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Gunsmithing & How To Pro, Amateur & WECSOG and Tutorials, Guides & OLL Build Instructions |
View Poll Results: Would you prefer the KTo frames in steel, aluminum, or either one | |||
Steel | 86 | 45.99% | |
Aluminum | 59 | 31.55% | |
Either one is fine | 42 | 22.46% | |
Voters: 187. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1
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KTO 80% SIG P228 frames group buy is a go, if we get 100 frames commitment
I'm trying to gauge the interest in 80% SIG P228 frames. KTO used to make them up until 2004, I believe, and if enough interest is expressed, I'll contact him to see, if he'll be willing to make another run of them, and what the price would be. The parts are still out there (although I scooped up as much as I found ).
I'm going to try and make one in .40, as well, if I get another frame (I have one of the old ones). Here's what the old ones look like (these aren't mine, just the images off the Internet): I've no idea what the price might be, but we'll see what the interest is like first. I paid $270 for mine, but this was a rare 80% frame long since out-of-production. I would imagine, we might get the price down to around $250. So, if you're interested, post the number of frames you would like, if this works out. Updated to reflect that: 1. This is a go - the KTO guy will do a run of these frames, if there's a commitment of at least 100 frames. The price will be $250 per ALUMINUM frame. The info on steel frames will be added, as it's received. See post #22 for more details. 2. Per KTO, you can build SIG P228, P229, or P226 on his frames. P228s are obvious, I've read about people building P229s on these (and am planning to do it myself, too). I've never heard of anyone building a P226 on these frames. Hopefully, people more familiar with SIGs will chime in on the differences between these. 3. The lead time will be in months, as KTO needs to get ATF's approval for the design. He already has a frame to submit to them though. 4. Feel free to cross-post this on other forums. 5. I will ask MadRiverArms, if he wants to run this group by, if we get enough commitments. He ran the KTO 1911 frames group buy very well.
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DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated. DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292 Last edited by nick; 04-06-2012 at 12:30 AM.. |
#3
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That would depend on how finished the new frames would be. In the old ones, one needed to cut the rails, drill and ream 2 holes, and do the general fitting/finishing. The fitting is easier than with a 1911, since SIG parts are supposed to be drop-in (and they mostly are). I don't know what the new frames (provided there's enough interest) might entail.
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DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated. DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292 |
#4
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The old ones are steel (as are the original P228 frames). The CNCGuns guy made an aluminum one, and it worked fine. We'll see what the KTO guy has to say, and how much interest this will generate.
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DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated. DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292 |
#6
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Is that the one from the guy on FALfiles?
__________________
NRA lifetime member 2AF Defender member When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"? Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’ Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth |
#13
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If you're talking about the pictures, possibly. I got them off Google images
And yeah, I saw a guy selling the frame and a Dlask kit on FALfiles for $350 last November... Quite a shame I didn't see it, he had it for sale for a while.
__________________
DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated. DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292 |
#14
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The ballpark would depend on your luck. For example, I bought one bag of small parts on Gunbroker for $200, and another bag with the same parts for $31. Unlike 1911s, you'll have to look for the parts. So take whatever numbers I give with a grain of salt. My estimate would be like this:
Frame - $250 Slide assembly - $250 Frame small parts - $70-100-150 You can get a used P228 for about the same price.
__________________
DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated. DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292 |
#15
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Quote:
Personally, I'm planning to make one in .40 (if the frame holds that recoil), which involves P229 slide assembly, at the very least. From what I've read, the main difference between P228 and P229 is in the slide assembly. P228 has a stamped slide, and while early P229s had a stamped slide, they moved to milled slides (to make way for higher pressure/recoil of .40). I haven't received my P229 slide, so I can't compare them side-by-side yet. I'll post the comparison when I do receive it. The magwell is another thing. P229 mags are a bit wider, so while P228 mags would work in P229 (they'll just rattle a bit), P229 mags will not work in P228, unless you open up the magwell a bit. I've confirmed it with my KTO frame - P228 mags would fit too tight (had to file it a bit), and P229 9mm mags wouldn't fit at all. I'm planning to file some more to make them fit. The frame parts should be the same. As for the availability of parts, they're out there, from the likes of NUmrich and Top Gun Supply, and there's, of course, Gunbroker and Ebay (yep, people can sell most gun parts on Ebay now. I got both of my slides and barrels off Ebay). You'll have to be patient though, this isn't a project where you can get the frame from one established source, parts kit from another established source, and put it all together.
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DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated. DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292 Last edited by nick; 04-04-2012 at 8:43 AM.. |
#16
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If the price is reasonable, and it will fit the Sig factory 22 conversion kit, I'd be in for one.
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WTB: SWISS & German police trade in pistols WTB: German made & proofed SIG P226R & P228R WTB: Factory cutaway pistols & rifles WTB: LAPD Ithaca M37 / CHP S&W / Other PD trade ins.... |
#17
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nick, as per our PMs i would be in on this for one or two and will pursue the idea w/ KTO if you haven't already.
