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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 66 7.78%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 570 67.22%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 19 2.24%
I paid too much for my Membership! 39 4.60%
They will go out of business this year! 21 2.48%
Don't want anything to do with them! 133 15.68%
Voters: 848. You may not vote on this poll

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  #9121  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassCase View Post
I took my 92FS to the 4 day class and the first 2 day skill builder running Rem UMC 115 gr through it. The gun clearing drills are hard for the 92FS and they were designed for a Glock. I've put well over 7K rounds through it and another 3K through my 92G-SD and neither has ever jammed. The 92 doesn't like to drop it's magazine when jammed for a FS drill. For the next 2 day skill builder I took my XD tactical which works a little better in the clearing drills but still not as easy as the Glock. The Glocks have a lot of clearance in the magazine well that most others don't have.

To use the Beretta again I'd have to do something to the magazines to make them easier/faster to remove if I want to DG the class. I've had two range masters look it over and try the drill with it, they had no better luck than I did and told me that I'm screwed on these drills.
For the day 1 morning intro range lecture, they usually ask a show of hands who is running a 92FS...then they refer to the First Aid box. Lol

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  #9122  
Old 02-14-2018, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassCase View Post
I took my 92FS to the 4 day class and the first 2 day skill builder running Rem UMC 115 gr through it. The gun clearing drills are hard for the 92FS and they were designed for a Glock. I've put well over 7K rounds through it and another 3K through my 92G-SD and neither has ever jammed. The 92 doesn't like to drop it's magazine when jammed for a FS drill. For the next 2 day skill builder I took my XD tactical which works a little better in the clearing drills but still not as easy as the Glock. The Glocks have a lot of clearance in the magazine well that most others don't have.

To use the Beretta again I'd have to do something to the magazines to make them easier/faster to remove if I want to DG the class. I've had two range masters look it over and try the drill with it, they had no better luck than I did and told me that I'm screwed on these drills.
I took a 4DHG class with a 92FS many, many years ago...It wasn't fun. I have since switched to all Glocks.

I disagree with your statement that "the gun clearing drills were designed for a Glock".

Type I, II, III and Emergency Reloads are "naturally" occurring malfunctions that can occur with any semi-auto pistol in the middle of a gun fight, temporarily rendering your gun inoperable. You need to be able to fix ("clear" ) these malfunctions, get your gun back up and running, and get back into the gunfight ASAP.

You now get to choose if you want to go into a (potential) gunfight with a Beretta 92FS or a Glock. It's your choice.

The malfunction "drills" at Frontsight are made to give you practice clearing these malfunctions. The malfunction "clearing procedures" taught at Frontsight are designed to work with "any gun". In fact, if you were teaching Type III clearances for just the Glock, you would skip locking the slide back. You can easily strip out the magazine from a Glock in a type III without locking the slide back, saving time. (try it!)
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  #9123  
Old 02-14-2018, 12:15 PM
nszzya nszzya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LV_G22 View Post
I took a 4DHG class with a 92FS many, many years ago...It wasn't fun. I have since switched to all Glocks.

I disagree with your statement that "the gun clearing drills were designed for a Glock".

Type I, II, III and Emergency Reloads are "naturally" occurring malfunctions that can occur with any semi-auto pistol in the middle of a gun fight, temporarily rendering your gun inoperable. You need to be able to fix ("clear" ) these malfunctions, get your gun back up and running, and get back into the gunfight ASAP.

You now get to choose if you want to go into a (potential) gunfight with a Beretta 92FS or a Glock. It's your choice.

The malfunction "drills" at Frontsight are made to give you practice clearing these malfunctions. The malfunction "clearing procedures" taught at Frontsight are designed to work with "any gun". In fact, if you were teaching Type III clearances for just the Glock, you would skip locking the slide back. You can easily strip out the magazine from a Glock in a type III without locking the slide back, saving time. (try it!)
Agreed!

Apparently, stripping the magazine isn't always required. I came across this technique yesterday. It occurs at about the 2:00 mark.

https://youtu.be/d6sVPHo2K8Y

My question is: Will the magazine reliably drop when racking the slide?

Thoughts?
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  #9124  
Old 02-14-2018, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by nszzya View Post
Agreed!

