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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:34 PM
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Default Stake or no need to stake AR build?

I bought a castle nut off ebay, but i just notice it didnt had a notch to stake. Is it necessary. Trinity steel castl nut. Turner didnt had any locally.

I work on my car and we dont stake our rim nuts.

Tighten good enough or is it just a tradition to stake a castle nut?
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  #2  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:43 PM
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If you're satisfied with the setup/parts stake it. You don't want your buffer tube to come loose. This could render your rifle useless in an emergency situation.

After I get a buffer tube plate with built-in QD hole, I stake it. It only takes a second and can be removed easily.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Stanze View Post
If you're satisfied with the setup/parts stake it. You don't want your buffer tube to come loose. This could render your rifle useless in an emergency situation.

After I get a buffer tube plate with built-in QD hole, I stake it. It only takes a second and can be removed easily.
I guess i gonna need to get another one.
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  #4  
Old 08-16-2018, 12:28 AM
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If you're not running around in the bush, staking isn't really necessary.

JMHO
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  #5  
Old 08-16-2018, 6:14 AM
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I didn’t stake mine, and have had no issues whatsoever.
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Old 08-16-2018, 8:32 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyingShooter View Post
I didn’t stake mine, and have had no issues whatsoever.
If you didnt stake, locktite?
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Old 08-16-2018, 9:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sambodian View Post
If you didnt stake, locktite?
Nope, nothing. 600-800 rnds so far, and no issues coming loose. I really don’t think there is much torque on the castle nut to have it come loose under normal circumstances. In combat/warfare sure maybe, but any type of civilian use, I doubt it...it’s easy to do though, so whatever floats your boat.
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Old 08-16-2018, 9:23 AM
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Default Opinions varry...

Any of the guys I valued as quality AR smiths when I was learning to build said always stake ( to quote the owner of one company "differentiates to me a rifle built by a hobbyist or a professional." ) Like others here have said for a non combat rifle that will bench shoot your probably fine. However since you know how to do it and what it means i would take the extra step with my own build if it was me. You can stake without the notch , just push enough material to prevent the castle nut rotating. I have done several with no notch.

Last edited by Daze; 08-16-2018 at 9:27 AM..
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  #9  
Old 08-16-2018, 9:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sambodian View Post
If you didnt stake, locktite?
I have two that are stake but the rest are not. The ones that are not have blue loctite so that it not that hard to remove them when needed.
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Old 08-16-2018, 9:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sambodian View Post
If you didnt stake, locktite?
I have two that are stake but the rest are not. The ones that are not have blue loctite so that it not that hard to remove them if/when needed.
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  #11  
Old 08-16-2018, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daze View Post
Any of the guys I valued as quality AR smiths when I was learning to build said always stake ( to quote the owner of one company "differentiates to me a rifle built by a hobbyist or a professional." ) Like others here have said for a non combat rifle that will bench shoot your probably fine. However since you know how to do it and what it means i would take the extra step with my own build if it was me. You can stake without the notch , just push enough material to prevent the castle nut rotating. I have done several with no notch.
U have a picture for that. Maybe i can try that without having to get another castle nut.
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:03 AM
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Stake it. DO NOT USE LOCTITE.

The reason you stake it is because your stock is what is going to loosen it. You will notice that there is a small amount of play between the notch in the end plate, and the notch in the extension tube. The leverage created by pulling your stock into your shoulder and any rotational forces on the end of the stock will slowly loosen your castle nut because of that play.

There is a reason that things are done a certain way, just like there is a reason we wear safety glasses and ear pro. People before us have learned the hard way.

I've been asked at the range if I had a castle nut range.
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:24 AM
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I always stake the castle nut. Extra insurance.

There's no reason to not stake it.
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  #14  
Old 08-16-2018, 11:38 AM
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Default I'll try to take a pic

At work ATM but I'll try to snap a pic for you later tonight or this weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sambodian View Post
U have a picture for that. Maybe i can try that without having to get another castle nut.
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  #15  
Old 08-16-2018, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barang View Post
I have two that are stake but the rest are not. The ones that are not have blue loctite so that it not that hard to remove them when needed.
This is one example of why Loctite is a bad idea on castle nuts.

