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  #1  
Old 09-15-2015, 4:08 PM
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Default FRANKLIN ARMORY Binary Firing System & Release Firing System

Hi All.

Many of you have heard of our Binary Firing System, but just today we have launched our Release Firing System. The full description of how the two triggers work can be found on our recent facebook posting:

https://www.facebook.com/franklin.ar...7463597053378?

What is better than a light trigger? How about one that is measured in negative numbers?!
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Old 09-15-2015, 5:52 PM
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Interesting. So, the BRS trigger cannot be sold in CA due to the differing definition of what constitutes FA, right? Or, at least, its different interpretation by DOJ?
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Old 09-15-2015, 6:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick View Post
Interesting. So, the BRS trigger cannot be sold in CA due to the differing definition of what constitutes FA, right? Or, at least, its different interpretation by DOJ?
Actually it is a lot simpler than that. The CA definition and Federal definition are exactly the same. There isn't much room for DOJ to be creative and reinterpret the section differently.

However, CA has a separate Multi Burst Trigger Activator regulation. While I do not believe that the BFS represents an MBTA, there is a possibility that the DOJ could confuse an unwitting jury. Consequently, we are playing safe by not selling the BFS to the unexempted general public. There are exemptions for LE, dealers that sell to LE, and those with AOWs. (e.g. AOWs are exempt from 'ol 12020. AOWs equipped with a BFS would also be exempt of all the provisions of 12020 where MBTAs were originally classified.)
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Old 09-15-2015, 6:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
Actually it is a lot simpler than that. The CA definition and Federal definition are exactly the same. There isn't much room for DOJ to be creative and reinterpret the section differently.

However, CA has a separate Multi Burst Trigger Activator regulation. While I do not believe that the BFS represents an MBTA, there is a possibility that the DOJ could confuse an unwitting jury. Consequently, we are playing safe by not selling the BFS to the unexempted general public. There are exemptions for LE, dealers that sell to LE, and those with AOWs. (e.g. AOWs are exempt from 'ol 12020. AOWs equipped with a BFS would also be exempt of all the provisions of 12020 where MBTAs were originally classified.)
Need a video
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Old 09-15-2015, 6:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Ubermcoupe View Post
Need a video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKpVaKsUic
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  #6  
Old 09-16-2015, 12:07 AM
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Call me overly cautious or whatever, but on trap and skeet ranges shotguns equipped with release triggers however uncommon are usually very visibly marked (typically yellow tape on the stock saying the gun is equipped with a release trigger) that the gun is equipped with a release trigger. The problem being that somebody unfamiliar with release triggers will pull the trigger expecting a shot to get nothing and then when the don't expect the shot they release the trigger inadvertently firing the gun, sometimes in a unsafe direction (yes I know, always point in a safe direction) probably one of the best things to do is research the shotgun crowd about the use of release triggers. same problem with binary triggers is somebody that doesn't know the gun is such equipped will pull the trigger firing the first shot and then unintentionally fire the second shot when they release. In the shotgun crowd, Release triggers tend to have a bad rep for Negligent discharges, though the usefulness if a gun equipped with a release trigger is debatable. Also even the veteran shooters that have used release triggers for a long time are still prone to ND's because of the gun being a release trigger.
Another thing to keep in mind is that not shooting is becomes more complicated, because normal triggers, if you don't wanna shoot, you just take your finger off of the trigger. Release triggers, not shooting requires an additional action once the trigger has been set. Also, release triggers are not safer on the simple basis of requiring two actions to fire since if whatever pulls the trigger will also release it, unless the what is a person and that person is conscious to the fact that the trigger is pulled and safes the gun (in shotguns, you break the action open)
Please keep in mind that as much as a rifle belongs to one individual, people borrow and share each other's guns all the time. Likewise when I let a friend fire my rifles or vice versa. Somebody can also unknowingly flip the safety into the third position and then unintentionally fire the shot. Yes it does happen. No dont say the shooter needs to be smarter, if you're focused on shooting you may not notice. if you're hunting, you may not notice your safety might be in the wrong mode.
If anything, as much as we expect people to be smart about things people are people and stupid people are abound. At the very least I would encourage you to have the guns equipped with binary or release triggers very clearly marked on the gun that they are equipped with such a trigger either by large very visible decals or other more permanent means, and if you sell just the trigger, to include such warning decals for the gun. I like Franklin armory for selling things that meet the exact letter of the law and being pro CA but lets think ahead because we don't wanna hear them being the subject of a Remington 700 type or Keltec KSG type lawsuit such as the gun allegedly went off on its own and shot somebody (ignoring that the manual states safety rules like safe direction and not chambering till ready) or in the case of KSG (it looked like I can install a forward grip even though it's not intended for that application)
Keep in mind that for shotguns, some ranges and some organizations either outright ban release triggers or at the very least require very prominent marking (hence the yellow tape with words)
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Old 09-16-2015, 6:54 AM
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Thank you for the thoughtful response Cheezle56. You have salient points, and I appreciate your wisdom. I will try to respond to the concerns raised:

