McMillan vs. AI

[wildcard]

I can't decide if I want to go with a AI or McMillan A4/A5 for my .338 Lapua build. It'll probably just come down to what I like better.. but does anyone here who has knowledge/ experience of both have any compelling arguments?

I've tried the AI and like it.. I still need to try the McMillan. I have to admit.. the McMillan is rather aesthetically pleasing to me.

[rksimple]

I like the feel of both. For some reason, when prone, the AICS is a bit more stable for me. Spend some time behind each...or just close your eyes and pick. You really can't go wrong either way.

[Cypriss32]

Ill have my A5 out there. U can get behind it.

[Vu 308]

If you plan on going with a custom action i.e. Surgeon XL or Stiller Tac Series I would double check to make sure the AICS fits those actions without heavily modification.

If you do have to heavily modify the AICS I would go for a McM A5 and have it built to your specs.

What are you running right now? You may also consider keeping all your stocks the same so that when you switch rifles you don't have to get use to the "feel" of each rifle.

I am in the process of switching all my rigs over to A5s so I can train with my 308 but compete with my mouse gun when need be.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by cypriss32

Ill have my A5 out there. U can get behind it.

Perfect! Thanks. I know there'll be a few AIs out there so having a McMillan A5 to compare against will be most excellent!

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Vu 308

If you plan on going with a custom action i.e. Surgeon XL or Stiller Tac Series I would double check to make sure the AICS fits those actions without heavily modification.

If you do have to heavily modify the AICS I would go for a McM A5 and have it built to your specs.

What are you running right now? You may also consider keeping all your stocks the same so that when you switch rifles you don't have to get use to the "feel" of each rifle.

I am in the process of switching all my rigs over to A5s so I can train with my 308 but compete with my mouse gun when need be.

I plan on using a Stiller XL action. It will require the recoil lug area on the AI to be opened up forward a little and obviously bedded. The skin would have to be trimmed a bit too.. so the modification would be considerably minor.

I currently use the standard HS Precision Stock on the 700P.. it works and I like it.. I guess i'm just a traditionalist like that. I'll have a better basis to make my decision after I try them both side by side this weekend.

[Prc329]

Vu's reasoning is why I am going AICS for the 300 win mag build I am planning.

[Mute]

First and foremost, a stock needs to fit you well and be comfortable in use. I prefer the AICS but some can't stand them, so you really need to get behind one of each to see how you like them.

I am also a big fan of the McMillan stocks, especially the A5, but I still prefer the AI.

[Prc329]

Wildcard, if I can get out next weekend you can spend some quality time behind my AICS.

[Cypriss32]

Timberwolf will have his AICS there and Ill have the A5 should be good times. I might take out the 308 too.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by cypriss32

Timberwolf will have his AICS there and Ill have the A5 should be good times. I might take out the 308 too.

Peter will have his R&D built AI out there too. I loved the feel of that rifle when I used it. I've also held Nayt's and from what I recall, they both felt "solid" to describe it in one word. The only thing that felt awkward was the cheek position in relation to the scope but I think thats just because it's set up to their preference and deviates from my own. I just need to make the comparison between the stocks..

[Timberwolf]

I'll have Savannah - if you ask her nicely she'll probably let you play with her a little. Seriously you're welcome to lay behind her and fire off a few to see how she feels. AICS stocks are a little odd and its basically a love 'em or hate 'em thing. I personally love them others I know say they feel like laying behind a 2X4.

[PistolPete75]

you guys all talk like your gonna pull up behind the rifle and do it "doggy" style.

my baby likes it rough too. slap it silly, and she'll cry for some more. she likes me to make her go bang, bang.

my baby is all black. "the blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice." ice-cube. (just joking nayt)

[Prc329]

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by wildcard

I plan on using a Stiller XL action. It will require the recoil lug area on the AI to be opened up forward a little and obviously bedded. The skin would have to be trimmed a bit too.. so the modification would be considerably minor.

I did not remember Nayt's AI, but is the bedding a v-block, or a radius?
If it's a radius, you WOULD have to do some significant machining to run a larger diameter action.
If it's a v-block arrangement, a larger diameter action just sits higher in the block.

[Prc329]

The top of the aluminum.

[Vu 308]

My buddy Shawn talked to Terry Cross and he indicated that the Surgeon XL will not work in the AICS.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Vu 308

My buddy Shawn talked to Terry Cross and he indicated that the Surgeon XL will not work in the AICS.

I think I accidentally indicated I would be using a Stiller XL which doesn't exist.. I meant a Stiller TAC338. I spoke to George at GAP, and Jerry Stiller himself and they agreed it could be done with the minor fitting mentioned. Randy will be doing the work for me when he accepts new orders.

[uscbigdawg]

For me the LOP on the AICS isn't ideal and just not comfortable. That and I've resolved that if I'm not going to buy an AI rifle, then I don't want to do it half ***. I love my A2 and A5.

Rich

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Prc329

The top of the aluminum.

In the picture, it looks like there's a set channel for the barrel in front of the lug. If this section is used to partially support the barrel, then does it only accept barrels of a certain breach diameter since I was under the impression that bedding is not necessary in this system? Would bedding/ modification be necessary for a barrel that has a breach of say 1.35" or 1.20"? Or is it merely an extension of the receiver channel (to accomadate actions 1.35") where it would end up supporting a 1.35" barrel and leaving anything smaller completely free floating?

[Prc329]

You can see it better in this pick. There is a nice gap below the barrel.

[wildcard]

Now I can see that the lug area is cut straight through, but my question is rather regarding the depth of the barrel channel. Does you barrel sit completely free floated or is it supported for that first 1"? How would it effect barrels of different breach diameters?

