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California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here. |
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#1
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Me vs 1911 & Tight Barrel Nut/Vicious Recoil Spring & Plug
I am wits end!!! I have hardly used my Dan Wesson Pointman 7 1911 in 45ACP (35 rounds), but decided to take it apart to clean since it had been sitting a while and the directions say to clean it before shooting anyway (oops).
I managed to get it apart, but wrestling with the very tight barrel bushing, very strong recoil spring, and recoil spring plug, was an absolute nightmare. If I thought that was bad, trying to reassemble these parts is even worse. I have tried for an hour and get this done (and haven't). I have watched Your Tube videos of how people do this with little effort, but the recoil spring in those videos appears weaker than mine. The barrel bushings in the videos are often turned by hand. Wrench only and a potent spring on my gun. I managed to get it the barrel bushing out and the gun apart with the help of the Thumb Buddy. http://www.slip2000.com/slip2000_thumbbuddy.php Complicating assembly (other than the tight barrel bushing and vicious spring) is that the recoil spring plug hangs up on something about 1/8" shy of seating fully. Trying to wiggle it around while containing the potent spring, holding the gun, and using a wrench, is well, impossible. I gave up on the Thumb Buddy as it was another thing to hold, instead using some leather gloves to protect my fingers or thumb against the recoil spring plug. The pain of that ended my efforts prematurely. The entire arrangement is diabolical. I dread having to clean this thing again, but unless I get it back together, there won't be a next time. Ideas on how to best approach this? Phil |
#2
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do you have the safety on, when you are doing this, it keeps the slide from moving.
and a pic or two of the muzzle end might help
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That may be a CG first! Spyder "You guys need to take more drugs. Then you can TASTE the sound, and HEAR the light!" |
#3
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This is the method I've used for many years. Alchemy Custom happened to do a very good video of the same method to help people out with the tight Les Baers. It works extremely well on tight fitted 1911's and preserves the barrel to bushing fit. I think you'll see it's a much better way to do it on your tight DW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJhPari7dpc
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"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." "What we get away with isn't usually the same as what's good for us" "An extended slide stop is the second most useless part you can put on a 1911" "While Ruger DA revolvers may be built like a tank, they have the aesthetics of one also, although I suppose there are a few tanks which I owe an apology to for that remark" Last edited by redcliff; 01-26-2013 at 6:53 PM.. |
#4
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A lot of Dan Wesson's have "tight" bushings and until they've been turned a few times, they can be a real be-otch to remove. |
#5
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Do what the video Redcliff suggested says to do.
You don't take apart a high end 1911 with a bushing wrench, it just loosens them up. Why manufacturers include them is a mystery to me... I strip all my 1911's with the method posted above. -Freq |
#6
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Thanks, I will try the video method. This looks a lot less troublesome!
I am not so happy that turning the barrel bushing is leaving a a light circular scratch or wear mark on the frame under where the half-moon part of the bushing is when it turned clockwise (looking at muzzle). Easy to see on the stainless bead blasted finish. I find no burrs on the bushing, but might be something on lug recess inside slide that I can not see, forcing a tight fit against against the face of the frame. Or maybe this kind of wear is normal when servicing the gun. ??? Phil |
#7
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...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale |
#8
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I didn't even know about the bushing wrench...
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I don't always save the world, but when I do, it's in 24 hours or less... |
#9
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meh
Yeah I do my Kimber differantly than that.
1st thing I do is make sure the magazines dropped and the chambers empty 2nd is push down on the spring plug and turn the bushing using the Magazine tab or the widgit. Then I pull the spring and spring plug out. 3rd is to move the slide to the disasembly notch and pull that part out. 4th pull the slide off with the barrel and recoil guide rod still inside, pull the guide rod out and then the barrel. 5th I then turn the bushing clounter clockwise half a turn and take the bushing off. 6th Slide the barrel out the front of the slide. To assemble: I put on the bushing, then I put the barrel in the slide then the guide rod. Put the top of the slide on the weapon lining up the hole to put in the slide stop. Then I put the plug on the spring and push down with the widgit or a magazinew tab till it catches the bushing enough to hold it. I then push the spring and spring plug down far enough to turn the bushing.
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"Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." George Orwell http://www.AnySoldier.com |
#10
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Once a person gets used to the method in the video theres no reason to go back to the g.i. way.
