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  #1  
Old 04-22-2018, 2:41 AM
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Default Home Defense Ammunition

I live in an apartment complex and am afraid to use FMJ in the unlikely event I needed to defend myself at home.

What are some brands and models of ammo to consider for home defense in a densely populated environment? Is there such an ammo that falls apart easily if there were a miss such that it would fall apart on contact with something as thin as drywall?
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Old 04-22-2018, 3:09 AM
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00 buck low recoil
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Old 04-22-2018, 4:05 AM
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Nerf
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Old 04-22-2018, 4:30 AM
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Or should I be limited to 10?

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Old 04-22-2018, 4:36 AM
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Whatever you use make sure it cycles and functions in your gun.
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Old 04-22-2018, 4:57 AM
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Blanks
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Old 04-22-2018, 5:36 AM
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If im going to die gotta take that risk, just know what wallls are a no go.

Always winchester Ranger T-series. In vogue is the HST. Both are great
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Old 04-22-2018, 5:41 AM
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Try the ARX bullets - https://www.inceptorammo.com/project/inceptor-arx/
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Old 04-22-2018, 7:13 AM
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Use frangible ammo.
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Old 04-22-2018, 7:17 AM
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A member in another thread suggested using a pellet gun for home defense, I think his name was Gavin.?.
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Old 04-22-2018, 7:29 AM
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.38 Special Shotshell in a revolver. Will injure and not likely to kill, but will not penetrate walls.
It is the only readily available ammo that will satisfy your requirement
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Old 04-22-2018, 9:08 AM
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Frangible will still go through dry wall. A 12 gauge with #8 birdshot at 1200 FPS will penetrate, at close range less than 6 feet it will put a tennis ball size hole and go through 4 sheets of drywall. Results may vary a little depending on barrel length and choke.

A 38 special bird shot will probably not penetrate unless the muzzle just a few inches away from the wall. A blank 38 Special round will probably be better as the intruder may just run off thinking you missed. If the intruder gets hit with a birdshot it may just piss him off and finish you off.

I would bet on #8 birdshot from a modified cylinder 18.5” barrel.
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Old 04-22-2018, 9:08 AM
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Frangable ammo breaks apart on impact
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Old 04-22-2018, 9:55 AM
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It does break apart, but does it guarantee it won’t injure or kill an innocent bystander on the other side of the wall? Yes the #8 birdshot doesn’t guarantee it will not injure either. Best way is to identify your fire zones to be safe. If you’re out of those zones, try not to miss.
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Old 04-22-2018, 10:09 AM
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Federal HST. Always.
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  #16  
Old 04-22-2018, 10:34 AM
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Another vote for HST.
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Old 04-22-2018, 10:40 AM
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Golden saber or HST are both good to go.
Center of mass shot placement should take care of any drywall concerns
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Old 04-22-2018, 10:54 AM
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Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot depending on the weapon.
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Old 04-22-2018, 10:55 AM
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If I lived in an apartment I would use frangible ammo in a 9mm or larger handgun. Not for every day carry, just for the home where a shoot through is a real possibility. Paper thin walls are a danger to unintended targets.
1991 "The Strasbourg Tests" documented tests on live animals that averaged incapacitation times were analyzed using current ammo of the day with some interesting results that do not necessarily conform to current "best HD ammo" dogma.
Very interesting reading >>> The Strasbourg Tests
Frangibles averaged 4.5+- seconds until the collapse of the animals when shot through the lungs.
Everything else took much longer on average. Reading the tables...
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:02 AM
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+1 on Federal HST
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  #21  
Old 04-22-2018, 11:09 AM
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Federal HST, Winchester Ranger T and Speer Gold Dots are my choice. Not sure about living in thin drywall apartment with these though.
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:34 AM
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I prefer HST and NO MISS.
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:59 AM
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I’m serious when I say this ... pepper spray and baseball bat or big maglight with the gun as a last resort, using whatever was recommended above. I have similar concerns in that my kids’ bedroom is across the hallway, and you never know when a d where you’ll be if/when you need to take a shot.
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:10 PM
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpod View Post
Or should I be limited to 10?

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Old 04-22-2018, 9:27 PM
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Guess I'm the first to recommend 5.56.

5.56 has significantly less wall penetration than 9mm.
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Old 04-23-2018, 1:34 AM
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What you need is the new K-9 Model.
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Old 04-23-2018, 4:59 AM
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In 9mm, I have my pistol loaded with 124gr standard velocity Remington Golden Sabers. They expand great and do not over penetrate. Light weigh for caliber projectiles and reliable expansion should deposit all the energy into the target. You may even want to look at something chambered in 380 ACP.

