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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 10-04-2017, 12:26 AM
rob94133 rob94133 is offline
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Default Permit from other county for SF

Hi, I just joined this site. I have been trying to learn how to have self protection for my home and possibly myself while out in public. I've read that getting a carry permit is almost impossible. But I've also read that SF will honor carry permits if from another county in California. I am a resident in San Francisco and would like to get protection for my home, handgun, shotgun etc. Not sure whats allowed. I would like to also carry for protection also. I am a law abiding citizen. I'm a medical professional in the hospital here in the city and provide services for other hospitals in the east bay and such. I have become more concerned about my safety here as I had a roommate I had to have leave because he started on drugs and alcohol then lost his job and stopped paying rent. It took me 4 months before I was able to get him out. During those 4 months he had less than desirable people over the house all the time. Then I found out through talking with them that they all served a good deal of time behind bars at maximum security prison, San Quentin. He would not leave on his own and when I got him out it was not pretty. At any rate they vowed they would end my life since I got him out which meant him and his friends had no where to squat and do drugs. It was a nightmare here for a long time. I almost moved out. But I was able to save my place. I went and filed a report that my life was threatned but told theres not much they could do with verbal theats. That leaves me waiting for something to happen before the police can do something. Today I seen one of them standing on the corner of my street, felt like he was seeing if I still lived here. It was almost a year since I got them out. So now I've called my local department and told them of this supsicious person. They drove around the area and did not find him. They called me back and told me they would continue to drive around ithrough the night. I feel like a sitting duck. Sleep with a knife and a wooden dowel. Hard to sleep. I have to be up in a couple hours for work and cant sleep. I don't know if I'm allowed to own a firearm of any kind like a handgun or shotgun or any gun. Plus I feel I am going to walk outside and they will be waiting around a corner or something. Cant believe I moved to this beatuful city and ran into this. I'm not sure what to do at this point. Living under these circumstances leaves me feeling helpless and waiting to get hurt or killed. Theres about 5 of them, all on drugs and I think all but 1 has done between 5-10 years and dont really care about going back. I look forward to hearing back from anyone so I can feel like I have a chance. I live in North Beach and if anyone knows how to post this message in the LE forum so they could read it maybe they can help also, or let me know how to post this there. I hope this is the right forum for this. Its my first post. I also want to add that I was born here, 40 something guy that moved here from the east coast about 5 years ago for this job. Thanks for listening.

Last edited by rob94133; 10-04-2017 at 12:33 AM.. Reason: Missed information
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:30 AM
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Nothing stopping you from buying cameras, a shotgun, and a safe.
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:53 AM
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  #4  
Old 10-04-2017, 1:11 AM
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CA law does not allow a sheriff or police chief to issue CCW to anyone who does not live in his/her city or county.

Since you live in SF, only SFPD or SFSD could legally issue to you, and those agencies do not issue.

So, legally going armed in public is almost certainly not in your future so long as you live in the city.

You can, however, buy a gun and keep it at home.

ETA: if you live in a place where you can and do get CA CCW, it will be valid in SF as well as all the other cities and counties in CA.
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The Legislature is in recess. We're immune from most further mischief until the next session begins, late December 2017.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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Last edited by Librarian; 10-04-2017 at 12:25 PM..
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Old 10-04-2017, 3:05 AM
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You will have to have your residence down for somewhere else that are ccw friendly.
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Old 10-04-2017, 3:18 AM
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You are sol . Buy a shotgun for home.
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Old 10-04-2017, 8:51 AM
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For all of the reasons you mentioned, it is time to move to a new city...
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Old 10-05-2017, 7:46 AM
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Default For the home

So am I allowed to own a handgun and keep it in my home? I'm not sure what I'm allowed to own in my home? I don't know what someone is expected to do when you encounter harmful or deadly situations on the street. It takes a second to get hurt or killed. The police can't do anything to stop that from happening. This sucks. I'm from the east coast and free up inner city Buffalo and Baltimore. Now that I'm a professional I have to worry about protecting my certifications and licenses. Can't handle things on their level because I have to worry about losing my career and future. It's bs that we aren't allowed to walk around and be able to protect ourselves should a dangerous situation arise. I'm not moving. I'm sick of these people. Please let me know what I have to do and what the process is for owning a handgun and/or shotgun in my home. Thanks
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Old 10-05-2017, 9:26 AM
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I suggest you move out of SF, not because of your former roommate but because its a dirty liberal druggie infested bunghole of a city.

