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  #1  
Old 04-13-2019, 10:04 AM
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Default Revolver or Semi Auto for the outdoors

I was thinking about getting a revolver to carry while hunting or camping on public land.

The two big advantages I can think of are:
  1. Revolvers can be loaded with light loads, so if I had a 357 revolver I could use a light 38 if I wanted to shoot a rabbit or something.
  2. You don't have to seek out your brass, which can be especially annoying in the brush.

The big disadvantage to me is that revolver ammunition is so much more expensive than typical semi auto calibers, which makes it a lot more expensive to practice with. At my local big box store 38 Spl is double the price of 9mm (and I don't reload at the moment). This can be partially offset by shooting steel-cased ammo which I'm going to be shooting more of since I'm moving to a place with more outdoor ranges, but I rarely see Tula 38 Spl in stock.
And with the lead-free law going into effect soon lead-free ammo availability will also be a concern (and I see a lot more lead-free 9mm and 45 ACP than 38 or 357 at the stores, and they're typically a lot cheaper).

(It's also worth mentioning that I'm a way better shooter with semis than with revolvers, even comparing a single action revolver vs a striker fired semi. But it's probably just because I practice with semis way more because I haven't spent very much time owning revolvers.)

And before anyone brings up power - there's not a whole lot of black bears around where I hunt or camp even though their distribution extends there, and I don't buy that 9mm isn't good enough for black bear. The most common potentially dangerous animals I spot are snakes and coyotes, and the latter tends to be pretty timid.

Last edited by Mystery_Milk; 04-13-2019 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 04-13-2019, 10:53 AM
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9mm isn't enough for black bear, but heavy .44 Special is. Since this is to be a defensive and not a hunting pistol, you may get away with using a lead semiwadcutter.

A .44 Special 250-grain lswc @ 950 fps is sufficient for nearly anything on four legs in North America, save for moose and grizzly. Even then, that's what I'd want over anything else, that is, if I couldn't have a 300+ grain .44 Magnum or a 400 grain .480 Ruger in a handgun.
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Old 04-13-2019, 10:59 AM
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As far as fire power, snakes, coyotes and black bear are not the issue, you just need enough to protect from 2 leggers.
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Old 04-13-2019, 1:29 PM
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I would only switch to a revolver for a couple reasons
1. Bear
2. Snake

If neither is a concern, then I wouldn’t worry about it. Or are you trying to look for a reason to buy a revolver? If yes, then yes- you should buy one or two...
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Old 04-13-2019, 2:25 PM
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Always a revolver outdoors.
Revolvers don't jam and have many different types of ammo depending where you are & what you're doing. I pack a .357/.38 locally or a .44Mag/.44Spl. when in Montana woods.
I grew up in Montana and spent many years on the east/dry side of the Rockies. This is serious rattle snake country - my Dad tought us to always keep a buckshot/snake shot round first up in the cylinder for nasty crawling critters.
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Old 04-13-2019, 2:27 PM
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Oh the heck with it! Carry one revolver and one semiauto. But don't forget to bring a 3rd...just for backup.
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Old 04-13-2019, 3:31 PM
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You can pick up a 45 long colt revolver and cut the cylinder for moon clips to shoot 45acp out of it, and still have options of light cowboy action 45LC, or heavy load 45lc that can almost match 44 magnum power.

Pick up a 454 casull and you can still run 45lc or 45acp with moon clips, or a smith 460 will fire 460, 454, 45lc, or 45acp- but getting into a pretty heavy large 5 shot at that point.
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Old 04-13-2019, 3:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystery_Milk View Post
I was thinking about getting a revolver to carry while hunting or camping on public land.

The two big advantages I can think of are:
  1. Revolvers can be loaded with light loads, so if I had a 357 revolver I could use a light 38 if I wanted to shoot a rabbit or something.
  2. You don't have to seek out your brass, which can be especially annoying in the brush.