Found this online the other day. They make a great argument for the AR platform. 6 Reasons Why The AR-15 Is Actually Ideal For Self-Defense

As for shotgun, I prefer 12GA #4 buck as 00 buck can over penetrate.

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Old 04-23-2018, 7:30 AM
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OP look at some self defence shooting videos and see for yourself how many shots it takes to take down an attacker especially in lighter calibers.

HP's are a great option and what most people use.

I know this may sound callus but I'm going to use the best ammo to defend my life first and foremost, this hype over "wall penetration" takes a back seat. A human fist can go clean through drywall with enough effort, it isn't stopping a bullet for anything. Doesn't matter what you use, and if you start using birdshot or other light ammo, be prepared for a target that won't go down.

You live in an apartment in close proximity, try your best to be aware of where those apartments are and what might be beyond their walls. Besides that GL and hope you never get involved in a HD scenario.

I'd much rather deal with a civil lawsuit cause a couple of my rounds ended up in my neighbours fridge, then to be on a stainless steel slab because I used birdshot.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyOdessa View Post
.38 Special Shotshell in a revolver. Will injure and not likely to kill, but will not penetrate walls.
It is the only readily available ammo that will satisfy your requirement
Using above the Perp lives to sue you.
I prefer BIG 45ACP with Hollow points.
Fire 10 Rounds to intruders chest then yell "Stop, I have a Gun, I will shoot you"!
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Old 04-23-2018, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
I’m serious when I say this ... pepper spray and baseball bat or big maglight with the gun as a last resort, using whatever was recommended above. I have similar concerns in that my kids’ bedroom is across the hallway, and you never know when a d where you’ll be if/when you need to take a shot.
This requires the luxury of time and complete threat assessment. I hear what you're saying, I have a two year old as well and have wrangled through multiple scenarios in my head and practice. I've taken multiple tactical training sessions to understand that things could go horribly wrong but home defense requires an unfair advantage and if perpetrators are armed, the unfair advantages are the element of surprise and situational awareness in your own home, everything else starts to muddy the waters. Just my $0.02.
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Old 04-23-2018, 1:24 PM
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Anything that has enough physical energy to penetrate 12 inches of ballistic gel as is recommended by the FBI for "stopping power" against humans will also have enough energy to go through 5/8ths of an inch of chalk. It's physics. There is no "magic bullet" that has the ability to defy physics.

Don't trust me, try it for yourself. Get a single sheet of drywall from home depot. They cost $3. Take it home and poke at it to see how easy it is to put a hole in it. Now think if you want a firearm that puts out so little energy that it won't put a hole in the drywall.

Quality defensive hollowpoint ammunition is designed to stop after 12 inches in the first "wet" target it encounters, that's why cops carry it. You may want to consider using the same ammunition as your local PD.

Typically, it's reccomended to set up layers of defense where the firearm is the absolute last line of defense. Reinforced locked doors, maybe a dog, sirens, cameras, and signs should come into play before any firearm.
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Old 04-23-2018, 1:36 PM
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Hard to beat Federal HST or Speer Gold Dot.
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Old 04-23-2018, 1:39 PM
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OP

Their was a round developed for exactly your concern- Glaser Safety Slug

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug

It is a giant hollow point full of tiny lead pellets.... you need mass for good penetration and this converts to lots of light weight projectiles upon hitting something.

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Old 04-23-2018, 1:44 PM
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When you ask the question, as cops hit 20-30% of the time, why aren’t cops issued Glasser rounds,........


A concern is a bad person stepping behind a chair, couch or fridge....

Normally a chair is concealment not cover. The chair can hide you but it cannot stop a bullet. With safety slugs, many small items can stop the round or at least make it ineffective in stopping a threat....


https://youtu.be/1wi1UnTxNcs

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Old 04-23-2018, 1:45 PM
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You can buy them at some local shops or here
https://www.corbon.com/glaser-safety-slug.html


The Glaser Safety Slug® was designed in 1974 in response to the possibility of having to use a handgun on an airplane by the Sky Marshals . The concerns at that time were over penetration on soft tissue and ricochets on hard surfaces and possible excess penetration. In 2002, we purchased the company, because we knew that Safety Safety-Slug-family-boxes2 Slug would be a perfect compliment to the COR®BON family of products and a great home defense round.With a bit of engineering enhancement, today, Glaser® offers this excellent performing self-defense round for civilian use. It’s the perfect round for apartment complexes, and close quarter security areas such as; courthouses, hospitals, amusement parks
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Old 04-23-2018, 1:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwinters14 View Post
OP look at some self defence shooting videos and see for yourself how many shots it takes to take down an attacker especially in lighter calibers.

