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  #1  
Old 11-04-2017, 12:45 AM
Joshhernz Joshhernz is offline
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Question Possible to retain Saiga 12, AR/AK pistols without registering?

I'm sure this has been covered in many threads, and believe me, I searched and tried to find any answers before becoming "that guy". After several hours searching I've finally given in and am asking for help.

Is there any way to modify a Saiga 12 gauge, an AR pistol and/or an AK pistol to be compliant with the new regulations going in effect to avoid registration as AW?

If not, what are my options?

For everyone who has already been asked and answered these questions numerous times already, I apologize for the annoyance. To anyone giving me constructive help, thank you.
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  #2  
Old 11-04-2017, 1:56 AM
solidfreshdope solidfreshdope is offline
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The only thing I can think of for a pistol is to make sure it is marked in compliance with BATF regulations and use a fixed magazine solution.


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  #3  
Old 11-05-2017, 10:45 AM
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Saiga 12, you could disable semi-auto functionality.
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  #4  
Old 11-05-2017, 3:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshhernz View Post
Is there any way to modify a Saiga 12 gauge, an AR pistol and/or an AK pistol to be compliant with the new regulations going in effect to avoid registration as AW?
For Saiga-12 options are:
A. Semi-auto shotgun with a fixed magazine.
Install a fixed magazine to the shotgun.
This can be done using a device that will prevent the magazine from being removed unless the firearm's action is disassembled or by permanently attaching (weld/epoxy/rivet) a magazine into the firearm's magazine well.
B. Manually operated shotgun.
Remove the gas-piston and plug the gas block.
This will make it into a manually operated (straight pull bolt-action) shotgun.
C. Disassembled parts.
Disassemble the firearm into parts and never assembled them while in CA.
It is prudent to store/transport the parts in seperate containers/locations.

For AR/AK pistols options are:
A. Semi-auto pistol with a fixed magazine.
Install a fixed magazine to the pistol.
This can be done using a device that will prevent the magazine from being removed unless the firearm's action is disassembled or by permanently attaching (weld/epoxy/rivet) a magazine into the firearm's magazine well.
B. Manually operated pistol.
Remove the gas-piston/tube and plug the gas block.
This will make it into a manually operated (straight pull bolt-action) pistol.
C. Disassembled parts.
Disassemble the firearm into parts and never assembled them while in CA.
It is prudent to store/transport the parts in seperate containers/locations.
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  #5  
Old 11-05-2017, 9:43 PM
Joshhernz Joshhernz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
For Saiga-12 options are:
A. Semi-auto shotgun with a fixed magazine.
Install a fixed magazine to the shotgun.
This can be done using a device that will prevent the magazine from being removed unless the firearm's action is disassembled or by permanently attaching (weld/epoxy/rivet) a magazine into the firearm's magazine well.
B. Manually operated shotgun.
Remove the gas-piston and plug the gas block.
This will make it into a manually operated (straight pull bolt-action) shotgun.
C. Disassembled parts.
Disassemble the firearm into parts and never assembled them while in CA.
It is prudent to store/transport the parts in seperate containers/locations.

For AR/AK pistols options are:
A. Semi-auto pistol with a fixed magazine.
Install a fixed magazine to the pistol.
This can be done using a device that will prevent the magazine from being removed unless the firearm's action is disassembled or by permanently attaching (weld/epoxy/rivet) a magazine into the firearm's magazine well.
B. Manually operated pistol.
Remove the gas-piston/tube and plug the gas block.
This will make it into a manually operated (straight pull bolt-action) pistol.
C. Disassembled parts.
Disassemble the firearm into parts and never assembled them while in CA.
It is prudent to store/transport the parts in seperate containers/locations.





Thank you, this really helps a lot. I've been fearing of having no choice but to send them to a family member in a state that isn't insane. For the fixed magazines, I'm assuming no, but would bolted be compliant? On the AR pistol could I install one of the mag locks to comply? On the AK, I haven't seen or heard of anything similar to the bullet button reloaded to be compliant, does anyone make a solution for this?
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  #6  
Old 11-06-2017, 10:06 AM
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AR pistols can reasonably be made fixed mag using something like a Franklin Armory DFM (or any of the other fixed mag options). Make sure that you always have a magazine inserted when you close the action, otherwise you have a SACF featured pistol without a fixed magazine.