The big disadvantage to me is that revolver ammunition is so much more expensive than typical semi auto calibers, which makes it a lot more expensive to practice with. At my local big box store 38 Spl is double the price of 9mm (and I don't reload at the moment). This can be partially offset by shooting steel-cased ammo which I'm going to be shooting more of since I'm moving to a place with more outdoor ranges, but I rarely see Tula 38 Spl in stock.
And with the lead-free law going into effect soon lead-free ammo availability will also be a concern (and I see a lot more lead-free 9mm and 45 ACP than 38 or 357 at the stores, and they're typically a lot cheaper).

(It's also worth mentioning that I'm a way better shooter with semis than with revolvers, even comparing a single action revolver vs a striker fired semi. But it's probably just because I practice with semis way more because I haven't spent very much time owning revolvers.)

And before anyone brings up power - there's not a whole lot of black bears around where I hunt or camp even though their distribution extends there, and I don't buy that 9mm isn't good enough for black bear. The most common potentially dangerous animals I spot are snakes and coyotes, and the latter tends to be pretty timid.
Dude, you need to reload. The classic Lee Loader, made for one caliber, is da bomb. Not a big investment and perfect for rimmed revolver cartridges.
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Old 04-13-2019, 6:21 PM
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Glock 20 or 29 10mm is the answer to the question.
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Old 04-13-2019, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
Oh the heck with it! Carry one revolver and one semiauto. But don't forget to bring a 3rd...just for backup.
I like the way you think!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda440 View Post
You can pick up a 45 long colt revolver and cut the cylinder for moon clips to shoot 45acp out of it, and still have options of light cowboy action 45LC, or heavy load 45lc that can almost match 44 magnum power.
I've been thinking about getting a Ruger Blackhawk convertible 45 LC/45 ACP. I feel like it'd be really versatile with low-medium-high power 45 LC loads and 45 ACP is cheap for practice. And because of the separate cylinder it helps avoid some of the accuracy problems from just adding moon clips.

Not sure I'd be comfortable carrying a Single Action revolver though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcliff View Post
Glock 20 or 29 10mm is the answer to the question.
I was thinking 10mm too but there's not a lot of good options in California except for Glock, but I get pretty bad Glock knuckle from anything bigger than 9mm. I think I'd rather convert a 1911 to shoot 45 Super.
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Old 04-13-2019, 10:16 PM
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If there are snakes around - revolver. Hard to beat .357 Magnum anyway, it is all around caliber.
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Old 04-13-2019, 10:30 PM
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Revolvers do jam- and malfunction too

The old guys recall why police departments and the military switched to semi autos....


Shoot what is fun
Shoot what you enjoy

Snakes- most of the time- let them be- they can continue to eat mice and critters


Grab a tarp to catch the semi auto casings - keep to reload later or sell the brass to those who reload.


The biggest threat in the desert is dehydration
Second would be the 2 legged vermin

For those who never had an ejection rod loosen in the crane and tie up a revolver... it happens.

Know if yours tightens clockwise or counter. Sometime you can tighten it in place and then open the revolver.

Hammer springs break- or weaken so that you get light strikes when firing it DA



True- revolver magnum loads are or can be more powerful than any standard semi auto.

460 Rowland, 50 desert eagle would be exceptions.


The .44 mag loaded with light 180 grain JHP up to solid lead bullets over 300 grains give you a lot of variety

Sometimes you can turn it
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Old 04-13-2019, 10:42 PM
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Oh boy. You will almost never need a gun for protection from a snake or a bear. You may need it to deter an intruder. Carry what you are comfortable shooting. If you can hit a rabbit with a handgun, you are quite the shooter.
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Old 04-14-2019, 12:20 AM
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Glock 29sf, 10mm hardcast ftw!
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Old 04-14-2019, 8:42 AM
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Carry what you are most comfortable with and what you shoot best.

I have been in the outdoors nearly all of my 57 years of my life. I have encountered plenty of rattlesnakes and never felt the need to kill one. When working at a summer camp, since I was a biologist, I got called if any were found. I picked them up, put them in a garbage can, and released them away from the camp. We never had a child bitten by a snake.

One time backpacking, I had a coyote take off with my shoe. The following year I was in the same area and found it. That was the worst coyote encounter I had.

I saw two mountain lions in my lifetime. I am sure I have been around many more.