Apparently, stripping the magazine isn't always required. I came across this technique yesterday. It occurs at about the 2:00 mark.

https://youtu.be/d6sVPHo2K8Y

My question is: Will the magazine reliably drop when racking the slide?

Thoughts?
I didn't turn the sound on as I am at the office, but does it seem he's got his finger on the mag release button as he is racking the slide, but the mag failed to drop due to the stovepiping?
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  #9125  
Old 02-14-2018, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
I didn't turn the sound on as I am at the office, but does it seem he's got his finger on the mag release button as he is racking the slide, but the mag failed to drop due to the stovepiping?
He's clearing a type 3. He presses the mag release while racking the slide and the magazine drops. The malfunction is cleared and he inserts a fresh magazine.
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  #9126  
Old 02-14-2018, 2:06 PM
LV_G22 LV_G22 is offline
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You need to strip the mag on a type III to reliably make certain to get the mag out.

It is a failure to extract, with a casing in the chamber, and another round being fed by the magazine UNDER TENSION.

There are alternative techniques (for example, if clearing one-handed) where you hold the mag release button and strike your forearm firmly against your thigh to get the mag out. This uses inertia to break free of the tension, but it is NOT full-proof. Sometime you need to bang your arm a few times....
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  #9127  
Old 02-14-2018, 2:20 PM
nszzya nszzya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LV_G22 View Post
You need to strip the mag on a type III to reliably make certain to get the mag out.

It is a failure to extract, with a casing in the chamber, and another round being fed by the magazine UNDER TENSION.

There are alternative techniques (for example, if clearing one-handed) where you hold the mag release button and strike your forearm firmly against your thigh to get the mag out. This uses inertia to break free of the tension, but it is NOT full-proof. Sometime you need to bang your arm a few times....
I think this technique is interesting as racking the slide should release the tension on the double feed and allow the mag to drop. That said, I don't think it saves much time versus stripping the mag.
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  #9128  
Old 02-14-2018, 2:26 PM
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The mag well on an SD is slimmer than a Glock. Easier to remove and load a mag into a Glock. Although I had not issues using my cod in these drills.
They do pound the drills into your head so when you have a real live malfunction it is just second natural to address.
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  #9129  
Old 02-14-2018, 4:05 PM
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Does anyone happen to have the current Practical Rifle time/distance/malfunction standards or link to same? Just came back from the four day class, learned lots but would like to practice the standards for a DG next time down.
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  #9130  
Old 02-14-2018, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Manager View Post
Does anyone happen to have the current Practical Rifle time/distance/malfunction standards or link to same? Just came back from the four day class, learned lots but would like to practice the standards for a DG next time down.
Believe This is current
Attached Files
File Type: pdf FS Practicle Rifle Evaluation.pdf (215.7 KB, 13 views)
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  #9131  
Old 02-14-2018, 4:51 PM
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Does anyone know the distance of shooters to the steel targets on the Man-On-Man competition? It looks like 10 or 15 yards to the hostage taker. The distance to the red and blue guys? I want to practice...




Quote:
Originally Posted by LV_G22 View Post

There are alternative techniques (for example, if clearing one-handed) where you hold the mag release button and strike your forearm firmly against your thigh to get the mag out. This uses inertia to break free of the tension, but it is NOT full-proof. Sometime you need to bang your arm a few times....
That is exactly what was taught in Advanced Tactical HG course a couple years ago.
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  #9132  
Old 02-14-2018, 5:17 PM
mej16489 mej16489 is offline
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The Type III malfunction clearance outlined above works very reliably for Glocks (Tactical, Full-Size and Compacts), your mileage may vary on other size and manufacturers. You may not use that method on a Front Sight skills test (its a procedural error)

1) dead or funny trigger
2) Look and move; seeing brass low
3) Check for a spare magazine. If no spare DO NOT continue
4) Depress the magazine release
5) with the magazine release depressed, rack - rack - rack
6) Insert spare magazine
7) Rack to chamber a round
8) Point in and assess

With practice, its an easy 2.5 second Type III malfunction clearance.
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  #9133  
Old 02-14-2018, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Does anyone know the distance of shooters to the steel targets on the Man-On-Man competition? It looks like 10 or 15 yards to the hostage taker. The distance to the red and blue guys? I want to practice...
Presuming you are asking about handgun...

