General question about gun assembly and aftermarket parts.

[Splash One]

This is probably one of the more newb questions you'll ever see, but bear with me.

The other day I was looking at one of the many "post your gun pix here!!!" threads when one of the posts said something along the lines of "here's my 10/22, no stock parts left!" Basically the individual had tinkered and modded until everything in the gun was aftermarket or perhaps custom-made. This got me thinking. I'm fairly certain just building a gun from scratch would be illegal, someone else can verify that for me, but how does the law differentiate between modifying an existing gun until no stock parts remain and buying a bunch of aftermarket parts and assembling them to form a complete gun and buying a complete gun with them?

Maybe the person who originally put this idea in my head had something left of the original gun... but what is the most one can change in a gun (a rifle, since I believe handgun grips are the important part for ... DROS? purposes, and new grips have to be registered as separate guns? I'm not sure on that) while still being the original gun? Are there parts one should not swap out to avoid getting in trouble with the law, or if they were to change out everything does it require a new DROS or whatever the correct... thing... is?

A lot of questions, I know. But I'm certain my next gun is going to be a 10/22 and with all the aftermarket options out there I plan on customizing it out the butt, so I'd really like to know what's what as I plan every detail of my future purchase.

Thanks!

[Chaos47]

Originally Posted by Splash One

This got me thinking. I'm fairly certain just building a gun from scratch would be illegal

That is wrong you can build guns from scratch. Look up 80% builds for example or AK flat bending. Those guns do not need serials and do not have to be reported.

Maybe the person who originally put this idea in my head had something left of the original gun... but what is the most one can change in a gun (a rifle, since I believe handgun grips are the important part for ... DROS? purposes, and new grips have to be registered as separate guns? I'm not sure on that) while still being the original gun?

Grips? You can change grips and stocks to your hearts content.

I think you are confusing grips for receivers or frames

Are there parts one should not swap out to avoid getting in trouble with the law, or if they were to change out everything does it require a new DROS or whatever the correct... thing... is?

There is no way to or reason to "redros" a gun unless you are transferring it.

Generally you don't change out the receiver as that is the serialized part. But it is possible..

If you bought an aftermarket receiver it would have to be dros'd
(Like an aftermarket 10/22 receiver or AR lower)


Once you own a gun you can pretty much do anything to it you want as long as you stay state and federal legal. Barrel lengths, overall lengths, CA AWB etc

[Splash One]

Originally Posted by Chaos47

Grips? you can change grips and stocks to your hearts content.

For long guns, sure, but before I bought my Glock and learned about things like refinishing a gun I was looking at possibly getting a new OD grip for it and one of things (I thought) I saw was that it's the part the Gov'mint actually considers the firearm... and I'd have to DROS it. I could be and probably am wrong though.

Originally Posted by Chaos47

If you bought an aftermarket receiver it would have to be dros'd
(Like an aftermarket 10/22 receiver or AR lower)

That's good to know. And the receiver would have to be sent to or purchased from an FFL? Thanks for the reply!

[Chaos47]

The lower section of a Glock isn't a "Grip" it is a "Frame"

Glocks don't really have "Grips" in the traditional sense of the word
Grips are panels that are attached to frames on other guns such as 1911's. Or a rubber thing you would slide up onto the frame of a Glock


As you probably noticed the frame on a Glock is a serialized part.
On Glocks the barrel, slide and frame are all serialized.
The part that is the registered serial numbered part in the case of a Glock is the Frame.

That is why you would have to go thru a FFL to get a new frame.
BUT on a pistol in California you can not just DROS a registered part such as a Glock frame because it would not be on the DOJ approved handgun roster. And you could not do a safe handling demonstration with it.

Different parts on different guns are the registered part. So it will not allways be the frame. It could be the slide in some cases.


Yes if you order a rifle receiver it will have to go to a FFL
For example:
http://www.nodakspud.com/NDS-22.htm


But say if you where building a Ruger MK pistol and wanted to get a paclite barrel
http://www.tacticalsol.com/tshome/ta...series-pistols
You would not be able to get one because in this case the registered serialized part of a Ruger MK pistol is the receiver/barrel. Not the frame in this case. And as I stated you can not transfer partial pistols in California because of the Roster

[Splash One]

Originally Posted by Chaos47

The lower section of a Glock isn't a "Grip" it is a "Frame"

For some reason I knew I wasn't using the right term there...

Originally Posted by Chaos47

As you probably noticed the frame on a Glock is a serialized part.
On Glocks the barrel, slide and frame are all serialized.
The part that is the registered serial numbered part in the case of a Glock is the Frame.