I have been in bear country many times and shooed them away with no problems. Rocks and yelling usually does the trick.

I am not stupid though, bears are wildly unpredictable. The majority of black bears will back down and leave if a person stands his ground and makes noise, or even acts a bit aggressive, especially if they were approaching you. If you encounter them and upon noticing them, back away and go around, they tend to ignore you.

There are those outliers that for whatever reason just decide this is they day and you are their prey and there is nothing you can do to change their mind.

If you talk to the overwhelming majority of people what is the minimum caliber for a bear gun you will hear .357 magnum.

A .22 long was good enough for Bella Twin but I would not suggest anyone intentionally carry a single shot .22 rifle for bear protection. https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/bel...#axzz5l5N6noNo

If you read more about the accounts you provide, those who successfully used a 9 mm got lucky with shot placement or the bear left after being wounded, returned to be shot again, or the person was able to unload the mag into the bear very quickly.

Read about other encounters where the victim only gets one shot off before being attacked. How many used a 9 mm and failed. There are many stories in that category.

There is a big difference between good enough and best. A .22 can be good enough for HD but it is not best.

My outdoors gun is a 10 mm. I like my G29 with the G20 mag so I can carry 15+1. It has been used for polar bears. It is also a good choice for the two legged predators. Since I am outdoors I do not worry about over penetration. The bad guy will have two holes per bullet to bleed from.

Again, carry what you shoot best and what you are most comfortable with. In CA, bears are not much of a concern. Just do not fool yourself to think that 9 mm is good enough for bear defense.
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Old 04-14-2019, 10:41 AM
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I have safe guidelines when choosing to share the great outdoors with the animals.

I realize that I'm the intruder and it's their backyard. I act accordingly.

I don't scare/surprise rattlers with my feet/legs. I always give them a heads up with a 6' walking stick.
They tend to strike at the stick first when surprised.

I don't come between a sow and her cub/s or approach close enough to threaten them. They hate that.

I don't disturb a bear while it's eating. They hate that too.

I always keep my head on a swivel and do an occasional stop/look/listen while hiking.

I always carry a boom stick. I have not been held up by a bear attempting to rob me of a pick-a-nick basket in a lot of years here in CA. So my 9mm ccw is my American Express card. I never leave home without it.

Bears in CA are really not the big danger people think they are. I do avoid places that bears see and at times calmly interact with people regularly. National parks/pay to play places I usually avoid. I like that bears have a healthy fear of people. It's when they don't fear humans really concerns me.

...and then there's the cartel contractor pot growers that spring up out of nowhere. That concerns me most. YOYO then. You've just entered "shoot/shovel/STFU" territory.
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Old 04-14-2019, 10:51 AM
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Revolvers make great companions. If a person can't get it done with 6, they need more range time
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Old 04-14-2019, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremiah12 View Post
Carry what you are most comfortable with and what you shoot best.

I have been in the outdoors nearly all of my 57 years of my life. I have encountered plenty of rattlesnakes and never felt the need to kill one. When working at a summer camp, since I was a biologist, I got called if any were found. I picked them up, put them in a garbage can, and released them away from the camp. We never had a child bitten by a snake.

One time backpacking, I had a coyote take off with my shoe. The following year I was in the same area and found it. That was the worst coyote encounter I had.

I saw two mountain lions in my lifetime. I am sure I have been around many more.

I have been in bear country many times and shooed them away with no problems. Rocks and yelling usually does the trick.

I am not stupid though, bears are wildly unpredictable. The majority of black bears will back down and leave if a person stands his ground and makes noise, or even acts a bit aggressive, especially if they were approaching you. If you encounter them and upon noticing them, back away and go around, they tend to ignore you.

There are those outliers that for whatever reason just decide this is they day and you are their prey and there is nothing you can do to change their mind.

If you talk to the overwhelming majority of people what is the minimum caliber for a bear gun you will hear .357 magnum.

