Ammo Sales / Transfer on 1/1/2018

[ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ]

Originally Posted by carrywisely_ca

I think you posted the DOJ's proposed text.
The OAL adopted rules differ just a bit:
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...opted-text.pdf

You are right. I made a mistake and copy and pasted from the original draft instead of the final text.

[acespawnshop]

Originally Posted by SRedmon

Got it.

So there is no law on the transfer fee for internet vendor sales, and the law for PPT is $5 if delivered immediately.

So we still haven't decided on what is a fair price for this. We are now back to square one. What is the consensus on how much to charge.

[ugimports]

We're likely going to do something where pickup within Z days is free or cheap.
Z to X days $Y storage fees
After X days it gets returned to vendor for $Y*(X-Z days)+shipping costs

Still thinking about X, Y, and Z.. and depending if people start shipping pallets we may revise those or go to space based fees.

Our situation is a little different though since we're by appt only. If my previous customers that I've done this for are any indication of what we'd see we can expect 1-2k ammo per shipment per person.

We might limit the amount of ammo transfers to 5 active transfers at a time or something also.

[kemasa]

I would be tempted to do it based on the weight. 10 lbs is much easier to deal with than 1000 lbs.

[Condorguns]

Originally Posted by acespawnshop

So we still haven't decided on what is a fair price for this. We are now back to square one. What is the consensus on how much to charge.

We are still trying to figure this out too. I know we want to do the $5 fee for same day pick up. I'm thinking the $5 will probably break us even in cost for staff to take the ammo in, deliver it, and process the tax.

Maybe after 24 hours to 1 week it would go up to $10-$15. Longer than a week $20.

It's difficult to come up with a plan when I have no idea what other shops are doing. I have no clue if we are coming in too high or low.

How long are you guys thinking of holding ammo before it's abandoned? If it is abandoned is it returned to the seller or forfeit to the shop?

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by Condorguns

We are still trying to figure this out too. I know we want to do the $5 fee for same day pick up. I'm thinking the $5 will probably break us even in cost for staff to take the ammo in, deliver it, and process the tax.

Maybe after 24 hours to 1 week it would go up to $10-$15. Longer than a week $20.

It's difficult to come up with a plan when I have no idea what other shops are doing. I have no clue if we are coming in too high or low.

How long are you guys thinking of holding ammo before it's abandoned? If it is abandoned is it returned to the seller or forfeit to the shop?

I didn't even consider forfeiting to the shop. That might be better than returning it because at least you can make some money back from that.

I would just start with a fee structure that makes sense and then adjust it once you see how the market is around you. I need to figure out with my wife what she wants to do since she processes most of the daily deliveries. I don't want to do free if it's a PITA for her. However, I do know that for "immediate" / pickup fairly quickly, I want to keep it as near $0 as possible, then heavy penalize when it sits too long. I might modify our structure though and after 14-30 days we just keep the ammo to resell vs. return to sender. If someone doesn't come in within 14-30 days (not sure what we'll choose yet) then I would say they don't want the ammo. We are stressing they plan ahead and don't order it if they can't pick it up near immediately after the tracking shows it will arrive.

ETA: I also don't think I will add us to any auto-ship lists. Too many people assume that if you're on that one of those that there's nothing else they need to do for coordination. Last thing we need is a pallet coming in when we're full because 10 people found us on an auto-ship list site for ammo at the same time!

[wannabefree]

Originally Posted by Condorguns

We are still trying to figure this out too. I know we want to do the $5 fee for same day pick up. I'm thinking the $5 will probably break us even in cost for staff to take the ammo in, deliver it, and process the tax.

Maybe after 24 hours to 1 week it would go up to $10-$15. Longer than a week $20.

It's difficult to come up with a plan when I have no idea what other shops are doing. I have no clue if we are coming in too high or low.

How long are you guys thinking of holding ammo before it's abandoned? If it is abandoned is it returned to the seller or forfeit to the shop?

I asked a local gun shop here and they told me they were thinking of charging $5.00 plus 10% of the receipt total. So a $200 order would cost $25.

