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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 02-14-2018, 9:06 AM
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Default Kaiser Permanente "Firearms-Dangerous Weapons and Contraband"

I attached a copy of the Kaiser Permanente "Firearms-Dangerous Weapons and Contraband" policy.

It was given to me by a nurse supervisor yesterday in Elk Grove.

I didn't' know Kaiser had a no firearms policy, that's no big deal, it's pretty common in California.

This policy looks to me like it might cause their staff some grief if they have a supervisor that follows this policy. The way I read this, (which may not be correct) is that under section 5.2 they are telling the supervisor to secure the contraband. 5.2.1 requests "that the patient turn the weapon/contraband in for safekeeping.".

The nurse I talked to admitted she has no experience with guns. I think this policy is dangerous, based on my experience yesterday.

Thoughts?
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Old 02-14-2018, 9:32 AM
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Hmmm. The admins of a place full of scalpels, drills, saws etc. thinks excluding guns will make it a safe workplace.
A person with a bic pen and an attitude could wreak major havoc in a hospital before any help arrived.
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Old 02-14-2018, 9:47 AM
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I wouldn't want patients who are potentially under the effects of various drugs to be armed. If a patient does bring in a gun, it would be a bad idea and a huge liability to hand it over to a nurse who has no experience with guns. I suppose it would work if trained security people handle everything. Still a liability for the hospital, though, to have custody of expensive and dangerous weapons.
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Old 02-14-2018, 9:55 AM
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Usually KP's will have a weapons safe in the ED.
Knives and all that are handled by security but if I recall correctly firearms are handled by LEO's.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:01 AM
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From what my daughter tells me, as she is a critical care nurse in S. Cal, they call security and it is dealt with that way. They don't take possession of fire arms in the hospital. Now it seems like the policy that was attached sees that differently. I would never turn over my fire arm to a non-police officer.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:05 AM
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1.2 Persons known or found to have weapons will be asked to surrender the weapon to the Security Department for safekeeping.

I think the nurse would ask Security to take the gun.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:05 AM
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Are we talking emergency situation here? If visiting, the old "concealed means concealed" thing. If I have an appointment that would require disrobing, then it stays locked up in car safe or home. If emergency, it's kinda out of your control, hopefully security or LEO will take care of it. I just hope that if security handles it, they have some experience with something other than a taser.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:31 AM
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The nurse really had no more answers about the policy than we will come up with. It’s a mess
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:32 AM
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Default Kaiser Permanente "Firearms-Dangerous Weapons and Contraband"

I went in to ER one time at Kaiser. I had two knives and pepper spray on me. They were never taken and I spent three days in the hospital. This was in March of last year. Maybe it was because I am an old man.
Forgot to say that when I was released the nurse was somewhat surprised that I still had the knives & spray. I was in for a Gall Bladder attack.

