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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here. |
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Training Class or Competition
To all seasoned been there done that guys, what is your progression do you just keep taking classes in multi level e.g.. novice to advance or do you start competing in IDPA/USPSA, Glock Sport etc.
I read somewhere that cost associated with competing is quite high. It dwarfs your handgun cost considering ammo,fees,time & travel and misc. expense. On other note just take classes/courses to get better. What your take? |
#2
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Classes will not put the stress on you that exists in competition. Running in competition under a timer with the focus on performing as well as possible will introduce stress, tunnel vision, and reduction of fine motor skills in a consistent and regular manner. These are common responses to high-stress situations, and responses to which you should have exposure.
On the other hand, competition does NOT teach or reinforce proper defensive and tactical skills. Quite the contrary...competition rewards actions that would be exceptionally detrimental in a real fight. The single biggest benefit from competition is that it hones your weapon-handling mechanics. Drawing, sight acquisition, trigger press under stress, target transitions, reloads, malfunction recovery...all vital skills that become second nature when you compete regularly. Being able to do these without conscious thought is an invaluable skill. But it is just important that if you carry a weapon for defense or part of your job, you need to balance competition with proper tactical training.
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My friends and family disavow all knowledge of my existence, let alone my opinions. |
#4
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They each have their place. Think of classes as learning technique and competition as testing your ability to apply the techniques you've learned.
Classes are like trying to learn to drive a race car by just reading a book...it only takes you so far. Racing without learning technique is like thrashing around making crashing until you learn enough to get out of the way of other drivers. My experience has taught me that a good foundation in skills/technique is needed before starting competition, but once you've started competiting, you'll exposed weaknesses which can only be addressed with more instruction
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...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale |
#5
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a good tactical class will teach you the basic HG skills including shoot an scoot very important in match PLAY, just keep in mind competition is a game |
#6
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prepare to get spanked agian this coming Sunday!
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#8
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HighLander51
Excellent Post! 'Ex-sell-lant-tay'.
I better eat all my Wheaties before shooting that match. I do enjoy watching and shooting matches like those. Fun, fun, fun. I noticed the shooters had a lot of confidence, good foot work, and recovered nicely from pistol malfuctions. Looks like a real good shooting club too. Clean, well organized, where is this place? How do I sign-up? Thanks for the Post, HL51. Some people like to fall asleep to music. Tonight I'll set this video clip up for my bedtime. I enjoy listening to the sounds of shooting and bullets hitting steal. |
#9
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HighLander51
Excellent Post! 'Ex-sell-lant-tay'.
I better eat all my Wheaties before shooting that match. I do enjoy watching and shooting matches like those. Fun, fun, fun. I noticed the shooters had a lot of confidence, good foot work, and recovered nicely from pistol malfuctions. Looks like a real good shooting club too. Clean, well organized, where is this place? How do I sign-up? Thanks for the Post, HL51. Some people like to fall asleep to music. Tonight I'll set this video clip up for my bedtime. I enjoy listening to the sounds of shooting and bullets hitting steal. |
#10
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shoot USPSA: gun handling and marksmanship under stress
play paintball: use of cover, cutting off angles, snap shooting watch Magpul videos: whatever they teach you in a class |
#11
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It's still far cheaper than golf, and a damn sight better use of the land. |
#12
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I have slowly educating myself about reloading and getting supply one at a time. After some classes in July I should at least be ready to take my first orientation of my chapter Action Pistol then I can shoot a match, that is how they required us, at least I wont be unsafe and embarrass myself. I know when I took on this sport that I would at least go beyond static shooting. I got some stock pistol and plan on using this not interested in Race gun at all my goal is to at least be good/ very good with what I have. You all have provided insight into this sport that will be safe and enjoyable for years to come. The stress of competition will expose and sharpen any skills I have learn and will continue to fine tune as I get better, that is why I'm not rushing to join any action pistol until I think my FUNDAMENTALS are solid, have been working diligently on my fundamentals and shot process and I have gotten a FEW aha! moment. Any advice please keep it coming. |
#13
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If you are new to shooting or haven't worked on anything but an indoor/static square range, take a class. In a basic/level 1, you'll learn/practice how to shoot faster than 1round/second accurately, work from a holster, reload, maybe move and shoot. You'll need to do those things safely in competition. Once you have an intro to that, USPSA/IDPA is a nice way to regularly practice running your gun.