A .22 long was good enough for Bella Twin but I would not suggest anyone intentionally carry a single shot .22 rifle for bear protection. https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/bel...#axzz5l5N6noNo

If you read more about the accounts you provide, those who successfully used a 9 mm got lucky with shot placement or the bear left after being wounded, returned to be shot again, or the person was able to unload the mag into the bear very quickly.

Read about other encounters where the victim only gets one shot off before being attacked. How many used a 9 mm and failed. There are many stories in that category.

There is a big difference between good enough and best. A .22 can be good enough for HD but it is not best.

My outdoors gun is a 10 mm. I like my G29 with the G20 mag so I can carry 15+1. It has been used for polar bears. It is also a good choice for the two legged predators. Since I am outdoors I do not worry about over penetration. The bad guy will have two holes per bullet to bleed from.

Again, carry what you shoot best and what you are most comfortable with. In CA, bears are not much of a concern. Just do not fool yourself to think that 9 mm is good enough for bear defense.
Serious question. What about 9mm +p hard cast 147g for black bear? Probably not ideal obviously, but does seem like a bone crushing round.
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Old 04-14-2019, 11:58 AM
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https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/09/1...k-just-barely/

The bear released his lower thigh, then grabbed his calf, just below the knee. The shot missed the spine. Man and bear are still moving fast, but in Bridger’s hyper-aware state, time slowed. He saw an opportunity for a headshot and pressed the trigger on the GLOCK.

Click.

Later, Bridger found bear hair between the guide rod and the slide of the G20 pistol. The hair prevented the slide from returning into battery. Bridger knew he should still have ammunition left in the magazine, so he racked the slide and saw a live round eject in slow motion.

Fractions of a second later, another opportunity for a head shot presented itself. The bear ripped at his leg. As the bear tried to tear off his calf muscle, Bridger saw his chance and pressed the trigger.

Blam!

Man and bear went down together, rolling and sliding a bit further down the slope.

Revolvers don’t fail to go into battery...GP100 10mm 3”! of course longer barrel more velocity if you prefer...Note: I also like my G20/21sf very very much...but if I had to put the muzzle into a thick furry head I want it to go bang 6x’s if needed
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Old 04-14-2019, 2:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFBART View Post
https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/09/1...k-just-barely/

The bear released his lower thigh, then grabbed his calf, just below the knee. The shot missed the spine. Man and bear are still moving fast, but in Bridger’s hyper-aware state, time slowed. He saw an opportunity for a headshot and pressed the trigger on the GLOCK.

Click.

Later, Bridger found bear hair between the guide rod and the slide of the G20 pistol. The hair prevented the slide from returning into battery. Bridger knew he should still have ammunition left in the magazine, so he racked the slide and saw a live round eject in slow motion.

Fractions of a second later, another opportunity for a head shot presented itself. The bear ripped at his leg. As the bear tried to tear off his calf muscle, Bridger saw his chance and pressed the trigger.

Blam!

Man and bear went down together, rolling and sliding a bit further down the slope.

Revolvers don’t fail to go into battery...GP100 10mm 3”! of course longer barrel more velocity if you prefer...Note: I also like my G20/21sf very very much...but if I had to put the muzzle into a thick furry head I want it to go bang 6x’s if needed
You need to read from the start. There was so much fail. Bridger fired off two or three rounds first and then turned and ran. He was reluctant to shoot at first for fear of shooting one of his dogs.

Lets back up even more, he was an idiot because he was walking his dogs and they took off after the bear. Hunting dogs and bears do not mix. It was fall and that bear was fattening up for the winter. It was not in a good mood. When he sees the bear what does he do, he pulls out his cell phone because he wants to take a picture of the cute bear, it is a rare cinnamon bear. He just had to have a picture. Yep, his dogs are barking at the bear, pissing it off, and rather than calling them off and getting the heck out of dodge, he gets closer to get a picture.

Then he realizes the bear is pissed by its body language. Wow, you think? Bears are top predators and this one probably new that the dogs were associated with this person. The fastest way to get rid of the dogs is to get rid of the human. It could have been Bridger was standing in the best path of escape. The story does not say where the yapping dogs were.