HP's are a great option and what most people use.

I know this may sound callus but I'm going to use the best ammo to defend my life first and foremost, this hype over "wall penetration" takes a back seat. A human fist can go clean through drywall with enough effort, it isn't stopping a bullet for anything. Doesn't matter what you use, and if you start using birdshot or other light ammo, be prepared for a target that won't go down.

You live in an apartment in close proximity, try your best to be aware of where those apartments are and what might be beyond their walls. Besides that GL and hope you never get involved in a HD scenario.

I'd much rather deal with a civil lawsuit cause a couple of my rounds ended up in my neighbours fridge, then to be on a stainless steel slab because I used birdshot.

As you know, that's not the real concern. The issue is not your neighbour's fridge, it's your neighbour, and his/her kid. It might be better to be on that stainless steel slab than looking at your neighbours baby on the same slab instead of you.

That is an extreme example, but there are too many cases of people hurt by "drive-by-shootings" where the target was untouched, but neighbours were killed. So it can't be just dismissed as a concern. And as I mentioned, if you have kids, you will certainly rather be dead than one of them.

Maybe what makes sense is to get doors that will last long enough for you to be able to put yourself and your gun/bat/pepper spray in a position where your shots are clear to the invader and you aren't in front of your kids room so the thug's missed shots don't go there.

Maybe birdshot won't stop a bad guy. But maybe multiple hits of birdshot might?

No real good solution except to "harden" your walls somehow. Kevlar walpaper? (I'm only half joking!)

This reason is sort of why I wish more CA homes has a second story with the bedrooms upstairs. You can stand and defend the bedrooms from the top of the stairs and know that your missed shots will be hitting the floor and not a bedroom.
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Old 04-23-2018, 1:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
As you know, that's not the real concern. The issue is not your neighbour's fridge, it's your neighbour, and his/her kid. It might be better to be on that stainless steel slab than looking at your neighbours baby on the same slab instead of you.

That is an extreme example, but there are too many cases of people hurt by "drive-by-shootings" where the target was untouched, but neighbours were killed. So it can't be just dismissed as a concern. And as I mentioned, if you have kids, you will certainly rather be dead than one of them.

Maybe what makes sense is to get doors that will last long enough for you to be able to put yourself and your gun/bat/pepper spray in a position where your shots are clear to the invader and you aren't in front of your kids room so the thug's missed shots don't go there.

Maybe birdshot won't stop a bad guy. But maybe multiple hits of birdshot might?

No real good solution except to "harden" your walls somehow. Kevlar walpaper? (I'm only half joking!)

This reason is sort of why I wish more CA homes has a second story with the bedrooms upstairs. You can stand and defend the bedrooms from the top of the stairs and know that your missed shots will be hitting the floor and not a bedroom.
In the drive by shooting scenario, most times they're criminals with no firearms experience and will literally spray an entire area. The outcome in those situations isn't surprising.

Hardening your home is the best thing realistically. You never want to be in a situation where you're at your Alamo, because there's so many ways things can go sideways at that point.

Reinforced doors, security systems, shatterproof windows etc... the list is as long as your budget would allow.

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Old 04-23-2018, 2:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
You can buy them at some local shops or here
https://www.corbon.com/glaser-safety-slug.html


The Glaser Safety Slug was designed in 1974 in response to the possibility of having to use a handgun on an airplane by the Sky Marshals . The concerns at that time were over penetration on soft tissue and ricochets on hard surfaces and possible excess penetration. In 2002, we purchased the company, because we knew that Safety Safety-Slug-family-boxes2 Slug would be a perfect compliment to the CORBON family of products and a great home defense round.With a bit of engineering enhancement, today, Glaser offers this excellent performing self-defense round for civilian use. It’s the perfect round for apartment complexes, and close quarter security areas such as; courthouses, hospitals, amusement parks
Frangibles will do the job.
Read my post #19 above.
Strasburg Tests link.
Live animals tested while wired and shot through the lungs with a variety of calibers/ammo types.
Frangibles caused collapse at just 4+ seconds on a 150 - 170lb goats.
Mag Safe & Glaser safety slugs were hands down better at actual stopping. Good read and nobody is shooting (FBI) jello mold, but they use it as backstop media.
This is not current popular dogma because it uses real live animals and not very PC to even mention it.
Frangibles would be the ammo I'd uses if I lived in apartment. Not street but in the home.

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Old 04-23-2018, 2:09 PM
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Mk262 or similar OTM out of a carbine for home defense. Despite what gun store commandos tell you, shotguns are NOT the best tool for HD.

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