Thanks for the pics BTW.. you must really love your stock

[Prc329]

I do. It just works very well for me. I believe the first inch or so is supported. I'll tell you for sure after work today. Unless Peter is home and he can check his real fast.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Prc329

I do. It just works very well for me. I believe the first inch or so is supported. I'll tell you for sure after work today. Unless Peter is home and he can check his real fast.

If that's the case, then if you use a barrel that isn't 1.25" at the breach.. then modifications or bedding needs to be done..

Looking at the picture, it looks like the barrel channel is flared out a bit more than the rest.. which means any barrel equal to or less than the diameter of the action should be completely free floating.. I figure it out when I see one..

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by wildcard

In the picture, it looks like there's a set channel for the barrel in front of the lug. If this section is used to partially support the barrel, then does it only accept barrels of a certain breach diameter since I was under the impression that bedding is not necessary in this system? Would bedding/ modification be necessary for a barrel that has a breach of say 1.35" or 1.20"? Or is it merely an extension of the receiver channel (to accomadate actions 1.35") where it would end up supporting a 1.35" barrel and leaving anything smaller completely free floating?

It sure looks like a continuation of the receiver's v-block cuts.
If you were going to use a barrel that's the full 1.35" diameter over the chamber, I would recommend clearance cutting the AICS to NOT have the barrel touching.
The OD of the barrel is not necessarily aligned with the OD of the receiver.
As most barrels are smaller than 1.35" over the chamber, this is not a problem.

[Prc329]

Remember, the AICS was designed as a straight replacement of a Remington stock. It was designed with the stock action in mind.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by Prc329

Remember, the AICS was designed as a straight replacement of a Remington stock. It was designed with the stock action in mind.

Stock 700 actions don't ever come with barrels that are 1.350" diameter installed.

[rksimple]

It'll handle a 1.35 barrel. Take a look at the pic here. The suppressor comes all the way back to about the action. The AICS channel is bigger than the OD of the remmy action.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by rksimple

It'll handle a 1.35 barrel. Take a look at the pic here. The suppressor comes all the way back to about the action. The AICS channel is bigger than the OD of the remmy action.

That's not an AICS.

[rksimple]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

That's not an AICS.

Really? You're kidding me? The chassis is the same between them, with the obvious differences.

[Mute]

Originally Posted by rksimple

It'll handle a 1.35 barrel. Take a look at the pic here. The suppressor comes all the way back to about the action. The AICS channel is bigger than the OD of the remmy action.

That suppressed rifle you linked is an AI rifle not an AICS so it's not quite the same, nevertheless, you're correct that the AICS channel is large enough to take a 1.35 barrel.

[rksimple]

Originally Posted by Mute

That suppressed rifle you linked is an AI rifle not an AICS so it's not quite the same, nevertheless, you're correct that the AICS channel is large enough to take a 1.35 barrel.

Yes, I know. I thought that people discussing this would realize that the chassis are virtually identical, barring the differences in the action area.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by rksimple

Yes, I know. I thought that people discussing this would realize that the chassis are virtually identical, barring the differences in the action area.

Without a side-by-side picture, it's hard to say...
The AI mates with a lug and the receiver appears to be flat bottomed.
Therefore, I doubt it has the v-block forward of the lug.
The one that I saw apart seems to be flat forward of the lug too, but then the lug was back a bit from the front of the AI action, more like a Mauser.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by rksimple

The chassis is the same between them, with the obvious differences.

That's the oxymoron of the week.

[wildcard]

Does the receiver actually touch the flat bottom of the aluminum block or does it just sit/ tighten against the "V"?

I'm about to put my order in for one.. but i'm too impatient to answer these questions for myself..

[rksimple]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

Without a side-by-side picture, it's hard to say...
The AI mates with a lug and the receiver appears to be flat bottomed.
Therefore, I doubt it has the v-block forward of the lug.
The one that I saw apart seems to be flat forward of the lug too, but then the lug was back a bit from the front of the AI action, more like a Mauser.

You saw the AI apart? Was it an AE? The AW action should be bonded in the chassis. Not to say that they can't be separated but they shouldn't. The barrel channels are the pretty much the same and its floated forward of the lug AFAIK. I'm not going to be putting a 1.35 barrel on mine anytime soon so I don't really worry.

[rksimple]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

That's the oxymoron of the week.

Should have said virtually. The differences are ,well, obvious. I'll have more time and resources to explain the differences when I get my AW...still haven't broken it to the wife yet.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by rksimple

You saw the AI apart? Was it an AE? The AW action should be bonded in the chassis. Not to say that they can't be separated but they shouldn't. The barrel channels are the pretty much the same and its floated forward of the lug AFAIK. I'm not going to be putting a 1.35 barrel on mine anytime soon so I don't really worry.

Apart = skins off.

The AI receiver has the lug back a bit, maybe 3/4" or more.
So, while it's similar to an AICS, it's like an AICS for a Mauser, not for a 700.
The extra section of v-block forward of the receiver is what we are talking about and THAT part is not present on the AI receiver setup.

It seems that the whole reason that the extra v-block IS present on the AICS is probably because AI took their regular AI aluminum, cut a v-block in it and started adapting it to the 700 before re-naming it the AICS.
I still can't figure out WHAT purpose that extra section of v-block forward of the lug serves on the AICS unless it's to fill space in the skins.

Are the skins the same for the AI and AICS setups?

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by wildcard

Does the receiver actually touch the flat bottom of the aluminum block or does it just sit/ tighten against the "V"?

I'm about to put my order in for one.. but i'm too impatient to answer these questions for myself..

The round action should not touch the flat bottom.

[Prc329]

I believe it is tight against the V and doesn't touch the bottom. I have the skin off my rifle right now so I'll take picks tonight.