I grew up with animals. I love dogs. I grew up riding horses. I am a biologist because of my love of animals. I got it from my mother. I also learned from her that human life is is more important that animal life and if I have to kill my dog to save my life, my dog dies, period. I will feel like **** afterwards, but I will be alive to get over it. She also had a rule, if a dog snapped at a person, it was immediately put down. No second chances. She put down two dogs she loved very much because they snapped at her grandchildren.

Two or 3 rounds of 10 mm did not stop the charging bear. Even a 4th one after the bear first tackled him did not stop the bear. It took a 5th round up close and personal to stop the attack. So most people who say carry a revolver are carrying a 5 shot revolver. If it was a .357, it likely would have similar energy to the JHP critical defense load Bridger was carrying so he would still have been SOL. At a distance, he likely could have empty all 5 rounds and still not put that bear down. If it were a .44 mag, might have a better chance but again, what if a few rounds miss.

So Bridger made two more mistakes, he did not have a full mag because he believed some BS about spring set, and he went out with ammo for 2 legged predators and not appropriate for bears. He needed hardhats that would penetrate and crush bone and do some real damage, not penetrate a few inches and cause a few superficial wounds and piss the bear off even more. Bears are tough and you need a deep penetrating round that does some real damage.

No matter what handgun one chooses, there are trade-offs.

Many Alaskan guides are going to the G20 because they can carry 15+1. They are not facing 1 bear, they often time face multiple bears, especially salmon fishing guides. Nordic countries have equipped their military polar patrols with the G20 for polar bear defense and they have worked very well.

For me, I have some arthritis and neurological damage from a stroke I suffered 10 years ago. I have continued doing physical therapy on my left hand and my hand strength will never improve over what it is. I am left handed and my brain will never make the connections to allow me to shoot right handed safely again like I could before the stroke. In fact before the stroke, I shot handguns right handed.

I do not have the hand or finger strength to shoot a DA revolver, especially a .44 mag in a size that I would feel comfortable carrying for a backcountry self-defense gun. I still enjoy the outdoors. I have a highly polished trigger on my G29 and a 3.5 lb ghost connector and I can shoot it will. I do have a 22 lb recoil spring and carry Underwood 220 grain hardcast for backcountry use. I can accurately empty a 15 mag in 10 seconds. It hurts but I can do it. My son's S&W .357, by the time I pull the trigger, I am shooting high.

Bridget broke several other rules for dealing with a pissed off bear. You never run because you cannot outrun a bear. Most charges are bluffs. He had a gun so you keep shooting. Head shots are hit and miss so center mass are the best bet if you have time and he had time to get at least 2 shots off. Had he stayed put and pulled the trigger some more he could have gotten at least two more off and one of them would have been a head shot when the bear would have been in front of him.

Another rule of dealing with a pissed off bear, put something between you and the bear. In the forest trees are great cover. Put a tree between you and a charging pissed off bear and the bear will likely slam into the tree head first. I have witnessed this myself. It stuns the bear and it usually just walks off. In desperation, side step at the last moment. You have a gun, do whatever it takes to stay out of the way of the bear. He is big and has way too much momentum to change direction as quickly as you can. This buys you a few more precious seconds to fire off a few more rounds.

Anybody can search the internet and find one incident where one particular gun did the job or did not do the job.

I guess that the many years I took martial arts taught me to keep my head in the fight and to use the tools I had at my disposal. I used them to maximize their advantages and minimize their disadvantages. No tool used for defense is perfect. For me, my I do not want to have to reload. I hit what I aim for, I have been in two SD shootings. I know that in real life that often times there is another predator waiting in the wings once you fight off the first one and I want to be ready, not unprepared because my gun is empty.
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Anyone can look around and see the damage to the state and country inflicted by bad politicians.

A vote is clearly much more dangerous than a gun.

Why advocate restrictions on one right (voting) without comparable restrictions on another (self defense) (or, why not say 'Be a U.S. citizen' as the requirement for CCW)?

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Old 04-14-2019, 3:49 PM
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Outdoor handgun for me is a revolver unless I have the urge to pack a 10mm. 357 revolver is superb shot loads for snake, 110 grain for small game, 140-150 as all around, 160-180 grain for cougar or black bear defense.