Then depending on your goals, maybe another class when you hit a plateau or want to pick up a new skill/tactic. That direction will dictate what kind of class you should be looking at i.e. competition or 'tactical'. As for cost, a Satruday USPSA match will take about 1/2 day and run me about $30 match fees, $8 in gas, $5 for a few tacos after and 150-200 rounds of ammo. In my area, I can do that just about every weekend if my scheduled allowed. The costs vary a bit for a training class, on average...$200/day and 400-600 rounds. Gas and food depend on where the class is but I stick to commute distance classes. |
#14
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Part of it also comes to what you want to get out of the competition. Up to this point, I am resisting the option of building or buying competition specific equipment. I am never going to have the time to dedicate to be a top tier competitor. I use competition as a fun way to get more trigger time other than shooting at a static target. It also gives me a chance to make good friends, etc.
There's nothing wrong with going full tilt into competition and buying competition specific gear. My goal is to get better using the firearms I own and would most likely use in any scenario. |
#16
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OP:
It depends on your level of training/experience. My personal observation is this: I see newbie competitors grossly under skilled in basic gun handling, safety and overall awareness of the fact they are running around with REAL guns and bullets. Taking more than a few classes from a an outfit that has experience in both realms will help burn the concepts of safety and gun handling into you brain. Those two things are a must, the rest can be worked on and improved along the way.
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Sofa King Tactical! |
#17
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Yea, that's why I tell them don't point your gun at me. It takes a week off my life, and pretty much wrecks their day (nothing personal)
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#18
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I bought a cz75sp-01 because I wanted to get into comp shooting.
I shoot at USI in concord. Anyone willing to take me under their wing and show me the ropes?
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Colt 6920 AR 15 Glock 19 Kimber Eclipse pro CZ 75 sp-01 tactical |
#19
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both also runs some handgun classes. if you are looking for more classes, both San Jose and Sac provide many options. |
#22
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I took the March class. An hour or so in class then live fire shooting drills. You will get your USI action pistol card after your first match. It is important not to DQ on your first match or else you have to retake the class all over.
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#24
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However, it is an orientation to shooting on the action range and an intro to competition not a training class. Now if you are considering costs, I may have to bring up Highlander51's 'clever' comment from SISIG's other thread. Training or Competition will be costly. Proficiency with firearms will be costly. I'm not quite sure what the comparison is here. Ideally and realistically you should do both to be proficient. If you are short on cash, I actually think competition is slightly cheaper if you go infrequently. You shoot and can learn from the other competitors. If you are short on time like I am usually, I think training might be a better option if you are face with an either/or dilemma. You can reinforce what you learn from both training and competition with dedicated dry-fire practice at home.
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"When you get the (men) to the range, you just get the men. But when you bring the (women) to the range, you get the (whole family). And that's what's going to save our 2nd Amendment."--Dianna Liedorff "Since self-preservation is the 1st law of nature, we assert the...right to self-defense. The Constitution...clearly affirms the right of every American...to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution." --Malcolm X |
#25
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My progression has been like this: .Have my gear ready and have enough ammo for the rest of the year's class/training .Took Basic Pistol Course (NRA) .Range time when I can to practice the fundamentals and my shot process .This July I'm taking a weekend class with GRAY OPS in Sacramento .Read as much as I can .Dry Fire/Drill at home( this one really help me a lot and notice the difference when i get to the range. I'm aware of any associated cost with a lifelong learning and I'm okay with that. That is why I ask questions rather than going blind and be tainted with a little knowledge and be lost. Then after some honest assessment and feedback from experienced folks then will take the next level. Then I will compete and be prepared to be HUMBLED and SPANKED!+ |
#27
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So my pattern is: Winter: Indoor Bullseye (.22) Spring: A class or two Late Spring - Fall: Competition Of course, a friend started running Ruger matches at his range recently, so those are getting thrown in as some cheap fun, but getting more expensive as we try out each other's .22's and find something new we don't have (GSG 1911 .22 is next on my list after cleaning up a round with a borrowed one yesterday!) |
#28
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After your training course(s) compete. Before competing however, know the rules of each shooting game you choose.
