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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 10-12-2017, 7:49 PM
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Default NRA traitors so support GOA

Traitors may be a strong word but you get the idea. I believe the main reason that the NRA has recently grown a spine and not shown more of its true colors such as with the bump stocks is the Gun Owners of America. The GOA has been nipping on the NRAs heels for some time. GOA has been gaining members and influence. This has moved the NRA to the right. The GOA does not need to move because it is already there. Check them out. Watch some of Erich Pratt's interviews. Erich really takes apart the narrative that they try to spin on TV. Erich reminds me alot of Donald Trump. Become a member. Lifetime membership is only $500 and can be made in payments! The GOA is the only legit national alternative to the NRA.
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Old 10-12-2017, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike512usa View Post
The GOA is the only legit national alternative to the NRA.
If I had a dollar for every time the gun grabbers attacked the GOA out of fear for the power they wielded I'd be flat broke. The GOA is a good organization, but it's hardly a "legit national alternative to the NRA."
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Old 10-12-2017, 8:34 PM
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I'll check them out. The NRA does some good work, but they don't do half of what they could. I've been very frustrated with them for several years and my money has been going elsewhere. If GOA will actually fight, they'll get my money.

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Old 10-12-2017, 10:35 PM
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Oh yeah, I will get right on that.
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Old 10-13-2017, 1:09 AM
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Support whatever group you want, but "nipping at thr NRA's heels"
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Old 10-13-2017, 6:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
If I had a dollar for every time the gun grabbers attacked the GOA out of fear for the power they wielded I'd be flat broke. The GOA is a good organization, but it's hardly a "legit national alternative to the NRA."

Why? Are you saying that they are not an alternative or not legit. I know of no other national gun rights organization that comes close to the membership numbers, clout or organization that the NRA has. The GOA is the closest there is to my knowledge. If there is another please let me know.

Now you might laugh at me using wikipedia but neither organization is going to give out membership numbers so it at least gives us a ball park idea. Wiki lists the NRA at 5 million members and GOA at 1.5 million members. I think both are inflated and that GOA is highly inflated. But if GOA is even just a tenth of the size of the NRA that is impressive to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Owners_of_America
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...ion#Membership
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Old 10-13-2017, 7:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike512usa View Post
Traitors may be a strong word but you get the idea. I believe the main reason that the NRA has recently grown a spine and not shown more of its true colors such as with the bump stocks is the Gun Owners of America. The GOA has been nipping on the NRAs heels for some time. GOA has been gaining members and influence. This has moved the NRA to the right. The GOA does not need to move because it is already there. Check them out. Watch some of Erich Pratt's interviews. Erich really takes apart the narrative that they try to spin on TV. Erich reminds me alot of Donald Trump. Become a member. Lifetime membership is only $500 and can be made in payments! The GOA is the only legit national alternative to the NRA.
Sad that you want to pit NRA membership against GOA membership. Instead of fighting each other we should encourage everyone to join and support both.
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Old 10-13-2017, 7:03 AM
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Support whatever group you want, but "nipping at thr NRA's heels"

I don't know you sir but your bottom tag line seems to explain your post to me completely. I happen to be a life member of both the NRA and the GOA. I support the NRA but I feel that the NRA is more than willing to deal away our rights. The slide fire incident is just the most recent example. The GOA does not deal and I stand by my original post.
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Old 10-13-2017, 7:08 AM
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Sad that you want to pit NRA membership against GOA membership. Instead of fighting each other we should encourage everyone to join and support both.