I usually shoot revolvers when I’m by myself for a range session. I hate chasing my spent brass. My kids are the only ones wanting to shoot the cool bottom feeders.
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Old 04-14-2019, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
Oh the heck with it! Carry one revolver and one semiauto. But don't forget to bring a 3rd...just for backup.
I think this is the right answer. It might also be prudent to carry a shotgun in your pack when rifle hunting, in case you scare up some quail on the trail and want to shoot one. Maybe a second rifle for backup along with the shotgun and the three handguns.

Also carry four knives. One for skinning, one with a hook for unzipping the animal, a general purpose camp knife for all uses/bushcraft with a 12" fixed blade on the belt, and a tiny victorinox for cleaning fingernails.

Don't forget your tent gun when camping. Best policy is to use your truck gun cause you don't want to be seen as a nut carrying around too many guns.

Last edited by Whiterabbit; 04-14-2019 at 5:26 PM..
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Old 04-14-2019, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
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Glock 20 or 29 10mm is the answer to the question.
This ^^^^^ Very hard to Beat a 10mm .
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Old 04-14-2019, 4:59 PM
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I use a revolver when hiking, etc. I like putting shot loads in the first chaber, followed by solid copper loads. I handload, so I make my own shotshells for 38/.357, .44 and .45 Colt. Depending on where I am determines which caliber I carry. I do love .41 mag but have not yet reloaded shotshells for that one as it gets more complex.

Yes - I can buy shotshells for 9mm and .45 ACP, but I do not think they will run the action.
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Old 04-14-2019, 5:16 PM
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My outdoor carry gun is a .44 Special - added bragging rights for being a Colt SAA also...

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Old 04-14-2019, 6:27 PM
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I agree the answer is 10mm. If you get the glock 20, you can shoot .40 out of it. I’m not a glock fan boy, just really appreciate the logic.
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Old 04-14-2019, 6:46 PM
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Why would anyone go into the woods when snakes are out????

Since there are no snakes out 10mm is the obvious answer.
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Old 04-14-2019, 7:42 PM
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The best straightforward no BS article I've read.

Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 incidents by Caliber.

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/def...#axzz5l88gkOfL

The follow weapon(s) / caliber(s) used in no particular order.

357 Mag.....3 times
9mm.....4 times
44 Mag.....12 times
41 Mag.....2 times
454 Casull.....1 time
45 Super.....1 time
40.....3 times
45ACP.....4 times
10mm..... 1 time

3 times, unknown handgun calibers were use.

.338 rifle 45acp 44 mag were used in same shooting.

45-70 rifle 44 mag used in same shooting.

44 mag & 357 mag were used in same shooting.


If I were in the woods, for whatever reason, my choice would be a 44 mag DA revolver with heavy flat nose cast round ammo with 2 reloads in a chest rig.

And a 22LR revolver in a secured OWB holster loaded with snake shot.
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Old 04-14-2019, 7:44 PM
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There is no reason to shoot a snake. Someone claiming they needed to shoot it is FOS.

Black bears are also not a serious threat, however, the possibility exists so I won't argue that. Same with mountain lions.

Buffalo Bore makes what they call Outdoorsman loads in several pistol cartridges which have proven to be excellent. A guide killed a grizzly with 9mm Outdoorsman.

A light weight handgun, something under 20 oz is great because you'll actually carry it. Kahr CW9, and the Ruger LCRx3, are two light weight guns that make good carry guns for the woods.
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Old 04-15-2019, 7:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smittty View Post
There is no reason to shoot a snake. Someone claiming they needed to shoot it is FOS.

Black bears are also not a serious threat, however, the possibility exists so I won't argue that. Same with mountain lions.

Buffalo Bore makes what they call Outdoorsman loads in several pistol cartridges which have proven to be excellent. A guide killed a grizzly with 9mm Outdoorsman.