You shoot from the 17. The Red/Blue are at 'toes to the ties' and the Hostage is on the 7.

So extrapolating that out, its a 10 yard hostage taker shot with 2 roughly 16 yard followup targets.

I shall reveal the secrets to winning the challenge coin:
1) Do NOT shoot to miss the hostage...shoot to HIT the hostage taker. This is a mindset issue.
2) Do NOT evaluate your first shot until after you engage the next two targets.
3) Shoot controlled pairs on the far targets in the designated order by color
4) Do NOT evaluate your controlled pairs
5) Evaluate your Hostage Taker shot, make up if needed
6) Evaluate your far shots, make up if needed.

In other words, do what precisely what you've been taught and practiced for 4 days. I have quite a collection of these coins.

Last edited by mej16489; 02-15-2018 at 10:58 AM.. Reason: Clarification on #3
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  #9134  
Old 02-14-2018, 5:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
Presuming you are asking about handgun...

You shoot from the 17. The Red/Blue are at 'toes to the ties' and the Hostage is on the 7.

So extrapolating that out, its a 10 yard hostage taker shot with 2 roughly 16 yard followup targets.

I shall reveal the secrets to winning the challenge coin:
1) Do NOT shoot to miss the hostage...shoot to HIT the hostage taker. This is a mindset issue.
2) Do NOT evaluate your first shot until after you engage the next two targets.
3) Shoot controlled pairs on the far targets.
4) Do NOT evaluate your controlled pairs
5) Evaluate your Hostage Taker shot, make up if needed
6) Evaluate your far shots, make up if needed.

In other words, do what precisely what you've been taught and practiced for 4 days. I have quite a collection of these coins.
Yes, handgun Man-On-Man. Thanks for the tips!

So, it's OK to shoot the far targets first then get back to the hostage taker if you missed him the first time?
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  #9135  
Old 02-14-2018, 6:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Icm2014 View Post
Believe This is current
Thank you kind sir.

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  #9136  
Old 02-14-2018, 6:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
Presuming you are asking about handgun...

You shoot from the 17. The Red/Blue are at 'toes to the ties' and the Hostage is on the 7.

So extrapolating that out, its a 10 yard hostage taker shot with 2 roughly 16 yard followup targets.

I shall reveal the secrets to winning the challenge coin:
1) Do NOT shoot to miss the hostage...shoot to HIT the hostage taker. This is a mindset issue.
2) Do NOT evaluate your first shot until after you engage the next two targets.
3) Shoot controlled pairs on the far targets.
4) Do NOT evaluate your controlled pairs
5) Evaluate your Hostage Taker shot, make up if needed
6) Evaluate your far shots, make up if needed.

In other words, do what precisely what you've been taught and practiced for 4 days. I have quite a collection of these coins.
Aren't the red/blue targets supposed to be shot in an order? I was disqualified because I shot red/blue in the wrong/flipped order.
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  #9137  
Old 02-15-2018, 7:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Citizen_B View Post
Aren't the red/blue targets supposed to be shot in an order? I was disqualified because I shot red/blue in the wrong/flipped order.
Yes it has to be in order, they tell you the order several times before the contest.
I believe it is white Then red then blue
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  #9138  
Old 02-15-2018, 9:11 AM
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Hi everyone,
It's been about four years since I went to front sight or checked in on this thread. How's the hotel coming along? Still the same as four years ago?


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  #9139  
Old 02-15-2018, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Yes, handgun Man-On-Man. Thanks for the tips!

So, it's OK to shoot the far targets first then get back to the hostage taker if you missed him the first time?
Right, as DSMyer also pointed out, you must ATTEMPT to shoot them in the order that they tell you.

