaw Emerson designs where the action is not ideal - pretty stiff but have not adjusted pivot. Again, with cheap knives, two "identical" models are usually different. I'm sure the ZT variants of Emerson's designs are smooth and tight, plus awesome blade steel.
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  #52  
Old 09-03-2017, 9:18 PM
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I've got a couple randalls, a ton of benchmades and a Chris Reeves Umnumzaan. All expensive knives (to me anyways) Does the 400+ dollar CR do anything a 100 dollar benchmade won't? No. But to me I appreciate the art work quality of the expensive knives. The Randall won't do anything my swamp rat can't, but the Randall is gorgeous and definitely has more art in it.
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  #53  
Old 09-04-2017, 6:55 AM
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My 5 dollar fillet knife can cut just as good as my 280 dollar Coldsteel. The problem though is my fillet knife will need to be resharpened after 10 or so fish. My Coldsteel on the other hand, has done 10+ deer, 6 bear, 2 sheep, 1 cow and countless fish. It's whole life, I sharpened it about 4-5 times. That's about a 10 year span. So yes, price (or steel, rather) does matter.
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  #54  
Old 09-11-2017, 9:00 PM
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The law of diminishing returns definitely applies to knives, just like anything else.

Knives with better steel definitely perform better. They retain their edge for longer and so they're much safer to use. You will notice this edge retention when say, processing a deer. You'll definitely notice it when processing an elk or a moose.

But as the price goes over a certain point, i think it becomes more about beauty and crafstmanship than actual function.

This also applies to guns. For example, a 500 dollar glock gets the job done. A 1,500 dollar nighthawk may be 2wice as accurate. But then as you go higher....it becomes more about beauty and individual crafstmanship.

I personally own super cheap moras, as well as what i consider to be more expensive knives. They each have their place. I would never purchase a knife that was above 400 dollars though. At that point, i don't believe i could justify the cost vs utility ratio...
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  #55  
Old 09-11-2017, 9:15 PM
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Originally Posted by alexisjohnson View Post
The law of diminishing returns definitely applies to knives, just like anything else.

I would never purchase a knife that was above 400 dollars though. At that point, i don't believe i could justify the cost vs utility ratio...
That's pretty much it for me too. Others will have higher limits. Some guys feel $2000 the same as $400 - maybe not at all in their specific budget or judgement. More power to them. I'm not capable of buying a few INFI Team Gemini's or whatever each month, but one for my collection maybe. That law of diminishing returns is kind of relative.

It is nice when that $400 knife can be dumped for more than you paid, even used.
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  #56  
Old 09-12-2017, 8:41 PM
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Just google the law of diminishing returns and there's the answer to your question
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  #57  
Old 09-13-2017, 4:26 AM
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Some of the best knives ever made after looking at price, quality of materials, manufacturing process, aesthetics and engineered design were from production USA Knife companies of the 20th century that made their product with US labor in this country. Most unfortunately are gone or have been bought out with manufacturing and sourced materials moved overseas.

So to answer the question subjectively IMO No.

All the esoteric metals and other materials not to mention many long hours of customization don't actual get you a "better" or more functional knife.

Pretty to look at with bragging rights yes. Show me any customized multi $K knife and I guarantee There is a USA made production knife from any decade in the last Century that can match it and probably out last it for functionality and performance.

And yes I own some of those $K customized safe Queens.

Last edited by FatCity67; 09-13-2017 at 4:37 AM..
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  #58  
Old 09-13-2017, 9:32 AM
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Originally Posted by FatCity67 View Post
So to answer the question subjectively IMO No.

All the esoteric metals and other materials not to mention many long hours of customization don't actual get you a "better" or more functional knife.

Pretty to look at with bragging rights yes. Show me any customized multi $K knife and I guarantee There is a USA made production knife from any decade in the last Century that can match it and probably out last it for functionality and performance.

I think if you take a piece of the best steel for what you want to use it for and then give it the best possible heat treat and grind it the exact way you need it to perform your tasks... you don't have to have the hundreds to thousand dollars worth of labor to polish, shine, dehorn, etc... or the exotic materials. It looks pretty, but not absolutely needed for function. Whether you want it for looks, status, collecting, uniqueness, etc... that's up to the user or collector. Sometimes the only competition to a fancy blade of the best materials is a bargain blade of the best materials by the same maker IMHO. That's what the Combat Grade and Battle Grade blades are about with the BUSSE Combat brand, and what Scrap Yard and Swamp Rat brands are about for that matter. The difference is materials to some small extent, but mostly labor.