That was not my intention. Sorry if it came off that way. I do feel that supporting the GOA helps keep the NRA fighting and not dealing our rights away. As I have stated, I am a Life Member of both though the life membership for my children that I was purchasing is currently on hold. I would like people to know that their is an alternative out there.
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Old 10-13-2017, 7:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike512usa View Post
Why? Are you saying that they are not an alternative or not legit. I know of no other national gun rights organization that comes close to the membership numbers, clout or organization that the NRA has. The GOA is the closest there is to my knowledge. If there is another please let me know.
Neither. They obviously are an "alternative," and they are "legit," but they are not a "legit alternative to the NRA" as you claim. The GOA has nowhere close to the clout and power of the NRA. They are barely a blip on the gun grabbers' radar, whereas the NRA is the 800 lb. gorilla that the gun grabbers fear, blame, harangue, and vilify at every opportunity. And they do this for good reason; the NRA has been, and continues to be, highly effective in blocking the gun grabbers' political agenda and foiling their ultimate goal of disarming America. The results speak for themselves.
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Old 10-13-2017, 7:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
Neither. They obviously are an "alternative," and they are "legit," but they are not a "legit alternative to the NRA" as you claim. The GOA has nowhere close to the clout and power of the NRA. They are barely a blip on the gun grabbers' radar, whereas the NRA is the 800 lb. gorilla that the gun grabbers fear, blame, harangue, and vilify at every opportunity. And they do this for good reason; the NRA has been, and continues to be, highly effective in blocking the gun grabbers' political agenda and foiling their ultimate goal of disarming America. The results speak for themselves.
Thank you for the clarification. I agree with some of what you state but not all. God Bless America.
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Old 10-13-2017, 7:36 AM
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But but the NRA is playing chess not checkers
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Old 10-13-2017, 7:50 AM
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If these organizations were smart they would all join up together to increase their numbers and support. Instaed they fight among themselves.
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Old 10-13-2017, 7:57 AM
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Yep. Chess not checkers. Difficult concept for some to follow.
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Old 10-13-2017, 8:46 AM
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The GOA is the “mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore” alternative to the NRA. But what is their legislative record independent of the NRA.
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:33 AM
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Yep. Chess not checkers. Difficult concept for some to follow.
And what the hell is caving on gun rights getting us? We're sacrificing a bishop and opening the door to a semi auto ban, for what? They couldn't even get SHARE passed with a Republican house, senate and pro gun president.
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Old 10-13-2017, 1:10 PM
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IMHO, I support ANY and ALL organizations that support the 2A, because that is my best chance to keep my rights to bear arms. I'm not going to pick and choose and may not agree with every single one of their decisions, but as long as the good outweighs the bad, they will get my support. I believe that's how all gun owners should look at it, because without each and every pro-2A organization fighting at the government level for us, GUN OWNERS ARE SCREWED! We win some and we lose some, but we shouldn't blame the pro-2A organizations for our losses and should blame the government. California is already really bad but we would be way worse without these organizations. I support NRA & GOA at a federal or country level and I support CRPA & GOC at the state level. Both federal & state levels are equally important for our gun rights. The 2A wouldn't survive without both levels.
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Old 10-13-2017, 1:19 PM
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Let not be opposed. Both good organizations. Let us work together to support the 2nd amendment.
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Old 10-13-2017, 1:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Sad that you want to pit NRA membership against GOA membership. Instead of fighting each other we should encourage everyone to join and support both.
This. If every NRA member was also a GOA member, our clout would appear to be double and that can't do anything but help us in the long run.
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Old 10-13-2017, 2:50 PM
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This. If every NRA member was also a GOA member, our clout would appear to be double and that can't do anything but help us in the long run.
I do both! As a side note a GOA license frame seems to discourage tailgaters!
NRA license frame could do the same but they haven't sent me one like Gunoweners of America.
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Old 10-13-2017, 3:30 PM
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Whenever the NRA tries to be reasonable, the Gun Owners of America becomes more unreasonable and that pushes the NRA. [Now] you’ve got Gun Owners of America which is way to the -- I guess you would say the “right’ -- of what the NRA is. It makes it hard for the NRA to be reasonable. (Senator Reid on Nevada Public Radio, April 6, 2013)

This thread was not intended to be NRA vs GOA. I am happy to accept any one willing to fight for our rights. I do not feel that the NRA has some grand strategy that they are holding on to. Once the precedent to ban bump stocks has been done because they increase the rate of fire what is next? Trigger jobs, large capacity mags, mags period? It is not that big of a leap.
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Old 10-13-2017, 3:32 PM
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Gun Owners of America showed with one email alert that it could help flood the phone lines on Capitol Hill days before the Senate vote. -- National Public Radio, December 26, 2013

PBS’s news special ... credits GOA with dragging Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV) into the light when he tried to cloak his 2013 gun control push with words like “compromise” and “loopholes.” -- Breitbart, January 8, 2015


So yes, I am a fan of the GOA.

Last edited by Mike512usa; 10-13-2017 at 3:37 PM..
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Old 10-13-2017, 5:58 PM
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But but the NRA is playing chess not checkers
Hopefully that means you're in GOA. As opposed to being in neither.
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Old 10-13-2017, 6:05 PM
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Fifty years ago yesterday I sat in Fenway and watched the Red Sox lose game 7 to the Cardinals, so I'll use a baseball reference.