A light weight handgun, something under 20 oz is great because you'll actually carry it. Kahr CW9, and the Ruger LCRx3, are two light weight guns that make good carry guns for the woods.
If a rattler just happens to come around my backyard while my dogs are playing I don’t care if I have a shot load or shovel, that snake is dead. So call me FOS for keeping my dogs safe.
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Old 04-15-2019, 8:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JTROKS View Post
If a rattler just happens to come around my backyard while my dogs are playing I don’t care if I have a shot load or shovel, that snake is dead. So call me FOS for keeping my dogs safe.
That's not what we're talking about. If you're on public land - ie their backyard - there is no reason to kill a snake.

In the scenarios where you would get bit, a gun is of no use. Unlike bears, snakes only bite out of self defense so it if you see it just leave it alone!
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Old 04-15-2019, 8:23 AM
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If a rattler just happens to come around my backyard while my dogs are playing I don’t care if I have a shot load or shovel, that snake is dead. So call me FOS for keeping my dogs safe.
Damn right!
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Old 04-15-2019, 8:33 AM
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I can load a box of 38 plinking loads, with my own boolits that I cast myself, for almost as cheap as 22LR. Seriously. If you reload, 38 Target Loads are very economical. And the Brass will last almost forever.
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Old 04-15-2019, 8:34 AM
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I’ve had rattler situations where it was safest to shoot one. Me and a buddy were dove hunting sitting on a water trough blasting away and the rattler came from under the slab directly behind my buddies leg into full coil and rattle inches from his boot. It was likely to strike if he moved suddenly. Granted it’s the only time we’ve needed to shoot one but it does happen. Sometimes you end up too close to safely retreat.

I’d carry a Glock 29.
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mlentzner View Post
That's not what we're talking about. If you're on public land - ie their backyard - there is no reason to kill a snake.

In the scenarios where you would get bit, a gun is of no use. Unlike bears, snakes only bite out of self defense so it if you see it just leave it alone!
If a snake is out sunnin’ to bring its heat up and I see no threat then I’m fine with enjoying the view and observing the snake. If the snake happens to slither into camp with my kids and dogs running around then it’s a different story.

Reports say approximately 7000 people get bit by poisonous snakes per year. Some are “Hold my Beer” incidents, some are DIY removal, and some are just out playing outdoors. I’ve seen rattle snakes, some are sluggish and some are highly alert. To call someone FOS because they shot a rattlesnake is clear ignorant of the situation leading to the demise of the snake. I understand about venturing into wildlife habitat. If I swim in coastal beaches of California there is a chance for a shark encounter, main reason why I’d rather stay on the boat and use a fishing pole.
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:51 PM
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[QUOTE=jeremiah12;22899616]You need to read from the start. There was so much fail. Bridger fired off two or three rounds first and then turned and ran. He was reluctant to shoot at first for fear of shooting one of his dogs.

Lets back up even more, he was an idiot because he was walking his dogs and they took off after the bear. Hunting dogs and bears do not mix. It was fall and that bear was fattening up for the winter. It was not in a good mood. When he sees the bear what does he do, he pulls out his cell phone because he wants to take a picture of the cute bear, it is a rare cinnamon bear. He just had to have a picture. Yep, his dogs are barking at the bear, pissing it off, and rather than calling them off and getting the heck out of dodge, he gets closer to get a picture.

Then he realizes the bear is pissed by its body language. Wow, you think? Bears are top predators and this one probably new that the dogs were associated with this person. The fastest way to get rid of the dogs is to get rid of the human. It could have been Bridger was standing in the best path of escape. The story does not say where the yapping dogs were.

I grew up with animals. I love dogs. I grew up riding horses. I am a biologist because of my love of animals. I got it from my mother. I also learned from her that human life is is more important that animal life and if I have to kill my dog to save my life, my dog dies, period. I will feel like **** afterwards, but I will be alive to get over it. She also had a rule, if a dog snapped at a person, it was immediately put down. No second chances. She put down two dogs she loved very much because they snapped at her grandchildren.

Two or 3 rounds of 10 mm did not stop the charging bear. Even a 4th one after the bear first tackled him did not stop the bear. It took a 5th round up close and personal to stop the attack. So most people who say carry a revolver are carrying a 5 shot revolver. If it was a .357, it likely would have similar energy to the JHP critical defense load Bridger was carrying so he would still have been SOL. At a distance, he likely could have empty all 5 rounds and still not put that bear down. If it were a .44 mag, might have a better chance but again, what if a few rounds miss.