A seemingly utilitarian blade like a Swamp Rat Taliwhacker LE is relatively expensive because the blade is not left ROUGH then powder coated. It is hand polished. Labor and expert attention is expensive. Custom shop stuff that runs $1000+ is because of the labor and attention - craftsmanship.

Not real hard to understand for a gun guy. Just look at 1911's. You don't need a Wilson or Nighthawk of SA PRO to hit a target 10 yards away. It is still just a hand gun.

Last edited by crufflers; 09-13-2017 at 9:48 AM..
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  #59  
Old 09-15-2017, 1:18 PM
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It all depends on what the knife is going to be used for. Pocket carry, self defense, kitchen work, meat cutting, animal skinning, opening boxes?

The best tools for each job vary, and so does the price.

Ask a butcher which knife brand they use and why. A lot of them use Forschner, which are stamped steel blades and not very expensive. But they use them for a reason.

Have you ever skinned a large animal? Edge retention is a big factor there, as well as ease of re-sharpening.

I've owned my Henckels 4 Star kitchen knives for about 19 years. They have been professionally sharpened only one time during that entire period. I've maintained the edge myself, until I finally needed the edges redone in a way that I couldn't. Now I fully expect them to last me another 20 years or so.
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  #60  
Old 09-15-2017, 3:22 PM
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My only expensive knives are titanium because they don't rust and are great for diving, my EDC is a folding buck throwaway, butchering knives are some custom pieces my Father made and plain old carbon steel, carbon steel is great and hold an edge, just have to maintain them.

I do have an Esse 5 but prefer an axe when camping. Fishing is a Finland made knife with a lot of bend.
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  #61  
Old 09-15-2017, 3:29 PM
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Depends, You can look for the type of steel you want then choose whatever knife uses it..

However, I am pretty abusive toward my knives and use them for things they should not be used for...cheap knives have broken or worn out quite fast on me.

My Benchmade 940 has held up very well, I especially think the axis lock is worth paying for.

My favorite cheap knives are Kershaw
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  #62  
Old 09-18-2017, 2:00 PM
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Originally Posted by crufflers View Post


Carrying this one today. Honestly besides the steel, it is a fantastic knife for the $25-$35 price. Action and detent are perfect for the Wave feature, great G10 on both sides. It is smooth as silk. Model 6044TBLK CQC-8K chisel grind.
Based on your recommendation, I picked up one off of Amazon. Neat knife, worth it just to be able to play around with the wave feature. This is my first wave knife. Said feature works fine, but I wonder how long my jean pockets will last.

Thanks!

-- Michael
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  #63  
Old 09-18-2017, 2:24 PM
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Based on your recommendation, I picked up one off of Amazon. Neat knife, worth it just to be able to play around with the wave feature. This is my first wave knife. Said feature works fine, but I wonder how long my jean pockets will last.

Thanks!

-- Michael
Enjoy ! Wave opening is pretty neat and definitely fast with the right pockets.
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  #64  
Old 09-29-2017, 3:24 AM
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I was out shooting pigs with a guy who was sure he was smarter than anybody else in the world. He couldn't resist telling me how much smarter than me he was, because he carried a $45 knife that would do anything my $180 knife would do. He was so smug!!!

That night we murdered a bunch of big piggies that, like most pigs in that area, had been rolling around in mud. The deal we had with the property owner was we had to gut and break down everything we shot and deliver the meat to the local animal shelter, which boiled it and fed it to the inmates. Or so they said.

We divided the dead swine into two piles, one for him and one for me. Within an hour of cutting through muddy hides and dense gristle plates, I was flying at 10,000 feet and he was trying to work with the functional equivalent of a butter knife.

I finished my share of the work and settled back to drink Irish whiskey and watch him struggle like a cave man trying to build a computer with his glorified box cutter.

Finally, "Hey, Khromo. Can I borrow your knife? I must have forgotten to sharpen mine."

And vengeance was mine!!!