You can buy a gun at any gun shop in CA, you'll have to return to it in 10 days to pick it up. At the shop you'll have to pay a $25-35 fee and take a test on basic gun safety, that'll get you a Firearm Safety Card, that's your permit to buy, good for 5 years. They'll have study materials at the shop. If you have half a brain you'll pass, don't worry. Then select your gun, plan on spending $500-700. Thanks to California's roster law you have about 4 guns to choose from. You'll fill out a DROS form and sign it stating among other things that you're not a felon, drug addict, haven't been deemed mentally unfit or otherwise prohibited from owning a gun. Then they'll do an instant background check (another fee $35) to verify what you stated was true. Take your receipt, return in 10 days, give your thumbprint and take your shiny new handgun home, unloaded, in the trunk of your car or in the passenger area inside of a fully enclosed, secure locked container.

For your specific situation you'll want a 9mm handgun. Full size if you just want to defend your home, maybe a lighter weight compact if you are able to get a concealed carry permit.

This always falls on deaf ears but for the love of Christ please budget $200 to take a basic handgun class so you learn the proper way to handle a gun. Its not as easy as just picking up your remote control and pushing a button. In SF I'm going to assume you live in an apartment/condo so you're going to have neighbors. Any round capable of stopping a bad guy is going to be able to penetrate walls. You do NOT want to miss if you have to shoot to defend your life. Just as important, you also do NOT want to make the rest of us gun owners look bad by mishandling or missing. The media will have a field day if you do and we already have enough problems with San Francisco politicians treating us like criminals.

You can have a gun in your home as long as you keep it secured away from any children or prohibited persons. If a child or criminal can get to it you'll be held liable.
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Old 10-05-2017, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob94133 View Post
I'm not sure what I'm allowed to own in my home? I don't know what someone is expected to do when you encounter harmful or deadly situations on the street. It takes a second to get hurt or killed.
For your safety, try to stick to gun-free zones.
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  #11  
Old 10-06-2017, 9:08 PM
rob94133 rob94133 is offline
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Default Thank you

I will go to the gun shop this weekend and get things started. These idiots are always drugged up and thinking they are superman. They are not scared of anything all drugged up. I've called my local police station a couple days in a row now and told them the name and these guys is hanging around here and don't live here and told them someone is going to get robbed or hurt or killed. They can only do so much until one of them commits a crime, then its too late. I'll fell ALOT better having a firearm in my place. Thanks for yor help. I will definetlely take a class and invest in the education
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Old 10-07-2017, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rob94133 View Post
I will go to the gun shop this weekend and get things started. These idiots are always drugged up and thinking they are superman. They are not scared of anything all drugged up. I've called my local police station a couple days in a row now and told them the name and these guys is hanging around here and don't live here and told them someone is going to get robbed or hurt or killed. They can only do so much until one of them commits a crime, then its too late. I'll fell ALOT better having a firearm in my place. Thanks for yor help. I will definetlely take a class and invest in the education
The last gun store in SF closed a while ago. (Driven out of business by a city ordinance.). You will have to leave the city to buy a gun to defend your home in the city.

The city has an ordinance which requires secured storage of the firearm in a residence: http://www.sfbos.org/ftp/uploadedfil...6/o0097-16.pdf

The ordinance indicates that the only exception to keeping the firearm locked up is if you are carrying it on your person. Look into "holsterPJ's".