So Bridger made two more mistakes, he did not have a full mag because he believed some BS about spring set, and he went out with ammo for 2 legged predators and not appropriate for bears. He needed hardhats that would penetrate and crush bone and do some real damage, not penetrate a few inches and cause a few superficial wounds and piss the bear off even more. Bears are tough and you need a deep penetrating round that does some real damage.

No matter what handgun one chooses, there are trade-offs.

Many Alaskan guides are going to the G20 because they can carry 15+1. They are not facing 1 bear, they often time face multiple bears, especially salmon fishing guides. Nordic countries have equipped their military polar patrols with the G20 for polar bear defense and they have worked very well.

For me, I have some arthritis and neurological damage from a stroke I suffered 10 years ago. I have continued doing physical therapy on my left hand and my hand strength will never improve over what it is. I am left handed and my brain will never make the connections to allow me to shoot right handed safely again like I could before the stroke. In fact before the stroke, I shot handguns right handed.

I do not have the hand or finger strength to shoot a DA revolver, especially a .44 mag in a size that I would feel comfortable carrying for a backcountry self-defense gun. I still enjoy the outdoors. I have a highly polished trigger on my G29 and a 3.5 lb ghost connector and I can shoot it will. I do have a 22 lb recoil spring and carry Underwood 220 grain hardcast for backcountry use. I can accurately empty a 15 mag in 10 seconds. It hurts but I can do it. My son's S&W .357, by the time I pull the trigger, I am shooting high.

Bridget broke several other rules for dealing with a pissed off bear. You never run because you cannot outrun a bear. Most charges are bluffs. He had a gun so you keep shooting. Head shots are hit and miss so center mass are the best bet if you have time and he had time to get at least 2 shots off. Had he stayed put and pulled the trigger some more he could have gotten at least two more off and one of them would have been a head shot when the bear would have been in front of him.

Another rule of dealing with a pissed off bear, put something between you and the bear. In the forest trees are great cover. Put a tree between you and a charging pissed off bear and the bear will likely slam into the tree head first. I have witnessed this myself. It stuns the bear and it usually just walks off. In desperation, side step at the last moment. You have a gun, do whatever it takes to stay out of the way of the bear. He is big and has way too much momentum to change direction as quickly as you can. This buys you a few more precious seconds to fire off a few more rounds.

Anybody can search the internet and find one incident where one particular gun did the job or did not do the job.

I guess that the many years I took martial arts taught me to keep my head in the fight and to use the tools I had at my disposal. I used them to maximize their advantages and minimize their disadvantages. No tool used for defense is perfect. For me, my I do not want to have to reload. I hit what I aim for, I have been in two SD shootings. I know that in real life that often times there is another predator waiting in the wings once you fight off the first one and I want to be ready, not unprepared because my gun is empty.[/

Wow...Namaste Jeremiah12 !
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Old 04-16-2019, 8:24 AM
mlentzner mlentzner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTROKS View Post
If a snake is out sunnin’ to bring its heat up and I see no threat then I’m fine with enjoying the view and observing the snake. If the snake happens to slither into camp with my kids and dogs running around then it’s a different story.

Reports say approximately 7000 people get bit by poisonous snakes per year. Some are “Hold my Beer” incidents, some are DIY removal, and some are just out playing outdoors. I’ve seen rattle snakes, some are sluggish and some are highly alert. To call someone FOS because they shot a rattlesnake is clear ignorant of the situation leading to the demise of the snake. I understand about venturing into wildlife habitat. If I swim in coastal beaches of California there is a chance for a shark encounter, main reason why I’d rather stay on the boat and use a fishing pole.
There's no quarrel here. I would never say a rattler isn't a dangerous animal and there are no scenarios where you would have to kill it. I wasn't the FOS commenter anyway.

It's the "If you see a snake, you kill it" people I have a problem with. I'm guessing the OP of the FOS comment was talking about the same people.
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