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  #1  
Old 09-15-2012, 10:35 PM
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Default AR15 - Unable to extract round with CH.

Hello fellow cal gunners. After a few google searches I haven't found the solution to my problem so I guess I'll come here. Hope the seasoned reloaders could help me out.

I have an AR-15 BCM upper/bolt that will sometimes eat up a round and won't spit it out. Meaning I'll load the mag, charge it and click... fail to fire. When the charging handle is pulled back, I noticed that it was stuck. After yanking on the charging handle for awhile, the round finally popped out, no abnormal scratches on the round either.

This would only happen with my reloads, obviously I'm screwing something up if swapping out uppers, bolts and mags still doesn't fix it and cycling factory rounds goes through it like butter.

I hope that someone here has experienced this or knows how to fix this. Currently I'm reloading with mixed brass, mostly LC and 223 PMC pick ups. Using Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT.

Decap, clean, waxed and sized in an RCBS full length sizer die thats set to meet the shell plate, trimmed to 1.75 +/- .003 (however i noticed this happening on brass trimmed to 1.742 all the way to 1.758), chamfer and deburr, bullet seated to COL of 2.200 in a RCBS seating die.

If you take all of the jammed rounds that were forcibly ejected and reload them all into the same mag or different mag and cycle them again, some get stuck and some will cycle no problem. Do it a 3rd time and they'll all cycle fine.

This has actually been happening for awhile, I've just been jamming a plastic piece between the bolt and upper - giving it enough leverage to pull the round out with the CH.

What am I doing wrong? Besides waiting a year to ask this question .

Thanks in advance!
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  #2  
Old 09-15-2012, 11:16 PM
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Are you checking your headspace?
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  #3  
Old 09-15-2012, 11:32 PM
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You might want to look into a case gauge...
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4...TCH-CASE-GAUGE

Have you tried your reloads in a different upper?

Make sure the die is setup correct, after you meet the shell plate, lower than ram and turn it an additional 1/8 to 1/4 turn so the press cams over with some resistance.

If all the steps in your reloading process are correct, you might actually benefit from some small base dies...


I would wait for some of the more experienced reloaders chime in… I’m still new to the process.
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Old 09-16-2012, 4:53 AM
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Check to make sure you are not buckling the shoulder when you are crimping. Having the seating/crimping die turned in too far will cause this.

Look for slight (or not so slight) mushroom shaped case shoulders or measure with calipers

where did you get the brass for your reloads? fired from your rifle? new? new to you?

Last edited by the led farmer; 09-16-2012 at 5:17 AM..
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  #5  
Old 09-16-2012, 5:10 AM
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Quote:
RCBS full length sizer die thats set to meet the shell plate,
The die should not just meet the plate it should squash the shell plate. It is called cam over. This is when the die is about a 1/4 to 1/2 turn past meet. This will take all the slack out of the linkage and parts. You are resizing the rounds in your chamber when you rechamber after sticking.
Lake City once fired brass could have been fired in full auto mode in a military chamber. It will be oversized near the base. You may need a Small Base die. You are close. Close does not work every time. Get a good case gauge.

Last edited by BSlacker; 09-16-2012 at 5:35 AM..
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  #6  
Old 09-16-2012, 7:40 AM
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Head space - thats probably it. I haven't been checking that. I'll def look into one, Extremex did provide me with a decent looking one... plus its red, it'll match my press! My only concern is the lack of reviews on it. JP does push out some quality rifles though.

My sizer die is about 1/8th past the point of contact. I should have mentioned that earlier, sorry about that!

I didn't think there was enough force after the re chamber to actually reform the brass. Majority of the LC brass were new (bought online, fired from my rifle and collected), however I probably picked up a few extras at the range... actually I know I did because the last time I counted, I'm 700 up from the initial 1k that I bought . Showing up early to the range has its perks =]

I'll call around asking for a head space gauge but I highly doubt any stores around here will have any. This seems like something I should have bought awhile back - I'd like to try this before purchasing small base dies.

Thanks for all your help! I'll check back in after I figure it out - if anyone cares.
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  #7  
Old 09-16-2012, 7:51 AM
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The point of contact with no shell in it is one thing. The press has some play in it. Push a piece of brass into the die and you will probably see light between the shellholder and the die with the ram fully raised. I had this exact issue, and that was the problem. Another 1/4 turn of the die, and the problem was resolved. You really don't need a headspace gauge, your chamber is a great one, and your chamber right now is telling you your headspace is too long.