Appeals courts have upheld this, and SCOTUS has refused to review them. http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/...aw-6313731.php

You need to be careful about ammunition you buy, as some types of hollowpoint ammunition (preferred for self defense) are banned. Here's the ordinance: http://www.sfbos.org/ftp/uploadedfil...3/o0038-13.pdf

And, here's what the SFPD says it means: http://www.calgunlaws.com/wp-content...mmunition1.pdf

I still possess some Black Talons, but other new offerings are better. (Frankly, if I have to shoot someone, I really don't care if the city doesn't like the ammo. ). However, if the ammo is on the prohibited list, the tort attorney in the civil case has been given ammunition. ()

Also remember, although SF is a "sanctuary city", since you're here legally, it's not your sanctuary. Here's the ordinance: http://sfgov.org/oceia/sites/default...%2012H-12I.pdf

And here's the lawsuit settlement for an illegal who was not given proper "sanctuary": http://www.sfexaminer.com/man-receiv...ity-violation/

Before I forget, welcome to CA. And, enjoy "The City".
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:33 AM
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Thank you for all the info. Crazy the hoops you have to jump through just to protect home, family and self and these people don't have to do anything and don't care about ant of this stuff and are on a mission. Never been in a position like this. Growing up I would just kick thier teeth in. Now I have to worry about protecting my carreer and being sued and having someone representing them cone after me for protecting myself. I truly cannot believe this crap right now
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:55 AM
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You will have to have your residence down for somewhere else that are ccw friendly.
I hope you aren't suggesting he lie about his residence to attempt to get a CCW.
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Old 10-10-2017, 6:01 PM
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Thank you, can you recommend a place for the basic handgun safety that you mentioned was about $200. I am coming up with 2 places with varied reviews. Bay Area Firearms and Jackson. Thanks
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Old 10-10-2017, 6:18 PM
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I hope you aren't suggesting he lie about his residence to attempt to get a CCW.
You can have two residences for counties. Looks like it's time to get a place in Napa or Solano. You can probably buy a place for very cheap given that most of the homes there are burned down. Terrible thing to say though. I have a friend who lost everything Napa.

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Old 10-10-2017, 6:19 PM
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Another thing you can do is sue the SF Sheriffs. They do issue CCW, but only if you are a billionaire or a political elite.

You can sue that your constitutional rights are being violated because you are not a billonaire. It will cause quite a stir in the news.
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Old 10-10-2017, 6:37 PM
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Can anyone recommend a good place to take the certificate course, purchase the firearm and receive training? I'm also interested to know your thoughts on a handgun vs shotgun vs something like an AR-15. I typed in best home defense gun and this is the list that came up for top 5 for home protection: The following 5 firearms are the best to keep your family alive in the event of a home invasion.
Mossberg 500/590. ...
Glock 17/19. ...
AR-15. ...
Ruger GP100/Smith & Wesson 686. ...
Taurus Judge/Smith & Wesson Governor.
Heres the link: urbansurvivalsite com/5-best-guns-for-home-defense/
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Old 10-10-2017, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCal P320 View Post
Another thing you can do is sue the SF Sheriffs. They do issue CCW, but only if you are a billionaire or a political elite.

You can sue that your constitutional rights are being violated because you are not a billonaire. It will cause quite a stir in the news.
Don't even bother.

A lawsuit would go no farther than being dismissed on qualified immunity grounds. To defeat qualified immunity, you have to show that right violated by government officials was "clearly established" at the time of the violation.

There is no "clearly established" right to a CCW permit.

All you'll do is throw away a lot of money that you could better spend on other things.
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Old 10-10-2017, 6:44 PM
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Don't even bother.

A lawsuit would go no farther than being dismissed on qualified immunity grounds. To defeat qualified immunity, you have to show that right violated by government officials was "clearly established" at the time of the violation.

There is no "clearly established" right to a CCW permit.

All you'll do is throw away a lot of money that you could better spend on other things.
The negative press would be pretty damaging.

You can say that your right to safety is the equal to an SF Billionaire's who has CCW. You can say that your business has equal status to a Billionaires business (Flickr) , especially since your business performs a social good to the community (as a doctor).

At that point they would have to let the case proceed in order to compare the value of a business like flickr, and saving lives that a doctor does. A judge can't compare the two without depositions.

Last edited by SoCal P320; 10-10-2017 at 6:48 PM..
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Old 10-10-2017, 6:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCal P320 View Post
The negative press would be pretty damaging.

You can say that your right to safety is the equal to an SF Billionaire's who has CCW. You can say that your business has equal status to a Billionaires business (Flickr) , especially since your business performs a social good to the community (as a doctor).

