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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 09-20-2017, 1:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
I believe they let you update info on one without having to pay again


Yes, but they are extracting several pounds of inconvenience.


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  #82  
Old 09-20-2017, 1:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mkohl View Post
I sincerely hope the courts rip DOJ a new one. Someone needs to slap them down to reality. It's a depressing state of affairs. There is no rule of law, just the rule of what the overlord says it is. Sadly this is California so minimal hope but I'll keep fighting to respect the rule of law!
Not gonna happen unless we go all the way to the Supreme Court.

This is what happens when Democrats take ownership of a state. Tyranny and corruption.
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  #83  
Old 09-20-2017, 2:28 PM
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It would sure be nice if some registrations would get approved already... we're kind of getting a feel for what DOJ won't accept, but at this point we still have no idea what they WILL accept (if anything).

Anyways, thanks for posting this thread, I've updated the AW registration guide accordingly, given this new information about the acquisition date.
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  #84  
Old 09-21-2017, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by nick View Post
So, if they have the correct dates, why can't they substitute them?


Because DOJ is lazy and wants to make this process as inconvenient as possible. All those rejection letters are most likely computer generated. That's why they only except online apps to minimize any manual labor.


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  #85  
Old 09-21-2017, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
Because DOJ is lazy and wants to make this process as inconvenient as possible. All those rejection letters are most likely computer generated. That's why they only except online apps to minimize any manual labor.
I don't think that the CA DOJ is lazy. They seem to do a lot to make things as hard as possible. If they were lazy, it would be easier.
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  #86  
Old 09-21-2017, 11:09 AM
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I don't think that the CA DOJ is lazy. They seem to do a lot to make things as hard as possible. If they were lazy, it would be easier.


You're right, calling the DOJ lazy is an insult to lazy people.


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  #87  
Old 09-21-2017, 11:27 AM
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I don't think that the CA DOJ is lazy. They seem to do a lot to make things as hard as possible. If they were lazy, it would be easier.
They have a hidden agenda, and some legitimate constraints. You thought only gun owners bend the law.
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  #88  
Old 09-21-2017, 11:33 AM
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They have a hidden agenda, and some legitimate constraints. You thought only gun owners bend the law.
Hidden agenda? It does not seem so hidden to me.

They bend the law, ignore the law and make up laws and they get away with it because what can the peons do about it?
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  #89  
Old 09-21-2017, 11:47 AM
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Hidden agenda? It does not seem so hidden to me.

They bend the law, ignore the law and make up laws and they get away with it because what can the peons do about it?
If it isn't crystal clear, then you haven't found the hidden agenda.
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  #90  
Old 09-21-2017, 11:51 AM
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If it isn't crystal clear, then you haven't found the hidden agenda.
It seems clear to me.

Then again, it is interesting since if they accomplished their goal, then many would be out of work.
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  #91  
Old 09-21-2017, 12:03 PM
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Reassigned
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  #92  
Old 09-21-2017, 7:00 PM
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I've had a kickback for claiming features that were not reflected in my photos. I claimed a forward pistol grip, a thumb hole stock and a flash suppressor (whatever), but my rifle was a BB with Pistol grip. Ping, shot back. I guess we can't change configuration at all, after registration. Interesting.
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  #93  
Old 09-21-2017, 7:03 PM
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I've had a kickback for claiming features that were not reflected in my photos. I claimed a forward pistol grip, a thumb hole stock and a flash suppressor (whatever), but my rifle was a BB with Pistol grip. Ping, shot back. I guess we can't change configuration at all, after registration. Interesting.
Lol. Thatís very interesting indeed.
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  #94  
Old 09-21-2017, 7:11 PM
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I've had a kickback for claiming features that were not reflected in my photos. I claimed a forward pistol grip, a thumb hole stock and a flash suppressor (whatever), but my rifle was a BB with Pistol grip. Ping, shot back. I guess we can't change configuration at all, after registration. Interesting.


At least you know a DOJ human being (which is an insult other human beings) is actually looking at the pics. The regs only post registration restriction is changing of the Mag release device (BB). So just have one set of additional "evil features" and attach them to every rifle you submit.


