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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #241  
Old 01-08-2018, 9:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Dump1567 View Post
Here's what I posted a few days ago that covers some of these issues.

Hopefully forum members are reading it before registering or asking questions. It covers a lot of the questions and "incompletes" I've seen posted.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1414621

Reading that would have eased my pain somewhat, while I had been reading on this for quite some time while waiting to start the process I obviously missed a few posts from those who'd BTDT. After spending about 6 hours doing all the inputs I was pretty fried and started reading more last night (when I learned I was supposed to include something for me ).

By the time I got around to doing the inputs for my co-registrant (AKA: wifey) it only took my a little over an hour to do all her inputs, so that wasn't too bad. I still think it is stupid to have to re-enter every bit of information especially since it is tied to the inputs under the primary's CRIS number, one would think it would be much simpler for the co-registrant - open account, ensure info correct and link to a specific CRIS transaction, end of story.

Talking with a buddy, who did a registration and Friday and another on Saturday then comparing his CRIS Transaction numbers to mine, it appears there were almost 100,000 AW transactions per day. I'm sure many (possibly up to half) of those are co-registrant transactions though.
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  #242  
Old 01-08-2018, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MKT View Post
Reading that would have eased my pain somewhat, while I had been reading on this for quite some time while waiting to start the process I obviously missed a few posts from those who'd BTDT. After spending about 6 hours doing all the inputs I was pretty fried and started reading more last night (when I learned I was supposed to include something for me ).

By the time I got around to doing the inputs for my co-registrant (AKA: wifey) it only took my a little over an hour to do all her inputs, so that wasn't too bad. I still think it is stupid to have to re-enter every bit of information especially since it is tied to the inputs under the primary's CRIS number, one would think it would be much simpler for the co-registrant - open account, ensure info correct and link to a specific CRIS transaction, end of story.

Talking with a buddy, who did a registration and Friday and another on Saturday then comparing his CRIS Transaction numbers to mine, it appears there were almost 100,000 AW transactions per day. I'm sure many (possibly up to half) of those are co-registrant transactions though.
Yea, they've made it extremely difficult and time consuming. They'll go over budget for sure with all the make believe "incompletes" they send out. A complete waste of our tax dollar.
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  #243  
Old 01-08-2018, 1:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MKT View Post
Talking with a buddy, who did a registration and Friday and another on Saturday then comparing his CRIS Transaction numbers to mine, it appears there were almost 100,000 AW transactions per day. I'm sure many (possibly up to half) of those are co-registrant transactions though.
There is no way there are 100k AW transactions per day.

I have three I submitted at once and the CRIS numbers increment by 3.

Anyone else who submitted multiples see the same thing?
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  #244  
Old 01-08-2018, 1:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
There is no way there are 100k AW transactions per day.

I have three I submitted at once and the CRIS numbers increment by 3.

Anyone else who submitted multiples see the same thing?
I believe any report done in the CRIS will create a new CRIS record number. So the number increase could mean other reports being created other than AW transactions, firearm ownership, new resident, C&R, etc.
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  #245  
Old 01-08-2018, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 View Post
I believe any report done in the CRIS will create a new CRIS record number. So the number increase could mean other reports being created other than AW transactions, firearm ownership, new resident, C&R, etc.
Except for the fact that C&Rs I have purchased out of State and then entered in the system have all started with 44444, and my Vol Reg 80% also started with a 44444 but all of the AW registration I did began with 22222.

My first entry yesterday had a CRIS of 222220084815XXX. My buddy's from Saturday was 2222200847XXXXX and his entry from Friday was 2222200846XXXXX. Climbing via consecutive numbers that sure looks like about 100K entries per day. My individual entries yesterday all seemed to increase by about 4 for each submission.

Of course I have no idea what number the transactions started at for this round of AW Registration, it may have picked up where the last round stopped.
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  #246  
Old 01-08-2018, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MKT View Post
Except for the fact that C&Rs I have purchased out of State and then entered in the system have all started with 44444, and my Vol Reg 80% also started with a 44444 but all of the AW registration I did began with 22222.

My first entry yesterday had a CRIS of 222220084815XXX. My buddy's from Saturday was 2222200847XXXXX and his entry from Friday was 2222200846XXXXX. Climbing via consecutive numbers that sure looks like about 100K entries per day. My individual entries yesterday all seemed to increase by about 4 for each submission.