At that point they would have to let the case proceed in order to compare the value of a business like flickr, and saving lives that a doctor does. A judge can't compare the two without depositions.
Not quite.

Given California's political climate, and particularly that of San Francisco, there's not going to be any "negative press" resulting from the lawsuit. I only see positive press for the government folks involved.

The real risk is in losing your lawsuit, appealing the loss, and then creating an adverse published decision.

There is no clearly established "right" to safety either. The same issue as in my previous posting applies. Once the case gets disposed of in the initial pleadings on Qualified Immunity, there's not going to be any depositions considered by the judge.
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Old 10-10-2017, 7:07 PM
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More than that, CA law explicitly immunizes CA officials and agencies from any suits regarding issuing or failing to issue any kind of license or permit.

See the wiki at http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...uing_Authority
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The Legislature is in recess. We're immune from most further mischief until the next session begins, late December 2017.

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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Old 10-10-2017, 7:12 PM
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Not quite.

Given California's political climate, and particularly that of San Francisco, there's not going to be any "negative press" resulting from the lawsuit. I only see positive press for the government folks involved.

The real risk is in losing your lawsuit, appealing the loss, and then creating an adverse published decision.

There is no clearly established "right" to safety either. The same issue as in my previous posting applies. Once the case gets disposed of in the initial pleadings on Qualified Immunity, there's not going to be any depositions considered by the judge.
Whatever those Billionaires wrote for their CCW in SF County, duplicate that reason and argue that your value to society is greater than that billionaires.

A doctor service is more valuable than a Flickr.
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Old 10-10-2017, 7:12 PM
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More than that, CA law explicitly immunizes CA officials and agencies from any suits regarding issuing or failing to issue any kind of license or permit.

See the wiki at http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...uing_Authority
Librarian,

Thanks so much for adding the point.

I had been thinking entirely in terms of an 42 USC 1983 Civil Rights lawsuit from the context of P320's posting, but as you point out, the door to a lawsuit in state court is also pretty well slammed shut.
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Old 10-10-2017, 7:13 PM
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More than that, CA law explicitly immunizes CA officials and agencies from any suits regarding issuing or failing to issue any kind of license or permit.

See the wiki at http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...uing_Authority
Not if there is bias involved.
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Old 10-10-2017, 7:19 PM
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Not if there is bias involved.
What makes you think that there is an exception for bias?

Can you please cite to a statute, or published case decision so holding?

Or is this something that you're just making up?
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Old 10-10-2017, 7:22 PM
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What makes you think that there is an exception for bias?

Can you please cite to a statute, or published case decision so holding?

Or is this something that you're just making up?
If a county issues permits and licenses with bias, then that is grounds for a lawsuit. That would be pretty huge.

Imagine what would happen if business licenses were issued to whites, but not blacks in Bayview Hunter's Point. That would break the news.
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Old 10-10-2017, 7:26 PM
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If a county issues permits and licenses with bias, then that is grounds for a lawsuit. That would be pretty huge.

Imagine what would happen if business licenses were issued to whites, but not blacks in Bayview Hunter's Point. That would break the news.
Sounds like you're talking off the top of your head here (e.g. "making stuff up").

What is the statute or case decision that makes it so?

If county officials acted with specific forms of bias, where equal treatment rights have been "Clearly Established", then you would be able to defeat Qualified Immunity, but I haven't seen you cite any yet.
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Old 10-10-2017, 7:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCal P320 View Post
You can have two residences for counties. Looks like it's time to get a place in Napa or Solano.
You have to have a primary residence that you live at.
Car registration, voter registration, address on your income taxes, CDL would determine your actual place of residence.
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Old 10-10-2017, 7:28 PM
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Sounds like you're talking off the top of your head here (e.g. "making stuff up").

What is the statute or case decision that makes it so?

It seems hard to believe that nothing can be done if SF County issued business licenses to Whites, but not Blacks.