During the 1967 "Impossible Dream" season Carl Yastrzemski and Elston Howard combined for a total of 45 home runs - Yaz hit 44 and Elston hit .... 1. Not exactly "nipping at his heels" but I'd rather have had it than not.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike512usa View Post
Traitors may be a strong word but you get the idea. I believe the main reason that the NRA has recently grown a spine and not shown more of its true colors such as with the bump stocks is the Gun Owners of America. The GOA has been nipping on the NRAs heels for some time. GOA has been gaining members and influence. This has moved the NRA to the right. The GOA does not need to move because it is already there. Check them out. Watch some of Erich Pratt's interviews. Erich really takes apart the narrative that they try to spin on TV. Erich reminds me alot of Donald Trump. Become a member. Lifetime membership is only $500 and can be made in payments! The GOA is the only legit national alternative to the NRA.
I am a GOA Life Member.

I believe in Pratt's "No Compromise Since 1975".

NRA is BIG potatoes, but caves a lot on gun rights.

GOA is small potatoes but never gives even an inch to the antis. Not EVER!
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:21 PM
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I am a GOA Life Member.

I believe in Pratt's "No Compromise Since 1975".

NRA is BIG potatoes, but caves a lot on gun rights.
A lot? Ok, what are the top 5 "caves"?

-- Michael
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:28 PM
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I am a GOA Life Member.

I believe in Pratt's "No Compromise Since 1975".

NRA is BIG potatoes, but caves a lot on gun rights.

GOA is small potatoes but never gives even an inch to the antis. Not EVER!
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A lot? Ok, what are the top 5 "caves"?
And what specific results has the GOA achieved?
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Old 10-14-2017, 6:41 AM
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Hopefully that means you're in GOA. As opposed to being in neither.
Neither I have the 2Amedment, that cost nothing to join
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Old 10-14-2017, 7:16 AM
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To Swift04, You have it for the present. Without the handful of pro 2nd orgs. you might not have it long. I think both the NRA and GOA have a place at the table as well as CRPA, SAF, GOC and several others. Join and support as many as you can. When it's gone it won't be back in our lifetime.

PS. Your right " it cost nothing to join" but if you do nothing to protect your rights you may lose them.

Last edited by homelessdude; 10-14-2017 at 7:19 AM.. Reason: ps
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:38 AM
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And what specific results has the GOA achieved?
They stopped a lot of Obama gun control attempts.
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:45 AM
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A lot? Ok, what are the top 5 "caves"?

-- Michael
I don't know if I can name FIVE but the big one is that Wayne LaPierre has said supports ALL existing federal gun laws as they stand right now and doesn't appear to advocate for the repeal of the mostly anti-gun ones.

The only pro-gun federal gun law I can cite off hand is the SECOND AMENDMENT and that of course should NEVER be repealed.

Many as the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the National Firearms Act of 1934 are anti-gun and anti-2A.

If the Gun Owners of America, Ron Paul and I had OUR way, the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the National Firearms Act of 1934 would have been shredded a long time ago. The ATF would be disbanded as well.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/98/hr3892

La Pierre is also OK with restrictions on owing automatic weapons and has recently stated that the proposed "bump stock ban" is worth "considering looking into".
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:14 AM
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They stopped a lot of Obama gun control attempts.
This is good to know. Can you give any specifics? Which Obama gun control attempts did they stop? How did they do it? Did they do it on their own, or in conjunction with other gun rights organizations like the NRA?
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:26 PM
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This is good to know. Can you give any specifics? Which Obama gun control attempts did they stop? How did they do it? Did they do it on their own, or in conjunction with other gun rights organizations like the NRA?
They did it by pressuring Congress. They did it by informing their members as me to tell Congress to stop any and all Obama gun-grab attempts including expanded background checks at gun shows if my memory serves me correctly.
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Old 10-14-2017, 2:43 PM
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Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) says the National Rifle Association (NRA) is “bad, really bad” and the group Gun Owners of America is “even worse than bad.”