http://gunlink.info/forums/index.php?topic=1496.0
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  #16  
Old 08-16-2018, 12:46 PM
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I built several AR's before I knew anything about Staking the Castle Nut. That was more than ten years ago and non of them have come loose. Never use Loctite.
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:57 PM
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Once you have the castle nut torqued to the correct ft/lb, you insert the gas tube. If the nut looses, the tube prevents more than 1 degree of rotation

Bolt carrier get staked- not my castle nuts
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  #18  
Old 08-16-2018, 1:02 PM
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Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
Once you have the castle nut torqued to the correct ft/lb, you insert the gas tube. If the nut looses, the tube prevents more than 1 degree of rotation

Bolt carrier get staked- not my castle nuts
We are talking about the castle nut, not the barrel nut.
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Old 08-16-2018, 1:03 PM
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Stake it or your AR is going to blow up in your face while you are fighting civil war II. Is your life worth the cost of a staked castlenut?

Seriously though, I've built quite a few ARs and have never staked the castle nut. YMMV. Im sure there are a bunch of wannabe high speed operator Noveske Daniel Defense fanbois that think its sacriledge not to stake a castle nut. Oh yeah and make sure everything on your AR is "milspec" or its complete trash and wont last a million rounds. What? You dont shoot at least 50,000 rounds a month through one AR?
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Last edited by lightcav; 08-16-2018 at 1:06 PM..
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  #20  
Old 08-16-2018, 1:06 PM
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What is the case against staking?

Cheap? Lazy?

I don't get it.
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  #21  
Old 08-16-2018, 1:13 PM
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A castle nut! A castle nut! My kingdom for a castle nut!
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  #22  
Old 08-16-2018, 1:25 PM
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One of the things I do to tighten up a buffer tube fit is a small amount of teflon tape on the threads for the receiver before tightening down the nut. never had the nut loosen up
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Old 08-16-2018, 1:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorMan View Post
I always stake the castle nut. Extra insurance.

There's no reason to not stake it.
This. It takes literally 2 seconds with a center punch, or 1 good hit with a chisel and a hammer. Not staking just lazy IMO
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Old 08-16-2018, 2:19 PM
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Unless going to war, staking the castle nut isn't really necessary. If really worried, then switch to rifle-length fixed buffer extensions and stocks (like the traditional A2), which do not even use castle nuts and are sturdier than any collapsible stock on a carbine-length buffer extension.

I wonder how many folks arguing over staked castle nuts are running non-war configs with unpinned gas blocks (which are a far greater failure risk, given the high gas pressures involved). On a battlefield, if a castle nut rotates loose 5-degrees, no big deal; but if a set-screw gas block rotates loose 5-degrees, then your Direct Impingement AR suddenly becomes a club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
What is the case against staking?
Gives you the option to easily switch between carbine-length buffer extensions/stocks and rifle-length extensions/stocks. Assuming you aren't busy fighting in the Sandbox. For most folks (not .mil), the AR is Lego for adults.
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Old 08-16-2018, 2:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
Stake it. DO NOT USE LOCTITE.

The reason you stake it is because your stock is what is going to loosen it. You will notice that there is a small amount of play between the notch in the end plate, and the notch in the extension tube. The leverage created by pulling your stock into your shoulder and any rotational forces on the end of the stock will slowly loosen your castle nut because of that play.

There is a reason that things are done a certain way, just like there is a reason we wear safety glasses and ear pro. People before us have learned the hard way.

I've been asked at the range if I had a castle nut range.
I should start staking my nut lugs on the rims. My tire might fall off too

Just being sarcastic. Lol
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Old 08-16-2018, 2:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Daze View Post
At work ATM but I'll try to snap a pic for you later tonight or this weekend.
Thanks. I might later upgrade to the strike industries end plate combo instead.
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Old 08-16-2018, 2:25 PM
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I don't stake the castle nut. Ive had to change mines out a time or two.
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Old 08-16-2018, 2:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barang View Post
I have two that are stake but the rest are not. The ones that are not have blue loctite so that it not that hard to remove them if/when needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
Stake it. DO NOT USE LOCTITE.

The reason you stake it is because your stock is what is going to loosen it. You will notice that there is a small amount of play between the notch in the end plate, and the notch in the extension tube. The leverage created by pulling your stock into your shoulder and any rotational forces on the end of the stock will slowly loosen your castle nut because of that play.

There is a reason that things are done a certain way, just like there is a reason we wear safety glasses and ear pro. People before us have learned the hard way.