I would not recommend practicing the order based on particular colors as sometimes the far targets get setup reversed. However I've always seen the order be HT, outside, inside.
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  #9140  
Old 02-15-2018, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen_B View Post
Aren't the red/blue targets supposed to be shot in an order? I was disqualified because I shot red/blue in the wrong/flipped order.
Yes, I updated my post to clarify.
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  #9141  
Old 02-15-2018, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawk556 View Post
Hi everyone,
It's been about four years since I went to front sight or checked in on this thread. How's the hotel coming along? Still the same as four years ago?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Was there 2/9-2/12/18. A bunch of new ranges on the south end since I was there two years ago. Between those and just south of the ropes course they are moving A LOT of dirt! I didn't pay enough attention during the spiel to notice what goes there in the big plan but no hotel yet.
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  #9142  
Old 02-15-2018, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Manager View Post
Was there 2/9-2/12/18. A bunch of new ranges on the south end since I was there two years ago. Between those and just south of the ropes course they are moving A LOT of dirt! I didn't pay enough attention during the spiel to notice what goes there in the big plan but no hotel yet.


Wow all this time and still no hotel. Good thing I didn't upgrade three years ago. My $99 diamond membership is more than enough.


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  #9143  
Old 02-16-2018, 6:56 AM
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Man theres a lot of camper in the lot this weekend!
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  #9144  
Old 02-16-2018, 3:42 PM
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What’s up with upcoming constitutional course is it worth the free dinner or is it a marketing ploy and my time will be wasted?
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  #9145  
Old 02-16-2018, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by cxr View Post
What’s up with upcoming constitutional course is it worth the free dinner or is it a marketing ploy and my time will be wasted?
Marketing ploy...

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
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  #9146  
Old 02-16-2018, 6:43 PM
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Only 16 guys in precision rifle. Beautiful day today. But Sunday’s going to be hell! 25-30mph wind with 40 mph gusts.
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  #9147  
Old 02-16-2018, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DSMeyer View Post
Only 16 guys in precision rifle. Beautiful day today. But Sunday’s going to be hell! 25-30mph wind with 40 mph gusts.
Just time the wind right. Either shoot at its full gusts or wait for a lull

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
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  #9148  
Old 02-16-2018, 7:00 PM
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Only 16 guys in precision rifle. Beautiful day today. But Sunday’s going to be hell! 25-30mph wind with 40 mph gusts.
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  #9149  
Old 02-16-2018, 7:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMeyer View Post
Only 16 guys in precision rifle. Beautiful day today. But Sunday’s going to be hell! 25-30mph wind with 40 mph gusts.
Yeah I was surprised to see there were 480 people on property and yet only 16 in precision rifle.
You're right though, the day was amazing. A bit cold in the morning but once the sun came out, couldn't really ask for better weather.
Yikes, hadn't noticed it was going to be that windy Sunday. That'll be "fun"
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  #9150  
Old 02-16-2018, 10:23 PM
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Looking at the weather for Monday/Tuesday. Going to be freakin cold in the AM.
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  #9151  
Old 02-18-2018, 6:27 PM
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Greetings,

New to the Forum. I am a Front Sight member and have just returned from the Basic and Advanced Tactical courses a few weeks ago. I will be attending the HCMP on April 2-5. I am wondering who will be joining me!

I will be DQ'd right off the bat because I will be shooting with a Red dot for the test cause basically I can't see the sights. I'm also right handed and left eye dominant which adds to the confusion! But, that being said, if I do well this time out, and I think that there is even a chance I could pull it off, I will switch pistols and get some decent glasses.

Could anyone explain the off angles portion of the test?

And any and all tips would certainly be appreciated.

Thanks!
Michael
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  #9152  
Old 02-18-2018, 6:37 PM
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Wind was tough today anywhere from 8-20 mph gusting. Made the 700/750 yard lines interesting. Pulled off a 1.5” group at the 600 which was cool.
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  #9153  
Old 02-18-2018, 6:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainDidactic View Post
Greetings,



New to the Forum. I am a Front Sight member and have just returned from the Basic and Advanced Tactical courses a few weeks ago. I will be attending the HCMP on April 2-5. I am wondering who will be joining me!



I will be DQ'd right off the bat because I will be shooting with a Red dot for the test cause basically I can't see the sights. I'm also right handed and left eye dominant which adds to the confusion! But, that being said, if I do well this time out, and I think that there is even a chance I could pull it off, I will switch pistols and get some decent glasses.



Could anyone explain the off angles portion of the test?



And any and all tips would certainly be appreciated.



Thanks!

Michael


Congrats- you’ll love combat master. The odd angles are similar to hostage, where only a portion of the target is visible. You can either shoot head or body, like they’re peeking out from a wall.
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