"Are you kidding me?!?! Do you remember all the stupid crap you said this morning about that knife?!?! You need to go **** your mama!!! You child molester!!! ^%$$%^& %%^&*&%$##$ *&^ 0*(&^%%!!!"

And then I got really nasty!!!

The moral of the story is, a cheap knife is fine for cutting a few boxes open here and there, cutting string and such, and if you have the time you may be able to get it sharp enough to cut a little hair. But just a little.

Cutting a few boxes open can be done with a scrap of sheet metal. Dress out a few muddy pigs and that will start to reveal the difference. Because there is, indeed, a difference.

Use whatever works for you and your application. But don't be too proud of yourself, because that tends to end badly!
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  #65  
Old 09-29-2017, 8:57 AM
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The moral of the story is, a cheap knife is fine for cutting a few boxes open here and there, cutting string and such, and if you have the time you may be able to get it sharp enough to cut a little hair. But just a little.

Cutting a few boxes open can be done with a scrap of sheet metal. Dress out a few muddy pigs and that will start to reveal the difference. Because there is, indeed, a difference.
Yup, and I'll add that cutting boxes open is really just breaking tape... you could use a house key in a pinch. If you actually cut through cardboard with a knife it can reveal limits of cheap steel as well. Cardboard is like sandpaper. There's a huge difference between really breaking down boxes into confetti with something decent like a Spyderco PM2 in S30V or YOII in S90V compared to trying to get it done cheap with a Chinese Alphabet steel Tenacious or Thermite... IMHO.
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  #66  
Old 09-29-2017, 9:05 AM
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He couldn't resist telling me how much smarter than me he was, because he carried a $45 knife that would do anything my $180 knife would do.
So what knife were you using. What steel? What about his knife?
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  #67  
Old 09-29-2017, 8:47 PM
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These are pretty tough - REGULATORS!
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Old 09-30-2017, 11:09 AM
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I was using a drop point hunter made of M390. A buddy ground it for me, and gave me a sweet deal on it. I put the guard and handle scales on myself. I was shooting a .260 Rem.

He was using some mystery steel, in a tactically-inspired grip, bearing a brand none of us would recognize, but did I mention it only cost $40?!?!. When you don't know what kind of steel it is, you probably don't want to know! A real tent stake of a knife.

In fairness, the swine were absolutely caked with mud, and it was one of the toughest tests I'd ever put a blade to. It was pretty hot weather and I was told the pigs wallowed a few times a day so they could keep cool and destroy more crops. They were pretty formidable critters.
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Last edited by Khromo; 09-30-2017 at 2:05 PM..
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  #69  
Old 09-30-2017, 12:53 PM
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at least for me on the job knife is a cheap box cutter. does the job better than any other knofe i have tried.
--yes cheap to couple - three bills for the knife tested--

no fancy knife has been able to cut the strap on the delivery hose close to how easley the box cutter does. ( plastic wire tie 1/4 W X 3/8 T ).

but i do carry another knife for none job needs. but not a over priced, or fancy one.
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Old 09-30-2017, 6:01 PM
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I never use a knife to cut thick straps or ties that I should use snips or dikes to cut easily and precisely - too dangerous to use a blade sometimes IMHO.
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  #71  
Old 09-30-2017, 8:04 PM
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I did not take much of an interest in knives until about 4 years ago, when a friend, client and former Navy SEAL insisted that I use better quality knives. He gave me a Spyderco Paramilitary II. Before being given the PMII, I used mostly Buck knives. As a kid I was glad to have any knife. Back then Buck knives were the ones we wanted. I bought a #119 Buck in 1973 for around $30 (it now retails for around $95). We took our knives on camping, fishing and hunting trips, and we would sit around whittling on sticks, and they never let us down. They would get dull, but we would sharpen them, and they never failed us. We never abused our knives by using them as pry bars. The task of splitting wood by using a knife like a baton, is a new use of a knife. As Boy Scouts, we were taught that hatchet or ax was more of an appropriate use in splitting wood.

In using my Spyderco PMII, I am impressed with it and it is a much better quality knife than what I used to carry. Now, that same friend is trying to get me to buy a Chris Reeve Large Sebenza for around $400. Even if he gave me one, I am not going to carry a $400 knife. I believe my PMII will serve me well for the foreseeable future.
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Old 10-01-2017, 3:23 AM
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These are pretty tough - REGULATORS!
Love the blades but hate the choil..........
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  #73  
Old 10-01-2017, 1:18 PM
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Love the blades but hate the choil..........
I like the way those choke up with the guard. Round or modified angled. They do make no choil / sharpening choil versions.