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  #95  
Old 09-21-2017, 8:23 PM
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Has anyone been approved?
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  #96  
Old 09-21-2017, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rhunter View Post
I've had a kickback for claiming features that were not reflected in my photos. I claimed a forward pistol grip, a thumb hole stock and a flash suppressor (whatever), but my rifle was a BB with Pistol grip. Ping, shot back. I guess we can't change configuration at all, after registration. Interesting.
So, you described a rifle that was different than the picture you submitted, it got rejected, and the conclusion you've drawn is that we can't change configurations following registration? Brilliant!

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  #97  
Old 09-21-2017, 8:47 PM
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For heaven's sake... don't register. Either go featureless or install an ARmaglock. If you're extra paranoid, use the maglock with a fixed mag solution like the Franklin DMS. Avoid the registration insanity!
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  #98  
Old 09-21-2017, 8:58 PM
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Hey. Gotta test the boundaries. Within the law. Did I complain? No. Take your head slap elsewhere. You want to hear me complain? Ask me how my CFARS account setup was 'silky smooth'. Can I help you?

Last edited by rhunter; 09-21-2017 at 9:13 PM..
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  #99  
Old 09-21-2017, 9:15 PM
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For heaven's sake... don't register. Either go featureless or install an ARmaglock. If you're extra paranoid, use the maglock with a fixed mag solution like the Franklin DMS. Avoid the registration insanity!
Mine is an AK. My AR's are now FAB 10 or FAB 10 style. I have 2 registered, a 50BMG and my new salty rifle (maybe).
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  #100  
Old 09-21-2017, 9:37 PM
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Hey. Gotta test the boundaries. Within the law. Did I complain? No. Take your head slap elsewhere. You want to hear me complain? Ask me how my CFARS account setup was 'silky smooth'. Can I help you?
I agree, and thank you for doing so. What was the muzzle device photographed?

I wonder if different configurations could be submitted with the left and right side photos?
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  #101  
Old 09-21-2017, 9:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
They know exactly what they are doing. All of this idiocy is designed specifically to make it as hard as possible and dissuade as many as possible from registering. Why? Because the last thing they want is more AW in CA, and the registration is nothing more than a thing they HAVE TO DO in order to make a ban legal.

Nothing should surprise you when you look at it through this simple lens. Always do what your enemy does not want you to do, it's the first lesson of war. The Anti's know the registry is a safe haven and much more difficult to attack, and they know their crap regulations will eventually be torn to shreds in court. So what else is there left for them to do but make it impossible to register?
And once you are in it, they don't want you off it. I think we are all on the same page now.
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  #102  
Old 09-21-2017, 10:16 PM
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Funny you ask. I took off the slant break to take the photo. I may have to resubmit. Is s slant break s flash hider? Can I get a witness?
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  #103  
Old 09-21-2017, 10:38 PM
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I honestly feel like the DOJ has 1 or 2 people assigned to approve these registrations and if they took it seriously they would hire more but I doubt they will.

I guess if you really have your heart set on registration you need to do it asap to give a buffer for all these tricks they may pull.

My prediction is that successful registrations will take 6 months.
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  #104  
Old 09-21-2017, 10:42 PM
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I honestly feel like the DOJ has 1 or 2 people assigned to approve these registrations and if they took it seriously they would hire more but I doubt they will.

I guess if you really have your heart set on registration you need to do it asap to give a buffer for all these tricks they may pull.

My prediction is that successful registrations will take 6 months.
I donít think so because none have been approved yet.

My guess is that All applications that are ready to be approved wonít get approved until DOJ figures out how to manage the list. Once they figure that out, mass approvals.
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  #105  
Old 09-21-2017, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
They know exactly what they are doing. All of this idiocy is designed specifically to make it as hard as possible and dissuade as many as possible from registering. Why? Because the last thing they want is more AW in CA, and the registration is nothing more than a thing they HAVE TO DO in order to make a ban legal.

Nothing should surprise you when you look at it through this simple lens. Always do what your enemy does not want you to do, it's the first lesson of war. The Anti's know the registry is a safe haven and much more difficult to attack, and they know their crap regulations will eventually be torn to shreds in court. So what else is there left for them to do but make it impossible to register?
and own up to individual evil features now so you can't add more after registration.
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  #106  
Old 09-22-2017, 2:55 AM
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Most of you sound unaware the NRA/CRPA has a lawsuit challenging this whole burdensome registration process. People of average intelligence will not be able to successfully register despite their best efforts (and now there is accumulating proof), disenfranchising a large class of citizens and systematically turning them into felons. No different than literacy tests, etc. for voting back in the day designed to systemically disenfranchise large classes of citizens. This is more than a 2A issue.