AK platform firearms can't reasonably be made fixed mag. Yes, it's possible, but not what I consider reasonable.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshhernz View Post
Thank you, this really helps a lot. I've been fearing of having no choice but to send them to a family member in a state that isn't insane. For the fixed magazines, I'm assuming no, but would bolted be compliant? On the AR pistol could I install one of the mag locks to comply? On the AK, I haven't seen or heard of anything similar to the bullet button reloaded to be compliant, does anyone make a solution for this?
Pistols are registered anyway, so you don't retain privacy by not registering them. Unless you have a really compelling reason not to register them then why not register? That way they can be used as intended.

If you mod them to single shot they immediately loose value. If you disassemble them they cannot be used. As for the fixed semi-auto, that is only a real option for an AR pistol. Totally impractical for an AK pistol IMHO.

I am in the same boat as you with respect to this problem. I choose to register them rather than sell, which to me are the only two reasonable options.
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Last edited by ScottsBad; 11-06-2017 at 10:22 AM..
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  #8  
Old 11-06-2017, 4:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshhernz View Post
For the fixed magazines, I'm assuming no, but would bolted be compliant?
Bolt a magazine in place?
If going this route, CA regulatiosn call for the magazine to be welded, epoxied, and/or riveted into the magazine well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshhernz View Post
On the AR pistol could I install one of the mag locks to comply?
The Franklin Armory DFM would comply.
Both the Evolusion Concepts ARMagLock with a 10 or less round magazine installed and Bullet-Button PMR with a 10 or less round magazine installed, would also comply.

While assembled, a 10 or less round magazine must always be locked into place in order to remain CA legal.
The only time it can legally not have a magazine locked into place is when the firearm or firearm's action is disassembled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshhernz View Post
On the AK, I haven't seen or heard of anything similar to the bullet button reloaded to be compliant, does anyone make a solution for this?
Supposedly, the MagLatch USA AK MagLatch with a modified 10 or less round magazine would comply.
The AK MagLatch requires some fitting for proper installation and only works with modified AK magazines.
Using standard AK magazines will make the firearm into an illegal assault weapon.

While assembled, a 10 or less round magazine must always be locked into place in order to remain CA legal.
The only time it can legally not have a magazine locked into place is when the firearm or firearm's action is disassembled.

The process for loading/reloading a fixed magazine AK style firearm:
01. Check to see if the firearm is loaded.
02. Remove top cover.
03. Remove recoil spring assembly.
04. Remove bolt-carrier group.
05. Load magazine.
06. Install bolt-carrier group.
07. Install recoil spring assembly.
08. Install top cover.
09. Chamber a cartridge.
10. Shoot.
11. repeat steps #1-10.
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  #9  
Old 11-07-2017, 5:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
While assembled, a 10 or less round magazine must always be locked into place in order to remain CA legal.
The only time it can legally not have a magazine locked into place is when the firearm or firearm's action is disassembled.

Where is this coming from?
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  #10  
Old 11-08-2017, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whofarted View Post
Where is this coming from?
If you have a semiauto featured firearm without the magazine inserted, you now have a semiauto featured firearm without a fixed magazine, hence an AW.
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  #11  
Old 11-08-2017, 11:40 AM
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For Saiga 12 you take out the gas plug to make it single shot.
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Old 11-09-2017, 11:14 AM
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Quiet you are the ****ing man! Thank you for being the one person who can come with a straight answer on this whole site.

I hate this state! I built an AR pistol from an 80% lower last year thinking I could register it, but now it looks like I'm screwed. What's the point of having a disassembled AR pistol lower? I should use it as a paperweight in my office!