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Old 02-14-2018, 12:12 PM
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If I go to the Kaiser Pharmacy, I carry. If I'm going to see my Dr, I don't. You never know when they are going to ask you take off your shirt or drop trow. I just lock it up in my safe in the car.
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Old 02-14-2018, 1:46 PM
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One of the few places I disarm before I go. I never know if the doctor is going to ask me to remove my shirt and I don't want to have to explain.
The sign has no legal enforcement in CA but they could ask you to leave.
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Old 02-14-2018, 1:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
I wouldn't want patients who are potentially under the effects of various drugs to be armed. If a patient does bring in a gun, it would be a bad idea and a huge liability to hand it over to a nurse who has no experience with guns. I suppose it would work if trained security people handle everything. Still a liability for the hospital, though, to have custody of expensive and dangerous weapons.
Policies prevent potentially dangerous people from having firearms and other weapons.
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Old 02-14-2018, 2:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philobeddoe View Post
Policies prevent potentially dangerous people from having firearms and other weapons.
How so?
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Old 02-14-2018, 3:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FresnoRob View Post
One of the few places I disarm before I go. I never know if the doctor is going to ask me to remove my shirt and I don't want to have to explain.
The sign has no legal enforcement in CA but they could ask you to leave.
I don't disarm there at the pharmacy or giving labs or anything like that, but yes if I am seeing the doc I lock it up in the car.
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Old 02-14-2018, 4:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philobeddoe View Post
Policies prevent potentially dangerous people from having firearms and other weapons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by baggss View Post
How so?
I believe he/she is being facetious.
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Old 02-14-2018, 4:38 PM
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Section 5.2 is clear. The Security folks get the weapon, not the nurse.
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Old 02-14-2018, 5:09 PM
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I have run into a pt with a gun only a couple of times in 25+ years. Lots of knives, scissors, and other sharp objects. Pepper spray a few times. Both pts with guns were left at their home. The other stuff gets taken by security for safe keeping until they leave.
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Old 02-14-2018, 5:32 PM
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For over 10 years I've carryied to visit my doctor, nurse practitioner, or physical therapist at Kaiser Santa Clara, Roseville, San Leandro, and Folsom. Most have either seen the pistol grip or the holster during an exam. All asked if I was LEO, and I said no; however, I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon in the State of California. No more questions, no security, no problems.
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:40 PM
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My son works in a medical center. The concern is that patients can become violent and suicidal for many reasons; learning of a serious condition, unusual reaction to medication, hallucinations, depressions, you name it.
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Old 02-15-2018, 3:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
I wouldn't want patients who are potentially under the effects of various drugs to be armed. If a patient does bring in a gun, it would be a bad idea and a huge liability to hand it over to a nurse who has no experience with guns. I suppose it would work if trained security people handle everything. Still a liability for the hospital, though, to have custody of expensive and dangerous weapons.
Any firearms notifications go to security but of course if the patient is a trauma patient the nurses will have to confiscate the weapon asap. then security confiscates the firearms from the staff. Depending on the legal status of the patient IE mental or not and the status of whether he or she has a CCW the weapon will either be returned to the patient at the end of their visit or turned over to law enforcement. Please if you have any questions regarding gun policy I urge you to contact site security for further clarification.
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Old 02-15-2018, 9:32 AM
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I stopped by a chiropractor in Bakersfield last week...my neck was killing me. It was my first visit.

Upon entering the room, he says, "Wallets, keys, phone, knife, & gun all go on the counter there."

No fuss, no muss.
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Old 02-15-2018, 9:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadstorm View Post
I stopped by a chiropractor in Bakersfield last week...my neck was killing me. It was my first visit.

Upon entering the room, he says, "Wallets, keys, phone, knife, & gun all go on the counter there."

No fuss, no muss.
Haven't had that experience myself, however, when/if I do the gun gets cleared before it leaves my hand.
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Old 02-15-2018, 1:59 PM
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Haven't had that experience myself, however, when/if I do the gun gets cleared before it leaves my hand.
Uh, OK...and if I were the doc I'd have you not manipulate the action at all in my office. Guess we'd be in a standoff of sorts.

I don't personally need to unholster in order to set my gun on the counter, and all mine are DA/SA or DAO anyway. YMMV.
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Old 02-15-2018, 2:22 PM
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Originally Posted by baggss View Post
If I go to the Kaiser Pharmacy, I carry. If I'm going to see my Dr, I don't. You never know when they are going to ask you take off your shirt or drop trow. I just lock it up in my safe in the car.
I follow this basic policy as well.
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Old 02-15-2018, 2:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Skip_Dog View Post
1.2 Persons known or found to have weapons will be asked to surrender the weapon to the Security Department for safekeeping.

I think the nurse would ask Security to take the gun.
Wonder if that applies to LEO's escorting detainees.
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Old 02-15-2018, 5:57 PM
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Kaiser had a policy in place when I went to the ER at Kaiser Kraemer in Anaheim a couple of years ago. I left work with extreme pain and my eye was swelling shut by the minute. I figured I'd be in and out with some antibiotic drops but the doctor looked at my medical history of severe head trauma and ordered a CT scan. After the scan the doctor admitted me into the hospital for observation.

The nurse came and asked me to count the money on my person and list the contents of my wallet. I had large shopping bag with the awards I was given at a ceremony earlier in the day. She asked me to list the items in the bag and asked if I had any weapons on me. When I responded, Yes I have a license to carry a handgun and I have one on my person she said, "OK, this is a first for me, I need to call security and ask them what I need to do." While waiting for security, she asked me why I didn't leave my weapons and bag in my car. I told her that i drive a pick-up without a trunk and with all the vehicle break-ins in that area, the safest place for my things is with me. Security came with a pelican case and a padlock. They asked me to unload my handgun and place it, my magazines, and pocket knife inside the case. They locked it and gave me a "weapons receipt." They told me to go to security when I am released to pick up my weapons.