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"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." "What we get away with isn't usually the same as what's good for us" "An extended slide stop is the second most useless part you can put on a 1911" "While Ruger DA revolvers may be built like a tank, they have the aesthetics of one also, although I suppose there are a few tanks which I owe an apology to for that remark" |
#11
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ysoI5Kw5Cg Is how I do it. Though it seems some 1911's have bull barrels and require the use of a take down tool
From the kimber manual DISASSEMBLY (FIELD STRIPPING) This product should be cleaned after every use and when exposed to dirt, sand, etc. When not in use, clean at least twice per year. 1. With the pistol unloaded, the magazine removed and the hammer down, depress the recoil spring plug, with the supplied wrench, and turn the barrel bushing clockwise, towards the right side of the pistol until the recoil spring plug and recoil spring are free. Be careful, the recoil spring and plug are under tension and can fly out with substantial force. 2. Ease out recoil spring and plug. If recoil spring does not come out easily, remove plug and leave the spring for step 6. The open end of the recoil spring goes into the plug. 3. Cock the hammer and push the slide rearward until the semi-circular tab on the back of the slide stop aligns with the semi-circular disassembly notch in the bottom of the slide. 4. Push inward on the end of the slide stop shaft on the right side of the pistol and remove the slide stop from the left side. 5. Slide the slide assembly forward off the frame. 6. Remove the recoil spring through the opening at the front of the slide. 7. Turn the barrel bushing counterclockwise until the lug aligns with the opening andremove the bushing from the front of the slide. 8. Remove the full length recoil spring guide from the bottom of the slide by rotating it away from the barrel and withdrawing it towards the rear of the slide. The barrel link can get in the way of removal. To stop this, hold the slide inverted and rotate the link to its full forward position. The guide rod can now be lifted over the link. Tip the barrel link forward to clear the recoil spring tunnel. Then pull the barrel forward clear of the slide. The pistol is now disassembled for cleaning purposes (field stripped).
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"Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." George Orwell http://www.AnySoldier.com Last edited by negolien; 01-27-2013 at 9:55 AM.. |
#12
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The recoil spring/guide rod are long enough that the angle formed by trying to insert as shown in the video causes the assembly to hit the front part of the slide and the barrel link area. The problem is rod itself. It is MUCH longer than the rod shown in the video. It is 3.775" long, tip to tip, or the length of about 19 - 20 recoil spring coils. In the video, their short guide rod covers about 7 coils. I can't even fit it in the slide using the method in the video, without the spring. The guide rod goes in fine, IF the recoil spring plug is not there. No wonder the instructions from Dan Wesson are to use the wrench to remove parts from the outside. This is so much of a fight, it is damn near a deal killer for me. It should not be anywhere near this hard to take apart a gun and clean. Phil |
#13
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Or, you could simply remove the barrel, reinstall the bushing, and create artificial wear by taking the bushing wrench and simply turning the bushing from left to right until the tension is slightly relieved. |
#14
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That method didn't work on my Custom II either. I tried it but had to put the slide stop back in and do it the normal way.
I found this on a web search but this is for the bull barrel. It's about halfway down the page. As a side note I found the barrel wrench to be a PoS lol. I find it much easier to use the tab on a Magazine. http://www.gun-forums.com/printthread.php?t=2088
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"Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." George Orwell http://www.AnySoldier.com Last edited by negolien; 01-27-2013 at 10:17 AM.. |
#15
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installed EGW bushing/plug on my 1911 and ran into the same problem. It was tight! removing the slide and working the bushing for a few mins solved the problem. i just twisted it left/right until it loosen up to the point i no longer needed the bushing tool to twist it.
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#16
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The good news is that you can get rid of that FLGR without consequence. (DW does not use a FLGR on their Valor model or CBOB's) You could either obtain replacement parts from DW or from a supplier like Ed Brown or Wilson. I only use FLGR's on bull barrel 1911's that don't allow the use of a standard bushing. Edit: did some more research. Some people claim that the issue with disassembly on the Pm7 is caused by the slide being slightly retracted while you try to depress the guide rod plug and turn the bushing. Using the safety to limit slide travel may still allow enough retraction to cause the guide rod to protrude too far forward. Having the slide removed by popping the slide stop out first should prevent that from happening or just ensure the slide is fully forward while trying to disassemble. Some people shorten their stock PM7 guide rod slightly and find it much easier to disassemble.