(sorry for venting)
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  #13  
Old 12-27-2017, 12:24 AM
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Would modifying the bullet button on an AK pistol to make the mag release inaccessible work? I mean to make the AK pistol legal and not require AW registration? I'm thinking something like soldering or epoxying a penny into the bullet button cage.
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Old 01-02-2018, 8:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofo-Kang View Post
Would modifying the bullet button on an AK pistol to make the mag release inaccessible work? I mean to make the AK pistol legal and not require AW registration? I'm thinking something like soldering or epoxying a penny into the bullet button cage.
bumping for info...
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Old 01-02-2018, 9:41 PM
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Why not one of these for the AK pistol?

https://maglatchusa.com/products/maglatch-ak

..
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAD LAUNCHER View Post
Why not one of these for the AK pistol?

https://maglatchusa.com/products/maglatch-ak

..
They're expensive, but they work well. I'd love to have them produce a version for the Saiga 12.
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  #17  
Old 02-16-2018, 9:31 PM
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Love to get an answer here, guys.
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Old 02-17-2018, 6:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofo-Kang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofo-Kang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofo-Kang View Post
Would modifying the bullet button on an AK pistol to make the mag release inaccessible work? I mean to make the AK pistol legal and not require AW registration? I'm thinking something like soldering or epoxying a penny into the bullet button cage.
bumping for info...
Love to get an answer here, guys.
California Code of Regulations Title 11 Division 5 Chapter 39 Article 2 Section 5471
(w) “Permanently attached to” means the magazine is welded, epoxied, or riveted into the magazine well. A firearm with a magazine housed in a sealed magazine well and then welded, epoxied, or riveted into the sealed magazine well meets the definition of “permanently attached to”.
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  #19  
Old 02-19-2018, 8:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
California Code of Regulations Title 11 Division 5 Chapter 39 Article 2 Section 5471
(w) “Permanently attached to” means the magazine is welded, epoxied, or riveted into the magazine well. A firearm with a magazine housed in a sealed magazine well and then welded, epoxied, or riveted into the sealed magazine well meets the definition of “permanently attached to”.
Thank you!
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:23 PM
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FYI - Maglatch just came out with a Vepr 12/ Saiga 12 solution.
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  #21  
Old 02-19-2018, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkasda View Post
FYI - Maglatch just came out with a Vepr 12/ Saiga 12 solution.


Thanks! https://maglatchusa.com/products/mag...iga-12-vepr-12
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  #22  
Old 05-17-2018, 9:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
For Saiga-12 options are:
A. Semi-auto shotgun with a fixed magazine.
Install a fixed magazine to the shotgun.
This can be done using a device that will prevent the magazine from being removed unless the firearm's action is disassembled or by permanently attaching (weld/epoxy/rivet) a magazine into the firearm's magazine well.
B. Manually operated shotgun.
Remove the gas-piston and plug the gas block.
This will make it into a manually operated (straight pull bolt-action) shotgun.
C. Disassembled parts.
Disassemble the firearm into parts and never assembled them while in CA.
It is prudent to store/transport the parts in seperate containers/locations.

For AR/AK pistols options are:
A. Semi-auto pistol with a fixed magazine.
Install a fixed magazine to the pistol.
This can be done using a device that will prevent the magazine from being removed unless the firearm's action is disassembled or by permanently attaching (weld/epoxy/rivet) a magazine into the firearm's magazine well.
B. Manually operated pistol.
Remove the gas-piston/tube and plug the gas block.
This will make it into a manually operated (straight pull bolt-action) pistol.
C. Disassembled parts.
Disassemble the firearm into parts and never assembled them while in CA.
It is prudent to store/transport the parts in seperate containers/locations.

For the Saiga 12, is this all you need to comply with Option B "Manually operated shotgun"?
https://maglatchusa.com/products/mag...iga-12-vepr-12
Or do you have to plug the gas port as well? If so, any recommendations on how to do that?

Thanks
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  #23  
Old 05-17-2018, 11:45 AM
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For AK I'd just remove the Piston rod from the carrier. Then have an assembled bolt carrier laying around.

AR I'd get a Franklin DFM for when in public, transporting, storage.
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