Yes, each firearm will be appropriately labelled for each mode. When we get to the point that we are offering the BFS and RFS as an accessory, we will have bright labels shipper with each trigger.

It is important to note that the BFS and RFS can negate the shot on the release function in Mode 3. This is what makes our product different than anything previous. By using the offhand selector to modulate the selector, the firearm can easily be made safe. Yes, users need to be trained, and we will be promoting safety training at every turn. We believe that this feature will provide a reason for competitive organizations to review both products.

Franklin Armory is partnering with LMS Defense to provide specialized training on these products. We will encourage every user to take these classes by providing inducements such as discounts on future products for those that take the training.

After a lot of work with the BFS, I seriously doubt that many people will accidentally find themselves in Mode 3. How many military and LE find themselves in full auto unintentially? In the rare event that it did happen, it would not be uncontrollable, but I agree that users must pay attention to what mode they are in.

Ultimately each shooter will have to evaluate whether this product will work for them or not. I do not begrudge the individual that decides to avoid the options that our product provides. It is not for everyone. However, I do like the constructive discussion on how to distribute the product. You have highlighted many of the issues that we have proactively tackled in development.
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Old 09-16-2015, 7:06 AM
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I thought i had just about everything i wanted until i saw this.

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Old 09-17-2015, 10:04 AM
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
You used to have another video up, when the BFS was first introduced, no?

Love to see one on an AOW. Keep up the great work, FA!
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  #11  
Old 09-18-2015, 10:32 AM
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Very cool. I think you need more videos.

I'm normally a pretty big fan of your guys' stuff, but I do have one point of concern. I think everyone's probably a little bit gun-shy (pun intended) after Tac Con pretty wholely failed to deliver what their videos claimed.

Does your trigger require fancy fingerwork to make it function like it does in the videos or is it really as simple as pull the trigger back then release the trigger?
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:40 AM
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I posted a bunch more videos last night. It works very smoothly, and doesn't require much technique. The only technical issue is that you can't leave your finger in the same position during the release function or the back up disconnector will catch the hammer. By pulling and releasing quickly, you will have full function that is very controllable.
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  #13  
Old 09-18-2015, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
I posted a bunch more videos last night. It works very smoothly, and doesn't require much technique. The only technical issue is that you can't leave your finger in the same position during the release function or the back up disconnector will catch the hammer. By pulling and releasing quickly, you will have full function that is very controllable.
So really just don't pull too slow? I don't think I'd have a problem pulling it too slow with this type of trigger.
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  #14  
Old 11-23-2015, 7:21 AM
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We're finally shipping as of last week!
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Old 01-16-2016, 6:37 PM
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Are you expecting the price point to come down in the future? I'd REALLY be in the market at about a 25 percent decrease. If these were $300 I think they would fly out the doors.
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