That is why you would have to go thru a FFL to get a new frame.
BUT on a pistol in California you can not just DROS a registered part such as a Glock frame because it would not be on the DOJ approved handgun roster. And you could not do a safe handling demonstration with it.

Different parts on different guns are the registered part. So it will not allways be the frame. It could be the slide in some cases.


Yes if you order a rifle receiver it will have to go to a FFL
For example:
http://www.nodakspud.com/NDS-22.htm


But say if you where building a Ruger MK pistol and wanted to get a paclite barrel
http://www.tacticalsol.com/tshome/ta...series-pistols
You would not be able to get one because in this case the registered serialized part of a Ruger MK pistol is the receiver/barrel. Not the frame in this case. And as I stated you can not transfer partial pistols in California because of the Roster

This raises a few more questions for me... Since the Glock has three serialized parts, I can't swap out any of them? Or still just the frame, as the state chooses which serialized part is important? I can't even begin to ask about the frame not being on the roster thing... I've since decided to refinish my gun myself or send it out if I want to do that, so it's not as big of an issue... but it's still silly.

Thanks for letting me milk your brain of this precious knowledge!

[Intimid8tor]

Originally Posted by Splash One

For some reason I knew I wasn't using the right term there...




This raises a few more questions for me... Since the Glock has three serialized parts, I can't swap out any of them? Or still just the frame, as the state chooses which serialized part is important? I can't even begin to ask about the frame not being on the roster thing... I've since decided to refinish my gun myself or send it out if I want to do that, so it's not as big of an issue... but it's still silly.

Thanks for letting me milk your brain of this precious knowledge!

They are all serialized, but the frame is the only part that is registered. Think of it as a numbers matching car. You can change the engine and the VIN does not change even though the VIN attached to the engine is now different.

[Chaos47]

I do not know for sure who chooses to make which part the registered part.
I assume it is the manufacturer.

You can change the barrel and slide on a GLOCK without using an FFL.

They are serialized by GLOCK but are not the registered part.
An aftermarket replacement slide or barrel would not have a serial from what I understand.

BTW if you send the frame out for refinishing that person will have to be an FFL to do the work because once again its the registered part

No problem! Feel free to keep asking if you have more questions!

[Chaos47]

Never made a 10/22 (Marlin guy here)

But I have seen this website and have been impressed with their prices and assortment of parts for the 10/22 in all sorts of colors.
http://www.tacticalinc.com/elite22%E...er-p-1123.html

Not sure if people think these are good quality parts or not. I will leave that researching up to you.

EDIT: Looks like they say they can't send the receiver to CA though. Probably wont get anywhere with them on that, lots of companies avoid CA

[Splash One]

Originally Posted by Intimid8tor

They are all serialized, but the frame is the only part that is registered. Think of it as a numbers matching car. You can change the engine and the VIN does not change even though the VIN attached to the engine is now different.

That's a good analogy but when it comes to guns I err on the side of things not adhering to common sense <__<

Originally Posted by Chaos47

They are serialized by GLOCK but are not the registered part.
An aftermarket replacement slide or barrel would not have a serial from what I understand.

That explains the other posts I've seen from people with .22 conversion kits for the Glock.

Originally Posted by Chaos47

BTW if you send the frame out for refinishing that person will have to be an FFL to do the work because once again its the registered part

... Damn. I never even considered that. I assume the site I'm considering is an FFL as they receive all kinds of guns but I'll be asking them to make sure now. Don't want to send my Glock out and not be able to get it back! D:

[Splash One]

Originally Posted by Chaos47

Never made a 10/22 (Marlin guy here)

But I have seen this website and have been impressed with their prices and assortment of parts for the 10/22 in all sorts of colors.
http://www.tacticalinc.com/elite22%E...er-p-1123.html

Not sure if people think these are good quality parts or not. I will leave that researching up to you.

EDIT: Looks like they say they can't send the receiver to CA though. Probably wont get anywhere with them on that, lots of companies avoid CA

Damn... right when I was about to thank you for even more great information! I have a metric ton of links bookmarked for my future 10/22 build. Even though I haven't looked into aftermarket receivers yet I dig that one and I'm really bummed they don't ship to Cali. One would think the fees involved with selling it legally would be worth the business they'd possibly get from the most populous state in the union... but no. I'll just find someone who doesn't mind shipping to our great albeit slightly misguided state and give THEM my business. Still, great part that I never thought of.