NRA/CRPA was successful in getting the injunction on the magazines while it proceeds through appeals as we speak. That was more than a 2A issue. It was an issue of legislation that systemically turned hundreds of thousands into criminals. Stay tuned.
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  #107  
Old 09-22-2017, 8:14 AM
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CAL DOJ will screw this process over until the registration period has ended. Then you are all stuck with illegal weapons.

Does anyone think this would have ever worked?
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  #108  
Old 09-22-2017, 9:50 AM
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CAL DOJ will screw this process over until the registration period has ended. Then you are all stuck with illegal weapons.

Does anyone think this would have ever worked?
isn't this effectively entrapment? Hmmm....
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  #109  
Old 09-22-2017, 10:13 AM
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isn't this effectively entrapment? Hmmm....
Sure seems like it to me...

And most of us have always, in fact, predicted this as a possibility. I still am not ruling it out as a possibility.

In fact, I'm almost hopeful that's exactly how it plays out.

Still, I'm not just assuming that's how it will play out. I do plan to register still, in case this system does end up working. If it doesn't, then well, I'll be in the same situation as everyone else.
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  #110  
Old 09-22-2017, 10:56 AM
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Press Check's statement on removing extra features before taking pictures makes a lot of sense.

These regulations are so vague and subject to endless interpretation that they couldn't pass judicial review if submitted to any higher court for constitutional review in there present state of confusion. Even most liberal leaning judges find precise language important!

That said, the damage to the rights of those that submit their firearms for registration under this registration system as it now stands will be irreparably harmed even if the courts rule against the State of California after the fact. The only thing the government doesn't seem to lose is information gathered on it's citizens. This will be litigated for years to come and hopefully go to the Supreme Court.

Information on long gun purchases before 2014 was supposed to be deleted. Check your gun purchase receipts to see it your long gun was purchased before 2014. If it was and they claim to know your purchase date AND what you purchased (other than a handgun) then not only have they broken the law by not deleting the the D.R.O.S. purchase of a long gun, they also have gathered data on your rifle that wasn't even submitted on the D.R.O.S. form prior to 2014 in the first place! Hummmm.

As a side note, it is important and has always been important to have saved purchase receipts (and selling receipt info for that matter) when buying a firearm from a dealer or, even more importantly, from an individual. As far as private party receipts are concerned, one can never be sure if you purchased a firearm that was stolen or used in a crime before you take possession of it. Keep your receipts people. You wouldn't throw away the pink slips to your motorcycles, cars, trucks, boats, airplanes or any other vehicles would ya?

I, for one, urge people to reconfigure their newly classified AW into a legally configured featureless rifle for the time being rather than going through the registration process as it now stands. Remember, if you register it and later decide to move out of state. you can almost be assured that California will keep your info and will share it with the federal govt. if requested. California bends over backward for illegal immigrants, not American citizens or legal permanent residents.
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  #111  
Old 09-22-2017, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by sirdutch View Post

As a side note, it is important and has always been important to have saved purchase receipts (and selling receipt info for that matter) when buying a firearm from a dealer or, even more importantly, from an individual. As far as private party receipts are concerned, one can never be sure if you purchased a firearm that was stolen or used in a crime before you take possession of it. Keep your receipts people. You wouldn't throw away the pink slips to your motorcycles, cars, trucks, boats, airplanes or any other vehicles would ya?
I don't know about keeping all receipts, it's sporadic for me over the course of 20 years of buying guns. Some I kept, others I tossed (usually by mistake). The law doesn't require us to keep receipts, and I doubt any criminal investigation is going to be satiated by some random piece of paper anyone could forge in 5 seconds. What's better is to keep an electronic ledger of all transactions, recalling when and where you bought it. Nothing legally magical about a receipt. But that is not legally required either.