Of course I have no idea what number the transactions started at for this round of AW Registration, it may have picked up where the last round stopped.
If true, then it would be interesting if those who registered earlier can provide their CRIS record number, The one staring with 22222. This would give us some idea how many AW has been registered.
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  #247  
Old 01-08-2018, 5:25 PM
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I believe they increment during the day 1 for 1, but there is a random large jump from one day to the next. This started a few months ago when people first started using the numbers as a means of estimating thew number of new registered AWs
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  #248  
Old 01-08-2018, 5:30 PM
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I applied for a joint registration with my son as secondary. I received my registration notification so that part is fine. I noted, however, that my son's name is nowhere on the notification. How is he able to prove that he is a co-registrant? Has anyone received additional notification that confirms co-registrant status?

Thanks,

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  #249  
Old 01-08-2018, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Rasyad View Post
I applied for a joint registration with my son as secondary. I received my registration notification so that part is fine. I noted, however, that my son's name is nowhere on the notification. How is he able to prove that he is a co-registrant? Has anyone received additional notification that confirms co-registrant status?

Thanks,

Rasyad
Did you do a separate registration for him? I think he has to do the exact same process you went through. And than I would assume he'd get his own approval letter?
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  #250  
Old 01-08-2018, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Dump1567 View Post
Did you do a separate registration for him? I think he has to do the exact same process you went through. And than I would assume he'd get his own approval letter?
I called the help line on this question and was told explicitly that only the primary registrant should make an application, that no additional action was required. On my application I added my son's name and personal data, and proof of residency as required. My assumption is that the joint registration is approved. I will call tomorrow to see what documentation I can give to my son when he has the weapon on his own.

Rasyad
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  #251  
Old 01-08-2018, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Rasyad View Post
I called the help line on this question and was told explicitly that only the primary registrant should make an application, that no additional action was required. On my application I added my son's name and personal data, and proof of residency as required. My assumption is that the joint registration is approved. I will call tomorrow to see what documentation I can give to my son when he has the weapon on his own.

Rasyad
Don't believe everything that you are told on the phone.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/regagunfaqs#17b

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17. Can I joint-register a firearm that is affected by AB 1135/SB 880?

Yes. Pursuant to Penal Code section 30955, the option for joint registration is authorized. The registration fee is $15 for each transaction (for each person). There is a $15 fee for each joint registrant.
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  #252  
Old 01-08-2018, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Rasyad View Post
I called the help line on this question and was told explicitly that only the primary registrant should make an application, that no additional action was required. On my application I added my son's name and personal data, and proof of residency as required. My assumption is that the joint registration is approved. I will call tomorrow to see what documentation I can give to my son when he has the weapon on his own.

Rasyad
Ask the same question, enjoy a different answer. Sometimes, I feel like DMV is not that bad, really....
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  #253  
Old 01-09-2018, 8:08 AM
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
Don't believe everything that you are told on the phone.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/regagunfaqs#17b
Great, more confusion by DOJ.

PC30955 -

The department's registration procedures shall provide the option of joint registration for any assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle owned by family members residing in the same household.

CCR 5474.1:

(a) If a firearm will be jointly registered, one family member must be identified as the primary registrant. The name and relationship of each joint registrant must be provided. Joint registrants must reside in the same household and share the same address.

(b) All joint registrants must be 18 years of age by June 30, 2018. Joint registrations are only authorized for the following family relationships:

blah, blah

c) Proof of address for each joint registrant shall be provided at the time of electronic submission. Acceptable forms of proof of address are as follows:

blah, blah

Note: Authority cited: Section 30900, Penal Code. Reference: Sections 30515, 30900 and 30955, Penal Code.

Nowhere does it mention a separate $15 payment for each registrant. And the CRIS does not provide any option to include a separate payment for each registrant. Since only one primary registrant per family per AW, how will that work in the CRIS?

Hope DOJ can clear this up.
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  #254  
Old 01-09-2018, 8:38 AM
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Notice it says PRIMARY registrant? That means a secondary registrant. Both must register. If both register then there are two fees.
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  #255  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
Notice it says PRIMARY registrant? That means a secondary registrant. Both must register. If both register then there are two fees.
Emailed/Called DOJ and got an answer. So now it is 2 out of 3.

Yes, ALL registrant needs to create a separate CRIS account and separately register the same AW. (so if you have 1000 AW, then re-do the same 1000 for every joint registant with pictures and everything) Except at the CRIS question about being the primary, the answer would be NO and a new input will be needed to link to the primary register's CRIS number for the firearm.