Whatever avenue or statute that is, seems like fair game to me. If a doctor needs to conduct business with safety just like a billionaire, why is there bias in who gets a CCW?
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Old 10-10-2017, 7:30 PM
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You have to have a primary residence that you live at.
Car registration, voter registration, address on your income taxes, CDL would determine your actual place of residence.
Utility bills would work just fine.
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Old 10-10-2017, 7:56 PM
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Utility bills would work just fine.
Most IA'S require that your DMV info matches your 'residence'.
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Old 10-10-2017, 8:06 PM
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Gray Ops (gofast1.com), LMS Defense, and Mobile Marksman all have classes that would be appropriate. Gun Craft Solutions has a two-day course on Dec 2-3 that should be very good, although it's $400. I've taken courses with all four organizations.

I have taken classes with Bay Area Firearms. The owner is friendly, but it can be a bit disorganized.
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Old 10-10-2017, 8:17 PM
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Hi, I just joined this site. I have been trying to learn how to have self protection for my home and possibly myself while out in public. I've read that getting a carry permit is almost impossible. But I've also read that SF will honor carry permits if from another county in California. I am a resident in San Francisco and would like to get protection for my home, handgun, shotgun etc. Not sure whats allowed. I would like to also carry for protection also. I am a law abiding citizen.
The permit is valid in any county. The problem is that you must apply within the county of residence, and the permit becomes invalid (if not outright revoked) 90 days from the date of moving from the county.

You may own firearms for protection within your home, but you have no options to carry outside of your home without moving to a different county.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 10-10-2017, 8:33 PM
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It seems hard to believe that nothing can be done if SF County issued business licenses to Whites, but not Blacks.

Whatever avenue or statute that is, seems like fair game to me. If a doctor needs to conduct business with safety just like a billionaire, why is there bias in who gets a CCW?
If the Sheriff did issue to whites, and not to blacks, then there would be a possible 42USC1983 lawsuit. The right to equal treatment under the law on the basis of race is clearly established and that would defeat Qualified Immunity.

Your problem is that there is no corresponding clear establishment of right based on occupation or economic class.
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Old 10-12-2017, 7:19 PM
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Anyone have any opinions on the above post with the top 5 guns they recommend for home protection? Also, anyone recommend any gun store close to San Francisco they recommend purchasing?Thx
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Old 10-12-2017, 7:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
If the Sheriff did issue to whites, and not to blacks, then there would be a possible 42USC1983 lawsuit. The right to equal treatment under the law on the basis of race is clearly established and that would defeat Qualified Immunity.

Your problem is that there is no corresponding clear establishment of right based on occupation or economic class.
I can't imagine this going over well with the Bernie bros in the Left wing camp. Only the 1% get 2A rights! None for the middle class!

The opportunity is ripe for a political coup.
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Old 10-12-2017, 8:01 PM
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Anyone have any opinions on the above post with the top 5 guns they recommend for home protection?
Home protection?
Glock 21SF (10 rounds 45acp)
Springfield XD-45 Tactical (10 rounds 45acp)
Ruger GP100 4" 38/357 (you DON'T want to fire a magnum round indoors)
Ruger GP100 44spl (rostered version is only 3" barrel, which knocks it below the .38/357 version)
Mossberg 500 18" barrel (gonna hurt the ears, but if you need more than the pistols....)

Of the 5, the 4" GP is going to be the most tame on recoil, but with only 6 rounds and difficulty in reloading, the double stack tupperware guns edge out the revolvers, and recoil is still QUITE manageable, even in the smaller frame G30SF.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 10-12-2017, 8:20 PM
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Anyone have any opinions on the above post with the top 5 guns they recommend for home protection? Also, anyone recommend any gun store close to San Francisco they recommend purchasing?Thx
Jackson Arms is close (SSF - north of the airport), and their pricing is not felonious. Bonus that they rent a decent selection of firearms for use on their range so you can try before you buy (note that you'll need to be with a friend / co-worker / other to rent if you don't already have a firearm with you, which sounds like you don't). They also offer some basic training which would be worthwhile for someone new to firearms. (never taken a course there so can't speak to quality).
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Old 10-12-2017, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Oderus Urungus View Post
For your safety, try to stick to gun-free zones.


He safe for sure then. If you have a overlay map of SF gun free zones, virtually all the city is a gun free zone. We all know how effective gun free zones are.




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