[Addax]

We are in the same situation.
Trying to figure out a fair fee schedule.

Problem is size, and weight.
1000 rounds of most ammo is manageable, but a pallet of ammo not the same.

We are considering a tier type fee schedule based on round count or considering base fee like $5 plus % of total invoice amount.

[ugimports]

Part of our reason to keep the fees low is to encourage customers to NOT feel the need to buy a pallet of ammo at a time . If we can keep it low then there's no incentive to buy a bulk pallet. E.g., they can buy 2 boxes of 9mm and only pay sales tax if the pick it up within X days. With that logic they won't feel the need to save up and do a once a year pallet purchase (I hope).

That's our thought at least.

Also, we have some history of San Francisco and Oakland customers (who never could ship to their house) using us over the years. Most of the folks purchased 1-2k at a time. We charged $0 and didn't have to collect sales tax at the time.

I think the most one recent customer was about 5k, but that was a bulk buy to beat the deadline.

I don't know many customers, even if you troll our forums, that actually purchased a pallet of ammo at a time. It seems even the most frequent ammo purchasers were only purchasing 1-2k per purchase. They may have been doing that 2-3 times a month, but I've rarely (other than 22LR) seen folks say they just about 20k of .223 or .308 in a single order/delivery. I figure those folks will just get their FFL03/COE since they will easily make back that money if they are buying that large in bulk and will save themselves a trip to the LGS.

[rbetts]

We have websites that sell ammo, so our incentive is to get our customers to use the websites and not pay any fees. We are following 10Percents lead on ammo being shipped in. 20 Cash 30 Credit plus tax No limit on time held.

[acespawnshop]

Originally Posted by Condorguns

I'm thinking the $5 will probably break us even in cost for staff to take the ammo in, deliver it, and process the tax.

Why would you work to break even? Its seems like a time management thing to me. If had one employee take 20 minutes on the thing he probably is making $5 every 20 minutes. Therefore if he spends more than 10 minutes on the stuff its a loss. I bet you lunch there is no way your employees will take less than 10 minutes to deal with this once you count in time to deal with the customer with pickups. Nobody comes in and leaves right away.

[acespawnshop]

Originally Posted by wannabefree

I asked a local gun shop here and they told me they were thinking of charging $5.00 plus 10% of the receipt total. So a $200 order would cost $25.

That's not a bad idea. Lets expand on this a little. What I don't want is somebody who just needs 1 box of "odd caliber hard to find" to have to pay $25 for us to receive his $40 box of ammo. If we did something like orders under $100 are flat fee $10.00 that seems fair, you wont be making any money, but you probably wont get many of these. Orders $1000 and under are $25, these would be the guys who order 1000 rounds .223 1000 rounds 9mm and 1000 rounds of 7.62x39 that seems like a $1000 order to me. If you start going percentage based that can get super high quick. Example 10% on a $1500 order is $150 in fees. That seems a little too much.

What if we did something like this. Your ammo order is $10 for small orders under $100.00, then go $25 for orders up to $1000. If your order is over $1k then add on $5 for each case of ammo (size equivalent of the black plastic ammo totes LAX ammo sells at the gun shows, or the .50 cal ammo can size.) So if he orders $3000 worth of ammo its $25 then add up how many cases were sent to you and tack on $5.00 each case to lug them around your store. ***THIS IS NOT OUR STORE POLICY JUST SPEAKING FOR DISCUSSION***

Originally Posted by ugimports

Part of our reason to keep the fees low is to encourage customers to NOT feel the need to buy a pallet of ammo at a time .

We've already had phone calls from people asking if we had a warehouse and pallet jack to handle this. Seriously dude only wanted to pay $10 for us to receive his damn pallet of ammo. And there was no way he was paying sales tax on it according to him. He was going to find somebody else since we were not being cooperative with his wants.

[Santa Cruz Armory]

Our policy may change in the future, but we're going to start with a hybrid version of 10% Firearms fee schedule



2018
Ammunition Transfer Fees

Effective immediately, Santa Cruz Armory Inc. will have the following ammunition vendor fee schedule. This fee does not apply to the ammunition available for sale in our store. These prices are subject to change.