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...rica-worse-bad

The NRA is the 800lb gorilla but some of that is focused on outreach/education, etc. The NRA does a lot of good but is a large organization subject to manipulation/compromise. The GOA is more focused. The Second Amendment Foundation is awesome as well but it seems to me that Alan Gottlieb is the main driving force and I fear that without him the SAF would be a shell. The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is just a part of the umbrella of organizations under Gottlieb's care such as Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership & Keep and Bear Arms. The National Association for Gun Rights seems to be a total SCAM to enrich the people running it. That is the national landscape as I see it. My three choices to support would be GOA, NRA and SAF (in that order) plus whatever local organization. Of course we all have budget constraints.
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Old 10-14-2017, 2:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike512usa View Post
Traitors may be a strong word but you get the idea. I believe the main reason that the NRA has recently grown a spine and not shown more of its true colors such as with the bump stocks is the Gun Owners of America. The GOA has been nipping on the NRAs heels for some time. GOA has been gaining members and influence. This has moved the NRA to the right. The GOA does not need to move because it is already there. Check them out. Watch some of Erich Pratt's interviews. Erich really takes apart the narrative that they try to spin on TV. Erich reminds me alot of Donald Trump. Become a member. Lifetime membership is only $500 and can be made in payments! The GOA is the only legit national alternative to the NRA.
The OP must be anti gun since he is preaching "divide" right now. If we follow his advise, he will be able to "conquer" soon.

What did the NRA do with "bump stocks"? They could see the writing on the wall and asked ATF to re evaluate them in the hopes that it would be enough so that no new anti gun laws would be passed. Too many morons think the NRA should have defended bump stocks at all cost. They did not defend or condemn them. They just asked that ATF reviewed it's past determination.
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Old 10-14-2017, 3:17 PM
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The OP must be anti gun since he is preaching "divide" right now. If we follow his advise, he will be able to "conquer" soon.

What did the NRA do with "bump stocks"? They could see the writing on the wall and asked ATF to re evaluate them in the hopes that it would be enough so that no new anti gun laws would be passed. Too many morons think the NRA should have defended bump stocks at all cost. They did not defend or condemn them. They just asked that ATF reviewed it's past determination.
I bolded the best part of your post. Your assessment is spot on and while not pointing a finger at any member(s) here (that would be against the rules), I think the use of the term 'moron' is spot on as well.
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Old 10-14-2017, 5:13 PM
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According to the NRA/ILA website they are opposing a bump stock ban.
Now here comes an unpopular opinion: I really don't care if bump stocks are banned if we could have the legislation attached to the suppressor deregulation law or national CCW.
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Old 10-14-2017, 5:26 PM
DonaldBabbett DonaldBabbett is offline
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Originally Posted by Interloper View Post
According to the NRA/ILA website they are opposing a bump stock ban.
Now here comes an unpopular opinion: I really don't care if bump stocks are banned if we could have the legislation attached to the suppressor deregulation law or national CCW.

That might be some trade: swap bump stocks for silencers and national concealed carry. That is still a lesser evil (getting two out of three) than getting NONE of the three altogether.

Yes, I must confess, I have a much greater need to BOTH protect my hearing while shooting varmints all day long and be able to take my gun for protection every state I travel in than to be able to fire a self-loader Rambo-style to look cool.

Still, I doubt if even Gun Owners of America would go for that compromise.
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Old 10-14-2017, 5:29 PM
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elSquid elSquid is offline
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Originally Posted by DonaldBabbett View Post
I don't know if I can name FIVE but the big one is that Wayne LaPierre has said supports ALL existing federal gun laws as they stand right now and doesn't appear to advocate for the repeal of the mostly anti-gun ones.
You said "lots" yet have problems coming up with a single example.

As for repeal, the easy example is the NRAs push to remove silencers from the NFA. Were you not paying attention?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ers/102160750/

You say that GOA wants to repeal GCA and NFA...GOA has been around for 40(?) years, so why haven't they? Is GOA making big promises that they have no intention of keeping - in order to keep fundraising dollars coming in - or is the GOA basically ineffectual?

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Old 10-14-2017, 7:12 PM
Mike512usa Mike512usa is offline
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
The OP must be anti gun since he is preaching "divide" right now. If we follow his advise, he will be able to "conquer" soon.

What did the NRA do with "bump stocks"? They could see the writing on the wall and asked ATF to re evaluate them in the hopes that it would be enough so that no new anti gun laws would be passed. Too many morons think the NRA should have defended bump stocks at all cost. They did not defend or condemn them. They just asked that ATF reviewed it's past determination.

It is anti-gun or divide to try and inform people of the Gun Owners of America? Should we just blindly follow the NRA? What I am "preaching" is that we can support more than just the NRA. I am a Life Member of BOTH organizations. I would like to eventually become a member of the Second Amendment Foundation.

I guess that I moron by your definition because I do believe that the NRA should have defended bump stocks. Legislators are already talking about any device/means that increases the rate of fire for restrictions. As I read it that could even be a lighter trigger, etc.

I am done trying to explain myself. God Bless.
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