As Kemasa indicated, then it can charge you a 2nd $15 fee

Probably better to wait till the letter arrives to confirm the registration before having the 2nd registrant submit the forms. Otherwise, if there are any question on the firearm features, it will be duplicated for every registant. Wow, government at its best to duplicate, multiple reducant works
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  #256  
Old 01-09-2018, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 View Post
Emailed/Called DOJ and got an answer. So now it is 2 out of 3.

Yes, ALL registrant needs to create a separate CRIS account and separately register the same AW. (so if you have 1000 AW, then re-do the same 1000 for every joint registant with pictures and everything) Except at the CRIS question about being the primary, the answer would be NO and a new input will be needed to link to the primary register's CRIS number for the firearm.

As Kemasa indicated, then it can charge you a 2nd $15 fee

Probably better to wait till the letter arrives to confirm the registration before having the 2nd registrant submit the forms. Otherwise, if there are any question on the firearm features, it will be duplicated for every registant. Wow, government at its best to duplicate, multiple reducant works
And that is exactly what I don't understand...all of the info has been entered under the primary registrant's CRIS, you link the secondary registrant to that CRIS, why should all of the info need to be reentered? I could care less about the secondary's $15 registration fee but the having to reenter every bit of firearm info is absolutely unnecessary and redundant.

Now, yesterday I was somewhat pleased they were already looking into my submissions and kicking back for corrections. They managed to go through all but the first entry (it'll need the same correction) and seemed to have stopped. No further messages from bofcris@ about #1 and they haven't started looking into the wife's submissions yet either and hers started only CRIS transaction higher that my last transaction. With the rain today I am hanging out, patiently, in front of the computer waiting for emails to start rolling in.

I think it'll be a long day.
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  #257  
Old 01-09-2018, 12:43 PM
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I am attempting a joint reg with my wife on two of our rifles. We both had to complete the online reg forms which was no big deal. Now the interesting part is my half was approved a month ago and I have received my "AW paper work". Both of her applications were just yesterday kicked back for NOT having "all the required photos of the rifles" thats just BS because the photos uploaded are the exact ones I uploaded 15 minutes before while completing my reg forms for the same rifles. Also they were taken in the same manner/format/size/clarity as my other recently approved rifles. Contacted DOJ this morning, and well as expected got no intelligent answer to my inquiry about this.

Now this is not the first "kick back" I have delete with, but the prior ones were specific as to what was wrong and what was needed, not so this time. Which leads me to believe the powers at be really do not want us to joint reg our rifles so endeavor make issue so vague they are next to impossible to correct.
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  #258  
Old 01-09-2018, 3:02 PM
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Confirming what others have said.... Just got off the phone with the DOJ and was told (this time) that my son needs to complete his own application, pay his own $15, and reference my CRIS number on his application so they will know that both applications are linked to the same firearm. Of course all the other fields like serial number, features, photos, proof of residence will have to match so I am not taking bets on getting through this on first pass.

Rasyad
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  #259  
Old 01-09-2018, 8:54 PM
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This is strange. I received my "notify by mail" email for 2 rifles and I co-registered my wife on both of them. I absolutely did not create another CRIS account for her. I submitted, iirc, our vehicle registration to show joint address and her ID. I spoke with them a couple days ago to check on my progress and they said everything was in order, I just needed to wait for my paperwork in the mail. I'll have to keep an eye out for this before the time runs out.

Last edited by Nvidkiller; 01-09-2018 at 9:01 PM..
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  #260  
Old 01-09-2018, 9:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Nvidkiller View Post
This is strange. I received my "notify by mail" email for 2 rifles and I co-registered my wife on both of them. I absolutely did not create another CRIS account for her. I submitted, iirc, our vehicle registration to show joint address and her ID. I spoke with them a couple days ago to check on my progress and they said everything was in order, I just needed to wait for my paperwork in the mail. I'll have to keep an eye out for this before the time runs out.
I had a problem where I forgot my CFARS login. When I put in my email address, it said it could not find it. I just set up another account, same info, but a different email and it all went through ok.

Their system is bizarre.
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  #261  
Old 01-10-2018, 9:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Nvidkiller View Post
This is strange. I received my "notify by mail" email for 2 rifles and I co-registered my wife on both of them. I absolutely did not create another CRIS account for her. I submitted, iirc, our vehicle registration to show joint address and her ID. I spoke with them a couple days ago to check on my progress and they said everything was in order, I just needed to wait for my paperwork in the mail. I'll have to keep an eye out for this before the time runs out.
It is what I asked with DOJ staff. She even had to put me on hold to clarify it with someone else. She was pleasant, nice, and wanted to help.