**Please check with us to PRIOR to having ammunition shipped in so you are fully aware of the fees involved.


Private Party Ammo Transfer $5 and no sales tax due


Ammunition Order Storage Fee Cash/Check Credit/Debit
< 5,000 Rounds $20 $30
> 5,000 Rounds $25 $35
>10,000 Rounds ASK FOR CUSTOM QUOTE

**8.5% CA Sales Tax must be collected on the invoice price of the ammunition

All ammunition shipments received MUST have an original invoice with shipment so the proper sales tax can be collected. Failure to provide an invoice will result in the collection of sales tax at the rate Santa Cruz Armory Inc. would sell that particular ammunition for.

All shipments must be picked up within 5 days of arrival unless previous arrangements have been made.
Shipments not picked up promptly, will accrue a storage fee of $5 per box, per day starting on day 6. After 15 days, shipments will be considered abandoned and will become the property of Santa Cruz Armory, Inc. and will be sold to recover storage fees.


§ 4263. Vendor Fee for Processing a Private Party (non-vendor) Ammunition Sale

In addition to any applicable Department of Justice fee, an ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser a fee(s) for processing the sale of ammunition between two private parties as follows:

(a) If the purchaser will be present for immediate delivery of the ammunition, the fee shall not exceed five dollars ($5).

(b) If the purchaser will not be present for immediate delivery of the ammunition, the vendor may charge an additional storage fee as agreed upon with the purchaser prior to the vendor receiving the ammunition.


Again, thanks to 10% Firearms for setting the standard for many of the CA dealers. (As is usually the case)

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by acespawnshop

That's not a bad idea. Lets expand on this a little. What I don't want is somebody who just needs 1 box of "odd caliber hard to find" to have to pay $25 for us to receive his $40 box of ammo. If we did something like orders under $100 are flat fee $10.00 that seems fair, you wont be making any money, but you probably wont get many of these. Orders $1000 and under are $25, these would be the guys who order 1000 rounds .223 1000 rounds 9mm and 1000 rounds of 7.62x39 that seems like a $1000 order to me. If you start going percentage based that can get super high quick. Example 10% on a $1500 order is $150 in fees. That seems a little too much.

What if we did something like this. Your ammo order is $10 for small orders under $100.00, then go $25 for orders up to $1000. If your order is over $1k then add on $5 for each case of ammo (size equivalent of the black plastic ammo totes LAX ammo sells at the gun shows, or the .50 cal ammo can size.) So if he orders $3000 worth of ammo its $25 then add up how many cases were sent to you and tack on $5.00 each case to lug them around your store. ***THIS IS NOT OUR STORE POLICY JUST SPEAKING FOR DISCUSSION***



We've already had phone calls from people asking if we had a warehouse and pallet jack to handle this. Seriously dude only wanted to pay $10 for us to receive his damn pallet of ammo. And there was no way he was paying sales tax on it according to him. He was going to find somebody else since we were not being cooperative with his wants.

Maybe I'll add something in our instructions that any order > 5k rounds requires pre-approval.

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by ugimports

Maybe I'll add something in our instructions that any order > 5k rounds requires pre-approval.

It’s tough to boilerplate this. 5000 rds of .22 is only one box.

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by taperxz

It’s tough to boilerplate this. 5000 rds of .22 is only one box.

And those will just get an automatic approval from us

ETA: modified the text to say > 5k of non-22LR

[acespawnshop]

Originally Posted by ugimports

And those will just get an automatic approval from us

ETA: modified the text to say > 5k of non-22LR

.17 HMR?

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by acespawnshop

.17 HMR?

5.7x28 ?

[acespawnshop]

Originally Posted by taperxz

5.7x28 ?

I've got one of those, they're expensive rounds. Maybe I'll adopt a policy of if you order ammo that is something I can use we just keep a little of it. We shall call this the Deebo Policy.