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Old 10-01-2017, 3:10 PM
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I like Winkler knives because they're some of the toughest knives I've used and 100% American made.

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Old 10-01-2017, 4:15 PM
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I like Winkler knives because they're some of the toughest knives I've used and 100% American made.

Felt lined kydex. So the scarred and scratched Black OPS blade is nice and comfy sleeping in its home... after slicing through Honda Civics like a light saber

Winkler does use good steels unlike a lot of legendary makers. 5160 and 52100 are good. Budget BUSSE is 52100 with a superior heat treat (SR101 steel). All the awesome knives that Ted Frizzel puts out (Mineral Mountain Hatchet Works / MMHW) are pro-treated 5160 with perfect grinds and sharpening.
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Old 10-01-2017, 5:14 PM
Dribear Dribear is offline
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Benchmade, Sog, etc. are nice. But if you don't have the funds or want to pay the premium then it is not necessary.
I currently carry a Kershaw Blur. Was carrying a Kershaw Clash, bought when I misplaced my Blur.
They are nice knives, Blur is over a decade old, never been sharpened, but might need to be soon. Kershaw has amazing customer service.
On my Blur the tiny screws for the clip would loosen up over time, probably from partially getting the clip caught on things. And somehow the main screw that keeps the knife together and tension on the torsion spring loosened and went missing. I contacted Kershaw and they sent me new clip, and all the screws I needed and even a small packet of lube. FOC, no money even for shipping.

The Clash and some others are only about $27+/- on Amazon
I believe that the Blur is approx $45 meow.
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  #77  
Old 10-01-2017, 5:18 PM
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Guns and guitars Guns and guitars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
Felt lined kydex. So the scarred and scratched Black OPS blade is nice and comfy sleeping in its home... after slicing through Honda Civics like a light saber

.
I just sent my field knife and blue ridge hunter back to them to have him sharpen them to utter razor like sharpness.
Daniel is such a nice guy, I send them once a year prior to hunting season with return shipping paid and he always sends em back on his own dime within 3-4 days.
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  #78  
Old 10-01-2017, 5:55 PM
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HooYah HooYah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
Felt lined kydex. So the scarred and scratched Black OPS blade is nice and comfy sleeping in its home... after slicing through Honda Civics like a light saber

Winkler does use good steels unlike a lot of legendary makers. 5160 and 52100 are good. Budget BUSSE is 52100 with a superior heat treat (SR101 steel). All the awesome knives that Ted Frizzel puts out (Mineral Mountain Hatchet Works / MMHW) are pro-treated 5160 with perfect grinds and sharpening.
I feel that Winkler knives are actually a good value for what you pay. You could spend almost $9k for a Mad Dog SEAL ATAK ( https://www.amazon.com/Mad-Dog-SEAL-.../dp/B01GIOU3SU ) and believe me it's not 22x better than the Winkler belt knife.
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Old 10-01-2017, 5:59 PM
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crufflers crufflers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooYah View Post
I feel that Winkler knives are actually a good value for what you pay. You could spend almost $9k for a Mad Dog SEAL ATAK ( https://www.amazon.com/Mad-Dog-SEAL-.../dp/B01GIOU3SU ) and believe me it's not 22x better than the Winkler belt knife.
They do look Affordable. I dunno if I'd drop a grand on a hawk, but some of the knives look great.
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Old 10-01-2017, 6:06 PM
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crufflers crufflers is offline
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Originally Posted by HooYah View Post
You could spend almost $9k for a Mad Dog SEAL ATAK ( https://www.amazon.com/Mad-Dog-SEAL-.../dp/B01GIOU3SU ) and believe me it's not 22x better than the Winkler belt knife.
Hahahahah... wow. That's crazy. Never heard of her, but I'm sure it is a really hyped and legendary blade beyond the MIL SPEC, heh.

I'd definitely rather have 40 SWAMP RAT TALIWHACKER LE's with TIE TACTICAL or BUY BROWN kydex. OR maybe only a dozen and dozen Military Regulators with SPEC OPS and a few cases of ammo.
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