I've been asked at the range if I had a castle nut range.
Little clarification: blue loctite the tube that goes into the receiver not the castle nut.
I have disassembled and reassembled the ones with blue loctite and not a problem. I don't go crazy with the amount of loctite applied. Just two drops are enough.
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Old 08-16-2018, 2:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
What is the case against staking?

Cheap? Lazy?

I don't get it.
Nothing wrong. Just curious if it just a traditional that started or is it mandatory. I notice everyone has different say in it. Couldn't get a direct answer googling.

I just didnt feel like ordering another one if i didnt need to. But will upgrade later.
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Old 08-16-2018, 3:27 PM
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Reminds me of question to check if the case necks of my brass are annealed or not.
And Cheryl Crow song "if it makes you happy"
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Old 08-16-2018, 4:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KT_SF View Post
Unless going to war, staking the castle nut isn't really necessary. If really worried, then switch to rifle-length fixed buffer extensions and stocks (like the traditional A2), which do not even use castle nuts and are sturdier than any collapsible stock on a carbine-length buffer extension.

I wonder how many folks arguing over staked castle nuts are running non-war configs with unpinned gas blocks (which are a far greater failure risk, given the high gas pressures involved). On a battlefield, if a castle nut rotates loose 5-degrees, no big deal; but if a set-screw gas block rotates loose 5-degrees, then your Direct Impingement AR suddenly becomes a club.

Gives you the option to easily switch between carbine-length buffer extensions/stocks and rifle-length extensions/stocks. Assuming you aren't busy fighting in the Sandbox. For most folks (not .mil), the AR is Lego for adults.
It isn't Calguns till its Calguns.

Thanks for the reminder.

Last edited by tonyxcom; 08-16-2018 at 4:23 PM..
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Old 08-16-2018, 4:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sambodian View Post
I should start staking my nut lugs on the rims. My tire might fall off too

Just being sarcastic. Lol
I know you are being sarcastic, but lug nuts don't see the types of rotational forces a castle nut does.

But on the subject of cars, next time you have your front wheel off, take a look at the nut holding the front hub on the spindle. It either has a cotter pin through it or it's [gasp] staked after its been torqued.

Last edited by tonyxcom; 08-16-2018 at 4:23 PM..
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Old 08-16-2018, 5:04 PM
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Steel nut cinched to a threaded aluminum tube. Of course it'll never come loose.
Except when you really need it not to.
Gas key? Staked it.
Castle nut? Stake it.
Why? The armorer's tech manual for the M16/M4M4A1 says to do it.
No cost insurance against unscheduled self dis-assembly/gas leakage.
So I stake the stupid stuff and move on.
AR clone assemblers get to do whatever the hell they want to, because they can.
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Old 08-17-2018, 7:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
This is one example of why Loctite is a bad idea on castle nuts.

http://gunlink.info/forums/index.php?topic=1496.0
There are different loctites. Just don't use the permanent kind. I think Vibratate VC-3 will work too.
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Old 08-17-2018, 8:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Daze View Post
You can stake without the notch , just push enough material to prevent the castle nut rotating. I have done several with no notch.
^^^^, what I did
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  #36  
Old 08-17-2018, 8:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
I know you are being sarcastic, but lug nuts don't see the types of rotational forces a castle nut does.
Just what rotational force does a castle nut see after it has been installed?
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Old 08-17-2018, 8:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
Just what rotational force does a castle nut see after it has been installed?
The stock. It moves the tube back and forth which walks the castle nut loose.
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  #38  
Old 08-17-2018, 9:27 PM
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You can do it correctly, or do it “as good as”. Probably won’t matter for most, but I still prefer correctly.


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  #39  
Old 08-18-2018, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sambodian View Post
Just curious if it just a traditional that started or is it mandatory.
Military armorer's manuals call for staking.
Most people don't use their guns hard enough to have a problem related to the lack of staking.
if you want a gun that's absolutely reliable in hard use (1000's of rounds in a weekend), staking the castle nut is part of how you build it.
If you are only going to shoot a few thousand rounds in the gun's life, staking probably won't matter.
When I assemble a lower, the castle nut gets staked.
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Old 08-18-2018, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
Just what rotational force does a castle nut see after it has been installed?
Ever notice how there is a little slop between the receiver extension, the receiver and the plate before you tighten the nut?
That's how the normal forces of manipulating the rifle turns the receiver extension back and forth and causes the castle nut to loosen.
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