Step one, turn your die in another 1/4 turn, make sure you actuate the press fully, and try one of those. I'd bet it fixes the issue
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Old 09-16-2012, 7:54 AM
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Wow - that would make it a full half turn from what I'm already at now. But hey, I'm up for anything.... as soon as I get some coffee.

Thanks for the tip JT, will def try it out.
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Old 09-16-2012, 8:46 AM
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Personally I wouldn't load anything else before getting the headspace gauge. Since you are shooting the rounds out of an ar look into the small base sizing die. But definently get the headspace gauge first. They are like 15 bucks on eBay or midwayusa
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  #10  
Old 09-16-2012, 10:42 AM
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Yep, same thing happened to me when I wasn't sizing the cases enough.

You can use your upper as a gauge. Clean the chamber, size the rounds, attempt to close the action on it. If it won't close, size them a bit more. Takes some time and finesse, but it works.
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Old 09-16-2012, 1:51 PM
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I had that issue and it was a dirty chamber... But most likely need to re-adjust the sizing die...
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:44 AM
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Another question to ask is why are you getting so many failures to fire?
Are your primers seated deeply enough so that it is at least flush with the case if not a couple of mils deeper?
If you are taking failed to fire cartridges and rechambering them with that floating firing pin (assuming the BCG you have has a free floating pin), you may be risking a slam fire with a preloaded and prestressed primer.

To measure headspace on a rimless cartridge, Get one of these.

I got this and bought a couple of headspace gauges, one for .308 and one for .223 because you can buy the headspace gauges separately, but you can't buy the overall length gauge inserts separately.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsrocket1 View Post
Another question to ask is why are you getting so many failures to fire?
I'm thinking that his headspace is so long that he's just a hair out of battery. Close enough to being in battery that the hammer will fall, but not set off the primer. I'm betting that this issue will disappear when he screws his die in enough that light can't be seen between the shell holder and the die with a shell in them.

When I had this issue I was 0.002-0.003 too long. My gun fired and functioned fine, but you couldn't manually clear it. A little turn of the die, and two years later, all my ammo functions great.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:54 AM
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In the meantime while you wait the arrival of your case gage, readjust your sizing die and resize 5-6 cases. See if all the resized cases will "drop in" the chamber of your upper. They should drop right in with a "ker-plunk" sound. If they stop in the last 1/8 inch or so, you probably need small base dies. My DPMS barrel has a tight chamber requiring the SB dies and I had similar issues you do.
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Old 09-17-2012, 1:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT1989 View Post
I'm thinking that his headspace is so long that he's just a hair out of battery. Close enough to being in battery that the hammer will fall, but not set off the primer. I'm betting that this issue will disappear when he screws his die in enough that light can't be seen between the shell holder and the die with a shell in them.

When I had this issue I was 0.002-0.003 too long. My gun fired and functioned fine, but you couldn't manually clear it. A little turn of the die, and two years later, all my ammo functions great.
Yeah, the bolt doesn't go fully into battery which means the firing pin can't reach the primer. OP is probably resizing the case slightly every time he chambers the round, which explains why it gets easier to extract (and eventually fires) the more times it is chambered.
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Old 10-02-2012, 5:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
You might want to look into a case gauge...
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4...TCH-CASE-GAUGE

Have you tried your reloads in a different upper?

Make sure the die is setup correct, after you meet the shell plate, lower than ram and turn it an additional 1/8 to 1/4 turn so the press cams over with some resistance.

If all the steps in your reloading process are correct, you might actually benefit from some small base dies...


I would wait for some of the more experienced reloaders chime in… I’m still new to the process.
Once used, a case gauge will become a necessity.
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  #17  
Old 10-03-2012, 11:54 AM
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+1 on buckling the shoulder.
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2012, 2:58 PM
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2 months later...

Case gauge came in and almost none of my rounds were fitting. As suggested, adjusted the de-priming / resize die 1/8th of a turn until they did fit. AR cycles great now. Once in awhile I'll get 1 or 2 out of 50 or so that won't slide into the gauge, which is a HUGE improvement. Thanks again guys!

However now that I was able to sneak a few bucks away from my "financial adviser" and bought a chrony. I've noticed low velocity compare to the load data in books. Most likely due to barrel length maybe. Time to start another thread when I get the chance.

Thanks again!
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  #19  
Old 12-03-2012, 3:18 PM
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what is your trim length?
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Old 12-03-2012, 3:52 PM
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1.750"

This trusty manual says max case trim at 1.760"
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Old 12-03-2012, 9:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkga14 View Post
1.750"

This trusty manual says max case trim at 1.760"
are they adequately debured does the mouth catch a fingernail when you slide it up from the rim to the bullet

could you bullets be contacting the rifling (seat depth)
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