You had just registered the rifle to you and only indicated that others may also be on the registration. However, for your wife to be "officially" registered to the rifle, she would have to create her own CRIS account and "re-register" everything including upload all the pictures and show proof of common residency. However, not being the "primary" registrant, she will need to reference your CRIS number for every rifle you registered so she will be linked back to you and the rifle (what the, huh, really? - at this point I just laughed and DOJ lady chucked too understanding how silly it is)

I then asked if DOJ had plans to change this process. She indicated she had not gotten any direction from above that any of this will change.

Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever other than to make the registration more painful. Guess they worry that allowing family to co-register, the rifle may stay in CA for more than one generation. So let's make it hard, so people will screw up based on technicality, so when the primary passes on, the co-registrant will end up with nothing. Type in one wrong digit for the CRIS number, so sorry....... Wha ha, ha... we are so clever.
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  #262  
Old 01-10-2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
I had a problem where I forgot my CFARS login. When I put in my email address, it said it could not find it. I just set up another account, same info, but a different email and it all went through ok.

Their system is bizarre.
Perhaps your original account was deleted due to prolonged inactivity? I know passwords eventually expire in CFARS after a period of time. I wonder if they eventually remove inactive accounts after a bit more time?
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  #263  
Old 01-10-2018, 6:20 PM
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Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 View Post
It is what I asked with DOJ staff. She even had to put me on hold to clarify it with someone else. She was pleasant, nice, and wanted to help.

You had just registered the rifle to you and only indicated that others may also be on the registration. However, for your wife to be "officially" registered to the rifle, she would have to create her own CRIS account and "re-register" everything including upload all the pictures and show proof of common residency. However, not being the "primary" registrant, she will need to reference your CRIS number for every rifle you registered so she will be linked back to you and the rifle (what the, huh, really? - at this point I just laughed and DOJ lady chucked too understanding how silly it is)

I then asked if DOJ had plans to change this process. She indicated she had not gotten any direction from above that any of this will change.

Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever other than to make the registration more painful. Guess they worry that allowing family to co-register, the rifle may stay in CA for more than one generation. So let's make it hard, so people will screw up based on technicality, so when the primary passes on, the co-registrant will end up with nothing. Type in one wrong digit for the CRIS number, so sorry....... Wha ha, ha... we are so clever.
You are the 1% of registrants that is going to figure this out. That's sad, I thought I was completely finished in regards to my registration. This is going to completely screw a lot of people
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  #264  
Old 01-10-2018, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Nvidkiller View Post
You are the 1% of registrants that is going to figure this out. That's sad, I thought I was completely finished in regards to my registration. This is going to completely screw a lot of people
The point is highlighted in the calguns AW registration guide (link in my sig), but unfortunately your 1% estimate is probably accurate, considering the small audience of calguns readers relative to the population of gun owners in CA. The CRIS website certainly doesn't make any effort to clarify it for anyone.
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  #265  
Old 01-10-2018, 8:50 PM
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Hopefully - the attorneys can use all of these reports in the courtroom as this insanity gets a dose of sunshine - the best disinfectant ;-)

Last edited by @miller; 01-10-2018 at 8:50 PM.. Reason: misspelling
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  #266  
Old 01-10-2018, 8:53 PM
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I think we need to work a good and very exhaustive list of PRA requests to keep them as busy as they have kept us
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Old 01-11-2018, 7:48 AM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
The point is highlighted in the calguns AW registration guide (link in my sig), but unfortunately your 1% estimate is probably accurate, considering the small audience of calguns readers relative to the population of gun owners in CA. The CRIS website certainly doesn't make any effort to clarify it for anyone.
Yup, and being a member here following this, I almost completely missed this as well!

The CRIS input forms make it feel like it is all that is required to co-register someone, you input their name, include a photo of co-residency, submit.
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  #268  
Old 01-11-2018, 7:55 AM
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Originally Posted by onelonehorseman View Post
Perhaps your original account was deleted due to prolonged inactivity? I know passwords eventually expire in CFARS after a period of time. I wonder if they eventually remove inactive accounts after a bit more time?
I am hoping that is it, don't want it to be some kind of problem. I feel like anything, absolutely anything, is a problem to these people.
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  #269  
Old 01-11-2018, 8:22 AM
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I had kind of a similar issue.
I forgot my PW, but their forgot PW process doesn't seem to work.
Had to make a new account
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  #270  
Old 01-16-2018, 4:24 PM
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I got this incomplete notice late last week Re: joint registration proof of residency:

"Thank you for submitting your application. The documentation you provided is not an acceptable form of proof of address. Also, proof of address must be provided for each joint registrant. Please refer to California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5474.1(c) for more information: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/regs/text-adopted-regulations-bullet-button.pdf"

I had submitted my CCW for the Proof of Residency image.