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"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." "What we get away with isn't usually the same as what's good for us" "An extended slide stop is the second most useless part you can put on a 1911" "While Ruger DA revolvers may be built like a tank, they have the aesthetics of one also, although I suppose there are a few tanks which I owe an apology to for that remark" Last edited by redcliff; 01-27-2013 at 10:52 AM.. |
#17
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This is why you don't really cut the barrel flush with the face of the bushing...the barrel is pointed at a downward angle
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...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale |
#18
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UPDATE: The reason the plug was stopping 1/8" short was because I had the spring on backwards (loose fitting end over guide rod). I put the tight fitting end over the guide rod and and the plug depresses freely. Stupid on my part not making note of the fit when I took it apart. Still hard to hold down and apply a wrench, but did manage to do it. I will be happy when there is some wear and I can turn the barrel bushing by hand. Phil Last edited by Phil3; 01-27-2013 at 1:52 PM.. |
#19
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I' am a little confused by the above. You stated that you had not disassemled the weapon before. Which means DW put the spring in backwards. I find that hard to believe but I guess anything is possible..The manuals for DW and LG do say to wait and put a couple of hundred rounds down range before stripping it to allow some wear.
Like I said earlier. I tried the non-gi way for my Custom II and although I could get the slide off without to much trouble. I wasn't able to get the internals of the upper to come out once the slide was off the frame.
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"Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." George Orwell http://www.AnySoldier.com Last edited by negolien; 01-27-2013 at 5:17 PM.. Reason: spelling |
#20
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Quote:
__________________
...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale |
#21
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That video is how I take most of them apart.
__________________
There are 3 kinds of people in this world. The wise, learn from the mistakes of others. The smart, learn from their own mistakes. The others, well......they just never learn. "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, Give Me Liberty, Or Give Me Death!" Patrick Henry. |
#22
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__________________
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." "What we get away with isn't usually the same as what's good for us" "An extended slide stop is the second most useless part you can put on a 1911" "While Ruger DA revolvers may be built like a tank, they have the aesthetics of one also, although I suppose there are a few tanks which I owe an apology to for that remark" Last edited by redcliff; 01-28-2013 at 7:34 AM.. |
#23
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Meh
Ok so let me see if I have this straight. The recomended way to break it down is not good for the weapon but jamming a screwdriver under the assembly and prying it out so it shoots across the room is? Think I will just contuinue to do it the GI way. If it's worked for over 100 years it must be ok for my non Pro-Competition Kimber.
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"Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." George Orwell http://www.AnySoldier.com |
#24
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Use whatever method you want on your Kimber. But for tight fitted 1911's with standard recoil systems the video shows the best way. I'm well past the age where I try to make horses drink after leading them to water. If they prefer a different stream thats fine.
__________________
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." "What we get away with isn't usually the same as what's good for us" "An extended slide stop is the second most useless part you can put on a 1911" "While Ruger DA revolvers may be built like a tank, they have the aesthetics of one also, although I suppose there are a few tanks which I owe an apology to for that remark" Last edited by redcliff; 01-28-2013 at 8:40 AM.. |
#25
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[QUOTE=negolien;10340434]I' am a little confused by the above. You stated that you had not disassemled the weapon before. Which means DW put the spring in backwards. I find that hard to believe but I guess anything is possible..The manuals for DW and LG do say to wait and put a couple of hundred rounds down range before stripping it to allow some wear.QUOTE]
I said, "Stupid on my part not making note of the fit when I took it apart...", meaning DW has it on right, but I did not make note of that when taking it apart and put it back together with the spring reversed. My DW manual specifically says to clean and lubricate under differents sets of circumstances, the first being, "Before firing your DAN WESSON FIREARMS for the first time". That is on page 10 of my manual. I don't find anything about a couple of hundred rounds to allow some wear. Phil |
#26
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I thought the emoticon made it clear...or at least the impaling in the wall comment...maybe I should have used a funnier one...like or I too have long ago stopped trying to make folks drink when they are resistant...all we can do is offer the path
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...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale |
#27
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get yourself a dawson tooless guide rod ...
http://youtu.be/FyKIm3Ol4lU I run this in my competition guns
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USPSA# TY72824 = Grand Master of Inconsistency |
#28
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#29
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Phil |
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