What's okay in USPSA is not okay in IDPA. personally if you want to shoot a game that prepares you somewhat for real world start with IDPA. You'll compete against others with simular equipment and skill level...not against the Masters or Pros. Same can be said about USPSA, but I think you'll feel more comfortable with folks shooting guns and having equipment like yours. Shooting after a Master or Grandmaster with an Open Class gun in a stage can be pretty intimidating and trying to shoot as fast as they do is an invitation to failure. Training is a journey not a destination. Learn from as many sources as you can. Weed out what works for you and disregard what doesn't. The more "trigger time" the better.
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Larry Renner Plus (+) P Proficiency LLC NRA and CA. P.O.S.T certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Tactical Instructor. You never rise to the occassion, you only sink to your lowest level of training" Unknown. Last edited by MossbergMan; 03-31-2013 at 12:08 PM.. |
#29
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You are on your way to a lifetime endeavor sir!
Study up and research the history of IPSC, (USPSA in the USA) who started it, why it became to light. I agree, it has changed over the years, but you are an individual, any information is good, you will take what is useful. To me, it's the brainchild of defensive shooting. Think acquiring skills from anyone and use it to your needs. I've shared that Shooting is like fighting/martial art. You train and practice and you compete to apply your skills. USPSA/IDPA is the closest thing to "sparring" we honest law abiding American have. Welcome! |
#31
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I agree. Stages are limited to fewer total max. rounds (18), and less movement (no more than 15 yards). But IDPA is an interesting sport even after you become a more-experienced competitor. It just has a different vibe than USPSA.
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My friends and family disavow all knowledge of my existence, let alone my opinions. |
#33
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Did I meet any other CGers other than Tumbleweed.13 at DAP today on 4/6?
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2 HANDGUNS STOLEN! 1 RECOVERED READ HERE Chickens Want to get into Ham Radio? Click here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=202581 |
#34
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Nice meeting you today. Had a good time in the class. I will be shooting in the USPSA match tomorrow at Richmond.
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#35
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When I compete, I purposely work
to remain tactically correct, even though it adds time on the clock.
Also, paintball is great for skills. It will definitely teach you to snap shoot, move fast, stay tight to cover, and shoot angles. If you are slow or loose in paintball you get punished.
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Currently: Still shooting plates and skiing Black Diamonds. NRA Instructor. Formerly: USMC '68-'72 - Platoon Honorman, Platoon High Rifle, Range High Rifle. F4 Phantom Flight Simulator Instructor. IPDA Match Director, IPDA SO, NRA Instructor. |
#36
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How did your richmond match go?
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2 HANDGUNS STOLEN! 1 RECOVERED READ HERE Chickens Want to get into Ham Radio? Click here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=202581 |
#37
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It was fun. They had some really tough stages setup. I shot ok in some and really bad in others but NO DQ so as far as I am concerned it went well. Not sure if I will be at USI on the 14th yet or not, but there is a good chance I will be back at Richmond on the 21st. Here is the video from the match.
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#38
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#39
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Richmond tomorrow, rain or shine. Al
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Various 1911s. Some revolvers. Some rifles. Back to owning some of those "polymer" guns. They see me rollin' They hatin' |
#40
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Having Priorities.
Match shooting is no place to learn how to shoot safety or to improve your shooting fundamentals. Under match or stress induced conditions, at best you can expect to shoot up to your current level of experience.
You shoot a lot of matches to improve your match shooting skills. Your fundamentals are developed into your shooting skill-set on the square range without inducement of tricks or secrets or shortcuts of any kind. The key for SD shooting is to incorporate correct decision making combined with the execution of the apex of your entire shooting skill-set at any time. One day of flight school does not F-22 Raptor Pilot make. Last edited by hambam105; 04-07-2013 at 5:49 PM.. |
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