Edit - though now I've noticed a stock they have that I hadn't seen yet... they may just get my business yet!

[Chaos47]

Yea, sorry.

Some companies would rather just ignore CA then try to learn the laws. Which is ridiculous because of the money they are loosing out on

Let me guess the "CHRISTIE SUPER STOCK"? I think thats how I first found their site. Pretty good looking stock.

[Splash One]

Originally Posted by Chaos47

Yea, sorry.

I'm very rarely serious, don't worry about it!

Originally Posted by Chaos47

Let me guess the "CHRISTIE SUPER STOCK"? I think thats how I first found their site. Pretty good looking stock.

Yup! Exactly what I was looking at. Right now I'm interested going the tacti-cal/cool route if and when I get my 10/22 so I've been looking at the Tapco Tactical Trainer stock, but I don't like the way it looks as much as I like the Christie one. Not that looks are entirely important, mind you. I'm -really- interested in a stock like King Palm's,

Originally Posted by KING_PALM

I'm not sure about the details behind it but that thing is sexy as hell. I'd like to blend old and new school trains of thought with a wood stock without a pistol grip that has picatinny rails similar to what he's running, though I'd like a longer bottom rail for a foregrip. As you can probably tell from my questions I don't know much of diddly about guns, this makes using my google-fu that much more difficult when my gun jargon is barely a step above Carolyn McCarthy's 'shoulder thing that goes up.' Best I can figure is King's stock is some kind of custom job (sent him a PM but he hasn't responded yet) and while I wouldn't mind making my own I'm just not that comfortable enough with my woodworking/fabricating abilities to attempt such a thing.

I could probably write a book on everything I want in my future 10/22, but I'll spare my fellow Calgunners all the details Or at least the rest of them... I think I went a little overboard on this post

[Chaos47]

The rail is a Leapers UTG 10/22 Commando Tactical Quad Rail it attaches by replacing the barrel band on a 10/22. So to use it you have to have a factory ruger stock, an aftermarket which uses the barrel band or modify an aftermarket stock.

The 2nd issue is that its rumored that the rail is discontinued.

Boyds has all sorts of stocks in all sorts of colors
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/Replac...7-MKII-s/6.htm

I run a Tacticool from them on my Marlin 795
Similar to this:

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/TACT-R...-p/600-410.htm

[Splash One]

Originally Posted by Chaos47

The rail is a Leapers UTG 10/22 Commando Tactical Quad Rail it attaches by replacing the barrel band on a 10/22. So to use it you have to have a factory ruger stock, an aftermarket which uses the barrel band or modify an aftermarket stock.

The 2nd issue is that its rumored that the rail is discontinued.

Boyds has all sorts of stocks in all sorts of colors
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/Replac...7-MKII-s/6.htm

I run a Tacticool from them on my Marlin 795
Similar to this:

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/TACT-R...-p/600-410.htm

Edit: Here's my 795 with limited edition Tacticool stock (They only made a small run that was cut for the Marlin)

That's a sweet little rifle! How do you like it? I was considering the the Marlin Papoose (basically a 10/22 takedown)

Nice catch on the Leapers quad-rail! Of course it makes sense now that "10/22 + quad rail" would yield results... doh. I hope it's not actually discontinued, but it's available on Amazon and for $40 I might pick one up before I actually have the rifle. Still a bit of lament as I wish the lower rail was longer for mounting the foregrip a little closer and a bipod for tactical target plinking. I saw a video of the system in action so now I'm going to guestimate whereabouts the foregrip would actually mount on my friend's 10/22, see if it'll work for my smaller frame. If it does I'll be looking into some kind of combined foregrip/bipod. Maybe something with a laser on it, too. And of course the toaster for a bit of squirrel toast squares.

[Chaos47]

I love the Marlin 795 its a super accurate rifle!

The Papoose is basically a 795 takedown.
The Papoose is also known as the 70pps the model 70 was the model before the 795.
But pretty much the model 60, 70 and 795 all take 98% of the same parts.

BTW I would say the 10/22 takedown is basically a Papoose and not the other way around as the Papoose has been around for decades. The Ruger is the new kid on the block. Respect where respect is deserved haha

IMO the Papoose is better then the Ruger takedown because Marlins barrels are far superior out of the box. I assume aftermarket 10/22 barrels do not work in the takedown but I may be wrong about that.

It is said that it is harder to track down a Papoose. I don't know about that never tried to buy one...

There are a couple threads going on about issues people are having with their 10/22 takedowns btw