__________________
Live between Santa Cruz and SLO? Want to get involved? Check out the Central Coast Calguns Community Chapter And join the Central Coast Region Social Group! NRA Life Member - CRPA Life
Statements posted here are the sole opinions of the author and not those of CGN, CGF, CRPA, or any other institution or agency unless otherwise noted. |
#20
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Emailed KTO to ask about the possibility of P228 and/or P229 80% frames. I'll let you all know when I hear back.
ETA: Here's the word from Rick at KTO: The good news: He says he's up for doing a run of 80% Sig frames He says the frames he makes can be used to make a P226, 228, or 229 (we'll see how nick does with his I guess, assuming it is the same kind of KTO 80%) He would have to submit a frame for BATFE for approval before entering production, but he has one on hand that he could use for this (interestingly, it is one of two frames that THEY returned to HIM already, after his last court case, so they presumably would have no problem getting approval) The not-so-good news: He does not have any of the fixtures or programs to make them any more, so he would have to build/code from scratch Because of this, he would need a minimum order of 100 parts @ $250/ea in order to make it worth doing, This would be the cost for aluminum 80% frames. Steel would cost more, although I don't know how much. So the ball is in our court. If there is enough interest at that price point, we can make it happen. If we want to go down that road, the sooner we can let him know, so that he can submit the sample to BATF, the better.
__________________
Live between Santa Cruz and SLO? Want to get involved? Check out the Central Coast Calguns Community Chapter And join the Central Coast Region Social Group! NRA Life Member - CRPA Life
Statements posted here are the sole opinions of the author and not those of CGN, CGF, CRPA, or any other institution or agency unless otherwise noted. Last edited by goober; 04-05-2012 at 4:57 PM.. |
#21
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Do they only work the 229?
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#23
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Quote:
i've been a customer from way back when you used to pay by putting $$ on his WalMart card
__________________
Live between Santa Cruz and SLO? Want to get involved? Check out the Central Coast Calguns Community Chapter And join the Central Coast Region Social Group! NRA Life Member - CRPA Life
Statements posted here are the sole opinions of the author and not those of CGN, CGF, CRPA, or any other institution or agency unless otherwise noted. |
#24
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Quote:
How much easier would these be to complete vs. the 1911 frames? |
#25
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2 more here.
__________________
NRA lifetime member 2AF Defender member When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"? Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’ Peace, love, and heavy weapons. Sometimes you have to be insistent." - David Lee Roth |
#26
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Quote:
I bought my parts off Ebay and Gunbroker, with the few leftover parts - from Numrich and Topgunsupply.
__________________
DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated. DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292 |
#27
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Quote:
I'm making a P228 out of the current frame, but I lined up another frame. We'll see, if I can make a P229 out of that one. I have the slide, a .40 barrel, and most of the small parts. I'll let you guys know how that works out, but that'll be in a couple of months or so.
__________________
DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated. DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292 |
#29
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I'm very interested. Can we also use this thread the to discuss possible resources to complete the frame?
Its hard enough to find a source to complete an ar 80% in NorCal. Any calgunner offering their expertise? |
#30
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Rick will be sending a sample to ATF on Monday for approval as a non-firearm. He says he expects anywhere from 30-90 days to get approval, but is optimistic that it will be on the low end, based on his recent experience.
Steel would be $300/each and he's not really open to mix/match for this first run. So we need to go either all aluminum or steel. He estimates about 2 months from the time he is paid, and does not want payment until after ATF approval is received. He said he's looking forward to this project!
__________________
Live between Santa Cruz and SLO? Want to get involved? Check out the Central Coast Calguns Community Chapter And join the Central Coast Region Social Group! NRA Life Member - CRPA Life
Statements posted here are the sole opinions of the author and not those of CGN, CGF, CRPA, or any other institution or agency unless otherwise noted. |
#32
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By all means. And I'll start tallying the total number of commitments this weekend.
__________________
DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated. DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292 |
#33
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According to Rick at KTO, his frames should work for building a P226 (or P228, or P229). However, I've never heard of anyone building a P226 on it. Doesn't mean it didn't or can't happen, just that I couldn't find any info on it.
__________________
DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated. DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292 |
#37
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Added a poll on whether you prefer a steel or aluminum frame. Personally, I want both, and I already have the steel ones.
__________________
DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated. DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292 |
#39
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Very tempted, but all these gun projects are giving my accountant a heart attack. Not to mention I'm running out of room to store up "kit's in progress". I'll have to pass on this one, but look forward to seeing people build them!
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#40
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It's easy, really. A metal shelf for the kits (and look on the bright side - handgun parts don't take as much space as the rifle ones, or the likes of M1919), and as for the accountant, he's supposed to count what's left of your money, not tell you how to spend it. Unless it's a she... then enjoy it while you can
__________________
DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated. DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292 |
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