CCW is clearly listed as the first acceptable proof of registration [section 5474.1(c)(1)].

Are they looking for me to submit both my proof of residency and my wife's proof of residency all in the same image under my application?

I had submitted MY proof of residence under my application as the primary registrant, then my wife submitted HER proof of residence under her application as the secondary registration, with hers linked to my CRIS number as the secondary registrant. Neither of us included the OTHER SPOUSE'S proof of residency on their respective applications which would seem kind of silly since we both have to file an application and there is only one image slot for "proof of residency" for each weapon...

Very confusing, please advise.
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Old 01-16-2018, 4:40 PM
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Are they looking for me to submit both my proof of residency and my wife's proof of residency all in the same image under my application?
They want both proofs for your application. Don't know if they want both for her app., but it wouldn't hurt to submit it.
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Old 01-16-2018, 6:39 PM
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Don't register! Resist
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Old 01-16-2018, 7:19 PM
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Don't register! Resist
And go featureless? How is that resisting?

Ya! more dead horse!
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Old 01-16-2018, 8:13 PM
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Diversification is the best bet. And the vast majority of us are already on some CA list.

Let’s get back on topic please... thank you previous posters who answered, DOJ confirmed via “report an issue” feature as well.

Kind of silly I need to submit both proofs of residency on both applications rather than submit mine on my apps and my wife’s on hers... but the joint registration process seems to be just Jerry rigged onto existing CFARS system haphazardly.
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Old 01-16-2018, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by thorium View Post
Diversification is the best bet. And the vast majority of us are already on some CA list.

Let’s get back on topic please... thank you previous posters who answered, DOJ confirmed via “report an issue” feature as well.

Kind of silly I need to submit both proofs of residency on both applications rather than submit mine on my apps and my wife’s on hers... but the joint registration process seems to be just Jerry rigged onto existing CFARS system haphazardly.
It happened to me as well, except I included my wife’s DMV registeration. Now one would conclude that if my application address matches to my wife’s DMV doc, then it shows we both are in the same house. But, nope, need both persons address as proof in the same image
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Old 01-16-2018, 9:20 PM
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It happened to me as well, except I included my wife’s DMV registeration. Now one would conclude that if my application address matches to my wife’s DMV doc, then it shows we both are in the same house. But, nope, need both persons address as proof in the same image
I'm still confused. I sent in my wife's DMV registration only, this morning with my AW Registration. How do I send in MY DMV registration NOW? Or do I need to send in a utility bill with BOTH our names on it?
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Old 01-16-2018, 11:19 PM
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I'm still confused. I sent in my wife's DMV registration only, this morning with my AW Registration. How do I send in MY DMV registration NOW? Or do I need to send in a utility bill with BOTH our names on it?
When they kick it back for your missing proof of residence just add a scan of your proof under "Hunting License" and in the comments section state proof of residence for Your Name has been uploaded under "Hunting License".

At least that is how I did it.
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:57 AM
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I registered mine last week and got a receipt for payment how long does it usually take before they ok your submitted rifle ?

Do you get a second email besides the payment receipts saying it's fine and you'll be receiving a letter by mail ?
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Old 01-17-2018, 2:42 PM
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I registered mine last week and got a receipt for payment how long does it usually take before they ok your submitted rifle ?

Do you get a second email besides the payment receipts saying it's fine and you'll be receiving a letter by mail ?
All I've received have been the kick backs for missing proof of residence for me. I received the first batch on the first working day after submitting, then received the last kick back about working 5 days later (all submitted on the same day). It has been over a week now since the last one has bene resubmitted and I have received nothing further from CFARS.

A buddy submitted just before I did, received kick backs for correction and resubmitted. He began receiving the "you'll be notified by mail" emails this week.
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Old 01-17-2018, 3:17 PM
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Thanks for the information, so should be a week or so after submitting then you get a 2nd email if everything is good saying you'll be notified by mail.

Regards B
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