A receipt is not like a pink slip or other official document required to be kept by law. There is no official document to show firearm ownership other than the AFS report purchasable from DOJ. That will show you what they think you have. Owning a firearm with no paperwork is totally legal in CA as long as it follows the laws and is a legal firearm and was legally obtained.
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  #112  
Old 09-22-2017, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
I don't know about keeping all receipts, it's sporadic for me over the course of 20 years of buying guns. Some I kept, others I tossed (usually by mistake). The law doesn't require us to keep receipts, and I doubt any criminal investigation is going to be satiated by some random piece of paper anyone could forge in 5 seconds. What's better is to keep an electronic ledger of all transactions, recalling when and where you bought it. Nothing legally magical about a receipt. But that is not legally required either.

A receipt is not like a pink slip or other official document required to be kept by law. There is no official document to show firearm ownership other than the AFS report purchasable from DOJ. That will show you what they think you have. Owning a firearm with no paperwork is totally legal in CA as long as it follows the laws and is a legal firearm and was legally obtained.

While I try to retain accurate personal records & receipts the AFS report is a good thing to have.
The AFS report I received was, much to my surprise, completely accurate. It's something I keep a copy of in all my gun cases and range bags. Given the current environment, I plan to get an update every year (even if I don't buy or sell anymore guns) just to insure it remains accurate and have an up to date record. Receipts are for the insurance company and gun history documentation when you decide to sell.


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  #113  
Old 09-22-2017, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
What's better is to keep an electronic ledger of all transactions, recalling when and where you bought it.
That's a good idea in general anyways, especially if you've got more than a few guns in your collection. It can come in handy for insurance purposes, reporting lost or stolen guns, etc.

But, being an itemized list of your gun collection and what you paid for them, you may want to exercise caution with letting your wife see it
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  #114  
Old 09-22-2017, 11:49 AM
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Can I ask exactly what PC the requiring of receipts was first appointed?
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  #115  
Old 09-22-2017, 11:57 AM
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Can I ask exactly what PC the requiring of receipts was first appointed?
Doesn't exist, nobody has ever been required to retain receipts.
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  #116  
Old 09-22-2017, 11:57 AM
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There is no PC stating that receipts must be kept
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  #117  
Old 09-22-2017, 12:02 PM
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So this is a Huge loophole for refusing registration by the CADOJ.

Well sir, there was no requirement to keep receipts, but we need them to process your submission. Sorry sir. Move, sell, destroy or become a paper felon.
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  #118  
Old 09-22-2017, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by nedro View Post
So this is a Huge loophole for refusing registration by the CADOJ.

Well sir, there was no requirement to keep receipts, but we need them to process your submission. Sorry sir. Move, sell, destroy or become a paper felon.
When DOJ said the purchase date was wrong, and requested the correct one, they provided a phone number to call if he doesn't know the date. We don't know what happens when you call the number, they might just say "the date we have on file is 7/1/2015, so use that."

And if they don't have the purchase date in their records (because it was before 2014), then they wouldn't (presumably) be accusing you of using the wrong date, since they wouldn't know.
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Last edited by cockedandglocked; 09-22-2017 at 12:09 PM..
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  #119  
Old 09-22-2017, 12:18 PM
nedro nedro is offline
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So,
Call number.
Press 7.
Press 3.
Talk to someone who simply tells you over and over again to contact the shop that you bought it from to get the date.
If shop is out of business?
Write the AW department to complain.
Is that loophole enough for you?
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  #120  
Old 09-22-2017, 12:45 PM
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Rusty_Shackleferd Rusty_Shackleferd is offline
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I just found out the shop i originally bought my lowers at has closed. I know that if an FFL closes, they are leagally bound to send their 4473s to the ATF to be catalogued and filed away for ~20 years, and then the records are supposedly destroyed. So riddle me this: if a rifle was bought on or before 1997, by law, there is no 4473 or DROS to reference for an acquisition date. In this case, what date do they reference?

Moreover, what date are they referencing if i brought a legal rifle into this state before 2014 and i didn't know i had to declare my rifle's existance to the DOJ? I'd be incriminating myself by trying to comply with the law?

How can either of the above scenarios hold up in court?

Disclaimer: all of my firearms have been bought and DROSed in CA. The 1997 scenario and self-incrimination scenario are hypothetical.

Last edited by Rusty_Shackleferd; 09-22-2017 at 12:51 PM.. Reason: Disclaimer added for the bolsheviks
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