[taperxz]

Looking forward to picking up 4000 rounds of 50 BMG from UGIMPORTS next week

Just sending them, no need to call ahead

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by acespawnshop

I've got one of those, they're expensive rounds. Maybe I'll adopt a policy of if you order ammo that is something I can use we just keep a little of it. We shall call this the Deebo Policy.

They’re not cheap are they...

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by acespawnshop

.17 HMR?

$1M

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by taperxz

5.7x28 ?

$2M

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by taperxz

Looking forward to picking up 4000 rounds of 50 BMG from UGIMPORTS next week

Just sending them, no need to call ahead

Sweet..we'll just keep them and re-sell to recoup our costs

[acespawnshop]

Our, CFD, HiCap and AMMO came in today.

[kemasa]

I need to check with the city to see if I can actually do ammo transfers, but it looks like I will be the only one charging by the pound if I do. It takes care of the .22LR and .50BMG.

[kemasa]

Originally Posted by acespawnshop

Our, CFD, HiCap and AMMO came in today.

My hicap did not come as they say that I have to have magic words in the good cause statement, which was acceptable for all the previous years.

[acespawnshop]

Ours did have it. Apparently my wife takes the time to read the regs and when I panicked and called here asking about the wording when OC didn't get theirs she got all tongue lashy with me about how that's always been the case and been on all the Hi-cap renewals for all the pawn shops she manages etc....

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by acespawnshop

Our, CFD, HiCap and AMMO came in today.

What ammo did you get? Some .22LR or 5.7?

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by kemasa

My hicap did not come as they say that I have to have magic words in the good cause statement, which was acceptable for all the previous years.

I just keep the same GC letter and re date it.

Do you realize how important it is to have “will not harm public safety” on there?

Sheesh

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by ugimports

What ammo did you get? Some .22LR or 5.7?

Ha! I’ll be crossing the Dumbarton tomorrow for my 50

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by acespawnshop

Ours did have it. Apparently my wife takes the time to read the regs and when I panicked and called here asking about the wording when OC didn't get theirs she got all tongue lashy with me about how that's always been the case and been on all the Hi-cap renewals for all the pawn shops she manages etc....

I don’t think that was needed until Last year.

[acespawnshop]

Originally Posted by taperxz

I don’t think that was needed until Last year.

You might be right, but when I called her about it I got the snarky, you mean you DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THIS AND I DID, 'tude. I promptly got told it had already been handled blah blah blah and she knows what she's doing blah blah.

Originally Posted by ugimports

What ammo did you get? Some .22LR or 5.7?

Cute, you think I have time to deal with my own shooting hobbies.

[acespawnshop]

Ok we just told a customer who called that is our guinea pig on the ammo orders this.

$15.00 for his ammo order plus tax. He's getting 1000 rounds .223 and 1000 rounds .45. Cash money only.

I think that we will go with this for a while. If you're ordering a 'reasonable' amount of ammo say less that 10,000 rounds and you're picking it up with a couple weeks I'm ok with it. We will be testing this policy for the next couple weeks to see how it goes. Please call us to confirm, and we probably will need to send our ammo vendor license out. I will post an official policy once it clears committee here and has its public debate.

[upsdude]

so your customer is paying $15 +tax for a total of 2k rounds in cash only? just asking for clarity thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Tunis]

Just received an email from the NSSF with some Comments and DOJ responses...

https://www.oag.ca.gov/sites/all/fil...nt-reasons.pdf

[acespawnshop]

Originally Posted by upsdude

so your customer is paying $15 +tax for a total of 2k rounds in cash only? just asking for clarity thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yes, we are charging $15 for the interstate transfer of ammo on orders up to $1000 or 10,000 rounds. We are doing this as a trial run and may adjust prices up or down depending on the workload.

[ugimports]

*bump* added info to OP from an additional DOJ response I received

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by taperxz

Ha! I’ll be crossing the Dumbarton tomorrow for my 50

My wife said your ammo didn't show up

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by ugimports

My wife said your ammo didn't show up

UPS shows it was delayed due to the storm