The following day, I was released from the hospital and went to security with my receipt. The security officer said "nice piece" when he opened the pelican case at the counter. I put my unloaded pistol back in my holster and walked out of the hospital. They didn't cancel my policy, send me a nasty letter, or tell me not to do it again.

Last edited by glock21sf; 02-15-2018 at 6:00 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-15-2018, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Wonder if that applies to LEO's escorting detainees.
Apparently not. I was in a Kaiser facility a couple weeks ago for some x-rays, and there were several inmates in the hallway also waiting for x-rays. The inmates were cuffed and shackled to gurneys and escorted by armed LEO's.
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Old 02-15-2018, 8:59 PM
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Effective 4/1/18, all hospitals in CA are required to implement a workplace violence and prevention policy, with specific reporting requirements for incidents involving weapons. Expect all hospitals to crack down on firearms in the next month.
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Old 02-15-2018, 9:13 PM
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I would not allow a rent a cop or other hospital staff to take a firearm from me. Under Ca law, it is not legal for me to transfer or loan someone a firearm and, if they do not have a FSC or are exempt, that would be another crime. I'm sorry but, there "policy" is actually ILLEGAL in CA! And, I will NOT break the law to appease them.
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
I would not allow a rent a cop or other hospital staff to take a firearm from me. Under Ca law, it is not legal for me to transfer or loan someone a firearm and, if they do not have a FSC or are exempt, that would be another crime. I'm sorry but, there "policy" is actually ILLEGAL in CA! And, I will NOT break the law to appease them.
Thumbs up.
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Old 02-16-2018, 4:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Wonder if that applies to LEO's escorting detainees.
Wonder no more. Paragraph 1.1 explains it.
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Old 02-16-2018, 4:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spegull03 View Post
Effective 4/1/18, all hospitals in CA are required to implement a workplace violence and prevention policy, with specific reporting requirements for incidents involving weapons. Expect all hospitals to crack down on firearms in the next month.
The Governor signed this: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...01320140SB1299
Which brings us this: https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Doc...ta=(sc.Default)

Very similar to Workplace Violence Plan directions issued to State of California agencies.

However, the governing statute (above) contains no authority for the plans to contravene other statutes. Neither a regulation nor a policy has that authority.
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 02-16-2018 at 5:10 AM..
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Old 02-16-2018, 5:19 AM
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When I'm going to visit it's on me.
When I'm going to a doctors appointment it's in a small bag.
When I went to a surgery it stayed home locked in the safe.
When I came back home and had severe hallucinations from the legally prescribed drugs I told my wife to change the lock combination of the safe, so I will not know it.
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Old 02-16-2018, 5:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
I would not allow a rent a cop or other hospital staff to take a firearm from me. Under Ca law, it is not legal for me to transfer or loan someone a firearm and, if they do not have a FSC or are exempt, that would be another crime. I'm sorry but, there "policy" is actually ILLEGAL in CA! And, I will NOT break the law to appease them.
It also appears to transfer "possession" of the firearm from the owner, which would seem to establish "possession" by someone other than the owner.
Quote:
NO person while on Kaiser Permanante Medical Center or Medical Office property shall be in possession of a firearm or other deadly weapon.
That also extends the prohibition to parking lots.
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Old 02-17-2018, 3:53 PM
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If I'm taking a patient to Kaiser, I carry. Same if I need to pick something up from the pharmacy. If I'm going for my own appointment, I'll either carry or leave it locked in the car, depending on what the appointment is for (eye exam vs. colonoscopy).

If I have an accident and I'm taken to Kaiser in an ambulance unconscious, I guess it's out of my control.
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Old 02-20-2018, 9:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
I would not allow a rent a cop or other hospital staff to take a firearm from me. Under Ca law, it is not legal for me to transfer or loan someone a firearm and, if they do not have a FSC or are exempt, that would be another crime. I'm sorry but, there "policy" is actually ILLEGAL in CA! And, I will NOT break the law to appease them.
Sorry, I forgot to mention they gave me the keys to the padlocks on the pelican case. I unloaded the pistol and placed it in the case. I then closed the padlocks. You're not transferring your gun to the security personnel. It's like putting it in a locker at the gym or legally flying with an unloaded pistol in your checked bag after checking it in at the ticket counter to the airline personnel.

Last edited by glock21sf; 02-20-2018 at 9:07 AM.. Reason: More information
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